Embracing Your Natural Hair

[Irresistible]

I didn't mean it that way at all.

MOST people use some sort of product during the grooming process. Especially type 4's. If you go naked, you probably wash/condition/detangle or whatever and that's also grooming.

but I was specifically talking about (finishing) product vs. non product grooming because that's the subject of this discussion

Neith dont you start banging your head too

 

[jamaraa]

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[jamaraa]

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[jamaraa]

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[jamaraa]

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[jennboo]

Nobody here is going raw...that's the funniest part of this convo. They are using shampoos, conditioners, leave ins, oils, etc... The funniest thing is that many of the naturals here have the most complex reggies and product lists.

If anyone truly was interested in going "raw", they'd not be here cuz the solution is right there.

Not trying to be snarky, i apologize in advance if it comes off as such, but can you read, like really read and not skim over, my last post please?

 

[jupitermoon]

Bolded: THIS. I see this all the time. THIS is what i'm talking about. IMO folks who do this arent accepting of their texture. In my head, im thinking, if you've got to apply half a jar of gel/creme, go by 1/8 sections of hair to comb, massage, pull, shape the gel through, let it set under a dryer and do this everytime you wash your hair bc you wouldnt be caught dead without some semblance of definition then, umm, you may have an issue with your natch texture, all im saying, lol.

If all you've got to do is throw some infusium and some shea butter on your hair and your curls are poppin', cool. Again, when y'all get something in your heads y'all run with it, but no one is saying that you have to go around without some glycerin and grease in your hair, lol. Just this pathological need to curlify with all this elbow grease is a bit odd to me, my opinion.

Jennboo, I completly agree with you here. This is what I meant when I mentioned how some people try to force their hair to do things that it just doesn't want to do then become upset and discouraged. It's not about using products versus going bare haired. I agree that most of us of African descent need some product at least for moisture. But when you dump an entire bucket of gel on your hair, and layer it with lots of mousse and hair spray just to get a few random coils and a little less frizz and won't accept the fact that your hair does not want to form uniform, silky, frizz free curls and become upset, then I think there's a problem.

Using myself as an example, I've accepted that my hair is coarse, tends to frizz around the edges, isn't silky, and does not form uniform curls. This doesn't upset me nor do I spend countless hours layering product after product into my hair and shingling like crazy to get my hair to be silky and form uniform curls---something that my hair just does not want to do.

This is what personally I consider embracing one's natural hair. It's about accepting how you hair grows naturally and even how it responds to certain hair styles. For example, everyone's straightened or relaxed hair is not going to "flow" and "blow in the wind".

I hate to say this, but I think many people waste lots of money searching for miracle products in an attempt to obtain their "dream hair". I was guilty of this too when I first went natural. I sometimes cringe at the posts where posters state that they've spent "x" amount of money on hair products and countlesss hours shingling and layering several different hair products into their hair in an attempt to get their hair to lie flat; yet, nothing seems to work.

i haven't read the thread in its entirety but I agree with jennboo's last post. Embracing natural texture as I see it, is being cool with it without always trying to make it look like another hair type, or obsessively avoiding your hair resembling its hair type. I personally don't see a problem with an occasional switch, to me that doesn't denote that that person doesn't fully embrace their natural hair texture.

I agree. It's only when someone insists on forcing their hair to look like someone else's, then becoming upset when their hair doesn't behave in the manner in which they want do I consider it a problem.

*walks out of thread while doing the moon walk*

 

[LunadeMiel]

Again I'm not seeing why there is all of this confusion. A person who freaks out and cries when he/she sees his/her hair without any products IMHO has not accpeted their natural hair. Going above and beyond to mask your natural texture is indicative of the same issue. I tell my friend (who is white with 2A hair ) that she is has some serious hair issues all of the time. She is one those people who refuse to let others see her hair in its "unmanipulated" state. No one is saying that you can't apply any products to your hair and if you do that you have problems.

 

[msa]

Sorry Jenn, but someone DID imply that acceptance was about "in the raw" sans product. It's upthread and I'm too lazy to dig it out, but it's there. However, the statement and it's implications was mentioned.

Implication is simply saying what one means w/o doing so outright...

I said before and I'll say it again. Acceptance of your naked natural hair is a part of accepting your natural hair in general. It is not the end all be all, it's just a part of it. A piece of the pie. I didn't say or imply any different in any of my posts.

 

[jennboo]

Jennboo, I completly agree with you here. This is what I meant when I mentioned how some people try to force their hair to do things that it just doesn't want to do then become upset and discouraged. It's not about using products versus going bare haired. I agree that most of us of African descent need some product at least for moisture. But when you dump an entire bucket of gel on your hair, and layer it with lots of mousse and hair spray just to get a few random coils and a little less frizz and won't accept the fact that your hair does not want to form uniform silky frizz free curls and become upset, then I think there's a problem.

Using myself as an example, I've accepted that my hair is coarse, tends to frizz around the edges, isn't silky, and does not form uniform curls. This doesn't upset me nor do I spend countless hours layering product after product into my hair and shingling like crazy to get my hair to be silky and form uniform curls---something that my hair just does not want to do.

This is what personally I consider embracing one's natural hair. It's about accepting how you hair grows naturally and even how it responds to certain hair styles. For example, everyone's straightened or relaxed hair is not going to "flow" and "blow in the wind".

I hate to say this, but I think many people waste lots of money searching for miracle products in an attempt to obtain their "dream hair". I was guilty of this too when I first went natural. I sometimes cringe at the posts where posters state that they've spent "x" amount of money on hair products and countlesss hours shingling and layering several different hair products into their hair in an attempt to get their hair to lie flat; yet, nothing seems to work.



I agree. It's only when someone insists on forcing their hair to look like someone else's, then becoming upset when their hair doesn't behave in the manner in which they want do I consider it a problem.

Thank ya for this entire post, Thank ya kindly!

 

[Irresistible]

why are you guys even concerning yourself with how ANOTHER person wants/chooses/decides or feels comfortable with THEIR hair

Thats a whole lot of projecting and being up in someone else's head going on

hypocrisy keeps rearing its head, one is saying 'why do you have problems with how I wear my hair' but over and over again state they have problems how another does THEIR hair

so much wasted energy. Dont know how ya'll do it

 

[Irresistible]

a problem? an issue?

for who? why make another's head of hair a problem or issue to/for YOU?

When you dont want someone to take issue with yours

no matter how you slice this

 

[Daughter]

Exactamundo!

 

[jennboo]

why are you guys even concerning yourself with how ANOTHER person wants/chooses/decides or feels comfortable with THEIR hair

Thats a whole lot of projecting and being up in someone else's head going on

hypocrisy keeps rearing its head, one is saying 'why do you have problems with how I wear my hair' but over and over again state they have problems how another does THEIR hair

so much wasted energy. Dont know how ya'll do it

You are "doin" it too. Why are you so concerned that we are concerned? lmao. I personally am enjoying reading and contributing to this thread.

 

[purplepeace79]

I do agree that chasing the curl is the newest thing and it has its own set of issues. But I think it is because of the unrealistic expectations many people have when they transition or get rid of the relaxer. They see people with other hairtypes and, not knowing their own after relaxing for so long, hope they end up with the same textures. Thats why acceptance of one's own hair is important. You can't keep comparing yourself to someone else when your hair isnt the same. All you will end up doing is becoming a product junkie chasing the curly high.

Acceptance, or the degree to which one accepts, isnt universal, I'm guessing. If this group is any indication, then there are varying ideas of acceptance.

I do agree that some folks have extensive regimens and use a massive amount of products all for the sake of looking curly, but hey, that's on them. Some people have it naturally, others dont. I don't spend too much time thinking about others.

But the idea that the curl is "better" is pretty pervasive and that's troubling. It creates a hierarchy among naturals based on texture and aesthetic and we end up at square one again. So with all of these women transitioning and chopping and such, I have to wonder if we will enter a new realm of comparing "good" natural vs "bad" natural.

There will always be an "other" and people will always want what they don't have.

 

[msa]

why are you guys even concerning yourself with how ANOTHER person wants/chooses/decides or feels comfortable with THEIR hair

Thats a whole lot of projecting and being up in someone else's head going on

hypocrisy keeps rearing its head, one is saying 'why do you have problems with how I wear my hair' but over and over again state they have problems how another does THEIR hair

so much wasted energy. Dont know how ya'll do it

But no one is doing that. This whole time I've been discussing hypothetical people...or at least people in the abstract sense of the word. It's just a discussion, I wasn't making it personal, y'all took it there.

No one has said they have problems with or even care how another person styles their hair. Dang, we've said that over and over and over again. It has nothing to do with hair styling.

I was speaking about one specific thing, which was internal acceptance of one's naked natural hair...I didn't say anything about physical manifestations of that acceptance. In fact, in my first post on the matter I specifically said it has nothing to do with hair style.

And why folks always throwing around how people are wasting their energy? We're all on a hair board discussing a random topic. Clearly we're all wasting energy.

 

[Irresistible]

You are "doin" it too. Why are you so concerned that we are concerned? lmao. I personally am enjoying reading and contributing to this thread.

I think its quite extreme to actually be so consumed about what another does with their hair , I actually really do, thats real

The only real concern should be your own hair and your own acceptance of it, not pointing fingers at your sistah's because they want a curl pattern, texture, moisture, non frizzy, straight or WHATEVER hair

who cares, truth be told its just more hair division/hate/separatism

nothing glorious in that

and trust its nothing new

quite old actually

and tired

 

[jupitermoon]

a problem? an issue?

for who? why make another's head of hair a problem or issue to/for YOU?

When you dont want someone to take issue with yours

no matter how you slice this

That was just my personal opinion. I realize that everyone defines embracing one's hair differently. I think people should be free to do whatever they want with their hair. I mean I may not agree with their choices or think their choices are mentally or physically healthy, but it's their hair not mine. It's no skin off of my back. I know what's good for me.

 

[msa]

I think its quite extreme to actually be so consumed about what another does with their hair , I actually really do, thats real

Then no one should be on hair boards because all they are is groups of people worried about what other folks are doing with their hair.

 

[jennboo]

But no one is doing that. This whole time I've been discussing hypothetical people...or at least people in the abstract sense of the word. It's just a discussion, I wasn't making it personal, y'all took it there.

No one has said they have problems with or even care how another person styles their hair. Dang, we've said that over and over and over again. It has nothing to do with hair styling.

I was speaking about one specific thing, which was internal acceptance of one's naked natural hair...I didn't say anything about physical manifestations of that acceptance. In fact, in my first post on the matter I specifically said it has nothing to do with hair style.

And why folks always throwing around how people are wasting their energy? We're all on a hair board discussing a random topic. Clearly we're all wasting energy.

LMAO exactly!!!

 

[Irresistible]

so what did this turn into

the anti-curl pattern thread

thats deep

it really is

I cant speak for the ladies that just dont want to accept their hair , I cant go around judging them or feeling superior to them either, I can only hope they do and for most it does take time and process and learning

but the moment ya'll see someone looking for a curl pattern ya'll are jumpin all down their back=they must not be accepting their hair

people do all kinds of things to enlongate their hair, banding, braiding, twisting, etc etc

is all that not accepting your hair too?

I been around a LONG ARSE time on all the boards and like I said trust this aint nothing new at all

and my take on it , division, hate, plain and simple

stick around long enough and thats all you will see it lead to

There actually is no RULE THAT PEOPLE EVER HAVE TO ACCEPT THEIR HAIR NATURAL AT ALL WHATSOEVER IFFIN THEY DONT WANT TO

its choice

imposition is whack!

 

[Irresistible]

Then no one should be on hair boards because all they are is groups of people worried about what other folks are doing with their hair.

far cry MSA but nice try

helping/support is one thing

division is clearly another and judgment

I mean I still dont even get where you are coming from , you clearly stated you wear weaves!!!!

see .....its hypocrisy

I guess you dont accept YOUR hair!

But see nobody that I COULD see really cared what you DO OR DONT DO with YOUR hair up in this thread

it was you...acceptance this and that

while you wear weaves? come on now!

 

[dynamic1]

Honestly the emotionality surrounding this issue, the consistent use of extremes to prove a point (which means that you don't really have one), people not reading the entire thread, and assuming things bc they come from certain posters are all contributing to the confusion in this thread. And like ive said a few times, when people get something in their minds, they run with it and refuse to stop and look at what was actually said in posts. It's as if they gloss over them quickly but don't really attend to them because it doesnt completely coincide with the idea/assumption they are running with.

No one said that people are unaccepting of their natural hair if they wear product in it. That would in fact, be ridiculous. Product makes the hair easier to comb, more pliable, and conditions it. Throwing some infusium or shea butter or glycerin on your hair will not change the hair texture (it doesn’t for me at least) and I doubt folks are overloading on these products to change their 4b hair to 3a.

HOWEVER, my stance is this (post 94):
"I agree with you. I think if someone dislikes their raw natural hair and has to shingle it to the high heavens (or flat iron it) in order for them to be okay with it then there's still that ashamed factor going on."

Like another poster stated, it is a very real phenomenon, this pathological desire to have curly hair so much so that gel containers and small toothed combs everywhere run for dear life. Think about it. Even include straight hair with that (don’t get me started). When the OBVIOUS GOAL is to consistently make your hair UN-NAPPY (If this is your raw texture) all the time says to me that you are not comfortable with that texture. Plain and simple.

Thats all that’s being said. I’m not sure where the confusion is about that.

*Watch someone come in here and totally misconstrue what I just said, LMAO

Jennboo I am generally on the same page with you a lot of the time (albeit with a bit less zeal, ok a lot less). People may respond with extreme posts based on your comments. I haven't seen anyone try to change their texture with gel, nor go from 4b to 3a without chemical assistance or rollersets. Some of your examples seem rather extreme. Are people really using styling products to alter their 4b texture to 3a? (not possible) Can you shingle to the high heavens? Seriously, type 4 hair with gel looks like type 4 hair with gel. Type 3 hair with gel looks like type 3 hair with gel. Are people spending countless hours shingling their type 4 hair every day? (which still loooks like shingled type 4 hair). I get where you're going because we have been down this road many times (well, not all on this board).

I remember the following debates:
loose naturals vs locs,
curl definers vs naked naturals,
colored nappturals vs. non-colored naturals
long natural hair vs. wear it short or your subscribing to the Euro standard,
heat straightened naturals vs. non-straightened naturals,
stretched naturals (banding, twistouts, braidouts) vs non-stretched naturals
and now we have the bkt vs non-bkt.

It just seems to get really nitpicky and ridiculous when I am just happy to see more black women going kinky/coily no matter where their journey takes them.

Again, how does a topic about embracing your own hair turn into judgement about what others do to their hair?

 

[msa]

so what did this turn into

the anti-curl pattern thread

thats deep

it really is

I cant speak for the ladies that just dont want to accept their hair , I cant go around judging them or feeling superior to them either, I can only hope they do and for most it does take time and process and learning

but the moment ya'll see someone looking for a curl pattern ya'll are jumpin all down their back=they must not be accepting their hair

people do all kinds of things to enlongate their hair, banding, braiding, twisting, etc etc

is all that not accepting your hair too?

Seriously Iris you are not reading.

How many times do we have to say that just because someone wants to twist, curly, straighten, shingle, or whatever doesn't mean they don't accept their hair? How many times?

No one here is anti curl pattern. No one here is saying elongating your hair means you don't accept it. No one here is judging and being superior.

And no one here is creating strife or division but you. Stop trying to draw lines in the sand.

 

[jennboo]

Jennboo I am generally on the same page with you a lot of the time (albeit with a bit less zeal, ok a lot less). People may respond with extreme posts based of your comments. I haven't seen anyone try to change their texture with gel, nor go from 4b to 3a without chemical assistance or rollersets. Some of your examples seem rather extreme. Are people really using styling products to alter their 4b texture to 3a? (not possible) Can you shingle to the high heavens? Seriously, type 4 hair with gel looks like type 4 hair with gel. Type 3 hair with gel looks like type 3 hair with gel. Are people spending countless hours shingling their hair every day? (which still loooks like shingled type 4 hair). I get what where you're going because we have been down this road many times (well, not all on this board).

I remember the following debates:
loose naturals vs locs,
curl definers vs naked naturals,
colored nappturals vs. non-colored naturals
long natural hair vs. wear it short or your subscribing to the Euro standard,
heat straightened naturals vs. non-straightened naturals,
stretched naturals (banding, twistouts, braidouts) vs non-stretched naturals
and now we have the bkt vs non-bkt.

It just seems to get really nitpicky and ridiculous when I am just happy to see more black women going kinky/coily no matter where their journey takes them.

Again, how does a topic about embracing your own hair turn into judgement about what others do to their hair?

Girl, where you been? Folks are always feenin' to get curls out of naps and kinks, LOL. I assure you my example was not extreme.

 

[Daughter]

Irresistible, it's not anti-curl pattern/curl definition per se, rather pointing out that some may have obsessions to achieve the above which often leads to disappointment/disillusion and general unhappiness with their hair. Hence, the best thing would be to not just tolerate or accept but embrace what ya got

 

[Irresistible]

I do agree that chasing the curl is the newest thing and it has its own set of issues. But I think it is because of the unrealistic expectations many people have when they transition or get rid of the relaxer. They see people with other hairtypes and, not knowing their own after relaxing for so long, hope they end up with the same textures. Thats why acceptance of one's own hair is important. You can't keep comparing yourself to someone else when your hair isnt the same. All you will end up doing is becoming a product junkie chasing the curly high.

Acceptance, or the degree to which one accepts, isnt universal, I'm guessing. If this group is any indication, then there are varying ideas of acceptance.

I do agree that some folks have extensive regimens and use a massive amount of products all for the sake of looking curly, but hey, that's on them. Some people have it naturally, others dont. I don't spend too much time thinking about others.

But the idea that the curl is "better" is pretty pervasive and that's troubling. It creates a hierarchy among naturals based on texture and aesthetic and we end up at square one again. So with all of these women transitioning and chopping and such, I have to wonder if we will enter a new realm of comparing "good" natural vs "bad" natural.

There will always be an "other" and people will always want what they don't have.

This has been going on a long long time already

its amongst the naturals curls vs naps

it used to be more prevelant with Relaxed vs Natural

and in all instances we are dividing ourselves

 

[msa]

far cry MSA but nice try

helping is one thing

division is clearly another and judgment

I mean I still dont even get where you are coming from , you clearly stated you wear weaves!!!!

see .....its hypocrisy

I guess you dont accept YOUR hair!

But see nobody that I COULD see really cared what you DO OR DONT DO with YOUR hair up in this thread

it was you...acceptance this and that

while you wear weaves? come on now!

First of all, it's obvious people cared what I do with my head since I was called a hypocrite more than once.

Second of all I said from the beginning that acceptance has nothing to do with a hair style. Here let me quote it for you again just in case you forgot.

I don't think one has to wear their hair naked and unmanipulated to be accepting. But I do think it's extremely important to accept and embrace your hair in that state...after all, that is your raw natural hair.

I just think when we're talking about accepting our hair, it's important that we accept our raw hair...doesn't mean you have to wear it that way, but the acceptance should be there.

And what I clearly stated in the beginning is that I have a fake hair stash...

I'm still working on accepting that I don't have super thick hair...and once I get rid of my fake hair stash I'll know that I'm 100% there.

Have I worn weaves in the past? Yes. But I haven't worn them in a while because I've been working on accepting my lack of thickness.

And as I clearly stated more than once throughout this thread, judging people based on their hairstyle is wrong. It's an inappropriate assumption. I haven't advocated anyone doing that, least of all myself.

Next time, read my posts.

 

[jamaraa]

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[Irresistible]

Irresistible, it's not anti-curl pattern/curl definition per se, rather pointing out that some may have obsessions to achieve the above which often leads to disappointment/disillusion and general unhappiness with their hair. Hence, the best thing would be to not just tolerate or accept but embrace what ya got

well I actually totally agree with that

and I been around these realms a long time in up in a tons/hundreds of fotki's and I love all natural hair and its all beautiful

But you know people have to go through process

some might not like their natural hair, do they really HAVE TO THOUGH?

Either they will or they wont , or they will do the innner work (if thats the problem) to do so

but who are the failing so badly if they dont? cant we lend a hand to their process with encouragement instead of this 'coming down on them stance'

I mean I just read another thread earlier , this girl had straight trauma because she straightened and went back and didnt like her natural hair

I mean these are normal processes and feelings at times

But I believe its all this 'shove acceptance' down their throat that will make them feel like a failure before they even start

heck I was 10 years in natural and going on the internet and experiencing this crap had a profound effect on me , till I shook it off

I was doing styles I didnt even really like -to be doing more natural styles

then I had an ephiphany, I LOVED MY BUN

and bump everything else

I felt my acceptance that way, not how SOMEONE ELSE shoved it down my throat