Embracing Your Natural Hair

[jennboo]

yeah girl your full of these jedi mind tricks today

it was you that said one was ASHAMED, nobody had nothin in their mind

u spit that out

You are pointing that out as if I don't know what i said, lol. I know what i said and i stand by it. Again, I don't know what to tell you all if you are annoyed by my opinions.:

"I agree with you. I think if someone dislikes their raw natural hair and has to shingle it to the high heavens (or flat iron it) in order for them to be okay with it then there's still that ashamed factor going on"

I don't think thats what being debated here. We know my stance, lol.

That was taken from post #94 by the way if you want to go to the source.

 

[Irresistible]

ok this is silly

you say we had it in our mind , but you said it , then say you know you said it, more circles

lord it dont even matter girl, what are you going to hear anyway? your the bomb girl you accept your natural hair you win the award, yay you!!!! your so much better than those that dont (thats how you want to feel right, I will help you feel that if you want me to)

goes and puts heavy leave in and oil in my hair

*GLOP*

You are pointing that out as if I don't know what i said, lol. I know what i said and i stand by it. Again, I don't know what to tell you all if you are annoyed by my opinions.:

"I agree with you. I think if someone dislikes their raw natural hair and has to shingle it to the high heavens (or flat iron it) in order for them to be okay with it then there's still that ashamed factor going on"

I don't think thats what being debated here. We know my stance, lol.

That was taken from post #94 by the way if you want to go to the source.

 

[jamaraa]

..........................................

 

[msa]

MSA someone (I forget who) DID bring up accepting your hair in it "raw" state as being "important", so it clearly IS an issue. That's what I'm addressing. The implication of such a question does suggest a degree of judgement towards others. It's the degrees thing that someone mentioned...it's like a card game, I raise you "raw" for "natural".

I simply want to know why it's important and to whom. Reasonable questions, I think.To date, nobody has actually answered them. All people keep saying it that it's important and bringing up the fact that many don't accept their natural hair at all.

Ok let's try this again.

The question was "do you fully embrace your natural hair?". When Iris brought up her point, it made me think and I responded with the following.

I don't think one has to wear their hair naked and unmanipulated to be accepting. But I do think it's extremely important to accept and embrace your hair in that state...after all, that is your raw natural hair.

There was no judgment or hierarchy implied in my post. I used the word raw to be descriptive...raw=naked ie without product.

If a person is saying they fully accept/embrace their natural hair, then I think a necessary part of that acceptance is also embracing their naked/raw hair. Saying "I like it but only if I have some gel in it" or "I like it but only after I straighten it" makes it seem to me that the person has not fully accepted their hair yet.

So to your question why is it important? It pertained to the subject matter. I think it's part of acceptance, and a very important part.

To whom is it important? Well my opinion is important to me but I wasn't trying to put it on anyone else. And I just thought it was an interesting point to add to the discussion.

I never said naked/raw hair is better than manipulated natural hair...or that manipulating your hair means you don't accept it. I thought that was clear in my post. And it definitely wasn't directed at anyone except the general "you". And as always, this is just all my opinion on this discussion. I wasn't "projecting" it at anyone nor was it intended to insult anyone.

 

[msa]

Of course, how many will remain natural over the years is a real question. I doubt many of the peole w/ the strongest opinions on the matter have been natural for 5 years, let alone 15+.

You want to talk about hierarchy...bringing up who's been natural the longest and whatnot is a form of hierarchy. It implies that some people's opinions are more or less valid based on the number of years they've worn their natural hair.

I've been natural going on 24 years and I happen to have strong opinions on the subject. But even if it was 24 hours, my opinions would count just as much as anyone else's.

 

[jennboo]

ok this is silly

you say we had it in our mind , but you said it , then say you know you said it, more circles

lord it dont even matter girl, what are you going to hear anyway? your the bomb girl you accept your natural hair you win the award, yay you!!!! your so much better than those that dont (thats how you want to feel right, I will help you feel that if you want me to)

goes and puts heavy leave in and oil in my hair

*GLOP*

Why does it even have to be that way? lol. Because i'm comfortable and actually like how my natural hair is, and by me accepting it, something MUST be wrong. Man, these white folks sure did a number on us, lol.

I can't even choose to enjoy my own hair (what grows out of my head) without someone thinking that there must be some ulterior motive for me doing/expressing so. This was a thread that asked whether or not folks embraced their natural hair, i simply answered the question.

 

[Irresistible]

do you ladies even understand that some women CANNOT wear their hair naked and raw? or what?

 

[purplepeace79]

I doubt many of the peole w/ the strongest opinions on the matter have been natural for 5 years, let alone 15+.

I know I'm an outlier, but I've been natural almost 15 years and I have pretty strong views on it. I'm not one of those who thinks people should never manipulate their hair though. It will fall out and you'll end up bald if you do absolutely NOTHING to it LOL.

However, I do have some very passionate views about sistas being natural and I just hope, one day, the majority of women will stop relaxing their hair.

I do agree, however, that people tend to be most passionate when they are newly natural and I think its because of the personal revolution that staying natural (that "going natural" phrase irks the crap out of me) does for people. There is also the fact that they are now in the margins, and people in the margins tend to bark the loudest (Think LGBT, Black Power, Feminists, etc). There is some overcompensation in their passion, but over the years, it wears off a bit lol. I've definitely mellowed out in my stance.

In fact, this year, I got a Dominican blow out for the first time in my life. 14 years in the game and I'd never had straightened hair, in any way (blow dry, hooded dryer, hot comb, flat iron). I would have NEVER done that 10 years ago.

 

[Irresistible]

Why does it even have to be that way? lol. Because i'm comfortable and actually like how my natural hair is, and by me accepting it, something MUST be wrong. Man, these white folks sure did a number on us, lol.

I can't even choose to enjoy my own hair (what grows out of my head) without someone thinking that there must be some ulterior motive for me doing/expressing so. This was a thread that asked whether or not folks embraced their natural hair, i simply answered the question.

Nah girl wear you hair how you want to , by all means

live and let live too if you can

 

[jennboo]

Well, I guess I can't get so enthused about natrual hair for it's own sake. I guess for people who've been natural for 5 mins and/or wear weaves/wigs and straight hair think it's so great, but it's just hair really. It's really no big deal to me and says little to nothing about the person you're looking at. Plenty of people who have natural hair are self-hating and self-interested....of course, the "natural hair test of loving oneself" only falls on women for some reason. The sexism of this annoys me too. How often does this convo ever deal w/ how men feel about their hair? It's always about women and how men repond to us.

Of course, how many will remain natural over the years is a real question. I doubt many of the peole w/ the strongest opinions on the matter have been natural for 5 years, let alone 15+.

You seem upset about my preference for my own natural hair, lol. Why is this?

 

[msa]

do you ladies even understand that some women CANNOT wear their hair naked and raw? or what?

Yes. I can barely do it without damage.

Do you understand me when I say accepting your naked hair has nothing to do with wearing your naked hair?

 

[purplepeace79]

Do you understand me when I say accepting your naked hair has nothing to do with wearing your naked hair?

I understood that point.

 

[LunadeMiel]

Yes. I can barely do it without damage.

Do you understand me when I say accepting your naked hair has nothing to do with wearing your naked hair?

I really don't understand what all of the confusion is about

 

[jamaraa]

There IS no confusion on my part. There's only talking in circles. I keep asking WHY do you think acceptance of your hair "in the raw" is so important to those who it is given that they aren't doing it themselves in their pics. Nobody here who agrees w/ this point can articulate WHY they do. If you have a stand about something, you should be able to at least articulate why you do.

There's just "feel good" banter and nitpicking, IMHO.

 

[BostonMaria]

*walks out of thread while doing the moon walk*

 

[msa]

There IS no confusion on my part. There's only talking in circles. I keep asking WHY do you think acceptance of your hair "in the raw" is so important to those who it is given that they aren't doing it themselves in their pics. Nobody here who agrees w/ this point can articulate WHY they do. If you have a stand about something, you should be able to at least articulate why you do.

There's just "feel good" banter, IMHO.

1. I just answered why a few posts above this one. IMO, fully embracing your natural hair includes accepting your hair without any additions. Here's an example...my body looks great when I have on spanx and a push up bra...but if I can't accept my body without those additions then I'm not fully embracing my body as it is.

2. The first 3 pics in my siggy show my naked hair. No products at all, unstretched. First one is damp. The middle two are dry.

 

[purplepeace79]

I keep asking WHY do you think acceptance of your hair "in the raw" is so important to those who it is given that they aren't doing it themselves in their pics.

There's just "feel good" banter and nitpicking, IMHO.

Ok, I think I get it lol. There is a difference among posters in the understanding of some of the terms being used.

For you, by what you just wrote, it seems that your idea of acceptance means representing that "acceptance" in some type of tangible form. In other words, you're suggesting that acceptance of "naked" hair means that people should probably be displaying that acceptance in the way their hair looks and you're wondering why they are adamant about "acceptance" when they don't seem to be perpetuating that acceptance in their appearance. You also don't think its that serious. Correct me if I am wrong.

I think others are saying that acceptance doesn't mean carrying the acceptance cross daily in one's styling (or lack thereof). Acceptance, for others, has little to do with appearance, and more to do with the abstract idea of simply accepting and appreciating that your hair grows this way out of your head. You don't fear it, hate it, or wish it was different. That basic abstract is what's important, I believe, for these posters... regardless of their styling choices after the point of acceptance.

 

[Neith]

I think we're all debating something we all agree on at this point

If someone can't stand their natural texture, there may be a problem there.

On the other hand, this doesn't mean that everyone who does something to groom their hair are self hating. Most people, from type 1 to type 4 groom their hair. Black naturals aren't the only ones who apply curl creams and what have you.

The point that MSA was trying to make is (I think), there IS a problem if you feel like your natural hair texture is bad and MUST be changed. Not because you want to groom it, but because you feel ashamed of it.

At the same time, I don't think that any of us are psychiatrists. I wouldn't be able to guess at who has issues by looking at how they style their hair. Just because someone likes to shingle/braid out/straighten or whatever else... doesn't automatically mean that they have natural hair issues.

 

[Irresistible]

There IS no confusion on my part. There's only talking in circles. I keep asking WHY do you think acceptance of your hair "in the raw" is so important to those who it is given that they aren't doing it themselves in their pics. Nobody here who agrees w/ this point can articulate WHY they do. If you have a stand about something, you should be able to at least articulate why you do.

There's just "feel good" banter and nitpicking, IMHO.

girl your better than me , I'm just too tired

But THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Irresistible]

I think we're all debating something we all agree on at this point

If someone can't stand their natural texture, there may be a problem there.

On the other hand, this doesn't mean that everyone who does something to groom their hair are self hating. Most people, from type 1 to type 4 groom their hair. Black naturals aren't the only ones who apply curl creams and what have you.

The point that MSA was trying to make is (I think), there IS a problem if you feel like your natural hair texture is bad and MUST be changed. Not because you want to groom it, but because you feel ashamed of it.

At the same time, I don't think that any of us are psychiatrists. I wouldn't be able to guess at who has issues by looking at how they style their hair. Just because someone likes to shingle/braid out/straighten or whatever else... doesn't automatically mean that they have natural hair issues.

Geesh! Again Thank you!!! to the bolded!!!

 

[jamaraa]

....................................

 

[LiberianGirl]

Umm Jenn...if I didn't want a dissenting opinion, I wouldn't have asked you WHY you said that, now would I? LOL....please don't try to do a Jedi Mind Trick on me. I'm a bit too old for it to work so well.

I'm quite familiar w/ your posts and I know where you stand. I guess it's a generation things cuz I'm quite a bit older than you (as is Iris) and some others. I know that these convos tend to bring rather extreme opinions. My whole point is that someone brought up "raw" hair and I wanted to know why such mintuae is so important. Natural hair is NOT enough, now it's raw.....what next, will shaving the head be the ultimate proof of self-acceptance for some?

None of this actually encourages people to go natural, IMHO. It just makes them feel as if they're walking into another trap of "not Black enuff" (in the "right way, of course) for someone. I don't think folks understand that this is hardly encoruagement for people to accept themselves. Being picked apart for relaxed, straightened, natural, or otherwise hair is just another form of picking people apart. Blacks get plenty of that anyway, so why add more?

Anyway, this is hypothethical AND hypocritical...hardly anyone goes around w/ their hair "raw". I don't like to point it out, but even the naturals who post pics here claiming LOUDLY that they are proud of being natural, have AT LEAST product of some sort on in those pics. How do I know they are....I've been natural for so long, I see it. LOL...funny the people who are so adamant about it are people who straighten their hair regularly and/or go thru weave phases. I do neither.

The red is very true. If one argues that it is important to accept hair in it's natural state, unmanipulated state...I would think wearing a weave would be highly hypocritical.

 

[LunadeMiel]

Some of you guys labor under the delusion that disagreement equals a lack of understanding. Nada. After all, what you're saying isn't exactly novel. I've heard it all before.

I'm happy w/ my hair in all states and your are too...great. Projecting stuff off onto others isn't my bag tho.

Neith she and others specifically discussed hair without product, hence she meant grooming. After all, how many people walk out of their homes sans any products?

I do . Naked hair is my fave. Most of the time my hair is naked, meaning zero products or leave ins.

 

[Irresistible]

Ok, I think I get it lol. There is a difference among posters in the understanding of some of the terms being used.

For you, by what you just wrote, it seems that your idea of acceptance means representing that "acceptance" in some type of tangible form. In other words, you're suggesting that acceptance of "naked" hair means that people should probably be displaying that acceptance in the way their hair looks and you're wondering why they are adamant about "acceptance" when they don't seem to be perpetuating that acceptance in their appearance. You also don't think its that serious. Correct me if I am wrong.

I think others are saying that acceptance doesn't mean carrying the acceptance cross daily in one's styling (or lack thereof). Acceptance, for others, has little to do with appearance, and more to do with the abstract idea of simply accepting and appreciating that your hair grows this way out of your head. You don't fear it, hate it, or wish it was different. That basic abstract is what's important, I believe, for these posters... regardless of their styling choices after the point of acceptance.

You and Neith mediated well, thank you!!!!

but still again how is there some tangible way to show acceptance when you dont wear your hair that way

i thought it was a given unless otherwise stated, that if a natural is natural and staying natural they are either in process or already do accept their hair

and for many it might take some time

so how do we go around proving what exact stage we are in

or why would we have to?

 

[msa]

Neith she and others specifically discussed hair without product, hence she meant grooming. After all, how many people walk out of their homes sans any products?

We definitely have different definitions of "grooming". Just because there's no product in the hair doesn't mean it isn't groomed.

And lots of people walk out of the house without product in their hair, including myself.

 

[Irresistible]

Some of you guys labor under the delusion that disagreement equals a lack of understanding. Nada. After all, what you're saying isn't exactly novel. I've heard it all before.

I'm happy w/ my hair in all states and your are too...great. Projecting stuff off onto others isn't my bag tho.

Neith she and others specifically discussed hair without product, hence she meant grooming. After all, how many people walk out of their homes sans any products?

yes they did over and over and over

 

[almond eyes]

Playing devil's advocate: If one has acne should they embrace their acne meaning be comfortable without using retin-A or no makeup? Why should one embrace acne, acne is a skin disorder.

With natural hair it depends, for years growing up my mother never used anything in my hair except grease on my scalp. I would get it braided but on many occasions it was in the raw (no product, no water, no combing, just patting) for school. And I have to be honest I never liked how it looked because it always looked dry. And when my mother would decide to shampoo it and condition it, it would always break off and snap in the comb which led to natural hair damage. So I had a natural but it was damaged even though it was in an afro state.

But I understand your point.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[Irresistible]

Its one thing to wear your hair naked because you like it , can and want to

its another to do it to feel 'more accepting' of your natural hair but then PROJECT that ish unto others

 

[msa]

The red is very true. If one argues that it is important to accept hair in it's natural state, unmanipulated state...I would think wearing a weave would be highly hypocritical.

Wearing a weave, straightening, shingling, etc. etc. are all the same. They're only an "issue" if the person is doing those things because they don't accept/embrace their own hair. But lots of people accept their hair and still do all those things as a hairstyle.

I think we're all saying the same thing...you can't, and shouldn't, judge by a hairstyle.

 

[Renovating]

comparing raw natural hair to a skin disorder = bad metaphor

JMHO