Dating African Men...

[LovelyNaps26]

All of the African women I knew growing up were natural but usually wore braids. My mother is anti relaxers. I didn't get my first relaxer until 21. I notice more of my relatives are relaxed now than they were in the 90's-2001.

OK. I got my info from reading a piece by a young African women from BGLH, I think. It might have been Curly Nikki

Most African women i know (mom, sister, aunts,cousins,friends) have natural hair. In my experience i don't think the desire for relaxed or straight hair is so deeply ingrained in our culture that we would have a natural hair "phenomenon" or "movement".
I'm wondering what would lead you to believe that most "West African" women wear weaves, wigs and relaxed hair as opposed to east/central/southern Africans? Is this from your personal experience?

I'm actually getting info from a piece I read by a young African woman...BGLH, maybe CurlyNikki. Also, the question was specific to woman living in West Africa. I'm sure it could apply to other parts of Africa but I was curious about West Africa as this was the area the young lady was from. I'll try to find the article...who knows I might have the region mixed up.

Well, there we have it. This is one of many reasons why using the word "typical" along with Africans causes confusion.


.[/U]

I agree. I realize that Africa is not one country with one distinct culture. I hope I didn't imply that. I used the term "typical" because it was used up thread to describe the "typical" African women as having a big behind, darker skinned, natural hair, etc. I was questioning that particular part of the statement. Based on the men the poster referenced (Ghanaian or Nigerian) I assumed that their wives were also West African, hence my question.


I asked for the opinion from women who are West African because while I know West African women I have never lived in West Africa. I'm genuinely curious and open to learning. I don't have a set belief or POV one way or the other.

 

[loolalooh]

I agree. I realize that Africa is not one country with one distinct culture. I hope I didn't imply that. I used the term "typical" because it was used up thread to describe the "typical" African women as having a big behind, darker skinned, natural hair, etc. I was questioning that particular part of the statement. Based on the men the poster referenced (Ghanaian or Nigerian) I assumed that their wives were also West African, hence my question.


I asked for the opinion from women who are West African because while I know West African women I have never lived in West Africa. I'm genuinely curious and open to learning. I don't have a set belief or POV one way or the other.

Thanks for understanding, and I genuinely respect your curiosity. Yea, when I saw the original post "typical [West] African women have a big behind, darker skinned, natural hair," I laughed. To me, "typical West African woman" and "natural hair" does not connect. (I'm not going to touch the other traits in the comment because that's a whole other thread. Lol.) If anything, I was told to either "braid" or "relax" my hair by Nigerians when I went natural. The African American community was more accepting of it. (This is in the US, I speak of.) Things are changing, though, as I see more Nigerians (in the US) go the natural route or stop wearing wigs/braids to cover their natural hair. However, we are not any more "natural" than our American counterparts. On top of that, if Chinedu or Emeka introduced me to his mom, she would probably talk about my slightly frizzy, natural twists and prefer a relaxer on my head. However, that's just in my immediate community so I can't speak for all Nigerians in the US, let alone all Nigerians everywhere. That's why it surprises me that one of the traits of a "typical African" or "typical West African" is viewed as "natural hair". So this is how we distinguish between African Americans and West Africans? Lol.

Now, in Nigeria, when I was last there (it's been a few years), my experience was: natural hair in the village (aka, rural region), and braids, wigs, or relaxed hair in the city (aka, Westernized region). Nigeria is big country, so who knows how much this experience varied across the land. (It's almost like when people base their opinions from having seen the plentiful natural-haired black women in DC and other people from having seen weaves in LA; it varies across the country.)

I think I know the BGLH post you were referring to, and it drew different experiences in the comments section. I think it's difficult to get to get a concrete answer to how most West African women wear their hair. However, we can share our experiences with you. Hopefully that helps.

 

[jerseygurl]

Thank you so much loolalooh for that explanation. You said it better than I could.

 

[Katherina]

I LOVE MY AFWIKAN BWADDAS!!!! ONE LOVE

january noir
Sounds like a Ghanaian name. They're sexy

 

[southerncitygirl]

this thread has taken an interesting turn and i'm surprised it hasn't been locked yet. in general i find west african women to be nice looking....stunning even. oh the other hand hand generally don't find west african men to be attractive at all, in fact funny looking to all out ugly tends to be my day to day experience, few tend to be the exception to the rule for me.....i also feel this way about indian women( pretty) & indian men (unfortunate or funny looking) as well.
i don't date african or carribean men at all for several reasons and the reasons why tend to overlap between the 2 cultures. i prefer to deal with ish that is familiar to me when it comes to the dealings of men and that is american....the only exception is that i would give a white european man a try.

i think its interesting that the things talked about in this thread that are being perceived as bashing african men when in fact african women who are friends of mine in my daily life and on this board have regularly said some of the same stuff the black american women have said in this thread. stop being so sensitive, when people say black american men ain't ish, i tend to agree and don't get defensive at all....heck i think most black men of any nationality ain't ish cause their mothers, aunts and grandmothers don't teach them what it takes to be a real man and promote hypermasculinity and chauvanistic behavior in them from them time they are small. even if they are taught to be good providers in terms of finances and working hard they have a huge deficit in others areas (steps out of thread and off soapbox).

 

[zenith]

Lalla, pardon me but I do find it strange that you would mention only the country France by it's name but not these other African countries you lived in. You are just calling them ' country' dont these countries have names? Or is there secrecy that we shouldnt know about these countries you lived in?

 

[january noir]

I LOVE MY AFWIKAN BWADDAS!!!! ONE LOVE

january noir
Sounds like a Ghanaian name. They're sexy

That's right. He was Ghanaian! Thanks!

 

[mischka]

"africa" is a country, dontcha know....

 

[lalla]

Lalla, pardon me but I do find it strange that you would mention only the country France by it's name but not these other African countries you lived in. You are just calling them ' country' dont these countries have names? Or is there secrecy that we shouldnt know about these countries you lived in?

Not really; just that I didn't want Cameoonian to criticise my calling them (in general) nationalistic. I thought not naming the countries would make it easier to focus on my experience vs. other people's opinion of these countries.

 

[anon123]

For those who dated controlling men, can you give examples of the controlling behavior?

 

[Kiowa]

For those who dated controlling men, can you give examples of the controlling behavior?

Ok..I'll bite..

I wasn't to wear any short skirts, anything that he considered revealing (ie showed that I had any kind of bust), no high heels (I'm tall,he was short) and oh yeah ...no make up

If someone whistled at me in the street or turned around and looked at me, I wasn't to turn around and look

I could not drive my own car when we went out, he could not be seen to driven by a female

Needless to say, he didn't last too long...

 

[mischka]

Ok..I'll bite..

I wasn't to wear any short skirts, anything that he considered revealing (ie showed that I had any kind of bust), no high heels (I'm tall,he was short) and oh yeah ...no make up

If someone whistled at me in the street or turned around and looked at me, I wasn't to turn around and look

I could not drive my own car when we went out, he could not be seen to driven by a female

Needless to say, he didn't last too long...

wtf... this is a large part of the reason why i stay single, i cannot submit to foolishness like this...

 

[Farida]

Can people specify which country the man they dated was from?

A man from Nigeria versus a man from Tanzania can be a huge difference. And that is even before you get down to tribal cultures.

I could sit here and analyze the stereotypes of the different Kenyan men by tribe.

I would rarely support anyone I know marrying someone who has no green card or citizenship.

 

[Farida]

I remember a post of a member here who found out her African boyfriend had a wife. She said all his family knew and never said anything to her.

He was probably using her for citizenship. Oh, and some men are raised in cultures where they think nothing of infidelity even if it was not for "papers." Hence family compliance.

Also, I know a lot of people who are international students who left a BF/GF back home and when they leave they seriously think they will stay together. Some of them go years without going back home and never really break up with each other but never get back together.

I remember all these starry-eyed girls I'd see at a student's "leaving" party and I'm thinking she'll probably never see him again, or he will meet someone else and not have the heart or balls to dump her.

 

[Farida]

I have a question and I do not want to offend anyone because Oreo's can be found in AA's too. However, I am friends with the Nigeria man who got his PHD in Germany and lived there for some years. Everytime he makes a reference to his culture back home, it is "Oh, in Germany we do it like this or that," but never in Africa/ Nigeria WTF?

Additionally, his daughter who is very young (pre-teen) says that she is from Germany, but was born here in the US, after they moved from Germany. I just find this strange. I suppose I want to know if I am the only person who experienced this

I can understand people who have moved around a lot or spent more time in another country than others.


But when I meet someone born and raised somewhere until they go to college abroad and they are talking about "Germany is home" I need them to GTFOOFHWTBS.

There was a dude at my college, he was West African (not sure if Ghanaian or Nigerian) and he had a very thick accent. Went by "Ryan" or some name like that. Then I asked him where he was from, knowing very well he must be WA because if his accent, he says "London."

Oh and I found out his real name and it was ethnic and not a difficult or rare name by any standards. I have studied language acquisition and taught language. Many times you can tell how long someone has lived somewhere based on how he talks. And this guy must have lived in WA or only WAs for a LONG time. He has a very thick accent.

It happens everywhere, I meet all sorts of Latinos insisting they are "Spanish" (not of Spanish descent but in the sense of I am not a Latino, I am a white person better than all the others), Persians who insist they are Italian etc smh

 

[zenith]

"africa" is a country, dontcha know....

It is? Do they all speak African. & do they look like typical Africans too?

I think I need to visit this place.

 

[lesedi]

i have dated south african and nigerian men. Wasn't impressed. i was expected to act like a wife circa 1899 while they lived a la jersey shore. I also grew tired of them justifying bad behaviour on culture and tradition- what a cop out.
It's like how they justify polyygamy and cheating talking bout 'its what has always been done'....well, erm back in the day they had multiple WIVES not sidepieces and they were looked after in all realms. You going out trying to lay anything with mammaries is not the same thing.

 

[zenith]

Not really; just that I didn't want Cameoonian to criticise my calling them (in general) nationalistic. I thought not naming the countries would make it easier to focus on my experience vs. other people's opinion of these countries.

According to your OP, only France got a raving review and got mentioned. you criticized all these other african countries saying that you did not fit in because you weren't submissive or into studying... They don't study in France, non? They aren't submissive pple there as well?
Hope France loves you back!

 

[Farida]

Ok, question. If an African man marries an American woman and gains citizenship, can he divorce her and then grant citizenship to an African woman since technically he is a citizen now too? Secondhand citizenship giving? :

Yes. However, due to the Immigration Marriage Fraud Act (IMFA) he would have several problems.

1) You do not technically give someone citizenship. You can only give them residency, and through marriage it is "conditional" residency." If the marriage fails before a certain time or the interview with USCIS smacks of fraud, residency is terminated and the person is placed in deportation proceedings.
- If he satisfies conditions of the temp residency, he will become a resident and then after a few years apply for citizenship.

2) Nothing speaks immigration fraud more than a person from another country marrying a U.S. citizen of a different culture and or race and then getting divorced soon after gaining residency. Have fun at your USCIS interview if you do that! Not impossible but errr, not good.

Oh and permanent residency can be revoked any time. Does not matter if you have been here 50 years. Which is why some people remain married until they apply for naturalization even though you do not need a spouse for that if you have permanent, unconditional residency.

PLUS, if it is discovered you gained your visa, green card and or citizenship through fraud anywhere along the line, you will be denaturalized, have your GC revoked as applicable and will be considered a FELON. Which is why I cannot believe many women allow men to use them for citizenship and do not report them. Unless you colluded with the man, he will be in trouble. Even if you colluded with him, I'm pretty sure DHS would be willing to work with you to make sure you don't get into too much trouble.

3) A person who gains residency/citizenship through marriage cannot confer that status to another spouse for 5 years.

IMFA, even where there are legit marriages can cause a lot of problems. Not to mention DHS/ICE seem to have unfettered discretion in immigration law. They are known to spy on people, perform "bed checks" (where they come and see if you are in bed together at home), question people's landlords, talk to your neighbors, sit outside your house stalking you...get leasing consultants to let them into your apartment while you are gone, calling your relatives to see if they know of your marriage...

not to mention ask inappropriate/forbidden questions at your interview such as how often you have sex, your favorite positions, identifying body marks...but people want status so bad they will be silent and take the illegal questioning rather than report.


Maybe people who married pre 9/11 or marry people from countries with little demand for US citizenship have it easier, but Africans, Mexicans, Indians, Filipinos all have the extra mile.

All the ^^^^^ is my opinion/analysis of general matters and not legal advice for anyone.

 

[mischka]

It is? Do they all speak African. & do they look like typical Africans too?

I think I need to visit this place.

yes. all the ethnicities are "african" too.

 

[Farida]

Off topic: I thought most African (well, West African) women wore either weaves, wigs or had relaxed hair. I remember reading that the whole "natural hair phenomenon" wasn't really pervasive in Africa the way it is in the U.S in recent years. i didn't know natural hair was typical. Can someone from west Africa (Nigeria, Ghana) confirm or deny this based on your experience?

As to the OP: I have nothing to add, as I don't have any personal experience.

It is often a class issue. People in urban areas tend to emulate the west. People in rural areas tend to keep it simple. Most rural folk have natural hair.

In Nairobi, Kenya, there is a good mix of natural and relaxed women. There is not as much of a stigma or surprise about having natural hair as it is in many places. In fact most young kids tend to have natural hair well into their teens or adulthood. My mom did not get a relaxer till she was in her late 30s.

Plus a lot of Kenyan teens go to boarding schools and some do not allow relaxers and others do not even allow hair (which really PAINS me as to why this archaic and demeaning practice IMO). My cousin went to a school where she was only allowed to have one inch of natural hair at all times. For this reason a lot of the older generation like short hair because they associate it with youth. In fact when my relatives would cut their hair they would all of a sudden seem younger to me.

Also, I hate how people move to the US and become "African braiders" who are rude and don't do a job worth the price. When I was 15 it cost maybe $10 to get microbraids in Nairobi done and they would be very well done. Nothing like a lot of the hot mess I see some African braiders try to pass off here. My aunt has a great braider and when she visits I just marvel at her hair.

 

[Farida]

I have not dated South Africans but South Africa has one of the highest HIV rates in the world despite being one of the most developed African nations which is very sad. There is something about the poverty/behavior treatment of African communities in S.A. that I don't understand.

Oh, and in Kenya for example polygamy has been illegal for years. When my mom got married polygamy wasn't legal. So most of these dudes are just trying to jump on some convenient bandwagon and justify it with "back in the day."

The sad thing is many African women in Africa are not well-educated and are treated as a sub-standard class. Women's rights have a long way to go in Africa and for as long as women are treated like that, men will grow and develop with a sense of dominance/disrespect of women depending on their families' values.

i have dated south african and nigerian men. Wasn't impressed. i was expected to act like a wife circa 1899 while they lived a la jersey shore. I also grew tired of them justifying bad behaviour on culture and tradition- what a cop out.
It's like how they justify polyygamy and cheating talking bout 'its what has always been done'....well, erm back in the day they had multiple WIVES not sidepieces and they were looked after in all realms. You going out trying to lay anything with mammaries is not the same thing.

 

[Farida]

And if I were to make generalizations, based on my personal experience I would not date or marry a Kenyan man born before 1980.

Our generational gaps are much wider. My grandmother lived in a hut and never owned a pair of shoes until my mom had graduated college. My grandmother lived under British rule. My mom lived in a "galvanized iron" house until she moved to the city. She got her first pair of shoes when she was about 12 and was punished for wearing them to school. My generation and younger in the city live in regular houses, drive, have ipods etc.

I have a really good Kenyan friend who is a somewhat older than I am and I would never marry a guy like him because his views are too archaic for me. He would expect me to be barefoot and pregnant and serving him. Even though he would play his part and provide and love a woman, someone like me does not want anything of the sort. I'm sure most American women would not.

Especially those who grow up in rural areas...they tend to have adopted very little western culture and ideas.

Imagine, me, a native, born and raised, unable to be in a relationship with some of these men? So I can only imagine what is like for AA and other foreign women trying to bridge the gap.

 

[lesedi]

Farida: i dont understand the xenophobia in south afroca either. Many south africans genuinally do not believe that south africa is a part of africa. Its sad as hell. My grandmother tells me that when she was in school there, they often referred to any african country as 'somewhere in africa'. Smh. Must be a legacy of apartheid. To this day, a woman i work with doesnt understand why my ex is nigerian....talking bout 'but you have options
. Smh......to stay sane i just have to laugh at the ignorance. A lecture would be wasted.

 

[nappystorm]

It is often a class issue. People in urban areas tend to emulate the west. People in rural areas tend to keep it simple. Most rural folk have natural hair.

In Nairobi, Kenya, there is a good mix of natural and relaxed women. There is not as much of a stigma or surprise about having natural hair as it is in many places. In fact most young kids tend to have natural hair well into their teens or adulthood. My mom did not get a relaxer till she was in her late 30s.

Plus a lot of Kenyan teens go to boarding schools and some do not allow relaxers and others do not even allow hair (which really PAINS me as to why this archaic and demeaning practice IMO). My cousin went to a school where she was only allowed to have one inch of natural hair at all times. For this reason a lot of the older generation like short hair because they associate it with youth. In fact when my relatives would cut their hair they would all of a sudden seem younger to me.

Also, I hate how people move to the US and become "African braiders" who are rude and don't do a job worth the price. When I was 15 it cost maybe $10 to get microbraids in Nairobi done and they would be very well done. Nothing like a lot of the hot mess I see some African braiders try to pass off here. My aunt has a great braider and when she visits I just marvel at her hair.

I like African braiders. I'm feeling some kind of way about that $10 for micros though

 

[Farida]

i have dated south african and nigerian men. Wasn't impressed. i was expected to act like a wife circa 1899 while they lived a la jersey shore. I also grew tired of them justifying bad behaviour on culture and tradition- what a cop out.
It's like how they justify polyygamy and cheating talking bout 'its what has always been done'....well, erm back in the day they had multiple WIVES not sidepieces and they were looked after in all realms. You going out trying to lay anything with mammaries is not the same thing.

I like African braiders. I'm feeling some kind of way about that $10 for micros though

It is not all African braiders which is why I had the quotation marks. Some people do that for marketing purposes and are not great braiders or good customer service type businesses. Referrals are the best way to find some good ones.

I'm sure the $10 has gone up over time with inflation and all. Don't feel bad. The cost of living over there is so different than it is here and it explains some of the disparity. That's not to say you cannot go to other places and pay $200-300 as well over there.

Also, there's not as much red tape in terms of government regulation in the beauty industry. Plus being a majority black nation the number of braiding providers and clients is much larger than here in the states.

50% of Kenyans make less than $2 a day. That is not a living wage by any means, but it goes way further than it does in the U.S.

 

[RossBoss]

But when I meet someone born and raised somewhere until they go to college abroad and they are talking about "Germany is home" I need them to GTFOOFHWTBS.

There was a dude at my college, he was West African (not sure if Ghanaian or Nigerian) and he had a very thick accent. Went by "Ryan" or some name like that. Then I asked him where he was from, knowing very well he must be WA because if his accent, he says "London."

Umm, maybe the people who don't have any warm sentimental feelings about their true "home" feel that way for a reason. Years ago, I worked with a girl from Somalia and she would tell you in a heartbeat that she is American and wanted nothing to do with her country of birth because her life there was so miserable. Her parents immigrated here when she was a pre-teen and she said she never ever wanted to go back to that country again and did her best to get rid of the accent(although she still had it) and did her best to assimilate into American culture. She never went into details about what it was that led her to feel that way but she said that was a chapter of her life she never wanted to revisit again. Who could blame her?

 

[Farida]

Umm, maybe the people who don't have any warm sentimental feelings about their true "home" feel that way for a reason. Years ago, I worked with a girl from Somalia and she would tell you in a heartbeat that she is American and wanted nothing to do with her country of birth because her life there was so miserable. Her parents immigrated here when she was a pre-teen and she said she never ever wanted to go back to that country again and did her best to get rid of the accent(although she still had it) and did her best to assimilate into American culture. She never went into details about what it was that led her to feel that way but she said that was a chapter of her life she never wanted to revisit again. Who could blame her?

I know Somalia is terrible. They have not had a government in Lord knows how long. Clinton sent troops in there and did not have the wherewithal to follow through or should not have gone at all.

I know people who come here as all sorts of refugees and with varied experiences.

Many run of the mill immigrants to the United States, legal or not are here for economic reasons. You find Italians, Mexicans, Persians all sorts of immigrants who are very pro their old country and culture even though some of them have never set foot in that country.

You talk to many immigrants, they complain about the USA. People say why don't they go back to their own countries? Many work here for several years and go back home where life is cheaper and they are at "home." People can correct me if I am wrong but as far as I know for the most part Nigerians, Kenyans, Tanzanians, Ghanaians, end up here for the economic opportunities and to pass on that to their kids.

However, a lot of immigrants I know acknowledge their "home" and are still very patriotic US citizens. Many give up good jobs (how many stories do you hear of engineers and doctors working as cab drivers, they do it for their kids).

There's assimilation and there's people who are just a mess. I'm sure many people with horrific memories of home would rather forget...and I don't blame them, but the guy I noticed in particular seemed to be more about setting himself apart as if he were ashamed of being African. Your friend who wants to forget still let you know or you found out she was Somali.

And I knew the kid in college who insisted on his "spanish blood" yet he was born and raised in the U.S.A by his very Mexican parents. What is that about?

I don't like people who refuse to adapt to American culture while reaping the benefits, in the same vein I don't like people who are quick to ditch their roots unless they have painful reasons like your friend.

 

[rabs77]

Plus a lot of Kenyan teens go to boarding schools and some do not allow relaxers and others do not even allow hair (which really PAINS me as to why this archaic and demeaning practice IMO). My cousin went to a school where she was only allowed to have one inch of natural hair at all times. For this reason a lot of the older generation like short hair because they associate it with youth. In fact when my relatives would cut their hair they would all of a sudden seem younger to me.

Farida
I had to wear my hair super short during high school and I hated it, especially since I had had long hair prior in elementary school. I now understand their reasoning as an adult. We were entering boarding school at age 11-many kids at that age can not manage their own natural hair and maintain it tidy, hence the requirement to cut it. Even if they could, it would be time consuming, and they prefered that most of the time was spent studing instead of primping. Some schools allowed the girls to grow out their hair (maintained in cornrows)once you reached sixth form. But trust me, I hated it!!! Nothing else to add to this convo.

 

[RossBoss]

There's assimilation and there's people who are just a mess. I'm sure many people with horrific memories of home would rather forget...and I don't blame them, but the guy I noticed in particular seemed to be more about setting himself apart as if he were ashamed of being African. Your friend who wants to forget still let you know or you found out she was Somali.

And I knew the kid in college who insisted on his "spanish blood" yet he was born and raised in the U.S.A by his very Mexican parents. What is that about?

I don't like people who refuse to adapt to American culture while reaping the benefits, in the same vein I don't like people who are quick to ditch their roots unless they have painful reasons like your friend.

Well, she was just a co-worker, not really a friend, and there was no way she could hide that she was Somalian as they have a distinctive look, which she had and she also had an accent, so she couldn't hide it even if she wanted to. But I see what you are saying and agree with the rest of your post.