BAMBOOZLED by Afroveda

[EllePixie]

No, Elle. There are regulations regarding labeling. The FDA requires that you label in order of proportion of ingredient of your product (high to low). People who are not labeling correctly are falling short of regulations. And they shouldn't be omitting anything either

Dang...well then there are some companies the FDA needs to go see! Thanks for clarifying.

P.S. coilynapp I didn't know you were on here! Hey!

 

[EllePixie]

Kind of OT but I want to say that I really respect the fact that Qhemet leaves negative reviews on their site. I hate it when companies take them off - yes, I know that it could potentially hurt business to leave up negative feedback but everyone's hair is different...usually I read the reviews, but if I think it will be good for MY hair I try it anyway. For instance there were definitely neg. reviews for the Olive and Honey Hydrating Balm on the site, I got it anyway and my hair LOVED it. So, I really feel like companies should just be honest - if they have a good product people will buy it, even if it does not work for everyone.

 

[Noir]

Noir I thought that the concept of ingredients being listed in order of the proportion used wasn't regulated. I have seen some companies in stores list all of their herbal extracts at the top but I was pretty sure that wasn't the bulk of the product. I could be wrong regarding the regulation but for small companies I feel it would be fairly easy for them to stick their added ingredients in the middle and fall under the radar. A lot of companies that use bases leave out ingredients like TEA.

Labeling laws are very strict for cosmetics. However a lot of indie companies (big and small) get away with labeling violations, because as you mentioned; most fly under the radar. There is currently a shortage of FDA officials, so they go after the companies who are the biggest violators, with larger revenues or those who are reported. There are quite a few small companies who have been fined for violating labeling laws though.

Aubrey Hampton, founder of Aubrey Organics is one of the biggest violators. This company has been fined so many times and yet the still get away with mislabeling their products. Aubrey Organics have deep pockets so they pay the fines (word on the street is that they also pay the authorities off) and then continue to do what they do. Here is one official Warning Letter to Aubrey Organics, Inc. by the Department of Health and Human Services.

 

[EllePixie]

Labeling laws are very strict for cosmetics. However a lot of indie companies (big and small) get away with labeling violations, because as you mentioned; most fly under the radar. There is currently a shortage of FDA officials, so they go after the companies who are the biggest violators, with larger revenues or those who are reported. There are quite a few small companies who have been fined for violating labeling laws though.

Aubrey Hampton, founder of Aubrey Organics is one of the biggest violators. This company has been fined so many times and yet the still get away with mislabeling their products. Aubrey Organics have deep pockets so they pay the fines (word on the street is that they also pay the authorities off) and then continue to do what they do. Here is one official Warning Letter to Aubrey Organics, Inc. by the Department of Health and Human Services.

THANK YOU!!!!! I was talking about AO but I couldn't remember if it was them or Elucence (shoot, could be both)...I was reading AO ingreds one day and I was like there is NO WAY all those extracts make up the majority of this product.

 

[Noir]

Blending stuff in a clender, whipping them up in a huge bowl, and then packaging. It could be that a base is included in that but seeing as I saw much of the process with my own eyes I will stand by them at least.

That is what you do with all bases. You add your fragrance and extra additives like extracts, oils etc.... mix it, whip it and then package it.

And yes from my understanding, hairveda works with pre-formulated bases also.

 

[coilynapp]

Dang...well then there are some companies the FDA needs to go see! Thanks for clarifying.

P.S. coilynapp I didn't know you were on here! Hey!

HEY!! I rarely post on here, I mostly lurk

 

[Rastafarai]

It's called markup and every company HAS to do that to make money. They make something for 2 dollars and charge you 6 dollars. How else would they make a profit? And where they get their "ingredients" and the formula is always hush hush. Why would they tell you so you can make it/get it yourself? You can turn my words around into whatever you want but I have nothing against those companies. I was speaking about businesses in general. Do those businesses that u named use bases for at least one of their products? Maybe. Do I know? Nope? Do I care? Not really. If it's effective and reasonably priced, whether they whip it in their kitchen, send it to a lab or use bases . . . . I don't really care. I would rather support them than the bigger corporations who don't even have me on their radar. If i'm not willing to make it myself and do the leg work, then why am I complaining. There's always luster's pink oil to go back to

I am not twisting your words. You suggest that for a business to be successful they MUST exploit and be dishonest as it is, according to your definition, the nature of capitalism. I respectfully disagree and I am sure we can agree to disagree on this point.

Further, I do not synonymize "mark up" with exploitation and dishonesty. Point blank, Mala Rhodes lied to her customers. Whether or not her customers choose to support her from hereonin is their choice. But at least they are more aware and can find cheaper alternatives to the same products they grew to love.

 

[Kurlee]

Labeling laws are very strict for cosmetics. However a lot of indie companies (big and small) get away with labeling violations, because as you mentioned; most fly under the radar. There is currently a shortage of FDA officials, so they go after the companies who are the biggest violators, with larger revenues or those who are reported. There are quite a few small companies who have been fined for violating labeling laws though.

Aubrey Hampton, founder of Aubrey Organics is one of the biggest violators. This company has been fined so many times and yet the still get away with mislabeling their products. Aubrey Organics have deep pockets so they pay the fines (word on the street is that they also pay the authorities off) and then continue to do what they do. Here is one official Warning Letter to Aubrey Organics, Inc. by the Department of Health and Human Services.

 

[Kurlee]

I am not twisting your words. You suggest that for a business to be successful they MUST exploit and be dishonest as it is, according to your definition, the nature of capitalism. I respectfully disagree and I am sure we can agree to disagree on this point.

Further, I do not synonymize "mark up" with exploitation and dishonesty. Point blank, Mala Rhodes lied to her customers. Whether or not her customers choose to support her from hereonin is their choice. But at least they are more aware and can find cheaper alternatives to the same products they grew to love.

You are misinterpreting my views, but I'm not going to argue. If u insist that that's what I meant, then there's not much more to say. Agree to disagree . . . .

 

[AfroKink]

I found out about bases many moons ago when I was making my own products. I bought the books, did the research, bought the raw ingredients and equipement, and kept a log book. I made butters, lotions, moisturizers and spritzers. I was getting ready to move to conditioners and shampoos when I saw the wholesalers with the different conditioner and shampoo bases. Around that time my life started getting busy and I stopped mixing.

Now I only make oil/butter mixes so I dont have to get into the preservative mumbo jumbo.

LHCF use to have a forum for homemade products. Now I think its hidden in another forum. NP also has/had a great forum on making products.

Maybe one day I'll get back into it. I'd love to create my own staple conditioners. If I do, I'll be hitting up Noir!

 

[AfroKink]

Oh and for the record, I never tried Afroveda and the like. I shy away from things I *think* I can make myself. Plus with Skala and V05 working so well... I just can't do it!

 

[LittleLuxe]

It's called markup and every company HAS to do that to make money. They make something for 2 dollars and charge you 6 dollars. How else would they make a profit? And where they get their "ingredients" and the formula is always hush hush. Why would they tell you so you can make it/get it yourself? You can turn my words around into whatever you want but I have nothing against those companies. I was speaking about businesses in general. Do those businesses that u named use bases for at least one of their products? Maybe. Do I know? Nope? Do I care? Not really. If it's effective and reasonably priced, whether they whip it in their kitchen, send it to a lab or use bases . . . . I don't really care. I would rather support them than the bigger corporations who don't even have me on their radar. If i'm not willing to make it myself and do the leg work, then why am I complaining. There's always luster's pink oil to go back to

I think in the bolded there are some things worthy of correction at least from my pov. I believe what's motivating the dissapointment and current Afroveda-gate is exactly what you are using to support a company. Is their product effective? At times...and at other times it is also inferior, quick to spoil, quick to smell, and long to reach your doorstep. Is it reasonably priced? Well considering we just found out she uses bases and the few ingredients she is adding are also incredibly cheap...no. Everyone is aware things are marked up in business however not every business has the luxury to play the same game and with good reason. Afroveda is no Apple. This woman is not devoting weeks of man-power to experimentation, calculating, product survery and diligent craftsmanship to put out a multi-faceted product. They are able to charge what they do because they put out a superior product which they are responsible for and are assured their customers will love. On the flip go to a BSS store and scope he many brands....note how cheap most of the products are? Because each company is aware their product is no more special or better than the bottle sitting next to it, they do not have the luxury to look around and go "We're going to raise the price on our company by $5 because we believe our moisturizer is worth it." then come to find out their moisturizer is basically the same as the bottle next to it with 1 ingredient added. I assure you that product will sit on the shelves at the BSS while women move on. In Mala's case she based her company and prices around a fantasy and the price hikes sent her consumers seeking knowledge.

It's the internet age and consumers aren't quite the uninformed trusting masses they once were. I personally have no devotion to a company simply because it is smaller or even because it's black-run (though that's a nice touch) it's because I support a product they put out and appreciate what goes into it (namely: less chemicals, more healthy ingredients, and a more honest business approach) if the company can't fulfill what it's supposed to based on it's business approach and promise to me as a consumer...I'm gone. In Mala's case the price hike didn't support the product she puts out or on further inspection the product she's creating. If she was making a great product with bases it might have been forgivable, but alas.

And as for not making it therefore one should be more accepting...within reason yes I agree but the fact of the matter is there's a little too much competition and instability in the market for that. I can't think of individuals who make their own trucks or laptops either but if a popular company makes a bad business move and puts itself under the radar they will suffer (just ask Toyota). Yes Afroveda wasn't the only company using bases but unfortunately for it, it took the bullet possibly meant for another company by trying to raise prices on an inferior product. Other online companies will look at Afroveda and realize their place in the market and where they stand.

Small companies come with their own flaws and issues, wait time, delivery cost & etc. but if they put out a great product it's okay. That is one reason I'm willing to overlook Hairveda using bases, because what they do add (Ayurvedic Herbs) is something I'm not willing to devote time to preparing (I've tried, it's hard work) and the product they make is pretty great, the price is acceptable and overall save for a sale the products reach you within the prescribed time under her business sheet. However companies such as KeraCare are already working to reach the market those online hair companies are servicing and if any other company is so stupid to underestimate their consumer they'll end up sending them right back into the waiting arms of companies who's products are cheap, easy to purchase and probably better.

Good luck to Afroveda but she should understand it's just business all around. Her desire to raise prices and take shortcuts unfortunately put her in a bad light and since her company isn't so profound to get away with it. Small companies succeed because they fill a niche bigger companies can't, by trying to emulate the business practices of those bigger than them they usually lose their initial customers (Carol's Daughter) or respect (Miss Jessie's). Just my 2 cents.

 

[kmn1980]

Aubrey Hampton, founder of Aubrey Organics is one of the biggest violators. This company has been fined so many times and yet the still get away with mislabeling their products. Aubrey Organics have deep pockets so they pay the fines (word on the street is that they also pay the authorities off) and then continue to do what they do. Here is one official Warning Letter to Aubrey Organics, Inc. by the Department of Health and Human Services.

JHC. I want to know what is it about the ingredients that they were putting in but not listing that made them do so? Someone's going to catch an allergic reaction and sue them for non-disclosure if they keep on.

 

[Neith]

JHC. I want to know what is it about the ingredients that they were putting in but not listing that made them do so? Someone's going to catch an allergic reaction and sue them for non-disclosure if they keep on.

I'm thinking it's preservatives - Citrus Seed Extract, Vitamins A, C and E is listed as "Aubrey's Preservative" on nearly every bottle.

That's crap. Those are not broad spectrum preservatives. No way that it's the only thing they use.


Their Coconut Fatty Acid Cream Base has always been suspect to me too. It's most likely cetyl alcohol and other additives.


Who knows what else they lie about? I've stopped using their products. I like to actually know what's in the product I buy.

I'm all for business and Capitalism... but some companies (big and small) are just unnecessarily deceitful. Make a good quality product and be honest about it and you'll have a loyal following. Sheesh.

 

[Tiye]

I found out about bases many moons ago when I was making my own products. I bought the books, did the research, bought the raw ingredients and equipement, and kept a log book. I made butters, lotions, moisturizers and spritzers. I was getting ready to move to conditioners and shampoos when I saw the wholesalers with the different conditioner and shampoo bases. Around that time my life started getting busy and I stopped mixing.

Now I only make oil/butter mixes so I dont have to get into the preservative mumbo jumbo.

LHCF use to have a forum for homemade products. Now I think its hidden in another forum. NP also has/had a great forum on making products.

Maybe one day I'll get back into it. I'd love to create my own staple conditioners. If I do, I'll be hitting up Noir!

Same here. Bases are useful for some things. Unless you're an experienced chemist specializing in cosmetics you'll probably have a hard time with the shampoo and conditioner formulation. Lip balms are a pita to hand mix and pour - if I'd known about bases instead of making my own I'd still be selling the stuff. BTW FDA regs are for large companies not for small indie sellers. I see people on boards all the time talking about the position of a particular ingredient on the label and I shake my head because while we can all choose to believe whatever we want that's putting too much faith in a bottle of conditioner.

I'm not an afroveda customer but I just checked out their website and they look like a growing company - with what may be some decent product lines (can't say for sure though without using them). I don't pass on things just coz I can make them myself because I'm always curious about what others are doing ... besides I can cook too but that doesn't mean I don't eat out. I can make cakes just fine but I still like Starbucks pastries. If they use bases for some of their products - as stated earlier that's no big deal. If they referenced some ideas seen on another website - unless they copy and pasted them that's not a huge deal either - humans have been caring for hair for 100s of thousands of years so no one is inventing the wheel with any of this stuff. I gather people are pzzzed about the price hikes - but keep in mind any retailer can do that at any time and there are a couple of things that people can do. If you really like the stuff you can use less of it - if it's pricey to you then you don't need to be using it up like it's v05 and there's no reason for an 8 oz jar not to last several months. Or you can go elsewhere there are scads of people selling natural beauty products. Or you can make your own but keep in mind that this isn't cheap either.

I think in the bolded there are some things worthy of correction at least from my pov. I believe what's motivating the dissapointment and current Afroveda-gate is exactly what you are using to support a company. Is their product effective? At times...and at other times it is also inferior, quick to spoil, quick to smell, and long to reach your doorstep. Is it reasonably priced? Well considering we just found out she uses bases and the few ingredients she is adding are also incredibly cheap...no. Everyone is aware things are marked up in business however not every business has the luxury to play the same game and with good reason. Afroveda is no Apple. This woman is not devoting weeks of man-power to experimentation, calculating, product survery and diligent craftsmanship to put out a multi-faceted product. They are able to charge what they do because they put out a superior product which they are responsible for and are assured their customers will love. On the flip go to a BSS store and scope he many brands....note how cheap most of the products are? Because each company is aware their product is no more special or better than the bottle sitting next to it, they do not have the luxury to look around and go "We're going to raise the price on our company by $5 because we believe our moisturizer is worth it." then come to find out their moisturizer is basically the same as the bottle next to it with 1 ingredient added. I assure you that product will sit on the shelves at the BSS while women move on. In Mala's case she based her company and prices around a fantasy and the price hikes sent her consumers seeking knowledge.

It's the internet age and consumers aren't quite the uninformed trusting masses they once were. I personally have no devotion to a company simply because it is smaller or even because it's black-run (though that's a nice touch) it's because I support a product they put out and appreciate what goes into it (namely: less chemicals, more healthy ingredients, and a more honest business approach) if the company can't fulfill what it's supposed to based on it's business approach and promise to me as a consumer...I'm gone. In Mala's case the price hike didn't support the product she puts out or on further inspection the product she's creating. If she was making a great product with bases it might have been forgivable, but alas.

And as for not making it therefore one should be more accepting...within reason yes I agree but the fact of the matter is there's a little too much competition and instability in the market for that. I can't think of individuals who make their own trucks or laptops either but if a popular company makes a bad business move and puts itself under the radar they will suffer (just ask Toyota). Yes Afroveda wasn't the only company using bases but unfortunately for it, it took the bullet possibly meant for another company by trying to raise prices on an inferior product. Other oneline companies will look at Hairveda and realize their place in the market and where they stand.

Small companies come with their own flaws and issues, wait time, delivery cost & etc. but if they put out a great product it's okay. That is one reason I'm willing to overlook Hairveda using bases, because what they do add (Ayurvedic Herbs) is something I'm not willing to devote time to preparing (I've tried, it's hard work) and the product they make is pretty great, the price is acceptable and overall save for a sale the products reach you within the prescribed time under her business sheet. However companies such as KeraCare are already working to reach the market those online hair companies are servicing and if any other company is so stupid to underestimate their consumer they'll end up sending them right back into the waiting arms of companies who's products are cheap, easy to purchase and probably better.

Good luck to Afroveda but she should understand it's just business all around. Her desire to raise prices and take shortcuts unfortunately put her in a bad light and since her company isn't so profound to get away with it. Small companies succeed because they fill a niche bigger companies can't, by trying to emulate the business practices of those bigger than them they usually lose their initial customers (Carol's Daughter) or respect (Miss Jessie's). Just my 2 cents.

There are some inaccuracies here. People are reacting to shampoo and conditioner bases when these are industry standard anyway. Also if you've ever shopped for ingredients then you know they're not cheap - so the av products do not compare with bss products. If ingredients were cheap a majority of indie cosmetic maker businesses ... would not go out of business. And there are plenty of lhcf'ers past and present who can probably attest to racking up quite a tab while they were heavy into their ingredient shopping phase whether it was as a hobby or because they moved on into small business. The other thing is av might want to branch out to new customers - so they don't care about a little chat board fall out. After all it's an accomplishment to get your product talked about on chat boards - companies have to pay for internet buzz. If they cared about the possibility of fall out they might have offered smaller sizes as a compromise. The bottom line is people who truly like av are going to keep buying and those who can't/won't pay ten extra bucks will move on and find something else. As Joe Jackson said any publicity is good publicity so in the long run afroveda is happy for everyday their thread stays current on this board whether some people are angry or not.

 

[Kurlee]

good post!!! ^^^

 

[LittleLuxe]

There are some inaccuracies here. People are reacting to shampoo and conditioner bases when these are industry standard anyway.

Lol, I think it's been said more than once that's not all this is about.

Also if you've ever shopped for ingredients then you know they're not cheap - so the av products do not compare with bss products. If ingredients were cheap a majority of indie cosmetic maker businesses ... would not go out of business. And there are plenty of lhcf'ers past and present who can probably attest to racking up quite a tab while they were heavy into their ingredient shopping phase whether it was as a hobby or because they moved on into small business.

That doesn't quite explain how a smaller size of product is now worth even more expensive than the largest size they once sold, or why Afroveda did not plan for these increases the first time they raised prices or find another way to recoup costs. Also it's a little cheaper to buy ingredients in bulk than it is individually (I buy plenty from a number of websites) so...

The other thing is av might want to branch out to new customers - so they don't care about a little chat board fall out. After all it's an accomplishment to get your product talked about on chat boards - companies have to pay for internet buzz. If they cared about the possibility of fall out they might have offered smaller sizes as a compromise.

There's nothing wrong with that, although if that was her intention it does prove as others have stated she's not too up on smart business practices. The reality is she's going to have to pay for any outside attention or wait for a sudden big break. Unless she's ready to foot the bill she's going to have to rely on the business from chat boards and from what I've seen of the internet her business isn't exactly currently an online fav. Even Hairveda which has been featured in Essence and other publications still relies on the majority of it's sales from hairforums and hasn't gotten so popular you can mention it to the average black woman without her looking clueless.

Simply...you have to play it carefully even when trying to expand your business, especially in this economy.

The bottom line is people who truly like av are going to keep buying and those who can't/won't pay ten extra bucks will move on and find something else.

Exactly.

As Joe Jackson said any publicity is good publicity so in the long run afroveda is happy for everyday their thread stays current on this board whether some people are angry or not.

I think the 'even bad news is good news' idea just isn't true anymore. If I truly believed Afroveda was happy for the attention it was receiving regardless of the fact it was negative I doubt she would have sprung a 'Columbus Day Sale' immediately after raising prices, nor do I think she would have published a letter days after prices hit and not before. She's in damage control.

 

[davisbr88]

I think I might purchase some of the base and make Christmas presents for people out of it. Make little labels with their names on it and customize the scents to their liking.

That could be really cute!

This is OT but I LOVE this idea. I think I will do this for my mother, sister-in-law, and niece! Thanks for the great idea!

And thanks OP! Because now I know there are bases available for me to purchase cheap and in bulk so when I make my own stuff, I can have much more consistency and included preservatives. This is a great, and very informative thread.

 

[DDTexlaxed]

From the base thread on LHCF, it seems that making your own stuff can be complicated. Can someone post an easy recipe? Thanks in advance!

 

[BostonMaria]

From the base thread on LHCF, it seems that making your own stuff can be complicated. Can someone post an easy recipe? Thanks in advance!

It's not complicated at all. Especially if you buy the base. I pour oils, amino acids, a scent and guar gum to thicken it up. It's fun to experiment. Once I make a batch it can last me a month or two. It takes maybe 30 minutes start to finish.

 

[SimJam]

^^^^^oooh yeah .... tnx bostonmaria

sooooo excited

 

[BostonMaria]

^^^^^oooh yeah .... tnx bostonmaria

sooooo excited

You're welcome

I spent about $70 last year on oils, butters, guar gum, about 7 different fragrances, a pound of conditioner base, aloe vera juice, Ayurvedic oils and it's been 11 months and I still have so much stuff left. I make products all the time or at least use my oils in conditioners that I buy at the BSS. It's a great investment. If I want to buy from an online vendor I will. I've known about the bases for a while, but kept the info to myself cuz there's no sense in messing up somebody's hussle.

I think that Essential Wholesale is going to be my new BFF!

 

[SVT]

On Aubrey GPB's label they have 'Coconut Fatty Acid Cream Base' listed as the first ingredient. Old bottles had the actual ingredients of the base listed.

How do I found out what is in the base? Do we think more companies will list ingredients this way?

 

[justicefighter1913]

For the record, just about all of her conditioners are bases...

- Holy Basil, Coconut Moisture, & Neem - If you like these you can use this: http://www.ingredientstodiefor.com/i...category_id=53

- If you like the The Tea Tree and Lemon, Ylang, CinnaMint, B.A.R.E, and possibly the Ananda (???) conditioners, you can use these bases: Wholesale Bulk Hair Conditioner - Tea Tree 1 Gallon

Wholesale Bulk Aromatherapy+ Conditioner - Ylang and Ginger

Wholesale Bulk Aromatherapy+ Conditioner - Rosemary Mint 1 Gallon

Wholesale Bulk Conditioner - AromaFree® (Unscented) 1 gallon

Thanks for this girly!

 

[gadgetdiva]

On Aubrey GPB's label they have 'Coconut Fatty Acid Cream Base' listed as the first ingredient. Old bottles had the actual ingredients of the base listed.

How do I found out what is in the base? Do we think more companies will list ingredients this way?

Try here: Aubrey Organics Dictionary

 

[SVT]

Try here: Aubrey Organics Dictionary

Thank you. I read their glossary but it doesn't list the ingredients in order of concentration like the old label and I see they slipped some marketing buzz in their glossary. erplexed

COCONUT FATTY ACID CREAM BASE — Absorption base containing essential fatty acids, coconut fatty alcohols from palm kernels, aloe vera and vitamins A, C and E. Rich in linoleic and linolenic acids (vitamin F), excellent nutrients and skin conditioners. In hair care products, it is often combined with the important amino acids cysteine and methionine, which are high in sulfur and excellent for the hair and scalp.

 

[nissi]

Excellent thread ladies! Subscribing!!!

 

[LovinLocks]

For some reason, I'm not surprised about Hairveda. They do not claim their products to be completely natural and organic....although they do claim them to be handmade.

Sigh...I KNEW these companies didn't have the means and equipment to make some of these products by hand. At least Hairveda's products are reasonably priced. I will still patronize them as long as the prices stay low. I don't buy from any of those other companies.

ETA: I just noticed that Hairveda's site actually says "handcrafted" and not handmade :scratchch

Whoa, wait, now ya jumped from Afroveda to Hairveda. Let's keep the threads/posts straight. I got a call this a.m. and the person had it twisted. This thread originally started out about AFROveda yaw'll.

 

[DDTexlaxed]

Whoa, wait, now ya jumped from Afroveda to Hairveda. Let's keep the threads/posts straight. I got a call this a.m. and the person had it twisted. This thread originally started out about AFROveda yaw'll.

The point is more companies than Afroveda has committed this crime. Hairveda and apparently Aubrey Organics has also done this.

 

[Solitude]

Brendita's Body Works, Wonder Curl, Amourai Organique, HairVeda, Jasmine's Bath and Beauty...there are more.

Oh, and the the silica in AV's conditioners is apparently actually a cone in the base. The base ingredient says, "Dimethicone (from Silica), and she just chose to list silica...

...

EllePixie You were 100% right. Hairveda is one of my favorite companies, so I didn't want to believe it. But, I did some investigating today and found a product wholesale with the same name and same ingredients as a Hairveda product - EXACTLY the same - but Hairveda states on their site that they do not resale!

This is crazy!!!!