Are We To Blame? Online Vendors

MilkChocolateOne said:
I'm one and done for a serious offense. I have never ordered from hydro systems, honey handmade, and soultanicals and based on the customer service reviews and I never will. I don't understand how these companies have repeat customers. It's too many options available for me to reward bad customer service with repeat business.

If I have to file a PayPal claim or if you ignore my emails, you have lost me as a customer.
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I agree.

I have waited YEARS for a company to get it together and then circled back. Sometimes, its been good, sometimes bad.
You know what vendor amazes me....Tangles and Beyond.
 
I think 6 months is reasonable for a natural organic product. After 6 months it's chemical composition will have changed versus when it was still fresh. Oxidation occurs and there's nothing you can do to stop it without adding preservatives. Once anything organic is exposed to the elements, decay or decomposition begins.
Look at food. How long do fruits and veggies last after harvest without being frozen or sprayed with chemicals? Even after being refrigerated, mold begins to grow after a few days so it is in your best interests to eat it sooner than later.
If you are a product junkie, then you can't really blame a vendor for your impulses. Hair products are not a life and death purchase. If you bought 2 bottles on the Memorial day sale, it won't kill you to wait till Labor day sale to buy another 2 bottles instead of buying 6 bottles at a time and not being able to use it all in time and then complain when it all goes bad 6 months later.
As much as we prefer to blame vendors, some personal responsibility and fiduciary discipline is required so that you are not wasting your money.
 
okange76 said:
I think 6 months is reasonable for a natural organic product. After 6 months it's chemical composition will have changed versus when it was still fresh. Oxidation occurs and there's nothing you can do to stop it without adding preservatives. Once anything organic is exposed to the elements, decay or decomposition begins.
Look at food. How long do fruits and veggies last after harvest without being frozen or sprayed with chemicals? Even after being refrigerated, mold begins to grow after a few days so it is in your best interests to eat it sooner than later.
If you are a product junkie, then you can't really blame a vendor for your impulses. Hair products are not a life and death purchase. If you bought 2 bottles on the Memorial day sale, it won't kill you to wait till Labor day sale to buy another 2 bottles instead of buying 6 bottles at a time and not being able to use it all in time and then complain when it all goes bad 6 months later.
As much as we prefer to blame vendors, some personal responsibility and fiduciary discipline is required so that you are not wasting your money.
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This has nothing to do with being a product junkie. If I buy one item and it goes bad in 3 months, if it separated in 3 months , if after one use, my label smears, if i had an issue with my order process has nothing to do with being a PJ, its about customer service and online vendors.
 
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shawnyblazes said:
When is enough for you with a repeat vendor? How many benefits of the doubt do you give. Be honest now!
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For me, it depends on how the issue is handled. Like with Honeys Handmade, after a month of back and forth, she decided to ignore me and never send my product. I had to get my bank involved. I decided to make another purchase after that because out of my 50 million orders, I only had that one problem and my bank refunded the entire purchase amount since the damaged item was part of a bundle. I didn't like her attitude but I decided to forgive and forget. The last order arrived in a timely fashion with no spillage.

BUT seeing how she's acting with others recently, I will not be supporting her again. You are known for bad cs but people still give you the benefit of the doubt and what do you do? Continuously act a fool. No ma'am. Not on my dime.

So now I have new rules. One unresolved issue and I'm done. If I see people constantly complaining about you (I'm looking at you HQS) I'm never shopping with you. If I buy from you and there's constant mistakes that I have to wait for you to fix, I'm going to have to sideline you til you get your act together (or you have a good sale lol). Too many options out there for bad cs.
 
Hi Ladies!

I wanted to add some insight into the shelf life of natural products.

Most vendors are using the same preservatives in their water based formulations: Germall Plus, Germaben, etc. These preservatives are usually effective for 6-12 months depending on how the products are formulated (oils, butters emulsifiers vs. water ratios). However, I have had products last longer than that window of time. A lot of other factors come into play as it concerns shelf life of water based products, specifically exposure to extreme temperatures and how the product is stored. Also some of the more exotic oils and butters have shorter shelf lives. Smaller vendors such as myself typically don't have access to some of the more complex preservative systems. As smaller vendors branch out to retailers such as Target, they usually change their preservative systems to something that extends the shelf life further.

I don't personally believe that most vendors are purposely creating products to have shorter shelf lives. One of the worst things that could happen and is probably every vendor's fear is for a product to spoil once it has been sold to a customer.

HTH,

Erica
 
Miss Kane said:
Hi Ladies!

I wanted to add some insight into the shelf life of natural products.

Most vendors are using the same preservatives in their water based formulations: Germall Plus, Germaben, etc. These preservatives are usually effective for 6-12 months depending on how the products are formulated (oils, butters emulsifiers vs. water ratios). However, I have had products last longer than that window of time. A lot of other factors come into play as it concerns shelf life of water based products, specifically exposure to extreme temperatures and how the product is stored. Also some of the more exotic oils and butters have shorter shelf lives. Smaller vendors such as myself typically don't have access to some of the more complex preservative systems. As smaller vendors branch out to retailers such as Target, they usually change their preservative systems to something that extends the shelf life further.

I don't personally believe that most vendors are purposely creating products to have shorter shelf lives. One of the worst things that could happen and is probably every vendor's fear is for a product to spoil once it has been sold to a customer.

HTH,

Erica
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This is what I kind of expected. It will be interesting to see the newer lines longevity
 
@okange76
I never really have products go bad on me and if they do (or have), they've arrived that way from the Seller. I've more of a consistency issue rather than a shelf-life issue.

Buying multiples (or back ups) happens to be more economically feasible for me especially during a good sale.

As long as they are unopened and stored properly, I personally, have never had a problem.
 
Anything in its most natural pure form with no additions will not last long. Even the hair on your head if left alone with no additions will not last long. If you just keep washing it and leaving it as is in its most natural form, it will eventually become brittle or matted and break off. In the case of vendors, it is a matter of trial and error. Everything with them is gambling with your pockets.

The best option IMO is to make the products yourself. That is the only way you can have total control over everything to the best of your satisfaction. All the ingredients in natural and organic products can be purchased separately and mixed by you in your home. They are readily available online and in stores. At least that way you minimize the level of disappointment if something does not work for you.
 
If I choose to buy a product that you, as a business owner, claims will last 6 months, it needs to last at least 6 months. I'm not trying to hear all those excuses. Period. Honor your word, replace the product or refund my money. But consumers are not to blame because they choose to buy handmade.
 
okange76 said:
In the case of vendors, it is a matter of trial and error. Everything with them is gambling with your pockets.
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That's exactly why I don't bother with any online handmade vendors. How are you going in business and trying to do your R&D off the back of your customers? No. ...and then have the nerve to have poor customer service. :down:

I'm sure there are a few good ones out there, but I'm not willing to take the risk.
 
I'd really like to hear what other on-liners have to say about these different subjects.:supergrin:

So Imma call some in here:laugh::

@curlyhersheygirl @Shay72 @Froreal3 @NaturallyATLPCH @CeeLex33 @Beamodel @Rastafarai @Beany @Rozlewis @trclemons @Golden75 @MileHighDiva @divachyk @flyygirlll2 @imaginary @Aggie @caliscurls @Saludable84 @prettyinpurple @ms.blue @meka72 @BrownBetty @myronnie @Anaisin @AgeinATL @JulietWhiskey @IronButterfly @PJaye

I know I didn't grab everybody, but all the rest of the on-line Crew. What are your answers to some of these questions?
 
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I am done with all the buying because of all the issues that people have stated so far. I can honestly deal with wait time, as long as you tell me. What I can't deal with is product going bad. That happened to me with Anabelle's products before 3 months and of me using them consistently, every single product went bad, I am sorry to say....a total of 2 creams and 2 butters. I was shocked as she has great reviews and I finally jumped in and brought some stuff around Black Friday. Received products around mid December by early February everything was bad. I had to throw them out. Total waste. I am not bad mouthing her products but I will not be re-buying. I am just happy that I was not out by too much. She wasn't the only one, I have had Soultanical's go bad (but she has fixed that problem, and I am a happy camper with her products), Qhemet's has gone bad (she has fixed it as well), and Alikay's shea butter has gone bad (actually brought the product back to Target the same day, it was bad on the shelf).
I do believe the way I was buying was bad as well and I have changed my ways. I buy 1-2 products at a time now. I don't stock up, I go by how often I use the products. An 8oz butter will last, so buying 4-6 butters at a time is not ideal, they will go bad unless you are using them all at the same time, and that would be overkill. Because of products going bad, my PJ'ism has very much curtailed itself. I am a happy camper. Also, staying away from any new company that has a bad track record. To me businesses should have gotten this natural product "ish" under control by now. Since they have not, I am buying more responsibly when it comes to natural hair care products these days. And my hair has been fine.
 
Only person I ever ordered from is Njoy, twice and Komaza Care once. I just head to the salon every Saturday for a $25 wash, treatment and set. All the other stuff I use I get from Sally's, Whole Foods or Ulta. I'm too impatient to order stuff online. I'm not that particular about being organic.

IDareT'sHair said:
@okange76
Do you do much on-line ordering? Or do you DIY or buy most of your products OTG?
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Let me just start by saying that I'm new at buying and using handmade products but I'm not new to purchasing my products online. I was always wary of buying hand made products because I live in a very hot and extremely humid, tropical climate - The Bahamas! So handmade products, I always ran away from until recently. I ordered from a few vendors, ie, SSI, CRN, QB, Bekura, DB, MHC, NG, APB, ST, and of course HQS. I'm happy to say that 98% of my experience with these vendors has been awesome, with the exception of the one with HQS, which sucked by the way.

I have to tell ya though, if my initial experience with purchasing handmade products had been with HQS, I would not even have glanced in the others' direction. That was the worst poor customer service experience I have ever had the misfortune to go through and I would not wish it on my worst enemy. I don't like it when I give a merchant my money in exchange for goods and services and I get the cold shoulders. That has been my experience with HQS. She will never get another red copper from me, I don't care how great her products are. I don't care if her products would make me want to go and kiss the moon and risk scorching burns from hugging the sun, It.Will.Never.Happen!

I prefer sub par goods from a merchant who will move the moon and the sun to please their customers if they stood in her way. That I can live with. I can support someone with the right attitude and help them through the hurdles they face in their business, especially at the start up of that business.

Now in reference to the shelf life of a product, if anyone would have an issue with the shelf life of a handmade product, it would be me because of where I live. I mean I am surrounded by water, water in the sea and water in the air, water everywhere. I know these products are very sensitive to getting contaminated and I make it a point never to apply them to my hair in the shower and I don't use my fingers to dip in jars. I use a spoon to scoop out the product I will use because I don't want to risk contaminating my products. Plus I use products in a rotation type way, ie, what I open, I use until finished, then I move on to another product. Opening and using multiple handmade products all the same time is asking for trouble, so I avoid that as best I could.
 
Pre-shipment should only take a day, maybe 2 at most. I never understand how some companies hold shipments in a "pre" status for 4 and 5+ days and then wonder why they get so many status inquiries SMH.

Where do I draw the line? Really depends on the issue- a vendor that exceeds their shipping expectations wouldn't deter me, I'd order again as long as it isn't too excessive. If I wait FOREVER and have missing/incorrect items/spillage and everything is handled to my satisfaction- I may reorder down the line but honestly I wouldn't revisit at least in the short term. I'm not interested in mixing my own products etc. not that there is anything wrong with that. I use my healthy hair journey as an opportunity to pamper myself, so for me- part of the fun is trying new products and ordering online is my little vice. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that products will last 12 months being a product junkie or not.

In the last 7 years I have only had 4 major issues with online vendors- 1 of those went out of business, the other one is on my NEVER list and the last 2 I actually do order from again.
 
CeeLex33 said:
I'm not interested in mixing my own products etc. not that there is anything wrong with that. I use my healthy hair journey as an opportunity to pamper myself, so for me- part of the fun is trying new products and ordering online is my little vice. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that products will last 12 months being a product junkie or not.
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@CeeLex33

:notworthy: This is me all day long. Great Post!
 
I don't use handmade anymore due to all the reasons previously stated. And quite frankly, I don't trust them anymore. The secrecy/vagueness of the ingredients is what did it for me. I'm very particular when it comes to my hair and I'm not going to take a gamble with something made by a self-proclaimed mixtress. I went back to using salon products and it was the best decision ever. If I want an oil or butter mix, I get my ingredients from our local farmers market and mix it myself.
 
Today I'm heading out to pick up my HQS and Netwurks 21 package from the courier. You want to hear me scream all the way from the Bahamas? Let that heifer get my order wrong. Cover your ears ladies, because if my order is wrong - you will hear me squeal like a ban-chi (sp?)
 
thickness said:
I don't use handmade anymore due to all the reasons previously stated. And quite frankly, I don't trust them anymore. The secrecy/vagueness of the ingredients is what did it for me. I'm very particular when it comes to my hair and I'm not going to take a gamble with something made by a self-proclaimed mixtress. I went back to using salon products and it was the best decision ever. If I want an oil or butter mix, I get my ingredients from our local farmers market and mix it myself.
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@thickness what salon products are you using ?
 
@shawnyblazes
I think one of my biggest problems with Handmade/Natural On-Line Purchases is probably the Shipping Costs.

Honestly, I'd like to buy from a few others, but they can't get those shipping costs to a reasonable amount.

Shipping Costs keeps me from trying more. I'm the "Queen" of mock-carts, and I do a lot of "Swaps" so I know what reasonable shipping looks like.

Your Thoughts on this subject?
 
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