Are Type 4 Naturals Ignored?

[kxlot79]

I have a sorta unpopular opinion. A lot of people reference Anyhony Dickey’s method for amazing Type 4 WnGs. But people leave out the part where he recommends redoing them every 2-3 days. I personally have had the best results redoing mine every day or every other day. Some people are blessed to be able to successfully WnG with multiple methods and choose whichever is easiest/most convenient for the result (like me); and others will only be able to get “wearable” results with a few (or ONE) method/combination of products.
If you aren’t having success with one method, as a type 4, you’d have to go through a variety of others if you were committed to mastering YOUR WnG. Like the video I shared upthread, it doesn’t NEED a million steps and hours to look good. Maybe yours would, but maybe not.
When I do a conditioner & oil WnG, I have to redo 1-3 days later or I’ll have problems.
Some hair types can’t have multi-day WnGs without problems. Sorry. Facts.
The video I shared (and a lot of the most popular Type 4 YTers) have natural(s)with hair in good or even great condition. Jaleesa keeps her hair pretty moisturized and from what I can see well taken care of. If your hair never really DRIES OUT, it’s a lot easier to remoisturize. A lot of tangling comes from dryness (also split ends, which often come from dryness), and moisturized hair is much easier to detangle. It also holds a better shape and has more elongation in a WnG. The longer your hair is loose and flapping in the elements, the higher the likelihood that it will dry out. No matter what products you use.
Just spritzing a WnG daily only works for some people. Others find themselves losing definition, having more tangles, or worse.
Some people ruffle at the amount of product used, but you often use a lot less as your technique improves and your hair gets into better condition. Plus, you can eventually transition to less expensive products as your WnG gets better without sacrificing good results.
I have personally and professionally seen WnGs do dramatic things to hair. Not only that, but the length and thicknesses of hair, along with products and techniques and tools, can make dramatic differences too. For more people than not, I’m convinced WnGs aren’t as hard as people make them out to be.

 

[Alma Petra]

She needs a shape up, BADLY. Ok, soapbox.....I'm sick of seeing naturals on youtube who refuse to shape their hair. It's just not a good look. I refuse to recommend instagrams or youtubers to anyone with textured hair when there's no shape to it. If your hair has no texture (not in the 3s or 4s), then it's really not of interest to me.

She has great definition! She does need a shape though. I don't think that people exactly refuse to get a shape but many don't recognize its aesthetic importance. It can be a total transformation. And you probably won't lose a lot of length because at least your longest layers will be maintained.

 

[Alma Petra]

@Alma Petra your hair is wonderfully shiny. Are your coils wet or dry in this pic? Your definition is popping. With the amount of practice you get in with your twa section, by the time you are ready to do your whole head, you will be a pro with the wng with thin clumps/ thick clumps etc. I think your current methods are yielding great results.

Thank you dear! My hair is dry here. This is after diffusing and before SOTCing. I think the shine must be due to the KCCC plus the moisture. KCCC is the shiniest gel I have ever tried.

I am really working on getting the hang of the wash and go and figuring out why sometimes I get such good definition. I want it to be something consistent. There are also other aspects to perfect: the amount of gel and leave-in to use to get good results yet avoid the white flakes/spots, and learning how to get the perfect size of clumps. Bigger clumps look too chunky and suppress the volume and the amount of root lift.

BTW I love your hair, your length, your definition and your vibrant unique color!

 

[GGsKin]

Thank you dear! My hair is dry here. This is after diffusing and before SOTCing. I think the shine must be due to the KCCC plus the moisture. KCCC is the shiniest gel I have ever tried.

I am really working on getting the hang of the wash and go and figuring out why sometimes I get such good definition. I want it to be something consistent. There are also other aspects to perfect: the amount of gel and leave-in to use to get good results yet avoid the white flakes/spots, and learning how to get the perfect size of clumps. Bigger clumps look too chunky and suppress the volume and the amount of root lift.

BTW I love your hair, your length, your definition and your vibrant unique color!

Amazing! I know you are currently battling through/ overcoming a setback but your hair is looking really good. You will have this down in no time! (I think you've got it already but I understand the perfectionism).

Between doing MHM and then coming out of it, I (loosely) documented how my hair reacted/ behaved well over 100 wash cycles. With various gels, conditioners, ayurveda etc. So for some it can take a lot of experimenting. KCCC used to take an days to dry on my ear length hair. When it did it was sticky and would flake on me. Experimenting with diluting the product made everything better; faster drying, less tacky to the touch, no flakes and same hold.

Thank you for the compliment. I enjoy henna but I have to do it rarely now to avoid straightening, even though I don't smooth it on (I squeeze it).

 

[MizzBFly]

Ok. These are not in any kind of order but I think they were all mostly dry (none are day 1). Pic.5 has damp roots, as does Pic.4 (at least in the middle). Overload coming up in..

3.......



2.....


1...View attachment 426564 View attachment 426566

Awe snap here we go, y’all come through with pics!!
@AbsyBlvd We need the front pics for that juicy side braid with a ponytail

 

[GGsKin]

Awe snap here we go, y’all come through with pics!!
@AbsyBlvd We need the front pics for that juicy side braid with a ponytail

Hey! @MizzBFly You know I don't mind coming through with pics lol. I think I have a front pic somewhere (Pic.1). Funnily enough I posted a newer versions of the same style in the Everyday Hair thread. I just do the same styles over and over smh. Closer, it looks like Pic.2 from the front but in the original, I braided fuller (with less tension on the braid) and the braids meet instead of going back into the ponytail. I don't know how to link posts on my phone.

 

[MizzBFly]

Hmmm but what about the diameter of the zigzags? They must be a certain size hence why you call it 4b not 4a or 4c.
I am very curious to see your curls/zigzags and what they do when you do a wash n go. Do you wear wash and goes often?

I agree on on the size of the curl/bend to determine the letter in the type 4 family but we’re not using any references for classification right?
@charmtreese has posted pics of twists that leaves out the last inch to curl on their own. I noticed since I do the same at least two inches are left out on my twist to properly moisturize.
....sorry for jumping in mid-question but I love these discussions we’re having

 

[Alma Petra]

Amazing! I know you are currently battling through/ overcoming a setback but your hair is looking really good. You will have this down in no time! (I think you've got it already but I understand the perfectionism).

Between doing MHM and then coming out of it, I (loosely) documented how my hair reacted/ behaved well over 100 wash cycles. With various gels, conditioners, ayurveda etc. So for some it can take a lot of experimenting. KCCC used to take an days to dry on my ear length hair. When it did it was sticky and would flake on me. Experimenting with diluting the product made everything better; faster drying, less tacky to the touch, no flakes and same hold.

Thank you for the compliment. I enjoy henna but I have to do it rarely now to avoid straightening, even though I don't smooth it on (I squeeze it).

Fingers crossed, sis. I can't wait until I get this consistently right. Thanks for your kind words.
You documented 100+ experiments! That's very impressive. A lot of effort and discipline and the results speak for themselves!
I read that you use hibiscus too and I'm thinking of trying it on its own to see if it can leave any color deposit. I'd love for my hair to have the color of hibiscus and maybe it will not have the same straightening effects as henna.

 

[Alma Petra]

I agree on on the size of the curl/bend to determine the letter in the type 4 family but we’re not using any references for classification right?
@charmtreese has posted pics of twists that leaves out the last inch to curl on their own. I noticed since I do the same at least two inches are left out on my twist to properly moisturize.
....sorry for jumping in mid-question but I love these discussions we’re having

Lol you guys let me come up with a new haphazard classification for you and let's call it the LHCF classification. In this classification, for example:

• 4c can be anything between 0-3 mm in diameter be it a curl, a wave, a coil or a zigzag.
• 4b is say beween 4 mm to 6 mm.
• 4a between 7 and 10 mm.
• And anything more than 10 mm should be considered in the 3 range.

Of course you may argue that these numbers are too big or too small, but you will have to present your contradictory evidence

Is this photo of your hair or of @charmtreese ? Yes I can see the curls at the end. I think that they probably reflect something about one's natural curl pattern, and what your diameter might be like if you define your curls.

 

[GGsKin]

@Alma Petra Happy experimenting to you.

I am obsessed lol. I was my own guinea pig so I made sure I took notes. Just the other week I was catching up on the Curly Proverbs Inspired thread. I think I read in there that both @Saludable84 and @Aggie mentioned using rose petal powder and/ or hibiscus without henna did leave some kind of stain on the hair.

 

[Saludable84]

@Alma Petra Happy experimenting to you.

I am obsessed lol. I was my own guinea pig so I made sure I took notes. Just the other week I was catching up on the Curly Proverbs Inspired thread. I think I read in there that both @Saludable84 and @Aggie mentioned using rose petal powder and/ or hibiscus without henna did leave some kind of stain on the hair.

Yeah.... I believe I noticed it after using hibiscus. It’s not obvious. It was seen in the light and not unpleasant, but if you do not like stain, avoid it.

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

I have a sorta unpopular opinion. A lot of people reference Anyhony Dickey’s method for amazing Type 4 WnGs. But people leave out the part where he recommends redoing them every 2-3 days. I personally have had the best results redoing mine every day or every other day. Some people are blessed to be able to successfully WnG with multiple methods and choose whichever is easiest/most convenient for the result (like me); and others will only be able to get “wearable” results with a few (or ONE) method/combination of products.
If you aren’t having success with one method, as a type 4, you’d have to go through a variety of others if you were committed to mastering YOUR WnG. Like the video I shared upthread, it doesn’t NEED a million steps and hours to look good. Maybe yours would, but maybe not.
When I do a conditioner & oil WnG, I have to redo 1-3 days later or I’ll have problems.
Some hair types can’t have multi-day WnGs without problems. Sorry. Facts.
The video I shared (and a lot of the most popular Type 4 YTers) have natural(s)with hair in good or even great condition. Jaleesa keeps her hair pretty moisturized and from what I can see well taken care of. If your hair never really DRIES OUT, it’s a lot easier to remoisturize. A lot of tangling comes from dryness (also split ends, which often come from dryness), and moisturized hair is much easier to detangle. It also holds a better shape and has more elongation in a WnG. The longer your hair is loose and flapping in the elements, the higher the likelihood that it will dry out. No matter what products you use.
Just spritzing a WnG daily only works for some people. Others find themselves losing definition, having more tangles, or worse.
Some people ruffle at the amount of product used, but you often use a lot less as your technique improves and your hair gets into better condition. Plus, you can eventually transition to less expensive products as your WnG gets better without sacrificing good results.
I have personally and professionally seen WnGs do dramatic things to hair. Not only that, but the length and thicknesses of hair, along with products and techniques and tools, can make dramatic differences too. For more people than not, I’m convinced WnGs aren’t as hard as people make them out to be.

Great post!

Lol. I was just watching Dickie's latest YT video. He talked about doing daily wng's. I was like ?!?? He based the logic on preventing dryness. The comments were interesting.

I'm currently getting the best wash and go's of life. SSKs are at a minimum. My hair is not tangling. Definition lasts 7+ days. I love the look and low maintenance. My only issue: The awesome-performing gel makes my hair feel dry. So I'm trying to solve that issue.

It has taken me years to figure out the product and technique combo that yields these results. Like you said: I had to find what works for MY wash and go's.

I hope I can grow my hair out via wng's like some of my favorite YouTubers have. If it doesn't work, I'll concede and largely let them go. For now, I'm thinking I might be able to live and grow in wngs.

 

[Karmi]

I disagree with Anthony Dickie on daily restyle of wng for type 4s. That would defeat the purpose of it being a low maipulation style.
For me personally, I keep my hair moisturized by spritzing every morning with a mix of water, AVG and glycerin (less glycerin in the winter months). This also helps to wake up my curls and create big bouncy hair as the week goes on.

It takes a lot of time and effort but you have to keep at it with perfecting your wng technique for YOUR hair.

 

[Alma Petra]

I think it's only logical that you will have to wash more frequently if your hair becomes dry quickly and cannot be refreshed. But if you can go a few days in between washes with your hair still moisturized and looking good, then there will be no point in washing more frequently. In fact many people look for products that can keep their hair moisturized longer and give them second, third and even 7th day hair if possible because that way it's less manipulation for the hair and less hassle for the lady.

But if doing daily wash and goes is going to elevate my moisture levels in the long run and allow me to decrease the frequency of washing later on that would be a very useful thing to do.

 

[charmtreese]

I agree on on the size of the curl/bend to determine the letter in the type 4 family but we’re not using any references for classification right?
@charmtreese has posted pics of twists that leaves out the last inch to curl on their own. I noticed since I do the same at least two inches are left out on my twist to properly moisturize.
....sorry for jumping in mid-question but I love these discussions we’re having

I honestly try to twist all the way to the end, if not my ends will create knots. I do have a section in the back that does have an irregular wave pattern (which I made a thread about).

 

[charmtreese]

Lol you guys let me come up with a new haphazard classification for you and let's call it the LHCF classification. In this classification, for example:

• 4c can be anything between 0-3 mm in diameter be it a curl, a wave, a coil or a zigzag.
• 4b is say beween 4 mm to 6 mm.
• 4a between 7 and 10 mm.
• And anything more than 10 mm should be considered in the 3 range.

Of course you may argue that these numbers are too big or too small, but you will have to present your contradictory evidence

Is this photo of your hair or of @charmtreese ? Yes I can see the curls at the end. I think that they probably reflect something about one's natural curl pattern, and what your diameter might be like if you define your curls.

That’s not my hair...but it’s pretty. For some reason I’m unable to attach a pic...but I’ve posted pictures all throughout lhcf

 

[charmtreese]

Also, a big issue for my hair is that 1 strand can have numerous different bends and turns at different points. Therefore throwing the whole diameter thing out the window for me. My strands are about 18-19 inches long and there is zero patterns on the majority of them. However, this summer I’m willing to try a wng and if I can create any resemblance of consistency, I will be all throughout this thread with pics.

 

[GGsKin]

Also, a big issue for my hair is that 1 strand can have numerous different bends and turns at different points. Therefore throwing the whole diameter thing out the window for me. My strands are about 18-19 inches long and there is zero patterns on the majority of them. However, this summer I’m willing to try a wng and if I can create any resemblance of consistency, I will be all throughout this thread with pics.

I'll be here ready for the pictures like
I love your hair. You and your twists always look gorgeous. I want mine to look like that when my hair grows up lol. I'm sure you've got some pattern there. Sometimes it just takes a little repetition and a good gel to coax them together.

 

[charmtreese]

Ends of twist....it’s hard to see...but pretty much twisted to the end.
Irregular wavy hair in the back. Which also has less shrinkage...so I fear having a mullet wng. The majority of my hair is like the hair that’s in my hands. I can’t post the pic of that hair, having upload difficulties....but that hair shrinks a lot more...plus has no pattern, just zigzags.

 

[GGsKin]

View attachment 426624 Ends of twist....it’s hard to see...but pretty much twisted to the end.
View attachment 426626 Irregular wavy hair in the back. Which also has less shrinkage...so I fear having a mullet wng. The majority of my hair is like the hair that’s in my hands. I can’t post the pic of that hair, having upload difficulties....but that hair shrinks a lot more...plus has no pattern, just zigzags.

Have/do you ever use clay?

 

[Aggie]

@Alma Petra Happy experimenting to you.

I am obsessed lol. I was my own guinea pig so I made sure I took notes. Just the other week I was catching up on the Curly Proverbs Inspired thread. I think I read in there that both @Saludable84 and @Aggie mentioned using rose petal powder and/ or hibiscus without henna did leave some kind of stain on the hair.

Yeah.... I believe I noticed it after using hibiscus. It’s not obvious. It was seen in the light and not unpleasant, but if you do not like stain, avoid it.

Yeah, what @Saludable84 said sums it up nicely

 

[charmtreese]

Have/do you ever use clay?

Yes, I use terressentails clay wash every wash day.

 

[justNikki]

She has great definition! She does need a shape though. I don't think that people exactly refuse to get a shape but many don't recognize its aesthetic importance. It can be a total transformation. And you probably won't lose a lot of length because at least your longest layers will be maintained.

A lot of naturals are so length obsessed that the fear of losing ANY length makes a shape up out of the question. I agree, it would take so many heads from blah to fire so fast!

 

[GGsKin]

Yes, I use terressentails clay wash every wash day.

How do you use this? Do you saturate your hair with it so that all of your hair hangs heavy? Or just massage into your scalp?

I've never used a premixxed clay on my hair but I know those bottles are not very big. I checked out an old Naptural85 vid and saw that she was only applying the product to her scalp.

 

[snoop]

How do you use this? Do you saturate your hair with it so that all of your hair hangs heavy? Or just massage into your scalp?

I've never used a premixxed clay on my hair but I know those bottles are not very big. I checked out an old Naptural85 vid and saw that she was only applying the product to her scalp.

I'm not sure how long it would last in my hair now, but when I first started made a shift to a healthy hair routine a bottle would last me up to 6 months. I had a TWA, though. I would love to try this stuff again and compare it to just mixing it myself now that I know what I look for in products. (They stopped selling it in Canada due to labeling issues.)

 

[Omooba]

my hair gets tangled after day 1 of wash and go so i'd rather not.

 

[LavenderMint]

Well.
TIL that Anthony Dickey has a YouTube channel.
I haven’t seen the video referenced above yet but the only issue I could see with a daily wash and go regimen is that it might not be good for high porosity hair. I would feel the need to balance the constant wetting with protein heavy styling products. Maybe I’ll feel different after seeing his vid but I dunno.

 

[Ipanema]

Lol you guys let me come up with a new haphazard classification for you and let's call it the LHCF classification. In this classification, for example:

• 4c can be anything between 0-3 mm in diameter be it a curl, a wave, a coil or a zigzag.
• 4b is say beween 4 mm to 6 mm.
• 4a between 7 and 10 mm.
• And anything more than 10 mm should be considered in the 3 range.

For 4b, diameter doesn't really apply because the hair often does not form circles and coils to measure a line across. A strand can be like a squiggly line, a zig-zag line, a line with a scroll at the end, and other types of lines. It shrinks up, but there are no uniform curls all over to measure. Sometimes there are straight pieces. All of this can be happening on one head of hair.

AAAAAAAAAP/2Q==

AAAAAAAAAP/2Q==

 

[GreenEyedJen]

^^^I understand the concept of an individual hair strand having different patterns (I have it myself) but considering the shape of the hair follicle determines the strand pattern, it doesn’t make full sense to me. A strand should have a pattern, regardless of how many inches it takes for the pattern to repeat itself.

I think that’s probably why I never cared much about hair typing anyway; I always looked at the length of a pattern over the diameter of one.

 

[Ipanema]

^^^I understand the concept of an individual hair strand having different patterns (I have it myself) but considering the shape of the hair follicle determines the strand pattern, it doesn’t make full sense to me. A strand should have a pattern, regardless of how many inches it takes for the pattern to repeat itself.

I think that’s probably why I never cared much about hair typing anyway; I always looked at the length of a pattern over the diameter of one.

If it is determined by the follicle, then I don't understand how it happens, either. Out of curiosity, I put one of my longer strands of shed hair in a cup of water to see what it would do. I left it in there for 10 minutes. At the bulb, it was straight for about a half inch, then it was a wavy line for an inch and a half, then the rest turned into irregular coils like a broken slinky.