YvetteWithJoy
On break
Here we go
The last one was from 3/10
You are beautiful!
@Alma Petra, are your coils the same size as this?
Are Type 4 Naturals Ignored?
- Thread starter lexi84
- Start date
You are beautiful!
@Alma Petra, are your coils the same size as this?
kxlot79
Kitchen Mixtress
It’s literally a high ponytail pushed off to a 60 degree angle and secured with 2 regular Goody black snagless elastic bands.Freshly cleansed hair, leave in or moisturizer, a lighter hold styler (usually foam or a custard), and often a bit of oil on top. Gather into the ponytail I want, smooth with my hands, once it’s smooth and taut, mist my head with water and go over lightly with one side of a soft boar bristle brush. Shake. Do a lil arrangement where it falls how I want. Voila!
If I can be perfectly honest, the pics I shared were lazy WnGs. They take me 10 minutes or less to do from start to finish. To get super definition on my hair takes 30 minutes to an hour and I spend a lot more time and product smoothing my roots because they’re the thickest, puffiest, least defined part of my hair. So to circumvent alladat I just put my hair in one or 2 ponytails. Lol
I actually wear my hair most often in 2 ponytails because the takedown and longevity is so much better and I get way more hang time...
Thanks hon... we still waiting for a breakdown on that WnG side pony tho
MizzBFly
Well-Known Member
You are beautiful!
Thanks @YvetteWithJoyyou’re absolutely gorgeous
YvetteWithJoy
On break
Thanks! That's very kind!
MizzBFly
Well-Known Member
Niiiice you’re ponytails are lush with lots of hang time
Freshly cleansed hair, leave in or moisturizer, a lighter hold styler (usually foam or a custard), and often a bit of oil on top. Gather into the ponytail I want, smooth with my hands, once it’s smooth and taut, mist my head with water and go over lightly with one side of a soft boar bristle brush. Shake. Do a lil arrangement where it falls how I want. Voila!
If I can be perfectly honest, the pics I shared were lazy WnGs. They take me 10 minutes or less to do from start to finish. To get super definition on my hair takes 30 minutes to an hour and I spend a lot more time and product smoothing my roots because they’re the thickest, puffiest, least defined part of my hair. So to circumvent alladat I just put my hair in one or 2 ponytails. Lol
I actually wear my hair most often in 2 ponytails because the takedown and longevity is so much better and I get way more hang time...
View attachment 426960
Is that due to you’re consistency with WnG that your hair hangs better? My hair elongates while damp but slowly shrinks as it dries
kxlot79
Kitchen Mixtress
My professional and personal experiences have made me a believer in Maximum Hydration. (Like the MHM.) I think the consistency of GOOD results is what optimizes your WnG. So the more often I do WnG, the better they get. Like, to the point where I can shampoo and my hair is in perfect coils from root to tip (FRESHLY SHAMPOO’d, before conditioner!!!
) But it takes time and consistency to get there. I think the drier/tighter/longer your hair, the more it will take to reach that moisture saturation point.
So, the short answer: Yes, I get better hang time with more consistency. When your hair is full of moisture, the bit of moisture the atmosphere may draw out doesn’t cause as much massive shrinkage, and the weight of water and products helps it keep its elongated shape. (That pic is from last summer and I was WnG pretty much multiple times a week for 3+months. I had some hard knocks and that caused me to fall into a spiral of loose hair neglect and that caused a setback of 6+ inches... but the setback wasn’t WnGs. It was neglect.)
I personally think dry hair is the most gravity defying, but I know some hair legitimately grows vertically no matter how moisturized. My experiences just don’t bear out that vertical hair is as common as people wanna believe.
I mean, too, my hair in that curly fro is BSL but when I’ve cut my hair back to BSL, I can’t get it to stick out like that unless I manipulate it to kingdom come or let it dry out badly (and risk damaging it).
) But it takes time and consistency to get there. I think the drier/tighter/longer your hair, the more it will take to reach that moisture saturation point.So, the short answer: Yes, I get better hang time with more consistency. When your hair is full of moisture, the bit of moisture the atmosphere may draw out doesn’t cause as much massive shrinkage, and the weight of water and products helps it keep its elongated shape. (That pic is from last summer and I was WnG pretty much multiple times a week for 3+months. I had some hard knocks and that caused me to fall into a spiral of loose hair neglect and that caused a setback of 6+ inches... but the setback wasn’t WnGs. It was neglect.)
I personally think dry hair is the most gravity defying, but I know some hair legitimately grows vertically no matter how moisturized. My experiences just don’t bear out that vertical hair is as common as people wanna believe.
I mean, too, my hair in that curly fro is BSL but when I’ve cut my hair back to BSL, I can’t get it to stick out like that unless I manipulate it to kingdom come or let it dry out badly (and risk damaging it).
Niiiice you’re ponytails are lush with lots of hang time
GreenEyedJen
Well-Known Member
My professional and personal experiences have made me a believer in Maximum Hydration. (Like the MHM.) I think the consistency of GOOD results is what optimizes your WnG. So the more often I do WnG, the better they get. Like, to the point where I can shampoo and my hair is in perfect coils from root to tip (FRESHLY SHAMPOO’d, before conditioner!!!
So, the short answer: Yes, I get better hang time with more consistency. When your hair is full of moisture, the bit of moisture the atmosphere may draw out doesn’t cause as much massive shrinkage, and the weight of water and products helps it keep its elongated shape. (That pic is from last summer and I was WnG pretty much multiple times a week for 3+months. I had some hard knocks and that caused me to fall into a spiral of loose hair neglect and that caused a setback of 6+ inches... but the setback wasn’t WnGs. It was neglect.)
I personally think dry hair is the most gravity defying, but I know some hair legitimately grows vertically no matter how moisturized. My experiences just don’t bear out that vertical hair is as common as people wanna believe.
I mean, too, my hair in that curly fro is BSL but when I’ve cut my hair back to BSL, I can’t get it to stick out like that unless I manipulate it to kingdom come or let it dry out badly (and risk damaging it).
MAJOR KEY ALERT!
All of this is my experience, as well. I don't do the MHM "method" (and I'm thinking you don't actually, either, @kxlot79, correct?) but I believe in the concept. No way can I make my hair stand straight/out like it used to when I first became natural. The weight of my hair is very light--I barely feel it when it's straightened; that should translate to really airy, light curls, too. My curls are light in feel, but they hang. When I first started on my journey, I predicted I'd have to have much more hair than I have to have the hang that I do--and honestly, if I treated it badly, continued to bleach it, and not work with my texture, I probably would have.
I don't think I realized this until I'd reached MHM, or close to it. It's much easier to do my hair now.
MizzBFly
Well-Known Member
Thank You!!!... I do remember Max Hydration Method, Pinky and BHM- the results were awesome I was transitioning at the time. I found my love of clay from that trying that out & the cherry Lola treatment as wellMy professional and personal experiences have made me a believer in Maximum Hydration. (Like the MHM.) I think the consistency of GOOD results is what optimizes your WnG. So the more often I do WnG, the better they get. Like, to the point where I can shampoo and my hair is in perfect coils from root to tip (FRESHLY SHAMPOO’d, before conditioner!!!
So, the short answer: Yes, I get better hang time with more consistency. When your hair is full of moisture, the bit of moisture the atmosphere may draw out doesn’t cause as much massive shrinkage, and the weight of water and products helps it keep its elongated shape. (That pic is from last summer and I was WnG pretty much multiple times a week for 3+months. I had some hard knocks and that caused me to fall into a spiral of loose hair neglect and that caused a setback of 6+ inches... but the setback wasn’t WnGs. It was neglect.)
I personally think dry hair is the most gravity defying, but I know some hair legitimately grows vertically no matter how moisturized. My experiences just don’t bear out that vertical hair is as common as people wanna believe.
I mean, too, my hair in that curly fro is BSL but when I’ve cut my hair back to BSL, I can’t get it to stick out like that unless I manipulate it to kingdom come or let it dry out badly (and risk damaging it).
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GGsKin
Well-Known Member
My professional and personal experiences have made me a believer in Maximum Hydration. (Like the MHM.) I think the consistency of GOOD results is what optimizes your WnG. So the more often I do WnG, the better they get. Like, to the point where I can shampoo and my hair is in perfect coils from root to tip (FRESHLY SHAMPOO’d, before conditioner!!!
So, the short answer: Yes, I get better hang time with more consistency. When your hair is full of moisture, the bit of moisture the atmosphere may draw out doesn’t cause as much massive shrinkage, and the weight of water and products helps it keep its elongated shape. (That pic is from last summer and I was WnG pretty much multiple times a week for 3+months. I had some hard knocks and that caused me to fall into a spiral of loose hair neglect and that caused a setback of 6+ inches... but the setback wasn’t WnGs. It was neglect.)
I personally think dry hair is the most gravity defying, but I know some hair legitimately grows vertically no matter how moisturized. My experiences just don’t bear out that vertical hair is as common as people wanna believe.
I mean, too, my hair in that curly fro is BSL but when I’ve cut my hair back to BSL, I can’t get it to stick out like that unless I manipulate it to kingdom come or let it dry out badly (and risk damaging it).
I did MHM for many many months, consistently doing wash and goes, even if I wasn't wearing them out. I believe this is what allowed my hair to reach a point of great hydration. I don't use shampoo on my hair with every wash but when I do, I don't lose definition.
I agree with everything you said
.
MizzBFly
Well-Known Member
I would like to try WnG this summer and I used to back in 2016 and it would last 7 days but now I have more hair to deal with. I’m HiPo so Product suggestions/interactions are minimal on the Tube.
I would like to try mouse and lighter hold products.
Eco Krystal gives me a better hang time but wetline works very well too.
ETA: routine
damp hair/ a leave-in or not/ Cantu Coconut curling cream /gel/ oil for shine sometimes / air dry -Ive never used a blow dryer & a bonnet dryer leaves it too crisp.
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ThursdayGirl
Well-Known Member
Those of you who are doing WNG often, could you describe what you are doing? I read about MHM, but it seemed overwhelming. Are you all really doing that much washing? Clay washing, etc.? I wanted to do a wash and gos, but thought I would ruin my hair with so much washing and so little time.
kxlot79
Kitchen Mixtress
I am not doing and haven’t done MHM for a long time. (It doesn’t suit my lifestyle and it’s unnecessary for me at this point in my hair journey.) But I do encourage the intrepid with the time and patience to try it out.
You’re right; I meant Maximum Hydration as a concept, not the particular method that’s become a popularized way to acheive such hair.
Hair at its maximum moisture/strength balance is soooooo much easier to care for in every way. And it looks tons better too.
Mine is rarely more than 2-3 treatments away from being in tip-top condition.
You’re right; I meant Maximum Hydration as a concept, not the particular method that’s become a popularized way to acheive such hair.
Hair at its maximum moisture/strength balance is soooooo much easier to care for in every way. And it looks tons better too.
Mine is rarely more than 2-3 treatments away from being in tip-top condition.
kxlot79
Kitchen Mixtress
I have another unpopular opinion. Hygral Fatigue is mostly a myth in practice.
Hair is very similar to skin. The same way you wouldn’t shower and expect to stay juicy, supple and soft without moisturizing/butter/oil etc, who expects their hair not to be an ashy, dry mess if all they do is put water on it? (And that’s outside purposefully coating hair with sebum.)
There is definitely moisture oversaturation, in the same way fingers can get pruny with too much water absorption. But that’s an abuse of soaking water, IMO. Having pruny hands with too much water stops no reasonable person from washing their hands frequently. I believe the same logic can be applied to the idea of washing hair “too much.”
Now, can you overmanipulate hair? Handle it too roughly? Use incompatible products/techniques? Yes! To all of that. But in a best practices scenario? I just don’t see hygral fatigue being a legitimate concern for most people.
Now for the bolded, upthread I posted a video of one of Jaleesa Moses’ WnG videos where she’s just using conditioner and a serum. I often do a variation of that and doing so takes me no more than 10 minutes on nearly WL hair from start to finish. WnGs can be as simple or as complicated as you make them. I often just used conditioner or a leave-in for my WnG and would redo it the next day or 2 days later. Sometimes RO/LI & Oil, LOG, LOC, LCO, LCG, CG, LG... there are many variations. I’d shingle, rake and shake, praying hands, Anthony Dickey Method, Curly Girl Method, Tightly Curly Method, Maximum Hydration Method... those are just the ones I can think of offhand. Denman brush, Wet Brush, fingers only.... so many different techniques all to different results and different products. And you can just redo as you feel it’s needed.
MHM wasn’t overwhelming when I first started because I was so gung-ho. But it was overkill for me after maybe 2 weeks. I reached Maximum Hydration pretty quickly because I was already so close when I started. Clay washes are amazing for WnGs IME and I often recommend them to people trying to achieve more definition. To some degree, definition comes with moisture.
IMO, poor techniques/products and neglect are what ruin WnGs, not the style itself. With good techniques, products, and upkeep, tangles aren’t a concern, and neither is overmanipulation etc because you probably end up spending less net time on your loose hair. (2-5 ten minute WnGs a week versus a 2-3 hour twistout each week, e.g.)
I would say if it’s something you’re really curious about, scratch that itch. Just be in a best practices frame of mind and start out slowly. Build up to multiday hair instead of trying to achieve it on the first try.
For reference, my longest WnG was 11 days old and still looked pretty good. To some degree, the older some WnGs get, the better they look. But for me, and for many others, the older WnGs become problematic with dryness, breakage, tangles, and general damage. It takes me longer to properly reset my hair after 4-5+ days than just redoing it 2-3+ times a week. But everybody is different and some people find that resetting their WnG takes the same time as resetting a twistout or braidout.
Hair is very similar to skin. The same way you wouldn’t shower and expect to stay juicy, supple and soft without moisturizing/butter/oil etc, who expects their hair not to be an ashy, dry mess if all they do is put water on it? (And that’s outside purposefully coating hair with sebum.)
There is definitely moisture oversaturation, in the same way fingers can get pruny with too much water absorption. But that’s an abuse of soaking water, IMO. Having pruny hands with too much water stops no reasonable person from washing their hands frequently. I believe the same logic can be applied to the idea of washing hair “too much.”
Now, can you overmanipulate hair? Handle it too roughly? Use incompatible products/techniques? Yes! To all of that. But in a best practices scenario? I just don’t see hygral fatigue being a legitimate concern for most people.
Now for the bolded, upthread I posted a video of one of Jaleesa Moses’ WnG videos where she’s just using conditioner and a serum. I often do a variation of that and doing so takes me no more than 10 minutes on nearly WL hair from start to finish. WnGs can be as simple or as complicated as you make them. I often just used conditioner or a leave-in for my WnG and would redo it the next day or 2 days later. Sometimes RO/LI & Oil, LOG, LOC, LCO, LCG, CG, LG... there are many variations. I’d shingle, rake and shake, praying hands, Anthony Dickey Method, Curly Girl Method, Tightly Curly Method, Maximum Hydration Method... those are just the ones I can think of offhand. Denman brush, Wet Brush, fingers only.... so many different techniques all to different results and different products. And you can just redo as you feel it’s needed.
MHM wasn’t overwhelming when I first started because I was so gung-ho. But it was overkill for me after maybe 2 weeks. I reached Maximum Hydration pretty quickly because I was already so close when I started. Clay washes are amazing for WnGs IME and I often recommend them to people trying to achieve more definition. To some degree, definition comes with moisture.
IMO, poor techniques/products and neglect are what ruin WnGs, not the style itself. With good techniques, products, and upkeep, tangles aren’t a concern, and neither is overmanipulation etc because you probably end up spending less net time on your loose hair. (2-5 ten minute WnGs a week versus a 2-3 hour twistout each week, e.g.)
I would say if it’s something you’re really curious about, scratch that itch. Just be in a best practices frame of mind and start out slowly. Build up to multiday hair instead of trying to achieve it on the first try.
For reference, my longest WnG was 11 days old and still looked pretty good. To some degree, the older some WnGs get, the better they look. But for me, and for many others, the older WnGs become problematic with dryness, breakage, tangles, and general damage. It takes me longer to properly reset my hair after 4-5+ days than just redoing it 2-3+ times a week. But everybody is different and some people find that resetting their WnG takes the same time as resetting a twistout or braidout.
Theresamonet
Well-Known Member
@kxlot79 Have you always worn WnGs or did you start once your hair grew longer? I’m asking because I see a lot of type 4 naturals with long hair (on YouTube) who grew their hair out in protective and stretches styles, but start wearing WnGs once they’ve achieved their length goals. I’m attempting to grow my hair from neck to waist (on my 4th BC ) with WnGs primarily. But I don’t see a lot of type 4s who’ve done that.
) with WnGs primarily. But I don’t see a lot of type 4s who’ve done that.Claps and praise! I go all kinds of tomatoes thrown at me years ago on another site when I made this comment, as if it’s an insult. No, it’s not. It just is and that’s fine!
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GGsKin
Well-Known Member
Currently I wash my hair approx. every two weeks: either shampoo, DC, and clay by saturating my very wet hair with a loose clay mix, followed by Shea butter and gel. Or I will rinse with water and apply Shea butter, then gel.
When I first started doing WnGs (with MHM) I was washing my hair on average 4 times a week. The act wasn't too much work for me because I was excited and also seeing results from growing out bald spots but it was (eventually) too much for my hair because for the 'method', I wasn't using hydrolyzed protein, and the frequency and measures of baking soda and ACV were way too high.
The frequent wetting (although I'm not currently), techniques and use of clay are some things that have remained with me. In reality a wash day can look like any one of these; water rinse/gel, or rinse/DC/gel, or rinse/DC/clay/gel, or shampoo/ DC/ clay/ gel.
Being thorough (finger detangling and smoothing) in my technique everytime allows my WnGs to last really well, I think 16 days is my longest stretch.
This year, I'm experimenting with Shea butter so I smooth this on my strands on wash day before gel, and on some additional nights after. It's been working well for me.
kxlot79
Kitchen Mixtress
Yes, WnGs have always been a part of my styling repertoire. The first time I was trying to grow my hair out to WL, I did so in about 3 years *strictly* protective styling. I’ve had some major cuts since then and have figured out how to make any style work for me if I want it.
I think when you’re first growing your hair out, if length is your goal, you often model your routine after others who have acheived what you want. And most Type 4s are most comfortable with protective styles and TOs/BOs because the margin for error in achieving your ultimate goal (length retention) is very low.
IMO, if you’re trying to maintain length goals and master your WnG, that’s gonna be an uphill battle because the temptation is gonna be to achieve multiday hair without damage and best practices for your ideal results & lifestyle. Trial and error can chew up your ends, even without neglect.
ETA: Idk what your particular lifestyle/hair type is. I mostly wear mine when it’s 60 degrees+ outside, but WnG doesn’t work for me as a 365 method, due to where I live and conflicting lifestyle choices. I believe a Type 4 can go from NL to WL primarily with WnGs but it will probably take longer if you’re simultaneously in the process of mastering your WnG.
I think when you’re first growing your hair out, if length is your goal, you often model your routine after others who have acheived what you want. And most Type 4s are most comfortable with protective styles and TOs/BOs because the margin for error in achieving your ultimate goal (length retention) is very low.
IMO, if you’re trying to maintain length goals and master your WnG, that’s gonna be an uphill battle because the temptation is gonna be to achieve multiday hair without damage and best practices for your ideal results & lifestyle. Trial and error can chew up your ends, even without neglect.
ETA: Idk what your particular lifestyle/hair type is. I mostly wear mine when it’s 60 degrees+ outside, but WnG doesn’t work for me as a 365 method, due to where I live and conflicting lifestyle choices. I believe a Type 4 can go from NL to WL primarily with WnGs but it will probably take longer if you’re simultaneously in the process of mastering your WnG.
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DigitalRain
Well-Known Member
Hey lady! Long time no see.
I know right? Life gets in the way I don't be on here often like I used to. Good to see you!
Theresamonet
Well-Known Member
I’ve already mastered my WnG. I’ve been doing them for 10 years. But I’ve not done them while actively trying to grow long hair. All conventional hair growing wisdom tells you that you need to hide your hair to grow it to long lengths.
kxlot79
Kitchen Mixtress
Then the hard part is done! Did you have breakage or crazy shedding or impossible knots? If not then why the hesitation about growing out a WnG?
Shavonn
Active Member
I agree with you. I think a lot of the time, when women go natural, it's because they saw a woman with natural hair that they liked whether they know they can achieve the same look or not. I think this is where the looser patterns gain their momentum on Youtube. You see all in the comments, "how do you get your hair 'like that'"? and while she can show them all that she does, it will not change their hair. But because that person's hair is the desired result, folks will follow and practice, attempting to get their hair 'like that'.
I have a friend with 4C who keeps relaxing because she doesn't see beauty in her hair. I hate that she feels that way but I feel that society has glorified straight hair and loose curls.
I have a friend with 4C who keeps relaxing because she doesn't see beauty in her hair. I hate that she feels that way but I feel that society has glorified straight hair and loose curls.
Alma Petra
Well-Known Member
I could not find it but I found these two threads:
https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/what-i-noticed-about-not-combing-the-hair-often.293707/
https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/how-to-figure-out-hair-type.199843/
whereby @Nonie discussed her experience in defining her 4b curls
Alma Petra
Well-Known Member
I'd think so. Not very sure though. I usually measure the size of my coils against the size of my irises lol. I think I should measure them with a tape for easier comparisons.
Here are my curls today from afar, though rather frizzy:
They look similar to hers I guess, maybe a bit smaller.
snoop
Well-Known Member
The first YouTube guru I found was Napptural85. After I realized that Terressentials wouldn't make my hair look like hers -- no matter how religiously I used it. It was a bitter sweet realization. I was a bit sad that I couldn't get her curls, but I learned that I didn't need her curls to have healthy (, beautiful) hair.
Alma Petra
Well-Known Member
I have measured my coils; they are on average 5 mm in diameter, ranging between 3-6 mm
MizzBFly
Well-Known Member
My professional and personal experiences have made me a believer in Maximum Hydration. (Like the MHM.) I think the consistency of GOOD results is what optimizes your WnG. So the more often I do WnG, the better they get. Like, to the point where I can shampoo and my hair is in perfect coils from root to tip (FRESHLY SHAMPOO’d, before conditioner!!!
So, the short answer: Yes, I get better hang time with more consistency. When your hair is full of moisture, the bit of moisture the atmosphere may draw out doesn’t cause as much massive shrinkage, and the weight of water and products helps it keep its elongated shape. (That pic is from last summer and I was WnG pretty much multiple times a week for 3+months. I had some hard knocks and that caused me to fall into a spiral of loose hair neglect and that caused a setback of 6+ inches... but the setback wasn’t WnGs. It was neglect.)
I personally think dry hair is the most gravity defying, but I know some hair legitimately grows vertically no matter how moisturized. My experiences just don’t bear out that vertical hair is as common as people wanna believe.
I mean, too, my hair in that curly fro is BSL but when I’ve cut my hair back to BSL, I can’t get it to stick out like that unless I manipulate it to kingdom come or let it dry out badly (and risk damaging it).
Do you remember DubaiD4c?...she was ahhhhmazzing with MH transformations and was providing type 4 sisters in Dubai and the UK with juicy curls!! I use to follow her blog
Dubaidee4c.blogspot.com
ETA- she has YouTube videos showing her transformations
She had it down to a science with hair assessments and which formulation to use based on density, porosity, etc... I haven’t checked her out in a year so I’m not sure if she has been consistent.
What mishaps should I look out for or be mindful of to prevent a setback doing WnGs?
Since my progress is on an incline with thick full ends, I would detest having a setback. I do have a lot to consider but DubaiDee4c makes it really attainable.
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LivingInPeace
Well-Known Member
This is the wash and go I did this morning. I think I’m a mix of 4a and 4b.
YvetteWithJoy
On break
Thank you so much for mentioning DubaiDee4c.
Her results on so many folks' head were/are amazing! I've tried many times to do the original, 7-day MHM. My hair did improve, but it was so time-consuming, and I got nothing like her results. Wow.
So, I made some Cherry Lola Caramel Treatment. I'm going to try it soon!
Thanks again.
MizzBFly
Well-Known Member
Good to hear, I would have to refresh with all her videos and blog entries to get the tips again.
Please let us know how it goes!
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