2016 Christian Random Thoughts
- Thread starter Lucia
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movingforward
Moving forward and onward
Sometimes I'm so overwhelmed with how much the Lord loves me. 
Good times and bad --- just to know he loves me.....I just can't express in words.
Good times and bad --- just to know he loves me.....I just can't express in words.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
@Shimmie, if I can help clarify, we definitely believe that people can sin in thought (such as indulging in illicit sexual fantasies, or entertaining the idea to harm or kill someone, etc.). If someone with homosexual tendencies gives in to lustful thoughts, yes, that would definitely be sin. The proclivity itself is what we call "disordered," meaning that it is not properly ordered the natural way God intended our sexuality to be (heterosexual and within the bonds of marriage). However, lustful thoughts/fantasies or engaging in such actions are sinful.
I think the friction or difference between what @kanozas is trying to say and what you are saying, is that you see the very existence of the affliction of homosexual desires as sinful, whereas @kanozas is trying to explain that the existence of this condition is a disorder, but this disorder turns into SIN when a person indulges in it by thought or by word.
Think of an alcoholic. Even a sober alcoholic who hasn't touched a drink in 30 years is still an alcoholic--and he may even be tempted at times to take a drink--however, in his heart and in his actions he chooses to say "No" to alcohol and walk the path of sobriety.
A person commits sin when he willfully gives his mind over to sinful thoughts or engages in sin--not because he is tempted by the sin. Sin, and temptation to sin, are two different things.
I think the friction or difference between what @kanozas is trying to say and what you are saying, is that you see the very existence of the affliction of homosexual desires as sinful, whereas @kanozas is trying to explain that the existence of this condition is a disorder, but this disorder turns into SIN when a person indulges in it by thought or by word.
Think of an alcoholic. Even a sober alcoholic who hasn't touched a drink in 30 years is still an alcoholic--and he may even be tempted at times to take a drink--however, in his heart and in his actions he chooses to say "No" to alcohol and walk the path of sobriety.
A person commits sin when he willfully gives his mind over to sinful thoughts or engages in sin--not because he is tempted by the sin. Sin, and temptation to sin, are two different things.
Hi @kanozas and to all of those reading...
It is imperative to weigh in on this statement (bolded above). God's Word -- The Bible is quite clear that not only is the 'ACT' of homosexuality sin, but even the thought of it. God is very clear about the thoughts of man, as sin starts in the mind and then becomes manifested into the act of it.
If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened. (Psalm 66:18)
For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. (Mark 7:21-22)
Each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. (James 1:14-15)
The Bible is clear that...'whatsoever a man 'thinketh' so is he." If a person 'thinks' they are gay, eventually they will 'live' it and not seek deliverance from it. For one to say that there is no psychological/biological (chemical) answer(s) is a lie straight from hell. There is an answer, it's sin...period. The statement above is very dangerous to one's soul, as it is the devil's deception of giving 'approval' to it, to keep one in bondage and it actually gives way to one having 'permission' to be a part of that lifestyle. Therefore, this concept is not from God. It never was, nor shall it ever be. The Truth is that it is not 'okay' to be gay. not even in thought. One has to know that it is sin and will always be sin, and that God does not approve of it, nor it's thoughts.
homosexuality is not an entitlement which is how it is being exalted. It was not eliminated from the Cross. It is not exempt from redemption. It is a sin that was indeed nailed to the Cross along with every other sin. Therefore, it is not true, that it is acceptable to be gay just as long as one is physically abstinent. One has to accept it as sin and to accept the redemption from it that Jesus so lovingly paid for...in Full.
I've shared this with compassion.
To God be the Glory... Amen.
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Thank you @Galadriel but they reject this fully and quite possibly do not see it as an affliction. They firmly believe that homosexual persons happen as a result of full will and not disordered nature in all cases of such. It's not just the act. It should extend to all people ...because their desires are still here. Some do not comprehend that all thoughts entering the mind are not our fault nor sin. We are aware of this due to reconciliation. But like you explained, entertained thoughts are the problem. The devil is busy sending evil thoughts all over the globe. It's what you do with them that counts. This is one reason I was appalled to read something to the effect that some would consider marrying a "former" gay person. I don't think that works in 99% of cases. Someone is going to be in distress. Human sexuality is highly complex and there are many things that people do not wish to address as it depends heavily on human psychology - somewhat of christian taboo. Anyhoo, they don't like discussions of this nature (though it be human nature for either good or bad) and I don't believe anybody is going to check our cited sources as to why we come to these conclusions. Besides, there is the suspicion ever present.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
It's part of concupiscence--which we ALL must deal with until death.
ETA: we are all broken in some way, in this fallen world. And we all have a cross to bear. The point is to follow Him who gave us the perfect example on how to carry our crosses and battle against sin. The power of Christ's Cross is truly redemptive.
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Does that mean it's then sin or temptation (concupiscence)? I need to finish reading "Theology of the Body." I regret now not ever taking theology in college lol.
blessedandfavoured
Well-Known Member
I've not been involved in this conversation, but thank you @Galadriel for your clear explanation. {ASIDE: have you considered being a writer? Your posts are always so eloquent and well-presented - I personally think you're gifted!}
The way I see it, regardless of whether or not one was 'born that way' (regarding any ungoldy proclivity, not just homosexuality), God is the One who made the world by speaking, and made a man out of dust, then a woman out of bone, then went on to open dead wombs and make a virgin conceive. He raises people from the dead, and Jesus said the all things are possible to those who believe. In my view of things, God is able to re-order every disorder, no matter how it came about.
Our Lord Christ cast out demons and has the Name above every name! The one time in the Bible that Jesus didn't do many miracles was in His hometown, because of their unbelief. I'm not one of those name-it-and-claim-it people, but the Bible is clear that a little faith goes a long way, and it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. If people don't believe that God can deliver them, it's unlikely they'll ask Him for it.
In Jeremiah, God says He's the God of ALL flesh, then He asks if there's anything too hard for Him. I always thought that was a rhetorical question, but maybe it's not - maybe it's for each individual to answer. Thanks again for your post, I really appreciate it. Have a good weekend!
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Concupiscence is basically our tendency or urge for sexual pleasure.
Concupiscence needs to be corrected and kept on the right path so that we don't go off course and sin. So, it's an after-effect of us being part of a fallen/sinful world, but is not sin itself.
Baptism cleanses us of original and personal sin, but baptism doesn't keep us from getting sick or from dying (these are both unfortunate after-effects of being in a fallen world). And just like illness and death, we are still susceptible to concupiscence.
A sexual urge or tendency can be *rightly ordered* when it is directed toward its natural purpose within God's will (the sexual relationship between husband and wife). In fact, in order to rightly order and have mastery over concupiscence, the Apostle Paul urges husbands and wives to give themselves to each other:
1 Corinthians 7:2-4 "But because there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife.…"
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Tis very true but you know we catholics also are very partial to plain, common sense. I know that G-d is capable but He might not be willing to remove the affliction in some persons and that would not be due to lack of faith. I also would be very wary of linking myself in marriage to a former homosexual because of the likelihood of temptation. From reading the CCC, it seems to be more aligned with encouraging them to remain chaste and celibate as they work out their salvation.
---------------
ETA: I mean that if concupiscence is "strong sexual desire/lust," then is it more sin or is it more temptation or just plain inclination due to the definition and inclusion of "lust?" When we see "lust" in the textbook definition, it seems to be pointing to sin. I'm thinking of the two inclinations in man and how they balance each other out (yetzer hara and yetzer hatov). Actually, I guess the catholic definition is basically the same. It surely isn't a puritan definition.
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Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Aww, thank you for the compliment!
I agree with this.
I agree with this as well.
Have a good weekend!
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
I see where you're coming from because some of this depends on each person's level of affliction and how he/she responds to God's offer of grace.
I do believe a person can lean on God's sanctifying grace to keep his particular concupiscence in check--heck, even as a married straight woman, I have a duty to keep mine in check and remain faithful to my husband, right? So yes, God's grace can keep us on the right path, especially when we willingly surrender to His grace. However, there are those who are deeply afflicted, where they are not cooperating with God's grace (or at least not fully) and they fall into a constant cycle of indulgence and sin--think of people who are addicted to porn, studies have shown that viewing pornography literally changes your brain chemistry and gives you a euphoric high like taking a drug. A person who indulges in sexual sin is making it harder for himself to escape it because it's addictive. I think the group of people you're talking about @kanozas (those who struggle with deep-seated homosexual desires) may fall into that category, because it's so deeply ingrained.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
I'd say it's inclination with the potential to sin.
If we're talking lust, then yes, lust is a sin against the virtue of chastity. Remember that sin/evil is always a twisting or negation of a good/virtue.
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Yes!! All the more reason to comprehend that we do not know the genesis of it other than it being seriously disordered nature. I think that accepting or cooperating with G-d's grace might mean coming under celibacy and not necessarily being "cured." I guess it depends upon G-d's will for that person. But for those who were not abused and were young children with this deep-seated inclination, they did not arrive at this by chemical change from exposure (my guess). IMO, those would be the ones who were born of this nature (congenital chemical brain aberrations). Shrugs...who knows for sure. That's why I am obedient to the CCC in not condemning people to hell for merely having the inclination. Mental illness (brain chemistry that is awry) can also be congenital. But alas...
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Yes, and I think it's important to distinguish what you (and the Catechism) are saying about the person being afflicted with this and someone who is trying to argue "born this way, therefore natural and good." Some people are afflicted with schizophrenia, but we don't call it natural or good. Some people are afflicted with alcoholism, or a certain neurosis, but we don't call them natural or good. For some reason when it comes to sexual morality, people lose their minds and claim there are no rules and no morals attached.
Speaking just on behalf of my own musings and no one else's, I think people are afflicted with deep-seated homosexual desires due to a mixture of environment, experience (like abuse/sexual exposure), and/or a disordered sexual proclivity due to being in a fallen world and having imperfect bodies. Scientifically, we have not discovered any "gay gene," so I don't believe someone is directly genetically coded to be gay, but some people are susceptible to these desires because of our fallen natures.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Well I understand that you're reading the catechism and I get it, because you're speaking in Catholic-ese, LOL.
Lucia
Well-Known Member
Thanks for making such clear distinctions it is a difficult and complex subject to understand and discuss.
There is also the influence that spiritual entities can play on homosexuality and other sins. Sometimes it's a result of generational spirits and curses upon a family line either knowingly or unknowingly, along with everything else environment, early childhood psychological imprints, abuse in childhood sexual abuse or violence, more severe verbal or witnessing one parent abuse the other and them rejecting that abusive parent in themselves and taking on the characteristics of the abused parent leading them to homosexuality.
Fr Riperberger an exorcist does touch on these subjects in his lectures. So do other religious pastors. There's a lot more to it than we can imagine: like the generational curses can come from some unknown ancestor or a father or grandfather who got mixed up in some sort of mystical or satanic cult worship and on turn cursed his bloodline, also this is deliberately sought out in pacts with demons or the devil himself for riches, power, or fame and in return their sacrifice is their sexuality and they must be homosexual or participate in homosexual acts to maintain their status and keep their life.
In voodoo they allow themselves to be initiated then possessed by different entities so they can gain power, wealth or master witchcraft so they can manipulate those around them with fear, these pacts can also passed down in families through moleststion as well as some traditions.
I encourage you to look up these things and be aware, not afraid so you know your enemy and what they are capable of. We must watch and pray and be diligent. There's plenty of YT scholars and testimonies that are reliable most are not. Books I'd stay away from most because they're "how to" books only ones from a Christian religious scholar explaining what we need to know such as spiritual warfare books.
Jesus said be not afraid may times. Remember no weapon formed against you shall prosper.
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kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Still, major mad crush on Jim Caviezel!!! I love the story of him during the filming of The Passion of the Christ.
@kanozas
Regarding the bolded comment from your post above.
Was it necessary to post this? The answer is 'No'! I've noticed that this is a trend with many of your posts which is not only offensive to our non-Catholic members, but it confirms my observation that there is a spirit of contention behind it. It also indicates that you feel yourself as a Catholic as superior to others.
This is not conducive to keeping peace among our members in the our Christian forum. As I shared in the Catholic thread, this is the reason that the Catholic Random Thoughts thread has been temporarily removed from public view due to several postings of this nature.
In the last several weeks since I addressed the comments 'against' our Catholic members all respect has been shown to you. So why do you continue to stir up offense and contention with negative comments such as above and your other comments where you are using the pronoun 'they' ... meaning those here that you are taking an issue with. It's not only cryptic but it is obvious that you are not keeping peace among our members. Our other Catholic members are not doing this. They are not being contentious. If nothing more, your negative comments are not helping them keep the peace among us.
@Lucia , @Galadriel and @Belle Du Jour show God's love in their posts, especially @Lucia who expresses the love of Jesus towards everyone.
Although @Lucia is true to her Faith as a Catholic, she still shares the love of God equally towards everyone here without respite nor contention. It's one of the very reasons, that she was asked to open this 2016 Christian Random Thoughts thread, as she shares the heart of God for all, no matter what denomination. She's always here; she prays for everyone here, and she is not limited to encouraging Catholics only. @Galadriel stands out for her love for all as well. That's how it should be.
Shimmie...
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
And yet, one thread calling us to convert remains up. In the face of people always thinking we are wrong and evil, maybe it's like Black people always comparing themselves against the grain because of the abuses and defensiveness? My bad, my oversight. I didn't see it as an insult, I see it as a religious cultural trait (not just biblical wisdom but common, general, human experience, incorporating science. which is given by G-d..I should have said that in hindsight) and one that I will be careful not to mention again. You see, Shimmie, we get abused by non-catholics in real life, right and left. We still don't hate them. We pray for unity. Maybe it's the result of the abuses and the feeling of general rejection- this non-filtered reaction from the pain caused here by those who claim they are well-meaning but inadvertently calling Jesus the father of religious whoredom (Whore of Babylon)? People mean well but what they are taught is in error. Still, if I talked about your mother, you would feel some kind of way about me, no? And if you kept on saying it from time to time, you'd still feel some kind of way, no? Defensiveness after attack? I dunno, I will work on it. But I don't have a spirit of contention, no demons etc. Maybe I am hurt? My errors don't make me a non-christian, thanks. They make me as flawed as you and anyone else here...as human....just maybe others not as hurt as I am about it.
Well, I could compare you to countless other christians but that would be wrong. I have known for sometime that you do not like me ( and others for reasons I do not need to repeat) because I challenge the status quo at times (general society, not just one thing) and I say what is in my heart, sometimes without filter. That might be my human fault. But I do remember one compliment you made of me in which you said you noticed that I can genuinely forgive. Is that not what Jesus teaches? It is what my parents taught me. Most times that is true of me but I will not brag as only He deserves our boasting of Him. There are too many flaws in me and I am aware, sometimes...life - we learn not all today. Well, it's likewise true this time around....forgiveness I won't trouble you again but I think you and everyone should know of the pain this has caused.
Well, I could compare you to countless other christians but that would be wrong. I have known for sometime that you do not like me ( and others for reasons I do not need to repeat) because I challenge the status quo at times (general society, not just one thing) and I say what is in my heart, sometimes without filter. That might be my human fault. But I do remember one compliment you made of me in which you said you noticed that I can genuinely forgive. Is that not what Jesus teaches? It is what my parents taught me. Most times that is true of me but I will not brag as only He deserves our boasting of Him. There are too many flaws in me and I am aware, sometimes...life - we learn not all today. Well, it's likewise true this time around....forgiveness I won't trouble you again but I think you and everyone should know of the pain this has caused.
Laela
Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
Keeping the families of those slain in Orlando in the past 48 hours in prayer. When we see these things happen:
“Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
‘Give us this day our daily bread.
‘And forgive us our debts, as we have forgiven our debtors [letting go of both the wrong and the resentment].
‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]’ - Matt 6:9-13 (AMP)
“Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
‘Give us this day our daily bread.
‘And forgive us our debts, as we have forgiven our debtors [letting go of both the wrong and the resentment].
‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]’ - Matt 6:9-13 (AMP)
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Just heard about it this morning, may they RIP, and may their families receive justice (I haven't heard further news. Is the gun man caught?).
Laela
Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
Hi, Gala
I'm sure you already know by now how deadly this attack is. My heart goes out to the families of the slain, innocent victims of a brainwashed and confused man. I'd heard of a shooting early, too but it didn't hit me on the severity until after service when the news showed on tvs during lunch
I'm sure you already know by now how deadly this attack is. My heart goes out to the families of the slain, innocent victims of a brainwashed and confused man. I'd heard of a shooting early, too but it didn't hit me on the severity until after service when the news showed on tvs during lunch
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Psalm 120:2 (ASV) Deliver my soul, O Jehovah, from lying lips, [And] from a deceitful tongue.
If that doesn't describe the struggle of Black people, esp. in the U.S., on how verbal and emotional abuse is strongly against them.
If that doesn't describe the struggle of Black people, esp. in the U.S., on how verbal and emotional abuse is strongly against them.
LiftedUp
Well-Known Member
1 Samuel 17:48-58New King James Version (NKJV)
48 So it was, when the Philistine arose and came and drew near to meet David, that David hurried and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine. 49 Then David put his hand in his bag and took out a stone; and he slung it and struck the Philistine in his forehead, so that the stone sank into his forehead, and he fell on his face to the earth. 50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and struck the Philistine and killed him. But there was no sword in the hand of David. 51 Therefore David ran and stood over the Philistine, took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him, and cut off his head with it.
And when the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, they fled. 52 Now the men of Israel and Judah arose and shouted, and pursued the Philistines as far as the entrance of the valley[a] and to the gates of Ekron. And the wounded of the Philistines fell along the road to Shaaraim, even as far as Gath and Ekron. 53 Then the children of Israel returned from chasing the Philistines, and they plundered their tents. 54 And David took the head of the Philistine and brought it to Jerusalem, but he put his armor in his tent.
55 When Saul saw David going out against the Philistine, he said to Abner, the commander of the army, “Abner, whose son is this youth?”
And Abner said, “As your soul lives, O king, I do not know.”
56 So the king said, “Inquire whose son this young man is.”
57 Then, as David returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, Abner took him and brought him before Saul with the head of the Philistine in his hand. 58 And Saul said to him, “Whose son are you, young man?”
So David answered, “I am the son of your servant Jesse the Bethlehemite.”
48 So it was, when the Philistine arose and came and drew near to meet David, that David hurried and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine. 49 Then David put his hand in his bag and took out a stone; and he slung it and struck the Philistine in his forehead, so that the stone sank into his forehead, and he fell on his face to the earth. 50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and struck the Philistine and killed him. But there was no sword in the hand of David. 51 Therefore David ran and stood over the Philistine, took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him, and cut off his head with it.
And when the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, they fled. 52 Now the men of Israel and Judah arose and shouted, and pursued the Philistines as far as the entrance of the valley[a] and to the gates of Ekron. And the wounded of the Philistines fell along the road to Shaaraim, even as far as Gath and Ekron. 53 Then the children of Israel returned from chasing the Philistines, and they plundered their tents. 54 And David took the head of the Philistine and brought it to Jerusalem, but he put his armor in his tent.
55 When Saul saw David going out against the Philistine, he said to Abner, the commander of the army, “Abner, whose son is this youth?”
And Abner said, “As your soul lives, O king, I do not know.”
56 So the king said, “Inquire whose son this young man is.”
57 Then, as David returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, Abner took him and brought him before Saul with the head of the Philistine in his hand. 58 And Saul said to him, “Whose son are you, young man?”
So David answered, “I am the son of your servant Jesse the Bethlehemite.”
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
This week I'll be meeting up with a small group of ladies from my church to do exercise and prayer. We've been sharing scriptures and giving each other encouragement. In reading the Bible, it just continues to amaze me how God continues to speak truth to us, and how the Word will never grow "old," "outdated," or "irrelevant.
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