10 Signs of a Good Woman, from a man's POV
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Bunny77
New Member
I've actually been through this before and if we are in an exclusive relationship, I don't have an issue with us cooking at home to save money or limiting the dinners out to once a week. Also, we can go to cheaper restaurants where the dinner isn't going to break his wallet (I think I've only been on on $200 meal date in my life) and I've helped with coupons as well. I will treat him occassionally as well -- but it took a LONG time in my relationship with a boyfriend before I did that.
The point is, I do this for someone who I'm already with.
In the early stages where a man is pursuing, then yes, I expect him to pay for everything and no, I don't expect to help, even if I am making more money than him. He asked me out, he pays... but where is the idea coming from that just because women expect them to pay that women want expensive dates? A woman can be understanding of a man's financial situation by suggesting more reasonable restaurant and date ideas and not put him in a bind, but paying for him is taking on too much of his role.
I also do not believe in applying equal pay/equal work ideas to relationships. They're two different realms. If two people are performing the same job, then yes, they should be paid equally. But in a relationship, the man and woman have different roles and should not be expected to contribute the same things... plus, men are always saying, "Let them be the men," and that women (particularly black women) "emasculate" them, so I say fine, be a man and be the provider. I'll be the nurturer and supporter, but you gotta provide. So even within a relationship, I expect him to be doing the majority of the paying for dinners, etc.
They can't have it both ways, which is what some of these men really want.
P.S. I owe you a PM!
I didn't forget... (okay, I kinda did, sowwy!)
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~~HoneyComb~~
Well-Known Member
And see, you do that for your HUSBAND!
Heck, I'll do that for my husband too!
Boyfriend or less? Hecks naw![/quote]
The bolded is the whole point.
The things on the list are not things you go overboard for to a boyfriend.
Those things come when you're married or you're darn near walking down the aisle to get married.
A lot of women now-a-days think that the "catering" thing is going to get them married. I've seen the opposite happen. They do everything to prove themselves marriage material very early in the relationship, only to find the guy moves on to someone else.
So what if you cook for him, clean for him, help him pay for meals, run his bath water, give him massages. None of that means anything if he's not connected to you emotionally.
Ask him early in the relationship how he feels about you, and 9 times out of 10 the woman won't continue the relationship, because it takes more than "catering" to a man to get the kind of connection he's looking for.
bimbabe
Well-Known Member
The point is, I do this for someone who I'm already with. This is what I meant as well. Not someone you are now getting to know.
In the early stages where a man is pursuing, then yes, I expect him to pay for everything and no, I don't expect to help, even if I am making more money than him. He asked me out, he pays...
I also do not believe in applying equal pay/equal work ideas to relationships. They're two different realms. If two people are performing the same job, then yes, they should be paid equally. But in a relationship, the man and woman have different roles and should not be expected to contribute the same things... plus, men are always saying, "Let them be the men," and that women (particularly black women) "emasculate" them, so I say fine, be a man and be the provider. I'll be the nurturer and supporter, but you gotta provide. So even within a relationship, I expect him to be doing the majority of the paying for dinners, etc.
Nurturing and providing means cooking, washing dishes etc etc. that most 21st century women do not want to do.
They can't have it both ways, which is what some of these men really want.
P.S. I owe you a PM!You do? I forgot too. Its cool.
Like I said before I see nothing wrong with doing some of the things on the list some of the time. Just like I want romance, and trips, and jewellery...but it won't be an everyday occurence.
MD_Lady
Well-Known Member
Good points.
I did almost all of the things on that list for DH (when he was my SO) and it was cool because of the type of man he was. Even though I don't think the list was meant to be that deep, it bears mentioning that some men don't understand why women don't do certain things for them. Many of them want to label these women as selfish or say they "don't know how to treat a man" when the truth is that those men haven't done anything to warrant these gestures. No, I'm not saying people should carry around a chart and keep track of every little thing, but some guys truly think they can lay back and spectate while a woman gives them the world.
Ramya
New Member
I didn't ask for equal nothing.
The only "equaling" I will be doing is in marriage when both of our finances are combined. And I don't expect expensive dates 24/7. The whole point of the date is to enjoy our time together out in PUBLIC. I don't date at home, his nor mine. He can be as frugal and creative as his wallet and mind allows him to be. He knows his financial situation, as someone who he is pursuing I shouldn't early on.If he can't afford to tip at that particular restaurant he needs to choose another restaurant. He should expect to pay for the meal. He's PURSUING me.
My church had a men's fellowship where they discussed a man's role as provider and what that means. God does not hold a woman accountable for the success or failure of a couple's home. It is the man's responsibility to ensure that his home is taken care of. If his wife works great! But ultimately it's not her responsibility to provide. It's her choice and has nothing to do with selfishness. I'm very wary of men who EXPECT and DEMAND that women contribute financially while dating. He is showing his lack of ability to provide.
Bunny77
New Member
LOL about the PM...
Yeah, in a marriage, I'm fully prepared to cook and clean and all that for my husband. And maybe it's just me, but I do see most married 21st Century women at least attempting to do those things... even if they don't like them, they want to try! (Or they hire someone to help, so they get done!)
Reading the list however, these men were talking about random women doing these things for them... not wives, longtime girlfriends they planned to marry, or anything like that. The point was that they saw some women doing these things and decided "these are good women." So you get some women reading this (including in this thread) and thinking, "Okay, I need to do this stuff to be a good woman and get a good man," or "I'm already doing this and why don't I have a man?"
But meanwhile, as far as I can tell, these men writing this article are still single, and seem to just be sitting back and receiving all of the "goodness" that these women are giving with nary a commitment to any of them. They are basically saying that they are looking for wife/girlfriend-level treatment "just because."
I did those things to but I waited until we were serious.
I pray for my SIL and DIL all the time. I know my sons is gonna what someone similar to me (but she'll be plain and won't work - that's what he says. I tell him with those C's he bring home he might be a stay at home Dad
erplexed).I don't know why this is such a big deal (#8) but apparently it us among men. I always did and I've always had men comment on it. I can't figure it out? Dh said it's just a sign of thoughtfulness.
Regarding the article-----Although I don't subcribe to the things in this list unless we're in a committed relationship, i.e. serious and leading to marriage, I think the common theme here is that men, like women, like the "little" things in a relationship, the thoughtfulness. I've noticed this especially since I've been married. Dh appreciates the little things I do although I don't think they are major, they seem to be to him. It backs up my belief that men are fairly simple and if you do the little things, they have no problem doing the bigger things that we as women seem to want. The things listed here are VERY small IMO. I t hink the "listening" is very key. I truly believe that women don't listen to their men. I've had to check myself on this over the years and it's a common thing I've heard among men.
I actually liked the article. I see other people have different thoughts though.
THE CAR DOOR TEST
This is the classic test from Bronx Tale. If you’ve seen the movie, you’ll remember when Sonny schooled Calogero, aka C, on how to gauge a good girl after you open up the car door for her and let her in: “If you walk around the back of the car and look through the rear window and she doesn’t reach over and lift up that button so that you can get in: dump her. Cause that means she’s a selfish broad and all you’re seeing is the tip of the iceberg. You dump her and you dump her fast.” This one is a rare to enforce nowadays with automatic locks, but if it’s applicable, a chick that does leans over to do that shows her unselfishness and what she’s willing to do for her man.
Regarding the article-----Although I don't subcribe to the things in this list unless we're in a committed relationship, i.e. serious and leading to marriage, I think the common theme here is that men, like women, like the "little" things in a relationship, the thoughtfulness. I've noticed this especially since I've been married. Dh appreciates the little things I do although I don't think they are major, they seem to be to him. It backs up my belief that men are fairly simple and if you do the little things, they have no problem doing the bigger things that we as women seem to want. The things listed here are VERY small IMO. I t hink the "listening" is very key. I truly believe that women don't listen to their men. I've had to check myself on this over the years and it's a common thing I've heard among men.
I actually liked the article. I see other people have different thoughts though.
This is the classic test from Bronx Tale. If you’ve seen the movie, you’ll remember when Sonny schooled Calogero, aka C, on how to gauge a good girl after you open up the car door for her and let her in: “If you walk around the back of the car and look through the rear window and she doesn’t reach over and lift up that button so that you can get in: dump her. Cause that means she’s a selfish broad and all you’re seeing is the tip of the iceberg. You dump her and you dump her fast.” This one is a rare to enforce nowadays with automatic locks, but if it’s applicable, a chick that does leans over to do that shows her unselfishness and what she’s willing to do for her man.
tocktick
Well-Known Member
I won't speak for myself either way but I know some women aren't into this (dude earning less). Period.
Imo, if you go for a guy who has the same outlook as you, this should not be an issue. Furthermore, I don't consider myself selfish. Thus, I wouldn't expect dinner or an expensive date all the time. I'm the kind who is more into interesting stuff that can be done for free to little money - gigs, museums, exhibitions, even just walking the park etc. I don't expect dinner at X pricey place each time. Tbh, if a guy always suggested we go there I'd 1) think he was trying too hard to flash cash 2) realise we probably don't have too much in common in the way of how we like to spend time and 3) think he was a little unimaginative.
It's a bit presumptuous to assume all women are blowing clothes on money and making themselves look good. Whilst painting the picture that dudes are going broke over lavishing cash and gifts on greedy and selfish women. Smart men invest their money in the right women, imo.
I'm a feminist - I think women are equal in terms of intelligence and capabilities. I believe women aren't the possession of men. I don't belive it is inherently a woman's job to follow after a man. I don't think women should be sexually objectified. But does that mean that I don't believe in marriage, believe a dude can hit a woman or that women are the same as men? No. Because we are equal but different, imo. I don't want to be a man, I want to be valued for being a woman!
Femininity (defintions vary, of course) is not a dirty thing that can be rejected, devalued or thought of as weak. If that means I expect my future husband to not think it's cool for him to be a house-husband while I'm the breadwinner or things like this, then oh well. Imo, there are extremes (in terms of being a radical feminist and being on the opposite side) and then there is a middle ground. I don't think it's contradictory to want to be equal but still hold some traditional views.
Imo, I think some people have an issue with this tip thing because they're working on the assumption that the dude approached them; thus he is the one pulling out the stops to impress and if he's going to spend their valuable time, then he should be on best behaviour. This is something that works for some women, for others it doesn't work etc. I think it's fine to pay tips, pay for dates etc when you're established as a couple. But in the beginning? Not really.
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kbody4
New Member
Choclatcotton
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but a man impresses me by being able to take care of business, so No. 1 is a no go.
As far as equal pay for equal rights, That came before my time and I am suffering now for women who wanted to be equal with men. If men still knew their place,( to take care of, lead and protect a woman and family) we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today. Men shirk the leadership role that God has naturally placed them in. Its still their role to pursue and win the woman with his ability to take care of business. I would not go out of my way to cook or clean for a man I am not married to. Men need go back to the basics and reclaim their Godly role of leadership not lordship.
As far as equal pay for equal rights, That came before my time and I am suffering now for women who wanted to be equal with men. If men still knew their place,( to take care of, lead and protect a woman and family) we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today. Men shirk the leadership role that God has naturally placed them in. Its still their role to pursue and win the woman with his ability to take care of business. I would not go out of my way to cook or clean for a man I am not married to. Men need go back to the basics and reclaim their Godly role of leadership not lordship.
See, I'm the anti-feminist. I hate the whole feminisim movement. I just think it did women, moreover, black women a major disservice. I've talked about it at length on the boards, but I do think that it's part of the reason BM don't know how to take care of a woman or aren't doing so.
After you sing "Independent women" for so long, it's like an atrophic limb or evolution....the idea becomes lost and morphs into something we didnt' really want to begin with.
chocolatethai
Well-Known Member
i dont really have a problem with most of the list i expect to be treated and am treated very well by my SO so i treat him well too, some of those items extend into the marriage realm tho and that's a no no. i dont cook or clean for my SO on a regular basis but i make my skills known
blue_flower
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't waste my time with a guy who believed that!
Summer_Rain
Well-Known Member
I have a sincere question. Here me out on this first, for starters I'm unmarried so disregard my opinion if that disqualifies me somehow. But some of the things on this list seem ok to me, when done either in moderation or just to show that you're capable of getting the job done so to speak (i.e. the occassional meal, helping him tidy up). But there are other things on this list that seem more like foundation type stuff to me. I can't see how the bulk of this list is something that should be reserved for marriage only, particularly since they seem like things one would want to know early on?
I dunno - I'm just having trouble seeing where the bulk of this article is off the mark. Explain it to me please...
I dunno - I'm just having trouble seeing where the bulk of this article is off the mark. Explain it to me please...
Ya know, when I was engaged the first time I remember him saying that if he did not see that I could do those things early on he never would have asked. Now I know I'm old fashioned but I just saying. We (me and Dh) also tell our younger brothers, male cousins, family and friends that they should be looking for some of these things in the women they seriously date. But again I'm old fashioned.
Summer_Rain
Well-Known Member
Ya know, when I was engaged the first time I remember him saying that if he did not see that I could do those things early on he never would have asked. Now I know I'm old fashioned but I just saying. We (me and Dh) also tell our younger brothers, male cousins, family and friends that they should be looking for some of these things in the women they seriously date. But again I'm old fashioned.
Ok...so these things make sense to you too? I tell you I have read the article a good 5 or 6 times waiting for something like 11. SUCKS A MEAN ONE! or 12. PAYS YOUR RENT FOR YOU or 13. BUYS YOU A CAR ON HER CREDIT to show up. But they never did.
If I want a man to know I'm on the up&up domestically - should I really make him wait till the day after our wedding to see it? But again - I'm not married so disregard me.
Truth be told, the underlying theme that I took away from his article was consideration and courtesy
Well I'm one of the few (or probably the only one) that said they didn't find anything wrong with the article. And ya'll know how I feel about getting your worth out of a man.
The core of it is basically about being thoughtful and doing little thoughful things in a relationship. It's been my experience, that when we do the small things, men are more likely to do the BIG things. That's why I don't see a big deal with what the guy was saying. Sure he didn't say it was his wife or LT girlfriend but I imagine that it would be small things like thoughtfulness that would set you apart from other women.
I think doing these things in a committed relationship would be normal? And not I'm not talking about marriage, I would and did cook for my dh before we got married. I'm not talking about playing wifey without the benefits either. I think we just take things to the extreme sometimes
There's gotta be a balance. When you got too far in one direction, like "I aint doing that, you're not my husband" well you're opening up a man to say yeah I'm not doing x,yz b/c you're not my wife either. Or doing too much for a man that isn't your dh and being a doormat of sorts. Somethings are just give and take, you would know what to do and what NOT to do for a man that wasn't worth it. I just don't like the extremes of it, that's all. I thought nothing was wrong with the article. I use an example of like hmmm...I cook for dh and pamper him and like he does big things that I want with no problem b/c it makes him feel good, IDK--again, IMO its not out of the realm of possibility that you would do these things for a man you were NOT married to.
Exactly what I got. Which didn't seem anything major to me AT ALL.
Bunny77
New Member
Another unmarried woman here, lol
For me, I think the problem was more with the examples that he used to make his point. If it was just the list, I probably would have said, okay cool, sounds fine to me.
I didn't like him talking about spotting a good woman based on random women cleaning up for a random man at random man's party, the woman fixing a meal for a sick dude who didn't appear to be her man but just a friend, women buying a guy they just started dating something, the whole chipping in on date stuff... again, the impression I got was not, "These are nice little things to do in a relationship," but "When I see random women doing this for men who they aren't with, I think they're good women."
I have a problem with the second part. In a relationship? Sure, I'm all for the little things, done in moderation, for a good man who deserves them. And as he continues to show his worth, you can step up the treats.
not the only one
I like the list.
Another unmarried woman here, lol
For me, I think the problem was more with the examples that he used to make his point. If it was just the list, I probably would have said, okay cool, sounds fine to me.
I didn't like him talking about spotting a good woman based on random women cleaning up for a random man at random man's party, the woman fixing a meal for a sick dude who didn't appear to be her man but just a friend, women buying a guy they just started dating something, the whole chipping in on date stuff... again, the impression I got was not, "These are nice little things to do in a relationship," but "When I see random women doing this for men who they aren't with, I think they're good women."
I have a problem with the second part. In a relationship? Sure, I'm all for the little things, done in moderation, for a good man who deserves them. And as he continues to show his worth, you can step up the treats.
I see where you're coming from.
Summer_Rain
Well-Known Member
Another unmarried woman here, lol
For me, I think the problem was more with the examples that he used to make his point. If it was just the list, I probably would have said, okay cool, sounds fine to me.
I didn't like him talking about spotting a good woman based on random women cleaning up for a random man at random man's party, the woman fixing a meal for a sick dude who didn't appear to be her man but just a friend, women buying a guy they just started dating something, the whole chipping in on date stuff... again, the impression I got was not, "These are nice little things to do in a relationship," but "When I see random women doing this for men who they aren't with, I think they're good women."
I have a problem with the second part. In a relationship? Sure, I'm all for the little things, done in moderation, for a good man who deserves them. And as he continues to show his worth, you can step up the treats.
I see your point Bunny. Some of his examples didn't bother me. You pointed out one example upthread about some women helping to straighten up after a party. Now FOR ME - I saw nothing wrong with that mostly because of how I was raised. We were always entertaining or hosting some event in my family. And if folks left without even pretending to toss a few items in the trash, they were a little bit trifiling. No one expected them to mop floors or take out the trash, but if there's a stack of cups beside you and the party is over, throwing them in the garbage is a nice gesture. So if I were to attend some random dudes party with my girls and we stayed around long enough to see him packing things away, I'd naturally offer to help.
I can understand that it isn't good to cater if you haven't even had 1.5 dates with a dude before he turns up sick and you're making home made soup. But I also don't think the blogger meant it that way either.
When I met my friendgirls new boyfriend 2 summers ago I told her "he's a good catch and the marrying kind, if that's what you want". When she decided she wanted him and asked for my advice. I mentioned some of things listed plus some and she was recently married, took 18 months but she got what she wanted, not really about 1 year, 6 months to plan/ unplan and do a quicky wedding. Now does that work on all men...no. The good southern men I'm use to...yes.
Like Zaynab says keep them warm and cozy, sexed up and stuffed with good food.
It'll do it everytime if that's what you want.
Bunny77
New Member
I'm probably analyzing this silly thang way too much...
And yeah, if I'm at a party, I'll throw away my stuff. Maybe something next to me too if I see it. That's just polite. But from this...
As the night was winding down, I noticed there were a handful of sisters that stepped up and started cleaning the kitchen and putting food away for him.
...I got the impression that they did a lot more than what you and your girls might have done. But again, maybe I'm overreading.
All I know is that nary nan man ever helped me tidy up when I threw a party and invited their hungry butts over for food and drink!!!
When they were ready to go, they said, "See ya Bunny! Great party!"
And they BOUNCED!
Summer_Rain
Well-Known Member
Not for nothing but you (speaking generally but specifically at the same time) have talked about your ideas of a good man and his qualifications, but you aren't with one currently either.
And I promise I don't mean that in a snide snarky way - I'm just saying, if people could only talk about the things they currently are experiencing then a good 75% of the folk participating in the thread need to delete their commentary.
Vanity1
Well-Known Member
OMG this post, its funny because before I started reading it, I thought of something this guy I once dated told me.
He had just taken me out on a very nice date, and I mean, we weren't to a level of seriousness yet, still getting to know one another. Anyway, he unlocked the door and opened my door before he got in the car. On his way around the truck, I unlocked his door, and he got in the car and said that I might be his wife one day. I was like, why? He said have you ever seen A Bronx Tale? I said yeah, he repeated the reason why he said what he said, and he said that part of the movie was on point.
It is so weird that this was one of the numbers in the article before I even read it
ETA: I am happy the author ended his list with "Fellas, I hope you know that this list goes both ways, and ladies, I hope y’all were listening and taking notes."
I think the conflict lies with our relationships is often we feel this sense of entitlement and don't want to bother to reciprocate. For a man to say that the list goes both ways says alot.
He had just taken me out on a very nice date, and I mean, we weren't to a level of seriousness yet, still getting to know one another. Anyway, he unlocked the door and opened my door before he got in the car. On his way around the truck, I unlocked his door, and he got in the car and said that I might be his wife one day. I was like, why? He said have you ever seen A Bronx Tale? I said yeah, he repeated the reason why he said what he said, and he said that part of the movie was on point.
It is so weird that this was one of the numbers in the article before I even read it
ETA: I am happy the author ended his list with "Fellas, I hope you know that this list goes both ways, and ladies, I hope y’all were listening and taking notes."
I think the conflict lies with our relationships is often we feel this sense of entitlement and don't want to bother to reciprocate. For a man to say that the list goes both ways says alot.
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Summer_Rain
Well-Known Member
I'm probably analyzing this silly thang way too much...
And yeah, if I'm at a party, I'll throw away my stuff. Maybe something next to me too if I see it. That's just polite. But from this...
As the night was winding down, I noticed there were a handful of sisters that stepped up and started cleaning the kitchen and putting food away for him.
...I got the impression that they did a lot more than what you and your girls might have done. But again, maybe I'm overreading.
All I know is that nary nan man ever helped me tidy up when I threw a party and invited their hungry butts over for food and drink!!!
When they were ready to go, they said, "See ya Bunny! Great party!"
And they BOUNCED!
@ the red bolded - depended on the event, if I had a good time & the mood I was in - I may have done the same!
Again, I just see it as a nice gesture. Now if an observing man sees it as me being a "good woman" thats on him. Similar threads
