Will you go to HEll if......

[Koffie]

You kill someone in the act of self defense?

I have been through some serious things in my lifetime, and I don't believe that I would care to go through that type of stuff again. If someone tried to attack me, kill or rape me, then I would do ALL in my power to defend myself and I would more than likely be trying to kill them so I wouldn't have to worry about that particular individual again.

Besides, I think I'd be doing the rest of the world a favor. (one less threat to humanity)


I know this might not sound right, but hey, its MY truth.

I can't help but to question why I feel this way.

 

[Enchantmt]

Self defense is not murder, so like in war, its not a sin. You have the right to protect yourself, your family, and your nation. ("Thou shall not kill" is actually best translated "Thou shall not murder") God does not leave us defenseless or expect us to be slaughtered at the hands of wicked men. There are some that will disagree (in the different denominations there is debate on this) but as far as I know, once you are saved you cant lose your salvation. (None shall be plucked from my hand) The only thing you go to hell for is rejecting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. (The unpardonable sin.)

 

[Koffie]

Self defense is not murder, so like in war, its not a sin. You have the right to protect yourself, your family, and your nation. ("Thou shall not kill" is actually best translated "Thou shall not murder") God does not leave us defenseless or expect us to be slaughtered at the hands of wicked men. There are some that will disagree (in the different denominations there is debate on this) but as far as I know, once you are saved you cant lose your salvation. (None shall be plucked from my hand) The only thing you go to hell for is rejecting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. (The unpardonable sin.)

Thank you Enchantmt.

I don't know if the person who has done the most evil to me is saved, (apart of me hopes he isn't) Hey, I'm being honest.

But I have already told the Lord, that if he ever comes near me trying to harm my body again, I will put his butt to rest. He must have had mad angels watching over him in spite of what he did to me. That was the purpose in me creating this board.

Oh yeah, Enchantmt, Where is that scripture: (None shall be plucked from my hand)?

 

[Enchantmt]

John 10:28

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

 

[Enchantmt]

Thank you Enchantmt.

I don't know if the person who has done the most evil to me is saved, (apart of me hopes he isn't) Hey, I'm being honest.

But I have already told the Lord, that if he ever comes near me trying to harm my body again, I will put his butt to rest. He must have had mad angels watching over him in spite of what he did to me. That was the purpose in me creating this board.

Oh yeah, Enchantmt, Where is that scripture: (None shall be plucked from my hand)?

You have to be careful because even though if this man were to try to hurt you and you needed to harm him to save yourself or a loved one, wishing ill on him is something different. It takes time to work though your emotions and the pain but as a Christian we are called to show forgiveness. Forgiveness is not condoning or excusing his behavior but you have to get to the point where you realize there is nothing he can do to repay the harm he has done, stop expecting repayment (not to be confused with justice), and stop wishing harm upon him. As long as you hold unforgiveness in your heart it hinders your walk with God. There is a bitterness that keeps you locked in the past, and it will prevent you from going foward and living fully. Its understandable to have those feelings, and if something violent happened to you its natural and will take longer to work though them, but God is able and will help you with this. It wont happen overnight. I'm not trying to condemn you or make you feel guilty about your emotions, again things like this take time, but also just be aware we are called to forgive and ask God for help in renewing your mind and spirit to get you to the point He wants you to be.

 

[Koffie]

John 10:28

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

Thank you!

The part that I have bolded relates to what a friend of mines and I were discussing. She believes that many people who claim to be Christians are going strait to Hell in a wooden boat and gasoline draws. She feels this way because they don't obey the teachings of Christ (have no regard even), but they claim Him.

She believes that once a man dies, and is out of the will of God during the
time of death, then his salvation is in question. What she is trying to say is that you just cant "get saved" and return to your old sinful ways, and think you're A-OK with God.

I kinda sorta agree to an extent, because I have read in the Bible about God declaring ones who are righteous to be ones that not only hear the word, but obey the word. Because anyone can hear the word. Do you get what I'm saying?

 

[Koffie]

You have to be careful because even though if this man were to try to hurt you and you needed to harm him to save yourself or a loved one, wishing ill on him is something different. It takes time to work though your emotions and the pain but as a Christian we are called to show forgiveness. Forgiveness is not condoning or excusing his behavior but you have to get to the point where you realize there is nothing he can do to repay the harm he has done, stop expecting repayment (not to be confused with justice), and stop wishing harm upon him. As long as you hold unforgiveness in your heart it hinders your walk with God. There is a bitterness that keeps you locked in the past, and it will prevent you from going foward and living fully. Its understandable to have those feelings, and if something violent happened to you its natural and will take longer to work though them, but God is able and will help you with this. It wont happen overnight. I'm not trying to condemn you or make you feel guilty about your emotions, again things like this take time, but also just be aware we are called to forgive and ask God for help in renewing your mind and spirit to get you to the point He wants you to be.

So how exactly can I stop with this fiasco?

I have done a lot of praying and crying, and crying and praying. I thank God for these boards and people like you Enchantmt, things here to help me.

I have tried to rebuke flashbacks of the incident, and redirect my anger to no avail.

I've tried to simply "forget about it and let it go" and all other advice given too.

I get what you are saying, but if he or anyone else comes tryin' to harm me, like I said, his butt is getting laid to rest.

 

[IntelligenceisBeautiful]

well I agree self-defense is not murder. But I don't think even a murderer will go to hell if he truly repents and asks God for forgiveness. God is that forgiving and merciful.

 

[AngelicRose07]

John 10:28

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

i really needed to hear this! not for murder reasons...but another personal issue, thanks!

 

[Honeyhips]

that is what I thought.

well I agree self-defense is not murder. But I don't think even a murderer will go to hell if he truly repents and asks God for forgiveness. God is that forgiving and merciful.

 

[Poohbear]

No. Only those who do not believe in Jesus will go to Hell.

 

[star]

I could not have said it better. AMEN!

Self defense is not murder, so like in war, its not a sin. You have the right to protect yourself, your family, and your nation. ("Thou shall not kill" is actually best translated "Thou shall not murder") God does not leave us defenseless or expect us to be slaughtered at the hands of wicked men. There are some that will disagree (in the different denominations there is debate on this) but as far as I know, once you are saved you cant lose your salvation. (None shall be plucked from my hand) The only thing you go to hell for is rejecting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. (The unpardonable sin.)

 

[Enchantmt]

So how exactly can I stop with this fiasco?

I have done a lot of praying and crying, and crying and praying. I thank God for these boards and people like you Enchantmt, things here to help me.

I have tried to rebuke flashbacks of the incident, and redirect my anger to no avail.

I've tried to simply "forget about it and let it go" and all other advice given too.

I get what you are saying, but if he or anyone else comes tryin' to harm me, like I said, his butt is getting laid to rest.

Its not a matter of forgetting, I dont think you will ever forget. God forgives and forgets, humans arent always able to do so. And if someone EVER tries to hurt you, its your right to protect yourself if you can. So don't ever let someone make you feel guilty for doing so.

If you have been trying to do this on your own it may help to go to a support group or even a grieving support group. God is all powerful and I dont want to minmize the results of prayer but God uses people to heal people too. A part of your innocence has been taken (whether or not you were a virgin), your boundaries have been violated, YOU have been violated. You have experienced a loss. There is going to be a lot of rage. That is your emotions telling you that you have been hurt. Your emotions, even the ones people would preceive as negative, are good. They are in place to help your protect yourself and for you to know when damage is being done or an injustice is being commited. Its ok to feel all this. You have to feel the anger, and the sadness and all the other steps like one would do if they had experienced a death before you can accept it and move on. Many people get angry with God for allowing things to happen. If you are angry with Him tell Him about it. Its natural to feel this way. God will restore you. Sometimes just releasing control to God will help. Its not going to happen overnight. Its going to take a while - especially if the person who hurt you was never brought to justice. You may still be trying to make them "pay". You will have a lot of emotions to work though. Once you sort everything out then you can get to the point where you can give forgiveness and move on.

As far as the scripture you will still have to do spiritual warfare to claim what the bible says about you. If you have thoughts that come to you saying you are soiled or spoiled, remind yourself that God can make all things new. When you have flashbacks and thoughts of confusion remind yourself that God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, that as a child of God being at peace is your birthright and claim it. Dont live in fear, shame or terror. When you cant sleep remind yourself that as a believer God has given you a promise of sound sleep. Psalms 4:8 - I will both lay me down in peace, and sleep: for thou, LORD, only makest me dwell in safety. Counteract all the negative thoughts that will come against you with what the bible says is truth. God wants to bring you through this. For I know the thoughts I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

I've been back to this thread but this is the first time I saw your response. Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

 

[Koffie]

Its not a matter of forgetting, I dont think you will ever forget. God forgives and forgets, humans arent always able to do so. And if someone EVER tries to hurt you, its your right to protect yourself if you can. So don't ever let someone make you feel guilty for doing so.

If you have been trying to do this on your own it may help to go to a support group or even a grieving support group. God is all powerful and I dont want to minmize the results of prayer but God uses people to heal people too. A part of your innocence has been taken (whether or not you were a virgin), your boundaries have been violated, YOU have been violated. You have experienced a loss. There is going to be a lot of rage. That is your emotions telling you that you have been hurt. Your emotions, even the ones people would preceive as negative, are good. They are in place to help your protect yourself and for you to know when damage is being done or an injustice is being commited. Its ok to feel all this. You have to feel the anger, and the sadness and all the other steps like one would do if they had experienced a death before you can accept it and move on. Many people get angry with God for allowing things to happen. If you are angry with Him tell Him about it. Its natural to feel this way. God will restore you. Sometimes just releasing control to God will help. Its not going to happen overnight. Its going to take a while - especially if the person who hurt you was never brought to justice. You may still be trying to make them "pay". You will have a lot of emotions to work though. Once you sort everything out then you can get to the point where you can give forgiveness and move on.

As far as the scripture you will still have to do spiritual warfare to claim what the bible says about you. If you have thoughts that come to you saying you are soiled or spoiled, remind yourself that God can make all things new. When you have flashbacks and thoughts of confusion remind yourself that God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, that as a child of God being at peace is your birthright and claim it. Dont live in fear, shame or terror. When you cant sleep remind yourself that as a believer God has given you a promise of sound sleep. Psalms 4:8 - I will both lay me down in peace, and sleep: for thou, LORD, only makest me dwell in safety. Counteract all the negative thoughts that will come against you with what the bible says is truth. God wants to bring you through this. For I know the thoughts I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

I've been back to this thread but this is the first time I saw your response. Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

Girl, you hit the nail on the head with EVERY word.

And yes, I have shouted out to God and asked him WHY did he will for this to happen to me, because this is a decision that I clearly did NOT make.

I saw my assualter about a year ago at my college campus, and what really burned me up is that instead of apologizing and being a man about it and growing from the situation, he exhibited ruthless characteristics and pointed me out to his frat brothers as though I was wrong for something. I was like "Uh, I didn't ask for you to put your hands on me in the first place!"

And you are right, I have tried to seek vengeance on this person, but it either made me look like I was wrong, or he would only harm me again.
I believe that he is a coward, due to the fact that I am smaller than him and he knows the match up is un-even. My heart tells me he is a disrespectful being.


I just thought God might be upset with me for my feeling this way.

My friend told me that since I let it hinder me, that its not his fault, but now it is my fault,

My mother and father tell me I should just 'get over it'
My mother even had the audacity to say, "Well you talked to other 'lil boys as you got older and did blah, blah, blah"
Mind you this happened when I was 6 and afraid to say something.

I'm like

I am sorry, but that is like telling somebody that a rape is OK if you are not a virgin.

Well I say he shouldn't have never done what he did, and this whole situation could have been avoided.

ETA: I am sorry to admit this, but I did let this event shadow many of the details of my life, thus leading me to failure at some very important and vulnerable times in my life.

 

[Koffie]

No. Only those who do not believe in Jesus will go to Hell.

The Devil believes in Jesus

 

[Enchantmt]

ETA: I am sorry to admit this, but I did let this event shadow many of the details of my life, thus leading me to failure at some very important and vulnerable times in my life.

Well now that you know whats going on you can take steps to protect and heal yourself. If you find you're holding yourself back you can recognize it and face any fears, make a decision and act. You arent powerless, though you may feel powerless at times. Your parents probably don't mean to be insensitive but they probably are having issues behind it as well. If you were 6 when this happened they are probably blaming themselves to a degree for not protecting you and are lashing out instead of voicing how they feel. Regardless, dont let them or the perpetrator turn the tables on you and make you feel like its your fault. No matter the circumstances, or your age, no means no. A lot of people who are sexually abused end up being sexually active, even while not wanting to. I would see if you have a group that meets locally that can help you. A lot of cities have a rape crises center that my have info on support groups. Good luck. I will keep you in my prayers for peace and healing.

 

[Enchantmt]

The Devil believes in Jesus

He "believes" in Him but he does not worship Him. I believe in Satan, meaning I believe that he exists, but I dont serve him. She means if you havent accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior, then you would perish.

 

[Koffie]

He "believes" in Him but he does not worship Him. I believe in Satan, meaning I believe that he exists, but I dont serve him. She means if you havent accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior, then you would perish.

Savior or both Lord and Savior????
Since a Lord dictates your life right?

Too many times I see folks so quick to Holla about Jesus, but they turn around and fornicate, steal, lie, etc....

That, in my opinion, is not an expression of Christ. And definately not a means of serving him.

 

[Koffie]

Well now that you know whats going on you can take steps to protect and heal yourself. If you find you're holding yourself back you can recognize it and face any fears, make a decision and act. You arent powerless, though you may feel powerless at times. Your parents probably don't mean to be insensitive but they probably are having issues behind it as well. If you were 6 when this happened they are probably blaming themselves to a degree for not protecting you and are lashing out instead of voicing how they feel. Regardless, dont let them or the perpetrator turn the tables on you and make you feel like its your fault. No matter the circumstances, or your age, no means no. A lot of people who are sexually abused end up being sexually active, even while not wanting to. I would see if you have a group that meets locally that can help you. A lot of cities have a rape crises center that my have info on support groups. Good luck. I will keep you in my prayers for peace and healing.

Thank you

 

[Poohbear]

The Devil believes in Jesus

Whether you go to heaven or hell also depends on predestination... whether you are one of God's chosen ones. If you are saved and written in the Book of Life, you will go to Heaven. When I said "believes in Jesus" I am talking about those who actually follow and live for Jesus as well as those who believe Jesus as the Son of God and Savior of our sins.

 

[Poohbear]

Savior or both Lord and Savior????
Since a Lord dictates your life right?

Too many times I see folks so quick to Holla about Jesus, but they turn around and fornicate, steal, lie, etc....

That, in my opinion, is not an expression of Christ. And definately not a means of serving him.

That's why there's forgiveness of sins once you become a Christian. God is gracious and merciful if you are sincere and repent of your sins. Remember, no Christian is perfect, nor sinless.

 

[Honeyhips]

Self defense is not murder, so like in war, its not a sin. You have the right to protect yourself, your family, and your nation. ("Thou shall not kill" is actually best translated "Thou shall not murder") God does not leave us defenseless or expect us to be slaughtered at the hands of wicked men. There are some that will disagree (in the different denominations there is debate on this) but as far as I know, once you are saved you cant lose your salvation. (None shall be plucked from my hand) The only thing you go to hell for is rejecting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. (The unpardonable sin.)

I thought you could lose your salvation.

 

[Koffie]

That's why there's forgiveness of sins once you become a Christian. God is gracious and merciful if you are sincere and repent of your sins. Remember, no Christian is perfect, nor sinless.

I understand that, but if there is blatant disreguard for Christ's teachings, and no form of conviction, and you just use forgiveness as ammunition to keep doing wrong, I don't understand.

I know no-one is perfect, but this PISSES me off to see folks in the church, yes the church, being adulterers, liars, gossips, womanizers, whoremongers and the like, putting on their THIS-IS-THE-WAY-WE-GO-TO-CHURCH Faces on Sunday, but Monday-Saturday you'd think they were the spawn of Satan.

 

[Koffie]

I thought you could lose your salvation.

I thought this too but, look (originally posted by Enchantmt):


John 10:28

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

"They follow me" leads me to believe that if you are TRULY Following God and that you want to please Him, thus you being in Christ Jesus are saved.

 

[Honeyhips]

Whether you go to heaven or hell also depends on predestination... whether you are one of God's chosen ones. If you are saved and written in the Book of Life, you will go to Heaven. When I said "believes in Jesus" I am talking about those who actually follow and live for Jesus as well as those who believe Jesus as the Son of God and Savior of our sins.

So how does one know if they have been predestined. And if you are predestined can you sin as much as you want, and still make it to heaven w/o repentance, or can you repent seconds before you die?

God wanted everyone to be saved, but he knew not everyone would choose him.

 

[Honeyhips]

So those folks who are in the church whoremongering (whatever else you said in the last post) are still saved and going to heaven? I'm assuming that they did get saved at one point.

I thought this too but, look (originally posted by Enchantmt):


John 10:28

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

"They follow me" leads me to believe that if you are TRULY Following God and that you want to please Him, thus you being in Christ Jesus are saved.

 

[Koffie]

So those folks who are in the church whoremongering (whatever else you said in the last post) are still saved and going to heaven? I'm assuming that they did get saved at one point.

I don't get this question, could you elaborate????

 

[Honeyhips]

Yeah I'm sorry. I was saying if I am saved and go to church faithfully every Sunday but I'm sleeping with a man, I can still go to Heaven if I were to die tonite? To me that is what is implied when you say you can't lose your salvation.

I don't get this question, could you elaborate????

 

[Poohbear]

I understand that, but if there is blatant disreguard for Christ's teachings, and no form of conviction, and you just use forgiveness as ammunition to keep doing wrong, I don't understand.

Koffie, I'm sure you yourself don't INTENTIONALLY sin. We are not to take advantage of God's forgiveness in anyway.

I know no-one is perfect, but this PISSES me off to see folks in the church, yes the church, being adulterers, liars, gossips, womanizers, whoremongers and the like, putting on their THIS-IS-THE-WAY-WE-GO-TO-CHURCH Faces on Sunday, but Monday-Saturday you'd think they were the spawn of Satan.

I understand and know what you're talking about. There's also been an debate about this... people who do CONTINUAL sins, their salvation is questioned.

 

[Poohbear]

So how does one know if they have been predestined. And if you are predestined can you sin as much as you want, and still make it to heaven w/o repentance, or can you repent seconds before you die?

God wanted everyone to be saved, but he knew not everyone would choose him.

It's a very difficult concept to explain so bear with me on this one...

Also understand that there is a big debate in churches today about predestination vs. people choosing their destiny... so some believe in predestination and some do not...

There is a difference between being saved from sin and being one of God's chosen ones. I'm going to use myself as an example. Before I confessed with my mouth and believed in my heart that Jesus was the Son of God and Savior, I was lost to sin. Even though one may be lost to sin doesn't necessarily mean they are not one of God's chosen ones.

But all of God's chosen ones will be saved before the end of time. So if you are saved, you have nothing to worry about. You will live for eternity in Heaven once you die a physical death.

And the whole idea with predestination is the fact that God is completely sovereign. Everything happens in accordance with His will. We can do NOTHING without Him. The people who believe that they 'choose' whether they want Jesus in their life, that's not true. People may say "I'm gonna wait to accept Jesus" and things similar to that but if you REALLY carefully think about it, God governs everything we do, whether it's a bad decision/choice. Gods will is the ONLY will. People will argue how we have free will and how we get to do what we want (similar to humanism), but God controls every single thing that happens to us.

Feel free to ask questions for clarification on anything.