Why is birth control/contraception wrong?

[Rainbow Dash]

But it's almost like birth control/NFP "intercepts" God's natural plan. In his word, God says...before you were in your mother's wound...I knew you....he knows the time, place, and date for each of us. So...if I was not meant to conceive on X date, God will not allow it to happen...because according to his plan, baby X was not supposed to be born at that time. Seems like intercepting it is like limiting God's control.QUOTE]

The sperm and ovum can't come together and form a child unless God allows it to do so...so if he permitted it...he permitted it....he says he forms us in our mother's womb. It's not a spontaneous process that we have to block. Just some thoughts.[/[/COLOR]QUOTE]



All day I have been hesitating to post my thoughts, this thread really got me thinking too...Looking back I'd say my remark was careless about the rhythm method, even though it's a healthy form of birth control it is still 'birth control' because even in that my husband I (if I had one) would still be in 'control' .

Yes, by all means pray consult God first when making any decision, but let’s say he wants to give you 5 and you only wanted 3 cause thats all your $32,000 can afford...shouldn't we trust that he can provide for us and the 5 that he blessed us with...I think it's a matter of trust, yes trust, trusting God with the little seemingly insignificant things like birth control.

I see the concern on both sides, so my question is; are we really trusting God in this matter when we limit him in our finance and so called logical thinking, or are we limiting him working in our lives…

This is the question right here. Knowing that we are to surrender to God and that God has also given us free will. I believe that we should make it our practice to ask God on every matter but sometimes we miss it. I know I have. This is why discussions like this matter.

Real life situation: I know a lady who has 6 kids with her husband. She is a Christian. Her husband is an alcoholic, has been that way for a long time but they kept having babies. Do you think that it was wise for her to continue to have these babies with this man, even though he is her husband?

She is in the worst financial situation. She always needs money, utilities are always in danger of being discontinued unless someone like myself and others step in. Kids sometimes do not have coats. One child would cry because his feet were hurting. His shoes were too small. To me this is where some common wisdom may have been necessary. They were struggling when they had the first 2 or 3. I don't want to put her down, the babies are already here but they struggle often and she has cried many times because she can't take care of them without assistance from others. I have even cried over her situation but I tell her to trust God and help when I can.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

@Alicialynn86 that was not my intention at all...I'm not against planning, but we must be so open to God that he can interrupt our plans also so trusting in him that he will provide for us with 2 or 7 ...

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

I completely understand what you are saying...but I can't speak to whether she and her husband consulted God on how much children they would like or how much he would allow them to have ...sometimes even though we are Christians we choose which matters we want God's assistance in and the others we choose to handle them ourselves...

^^I think that for health reasons it's understandable, if the husband and wife presented this to God and God was in agreement. And if they couldn't perceive an answer, yes, wisdom is the principal thing! I agree! However, for women who do not have health issues...I was thinking about the two ladies who said they got pregnant while on birth control...it made me feel like God was "overriding" something that was blocked. And it made me think of Fred Hammond's testimony. His mother had an abortion, twice to removed the conceptus, but both attempts failed. God had a plan for Fred Hammond but he had to "override" what was done. And the fact, the he overrode made me feel like this action was "against" his will or at least not permitting him to control the process of creation. We could argue that, If God wanted individuals to still have children while on NFP/birth control...he can make it happen. Which is true. But with obviously God's does not always block the free will of individuals who decide to have an abortion. Its possible that "missed" pregnancies are taking place by abstaining. There's the scripture that says that husband and wife should only refuse to come together for the purpose of fasting/prayer or something like that. Not to prevent pregnancy. And of course, the scripture about Onan spilling the seed...which is like birth control.

Someone mentioned Paul being single, and therefore avoiding the conception process. But Paul was submitted to God's will. Likewise, married people should submit to God's will. I think in the end it's all about God having control. And of course, it does not necessarily mean that everyone will have 10 kids. Maybe you would only have 3 or 4 as the Lord permits. The sperm and ovum can't come together and form a child unless God allows it to do so...so if he permitted it...he permitted it....he says he forms us in our mother's womb. It's not a spontaneous process that we have to block. Just some thoughts.

But it's almost like birth control/NFP "intercepts" God's natural plan. In his word, God says...before you were in your mother's wound...I knew you....he knows the time, place, and date for each of us. So...if I was not meant to conceive on X date, God will not allow it to happen...because according to his plan, baby X was not supposed to be born at that time. Seems like intercepting it is like limiting God's control.QUOTE]

This is the question right here. Knowing that we are to surrender to God and that God has also given us free will. I believe that we should make it our practice to ask God on every matter but sometimes we miss it. I know I have. This is why discussions like this matter.

Real life situation: I know a lady who has 6 kids with her husband. She is a Christian. Her husband is an alchoholic, has been that way for a long time but they kept having babies. Do you think that it was wise for her to continue to have these babies with this man, even though he is her husband?

She is in the worst financial situation. She always needs money, utilities are always in danger of being discontinued unless someone like myself and others step in. Kids sometimes do not have coats. One child would cry because his feet were hurting. His shoes were too small. To me this is where some common wisdom may have been necessary. They were struggling when they had the first 2 or 3. I don't want to put her down, the babies are already here but they struggle often and she has cried many times because she can't take care of them without assistance from others. I have even cried over her situation but I tell her to trust God and help when I can.

 

[loolalooh]

Onan displeased the Lord by refusing an heir to his brother who the Lord killed. I can see how we can take Onan's story as a reason not to use BC/NFP. However, one could argue that Onan's sin wasn't that he "spilled his seed" ... his sin was that he refused to fulfill the Lord's plan. Thus, we displease the Lord when we refuse to partake in His plan. His plan could be for us to conceive .... or it could be for us to stop conceiving ... or it could be for us to conceive at a particular time (e.g. Abram and Sarah).

I don't know. What are your thoughts on Onan's story?

Genesis 38
8 And Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and marry her, and raise up an heir to your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the heir would not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in to his brother’s wife, that he emitted on the ground, lest he should give an heir to his brother. 10 And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; therefore He killed him also.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

I wanted to discuss Onan a few weeks back in the oral sex thread ...

Onan's sin was in preventing his brother from having a heir because he purposely allowing his seed to fall to the ground, God killed Onan for it...

Onan is an interesting story. But I'm not sure that those who are against BC/NFP have a valid basis with this story. I need to go and re-read it, but I think Onan's sin was something else ... Be right back.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

I completely understand what you are saying...but I can't speak to whether she and her husband consulted God on how much children they would like or how much he would allow them to have ...sometimes even though we are Christians we choose which matters we want God's assistance in and the others we choose to handle them ourselves...

Good point. To me using precautions is not ungodly, it can be wise in some situations, especially the one I mentioned. Now that the kids are here, God has given her grace to make it even though it is a struggle.

This is why I'm thankful for His Grace. Even though we mess things up and there are consequences, He continues to give us grace to make it and overcome.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

loolaloohoops so we typed that at the same time, I time we need to study the importance of the 'seed' to God so we can get a better idea of why Onan was killed, actually this story which I read a few times before changed my views on oral sex ...

 

[sidney]

I wanted to discuss Onan a few weeks back in the oral sex thread ...

Onan's sin was in preventing his brother from having a heir because he purposely allowing his seed to fall to the ground, God killed Onan for it...

It seems like NFP to me, witholding to prevent pregnancy...but it's unclear if he was punished for disobedience in general.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Onan displeased the Lord by refusing an heir to his brother who the Lord killed. I can see how we can take Onan's story as a reason not to use BC/NFP. However, one could argue that Onan's sin wasn't that he "spilled his seed" ... his sin was that he refused to fulfill the Lord's plan. Thus, we displease the Lord when we refuse to partake in His plan. His plan could be for us to conceive .... or it could be for us to stop conceiving ... or it could be for us to conceive at a particular time (e.g. Abram and Sarah).

I don't know. What are your thoughts on Onan's story?

Genesis 38
8 And Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and marry her, and raise up an heir to your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the heir would not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in to his brother’s wife, that he emitted on the ground, lest he should give an heir to his brother. 10 And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; therefore He killed him also.

This is interesting. This is the only recorded story of a situation like this in scripture. I'm inclined to believe that there is more to this. Maybe Onan received such swift destruction because the Lord sent the Word to him and he decided to disobey God, as though God could not see what He was doing.

Did he think that he thought he was fooling God and that God could not see him spill the seed?

Reminds me of Ananias and Sapphira when they lied to the Holy Spirit.

 

[sidney]

@Alicialynn86 that was not my intention at all...I'm not against planning, but we must be so open to God that he can interrupt our plans also so trusting in him that he will provide for us with 2 or 7 ...

Good Lord...I'm struggling....pray for me.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

Health&hair28 I don't think he thought he would be killed over it ...but you know the custom in that day if your brother died before he had an heir then you would sleep with your brothers wife so that your brothers line would go on ...

I guess Uzzah fel the same way when he reach out to prevent the ark from falling ...two different stories two different reasonings

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

just a number I threw out there don't be like NK's granparents who had more than 10 children Lord have mercy...

Good Lord...I'm struggling....pray for me.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

@Health&hair28 I don't think he thought he would be killed over it ...but you know the custom in that day if your brother died before he had an heir then you would sleep with your brothers wife so that your brothers line would go on ...

I guess Uzzah fel the same way when he reach out to prevent the ark from falling ...two different stories two different reasonings

Yep, I thought about Uzzah's story too. Makes you wonder. But think about, they were both killed because they ultimately disobeyed the commands for the customs that God appointed for them. In the Old Testament, grace was not like it is today. If many of us lived in the olden days, I believe we would have been killed or stoned.

Lord, thank you for your grace.

 

[sidney]

just a number I threw out there don't be like NK's granparents who had more than 10 children Lord have mercy...

I remember doing times tables...I know what "multiply"means...I'm struggling right now

 

[Rainbow Dash]

I remember doing times tables...I know what "multiply"means...I'm struggling right now

I know some you ladies do not have kids but they are fun, sometimes. They add to your life and they also make sure you bear fruit. They will let you know if you are really saved and husbands too. You can be in worship one minute and be right back in your flesh, having to repent. But they are truly blessings.

 

[sidney]

I know some you ladies do not have kids but they are fun, sometimes. They add to your life and they also make sure you bear fruit. They will let you know if you are really saved and husbands too. You can be in worship one minute and be right back in your flesh, having to repent. But they are truly blessings.

 

[loolalooh]

I know some you ladies do not have kids but they are fun, sometimes. They add to your life and they also make sure you bear fruit. They will let you know if you are really saved and husbands too. You can be in worship one minute and be right back in your flesh, having to repent. But they are truly blessings.

If I think about the many times I sent my parents back in their flesh ...

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

girl and don't forget the priests who had to go in on the peoples behalf with bells on thier clothing and a robe around their ankles if any sin was found in him he was killed, when the bells stop ringing it meant that the priest was dead and so they would pull him out by the rope..

I concur, thank you for grace father!!!!

Yep, I thought about Uzzah's story too. Makes you wonder. But think about, they were both killed because they ultimately disobeyed the commands for the customs that God appointed for them. In the Old Testament, grace was not like it is today. If many of us lived in the olden days, I believe we would have been killed or stoned.

Lord, thank you for your grace.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

Sidney your quiver is full to capacity..lol

 

[sidney]

Sidney your quiver is full to capacity..lol

Girl!!! Lol! Seriously though, I'm going to pray about this tonight. I will post if I get anything. He gives wisdom to those that ask for it.

 

[sidney]

^^^Clearly, I'm fighting it lol! Pray for me lol. But I will pray about it tonight...

 

[sidney]

Psalm 127:3-5.
Behold, children are a gift of the Lord; The fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them; They shall not be ashamed, When they speak with their enemies in the gate.

Yeah I saw that scripture Iwanthealthyhair67

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Psalm 127:3-5.
Behold, children are a gift of the Lord; The fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them; They shall not be ashamed, When they speak with their enemies in the gate.

Yeah I saw that scripture @Iwanthealthyhair67

Good scripture. I remember people used to pick on me at church. They would say, "you just keep having babies." I had them kind of close together. I had an infant, a one year old, and a 4 year old. And yes they are all really a blessing.

 

[sidney]

Hey ladies i did pray about it and god spoke to me in a dream about this thread. He was speaking but i saw the words typed out as if i was posting it here. He said, "many will say, I will not! Only to look back and see eight children, and realize they are blessed." Then I saw John 10:10.

Now when God does speak to me in dreams they are themes...not necessarily absolutes. It doesn't necessarily mean one will have eight children but rather confirms what was shared here. If anyone else hears anthing post it. Also I had to look to see what johns 10:10 was. I dont have it comitted to memory.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Hey ladies i did pray about it and god spoke to me in a dream about this thread. He was speaking but i saw the words typed out as if i was posting it here. He said, "many will say, I will not! Only to look back and see eight children, and realize they are blessed." Then I saw John 10:10.

Now when God does speak to me in dreams they are themes...not necessarily absolutes. It doesn't necessarily mean one will have eight children but rather confirms what was shared here. If anyone else hears anthing post it. Also I had to look to see what johns 10:10 was. I dont have it comitted to memory.

Wow. I am sitting here listening to Priscilla Shirer preach and she just hit on John 10:10. Praise God.

 

[loolalooh]

I stumbled upon John 10:10 the other day in one of the other threads. Interesting ...

 

[aribell]

Something I heard yesterday seemed relevant to the discussion here. It was the exchange between the Lord and Abraham, which Sarah overheard, when she laughed at hearing that she would bear a child in her old age. The Lord asked her why she laughed and she tried to deny it. God had a plan for her that seemed unrealistic and likely ridiculous to her, so she scoffed at the idea. Gen. 18:9-15

I felt myself continually being "checked" in my spirit with my responses here because it was too easy to laugh away the thought of genuinely being open to having however many children as the Lord may deem good, without adding on my own thoughts about what is reasonable to it.

Mary, in a much stranger position than Sarah, did not scoff, but said "Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be done unto me according to your word." Luke 1:38

eta: This post was purely a reflection on my own attitide and not at all that of any other woman here.

 

[sidney]

Something I heard yesterday seemed relevant to the discussion here. It was the exchange between the Lord and Abraham, which Sarah overheard, when she laughed at hearing that she would bear a child in her old age. The Lord asked her why she laughed and she tried to deny it. God had a plan for her that seemed unrealistic and likely ridiculous to her, so she scoffed at the idea. Gen. 18:9-15

I felt myself continually being "checked" in my spirit with my responses here because it was too easy to laugh away the thought of genuinely being open to having however many children as the Lord may deem good, without adding on my own thoughts about what is reasonable to it.

Mary, in a much stranger position than Sarah, did not scoff, but said "Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be done unto me according to your word." Luke 1:38

eta: This post was purely a reflection on my own attitide and not at all that of any other woman here.

Wow, GREAT post! I didn't even intend to post in this thread at first because my mind was already made up. And unlike yourself, I did actually "laugh" at the though of potentially having serial pregnancies. But, I am humbled by this thread and I thank the ladies who did not compromise the truth of Gods word. Thank you, I found another area in which I can submit to God.

 

[Galadriel]

It seems like NFP to me, witholding to prevent pregnancy...but it's unclear if he was punished for disobedience in general.

With NFP you abstain from intercourse during your window of fertility. What Onan did was engage in intercourse and then withdrew so that the "full marital act" was not completed.

 

[Galadriel]

I am personally convicted against NFP (except in instances where it may done for medical reasons). The day that I get married is the same day that I become available to have children, so I personally won't practice NFP. To me, there is no difference between the various types of birth control.

I do believe in using wisdom when it comes to bringing a child into this world, but that wisdom comes in the form of: "Should I wait until marriage?", "Should I marry this man?", "Should I take this career path?", etc. It doesn't come in the form of "Should I use birth control?". I believe that if we follow God's instructions in all those areas, He will set up our path such that the child shall lack of nothing.

This is just my personal belief.

Matthew 6
30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

loolalooh I respect your view on this, though I'd disagree (I'm a married NFP user). Your argument rests on the premise that there never any justified reasons for a married couple to 1) periodically abstain or 2) space the births of their children.

I would argue that both #1 and #2 are morally legitimate, and NFP works in harmony with both of these without violating the completion of the full marital act and without the use of abortifacients.

The reason is that the fundamental nature of the marriage act, while uniting husband and wife in the closest intimacy, also renders them capable of generating new life—and this as a result of laws written into the actual nature of man and of woman. And if each of these essential qualities, the unitive and the procreative, is preserved, the use of marriage fully retains its sense of true mutual love and its ordination to the supreme responsibility of parenthood to which man is called. We believe that our contemporaries are particularly capable of seeing that this teaching is in harmony with human reason. (Humanae Vitae)

The purpose of marriage is two-fold--unity and creation. Sexual love between husband and wife binds them in intimacy and joy while at the same time giving them the potential to generate new life. Artificial birth control or contraception negates or violates God's design for man and woman in marriage because it rejects the creative side of sex.

How? Well, by directly preventing procreation.

We also have very serious and negative consequences in our society because of contraceptive use (the below is also from Humanae Vitae, bolded is my emphasis):

Consequences of Artificial Methods​

17. Responsible men can become more deeply convinced of the truth of the doctrine laid down by the Church on this issue if they reflect on the consequences of methods and plans for artificial birth control. Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards. Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need incentives to keep the moral law, and it is an evil thing to make it easy for them to break that law.



Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection.


Finally, careful consideration should be given to the danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities who care little for the precepts of the moral law. Who will blame a government which in its attempt to resolve the problems affecting an entire country resorts to the same measures as are regarded as lawful by married people in the solution of a particular family difficulty? Who will prevent public authorities from favoring those contraceptive methods which they consider more effective? Should they regard this as necessary, they may even impose their use on everyone. It could well happen, therefore, that when people, either individually or in family or social life, experience the inherent difficulties of the divine law and are determined to avoid them, they may give into the hands of public authorities the power to intervene in the most personal and intimate responsibility of husband and wife.