Spinoff: Trinity...is or isn't?
- Thread starter DelightfulFlame
- Start date
pookeylou
New Member
pebbles said:
I think this question is for me:
I believe Jesus Christ is Lord.
I believe what Jesus said, "The father is greater than I am" John 14:28
I believe that God is the Almighty.
I believe Jesus is the Son of God.
I believe you can only approach God in prayer through Jesus Christ.
I believe that God allowed His beloved son to come to earth and die for all mankind to redeem us from sin and death.
I believe that Holy spirit is not a god but God's active force and power.
According to the scriptures I have read...they are seperate.
Jesus at no time claimed to be equal to God. I cannot find that anywhere in the scriptures. He always claimed to be Gods Son.
DelightfulFlame
New Member
pebbles said:
You are asking me to do something that you don't seem to be doing. Open up your heart and receive what is being said. Why? Because it doesn't line up with your Spirit. Even though the TRUTH is the same b/c God does not change, He has chosen to reveal different things to us at different times.
If it is so clear cut and revealed the same to everyone, then why are there so many different interpretations and questions in this thread alone? What is the need to discuss anything? We would all think and see the same things, correct? But since we don't...
...and I am not the only one who doesn't get the Trinity concept.
So since I don't get it, everyone is supposed to stop discussing it with me?
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
@pookeylou...
Trinity does not mean they are the same... it simply means "3-in-1"...they are one in esssence and nature...that does not mean they are the same.
And if they are 3 separate supernatural beings...where did Jesus and the Holy Spirit come from if they are not a part of God??? And how can you believe Jesus is the Son of God if you do not believe that Jesus was God and that they are one in essence and nature?
Trinity does not mean they are the same... it simply means "3-in-1"...they are one in esssence and nature...that does not mean they are the same.
And if they are 3 separate supernatural beings...where did Jesus and the Holy Spirit come from if they are not a part of God??? And how can you believe Jesus is the Son of God if you do not believe that Jesus was God and that they are one in essence and nature?
DelightfulFlame
New Member
Poohbear said:@pookeylou...
Trinity does not mean they are the same... it simply means "3-in-1"...they are one in esssence and nature...that does not mean they are the same.
And if they are 3 separate supernatural beings...where did Jesus and the Holy Spirit come from if they are not a part of God??? And how can you believe Jesus is the Son of God if you do not believe that Jesus was God and that they are one in essence and nature?
Where did we come from? God made us. Are we the same as the Father?
What does believing that Jesus is the Son of God have to do with believing that He is the Father? Jesus was also the son of Mary, but I don't believe that she is the Father.
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
You just said you disagree with much of what has been said... what is there to discuss? What do you want? What do you believe? Many ladies here have tried to tell you what trinity acutally is. Of course it's a term that man made to describe this concept of the Bible. I think the reason there are so many different interpretations and questions is because many people have different definitions of trinity set in their mind. And also the fact that no one completely gets it. But it's in His word that God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So what is there to question? I admit that I don't get how God can be 3-in-1...it's because of our human nature and the capacity of our human minds. Believing in God as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a part of the Christian faith.DelightfulFlame said:
DelightfulFlame
New Member
The question is whether or not that is actually in His word. Just because the Christian faith says so doesn't make it right. The Christian faith also said it was okay to steal land and enslave people, so I really don't take what they say as gospel.
Because I don't understand it, and it doesn't make sense. I'm just supposed to accept it? Sorry, I did that for 26 years. It doesn't work for me any longer.
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
Good question! Here's my best stab at it... God created us in His image... God sent Jesus (which was a part of Him) to save the world. We (human beings) do not have divine power and do not have the power to take the punishment for the sin of this whole world. That's how you know Jesus was God because of His POWER!!! Yes Jesus prayed to God (the Father), but it was as a HUMAN when he was dying on the cross. Do you not believe that Jesus was both divine and human at the same time???DelightfulFlame said:
Jesus is the Son of God...God is the Father. When Jesus was on earth, he was God in HUMAN FORM. Mary was not sent from God and does not have divine power.
DelightfulFlame
New Member
Yes, Jesus was God and Human. He was born of God and Human. I wouldn't expect him to be a dog and human.
How does that make Him the Father?
How does that make Him the Father?
DelightfulFlame
New Member
Poohbear said:
Yes, I have been consulting the bible. I haven't been quoting the Koran in the last 10 or 11 pages. The bible does not say Trinity to me.
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
The Bible doesn't say Trinity to me either! It's just a term used to describe the concept. You must have the wrong definition of trinity in your mind. It does not mean they are all the same...it just means God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one in ESSENCE and NATURE.DelightfulFlame said:
If you are a Christian with faith, you will accept His Word no matter how much you think it seems unclear, nonsense, or confusing. Yes, I can admit it's hard to accept His Word... even the thought of God being the Alpha and Omega...being here before the world was even created! Even the fact that Jesus died for our sins and is living in Christian hearts today! Whether there is a heaven or hell! But it's ALL ABOUT HAVING FAITH! Keep praying and especially ask for an increase in faith.
JenJen2721
New Member
pookeylou said:
The bible says different:
John 10:29-30
29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
DelightfulFlame
New Member
One what?
First it talks about how the Father is greater than all. Even Jesus said the Father was greater than Him.
My problem with this scripture is that I don't know the language of the time. I can't just assume that it is saying that Jesus is the Father when there are many more scriptures that don't say that.
I and my boss are one.
I and my husband are one.
I and my daughter are one.
All of those are true. See what I mean?
First it talks about how the Father is greater than all. Even Jesus said the Father was greater than Him.
My problem with this scripture is that I don't know the language of the time. I can't just assume that it is saying that Jesus is the Father when there are many more scriptures that don't say that.
I and my boss are one.
I and my husband are one.
I and my daughter are one.
All of those are true. See what I mean?
DelightfulFlame
New Member
Poohbear said:The Bible doesn't say Trinity to me either! It's just a term used to describe the concept. You must have the wrong definition of trinity in your mind. It does not mean they are all the same...it just means God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one in ESSENCE and NATURE.
If you are a Christian with faith, you will accept His Word no matter how much you think it seems unclear, nonsense, or confusing. Yes, I can admit it's hard to accept His Word... even the thought of God being the Alpha and Omega...being here before the world was even created! Even the fact that Jesus died for our sins and is living in Christian hearts today! Whether there is a heaven or hell! But it's ALL ABOUT HAVING FAITH! Keep praying and especially ask for an increase in faith.
I do have faith. I do accept the Word, but not blindly. In the Word it says to prove all things, seek and find, etc. I do pray, and I have faith that God will reveal to me what He wants me to know. I do not have faith in everything that man has said about God. And I don't care what he claims to be...Christian or otherwise. I have to know for myself.
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
Yes that is true that the FATHER is GREATER THAN ALL...EVEN Jesus!!!DelightfulFlame said:
God and Jesus are DIVINE BEINGS!!!! God just happen to be human (as Jesus) at one point of this lifetime!
You, your boss, husband, and daughter are human beings. It's okay to see yourself as one with family members since you're all related to each other. Plus a husband and wife are ONE because of marriage. I don't know about your boss...if you wanna be one with him, that's all on you!
Do you see these people as greater than you or something??? What point are you trying to making with saying your are one with all those people??? That's totally different with God and Jesus being one. Didn't you see the scripture that JenJen just posted where Jesus said he was one with the Father??? 
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JenJen2721
New Member
pookeylou said:
John 1:3 Says the Word was the creator of all things:
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
ALSO
Colossians 1:15-17 Describes Jesus as the creator:
The Supremacy of Christ
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
---------
These scriptures are saying that Jesus was the Creator.
Job 33:4 Describes the Holy Spirit as being the Creator:
4 The Spirit of God has made me;
the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
According to these scriptures and others posted confirming the Father is the creator...if they are not all the same then there must be three Gods, working together....but that can't be true because they each created everything, which means they are one in the same. For instance, I can create an apple pie...my sister then can't go and make the same exact apple pie I created.
Make sense?
DelightfulFlame
New Member
First you say that the Father is greater, then you say that they are the same.
How can = be the same as > ?
And how does the Father who is not man (Numbers 23:19), just happen to be human?
How can = be the same as > ?
And how does the Father who is not man (Numbers 23:19), just happen to be human?
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
So are you saying many Christians here are accepting the word blindly??? Yes we are to seek to find and ask to receive but faith is all about believing in the UNSEEN. Plus, Jesus wasn't just a man that CLAIMED to be certain things... HE WAS (my belief)!DelightfulFlame said:
For example, how would one know that heaven really exist? If God really exist? You can do all the seeking you want, but there is NO WAY you will find out for yourself until you die. You have to have FAITH that there is a heaven and that there is a God. God has revealed everything he wants us to know for right now IN THE BIBLE...HIS HOLY WORD!!!
pebbles
New Member
DelightfulFlame said:
Is it fair to say that the majority on this thread are in agreement? I think it is. I'm not telling anyone to stop discussing it with you. If they want to continue, that's fine. There won't be any closed or locked threads in the Christianity forum. What I am saying is that if you have a clearly set view, and I think you do, and someone else has another view, and the two cannot or will not meet, I do not see the point in continuing with explanations that will lead to more confussion. Do you see at all what I'm saying? I do not believe that brings honor and glory to God. I think it's best to agree to disagree. I said already, this is my personal view. Keep asking your questions, if you want. I'm not stopping you from doing so. I'm only asking others to recognize when a discussion has run it's course.
JenJen2721
New Member
DelightfulFlame said:
One God.
The example of you and your husband being ONE is a perfect example. You both are ONE in marriage. The bible supports this...even though there are two persons in a marriage, there's still only ONE marriage. Just as there is only ONE God.
DelightfulFlame
New Member
Poohbear said:
No...I didn't say anything about all Christians here. I said what I (ME) cannot do. Yes, I do know that there are things that are unseen, but what I can see...the Word...I must seek to find meaning for.
I haven't seen heaven yet. Maybe I will, but just haven't yet (John did while he was still alive). I don't put limitations on God. That doesn't mean that I should just sit back and be satisfied with not knowing. How will I ever know anything if I don't try to find out? (remember the story of the talents, and the servant hid his in the ground instead of investing it?)
DelightfulFlame
New Member
JenJen2721 said:
I agree, there is one source, the Father. Everything and everyone else comes from him (including Jesus and the Holy Spirit).
DelightfulFlame
New Member
pebbles said:
what does agreement mean? Not a lot of people agreed with Jesus...in fact I'm sure He was in the minority when He lived.
How does studying the Word bring dishonor to God?
And if people are still discussing, then how does that show that a discussion has run it's course?
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
No one is saying you need to just sit back and be satisfied with not knowing. I just said that it's true that we are to seek in order to find out. Hopefully you will be blessed from HIS WORD and NOTHING ELSE!!! No, the ladies here are NOT God or anything like that. But we are all trying to help you understand what God's word is saying...not based on what WE THINK but what GOD THINKS!!!DelightfulFlame said:
pebbles
New Member
DelightfulFlame said:
Please highlight where I said that studying the Word of God brings dishonor to the Father. Agreement means that most people have the same understanding. Whether people agreed with Jesus or not isn't being argued. He is Lord, He knew what He was talking about. The Word says to believe in Him, not agree with Him. Whether it made sense or not, we are to believe.
A discussion has run it's course when the two opposing views are not bending or yielding or coming to an understanding. But I've told you already, if you want to continue, please do so.
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
Those people that did not agree with Jesus DID NOT BELIEVE in Jesus...most Christians I know AGREE with Jesus since they have accepted him as Lord and Savior...DelightfulFlame said:
She's not saying studying the Word brings dishonor to God... in this thread, you have not been trying to study the Word...you are questioning God and causing confusion with his word and not tried to understand anything anyone has said. You have just posted several scriptures back to back to show how confusing and how they dont feel right with YOUR spirit and how they don't make sense. THAT does not honor God!
The ladies here are still discussing because they probably have hope that they can help you understand....it's up to you whether you choose to agree with the Bible and what God says in his holy Word!
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