Soooo I was watching Creflo talk about a recording of hell

Would it be completely satanic for me to wonder if God has created another race of people and world and bible at another point before he created Earth for this race of people?

Curious to know your thoughts...

I just wonder about things like that because I am fascinated with life outside of earth and the spirit realm. Its a healthy interest, I dont mess with stuff God speaks against.
 
Would it be completely satanic for me to wonder if God has created another race of people and world and bible at another point before he created Earth for this race of people?

Curious to know your thoughts...

I just wonder about things like that because I am fascinated with life outside of earth and the spirit realm. Its a healthy interest, I dont mess with stuff God speaks against.
That's an excellent question, because I've wondered that too. When I was in college and took earth science classes, there were a lot of questions regarding life on other planets, or pre-existing life on earth, long before ours.

I think your question is quite healthy. My answer is quite vain though, in respect that God did away with the others just to make me. :rolleyes: :lol:

Welllllllllllllllllll, He did. :yep::yep::yep:

And you too, and Pebbles, and Nice & Wavy, and Foxy Scholar, and msa, and Mselle, and blazingthru, and EbonyhairedPrincess, and Divya, and Crown, and MeccaMedinah, and momi, and Almaz, and sunnysmyler, and me again, and..................... err' body. :yep::yep::yep:

Well He did. Afterall, we're the only ones, here on earth, that Jesus died for....:yep:
 
Would it be completely satanic for me to wonder if God has created another race of people and world and bible at another point before he created Earth for this race of people?

Curious to know your thoughts...

I just wonder about things like that because I am fascinated with life outside of earth and the spirit realm. Its a healthy interest, I dont mess with stuff God speaks against.


I am going to comment because I am not sure its sinful or even beneficial to think on those things. I don't think on those things. I have this scripture below of things we should be thinking on. I am not sure being concerned or even curious about other worlds and the spirit realm is helpful to you. I am sure you can ask God whatever questions you could possilble have about this world and any other worlds he might have created when you meet him but right now We need all our focused to be on our relationship with the Lord and helping those around us as well-- as the time is drawing near and near to God be the glory
Philippians 4:


4 Always be full of joy in the Lord. I say it again—rejoice! 5 Let everyone see that you are considerate in all you do. Remember, the Lord is coming soon.

6 Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. 7 Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus. 8 And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. 9 Keep putting into practice all you learned and received from me—everything you heard from me and saw me doing. Then the God of peace will be with you.
 
I am going to comment because I am not sure its sinful or even beneficial to think on those things. I don't think on those things. I have this scripture below of things we should be thinking on. I am not sure being concerned or even curious about other worlds and the spirit realm is helpful to you. I am sure you can ask God whatever questions you could possilble have about this world and any other worlds he might have created when you meet him but right now We need all our focused to be on our relationship with the Lord and helping those around us as well-- as the time is drawing near and near to God be the glory
Philippians 4:


4 Always be full of joy in the Lord. I say it again—rejoice! 5 Let everyone see that you are considerate in all you do. Remember, the Lord is coming soon.

6 Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. 7 Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus. 8 And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. 9 Keep putting into practice all you learned and received from me—everything you heard from me and saw me doing. Then the God of peace will be with you.

Would you be able to share which bible translation you are sharing with your scriptures?

Thanks so much.
 
Would it be completely satanic for me to wonder if God has created another race of people and world and bible at another point before he created Earth for this race of people?

Curious to know your thoughts...

I just wonder about things like that because I am fascinated with life outside of earth and the spirit realm. Its a healthy interest, I dont mess with stuff God speaks against.

Absolutely not!

I believe that we just don't have access to other worlds because humanity fell into sin. When we get to heaven, there will be so much more we will experience!

Here are some verses that indicate other life...

Job 2:1 - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Rev 12:12 - Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
 
But arent we supposed to be familiar with the spiritual as to be prepared for spiritual warfare?

I always believed you can fight what you can not see but you can not fight what you do not know...
 
But arent we supposed to be familiar with the spiritual as to be prepared for spiritual warfare?

I always believed you can fight what you can not see but you can not fight what you do not know...

Depends on where you are learning about this. There are books... some biblical and some not. I really believe that God gives us revelation concerning the 'unseen' part of spiritual warfare. And some have the gift of sight and can just see. When dealing with things that you are ignorant about it is best to search God's word and hear His voice before seeking outside material.

We all have the most powerful weapon available to us and that's Jesus. Speak His name and the war is already won.
 
Would you be able to share which bible translation you are sharing with your scriptures?

Thanks so much.
Oh I go to biblegateway. the new living transalation but that was because that was the one that was up at the time. but I mostly stay with the NKJV
 
subscribing....Question: Because of this holding place that everyone is speaking about.....is this where the catholics (no offense to catholics) believe the whole purgatory theory?
 
Sorry to but in this thread. I'm not christian and don't visit this forum usually. **deleted** Anyway, this "Recording of hell" that Art Bell played on his program has been completely debunked as a hoax a long time ago and I'm surprised the urban legend of it is still going around. In fact, someone found the audio that the person mixed to create the recording. Just an fyi. *Backs out of thread slowly*
 
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subscribing....Question: Because of this holding place that everyone is speaking about.....is this where the catholics (no offense to catholics) believe the whole purgatory theory?

I know this is going to be a little controversial but:

I see so much I need to study on before I can answer, but this one I know the answer to right off because I did the catholic among many others for some time. Purgatory is a Catholic theory which you know. This belief says that if you have sinned really bad your spirit can enter into purgatory in order to be sufficently cleansed and then enter into heaven. Knowing Catholics probably for a fee (just kidding, kinda :grin: ).

The problem with this is all sins can be forgiven except one:

Matthew 12:31-32
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Everything else is fair game for redemption so we don't need purgatory?

1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness".


I have yet to find scriptures supporting a persong getting a second chance after you die to get cleaned. That must be done prior to death.

Yes some sins have worse consequences than others:

http://kevinmaples.blogspot.com/2007/09/is-all-sin-same-sermon-obadiah-115-18.html


and yes, you will have to pay for every sin you commit:

Colossians 3:25
But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.


The opportunity to be restored comes before death.

With that being said I need to get to work. See ya :yep:.
 
Sorry to but in this thread. I'm not christian and don't visit this forum usually. **deleted** Anyway, this "Recording of hell" that Art Bell played on his program has been completely debunked as a hoax a long time ago and I'm surprised the urban legend of it is still going around. In fact, someone found the audio that the person mixed to create the recording. Just an fyi. *Backs out of thread slowly*
Thanks Bosinse, :grouphug: and :welcome:

Anyone can pretty much see or guess that it's not real.

As for urban legend, once something hits the Internet, it never dies. :nono:
 
I know this thread is getting long, but I found something that I'd thought I would share for ALL who are reading this thread:

********************

Life after death--really!

Today, as perhaps never before, because of our materialistic society and humanistic philosophies, the concept of a continued existence after death is being doubted. Even among religious people, this trend is growing. More than one religious group teaches that, at least under certain circumstances, the grave is the end. More and more people are coming to consider the belief in an "afterlife" as just so much "pie-in-the-sky" nonsense.

But what does God say about the matter? Surely, if the grave is the end of man, God could express that clearly to us in His Word, the Bible. And just as surely, if there in fact is something more after death, that too could be unmistakably taught in the Scriptures.

The Old Testament character, Job, asked the very question we're considering: He asked, "If a man die, shall he live again?" (Job 14:14). That question the Bible answers very confidently indeed! Jesus said, while on this Earth, "He that believeth on Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" (John 11:25). This was spoken at the tomb of His close friend Lazarus, as words of comfort to Lazarus' sister Martha. Concerning that statement and others like it, the apostle John said, "This is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life" (I John 2:25). And Martha expressed her own confidence in life after death with these words concerning her brother: "I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day" (John 11:24).

But by far the most graphic picture of existence beyond the grave, for both the good and the bad, is presented in the account of the evil rich man and another Lazarus, a righteous beggar. This account is commonly called a "parable" and dismissed as such, but wrongly so: There is much evidence that this is an account of an actual happening to two very real people that lived and died upon this Earth. Even so, a story in the Scriptures that is very obviously a parable, still doesn’t teach anything untrue. Although only hypothetical situations, each parable depicts an event that could easily have happened and contains only the truth. So the account of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16, be it parable or actual happening, nevertheless must be reckoned with by all honest students of the Bible.

The account begins in Luke 16:19 and records the condition of these two men in this life: the one evil; the other a good, righteous man. Verses 22-23 then inform us that "the beggar (Lazarus) died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in Hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." Both of these men were obviously very much alive following their physical deaths, and reaping the results of their actions while living on Earth. Meanwhile, life on Earth was continuing on, as shown by the rich man’s request that his five brothers still on Earth be warned in order that they might avoid that place of torment after death (vv. 27-28).

It is a dangerous thing to miss the truth about life after death–for it takes preparation in this life, to ensure receiving that place of comfort in the next. The unpleasant truth is that lack of preparation here (not living by God’s will) results only in that place of torment there. Satan is thrilled by those insisting that the grave is the end, for he knows that such ones can only help him in his work of deceiving and capturing souls for an eternity of Hell.

Do you find the idea of an eternal existence after death an unlikely, fantastic thing? Then Jesus speaks to you when He says to doubters, "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:28-29).

Think on these things!
 
It could be in Heaven...

The concept of Heaven as a reward for faithful living here on Earth is one of the strongest motivations in the Bible for being a Christian. Perhaps it is no small wonder, then, that the forces of Satan leave no stone unturned in their attempts to deny the very existence of such a place. And so some say, "We just create our own Heaven or Hell in this life"; or, as one religious cult teaches, "Only 144,000 will enter Heaven itself", and that number is all filled up already! Everyone else, they say, will have to be satisfied with a "reconstituted Earth". Many others, while not going to this extreme, make similar efforts to convince some that "This life is all there is--you may as well enjoy it, for it’s all the reward you’ll have."

But is the Bible really clear on the subject? Does it truly teach the literal existence of a place called Heaven as an eternal home for the faithful? Let’s look into God’s word and see:

First, the existence of a reward of some kind for God’s faithful after this life is described in the Scriptures too often to deny or ignore: Let’s start with Revelation 14:13 "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord". Jesus explained why that is true when He promised not long before His death on the cross, "In My Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself: that where I am, there ye may be also" (John 14:2-3). He also assured His followers "There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake, who shall not receive manifold more in the present time, and in the World to come life everlasting" (Luke 18:29-30). "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Revelation 2:10). Then we see the apostle Paul affirming his confidence in that promise when he said, speaking of his own imminent death, "I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love His appearing" (II Timothy 4:6-8).

But, where are we to live out that reward? The Bible does not give a geographical location–you can’t find it on a map, because Heaven is a spiritual place, not physical. But we know it is not here on Earth, past, present, or future, "reconstituted" or otherwise: Peter said in that last day "The Heavens shall pass a way with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat; the Earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (II Peter 3:10).

We, if we are faithful Christians, will be where God is after we die–for in describing that place of reward, the Bible says among other things that we shall "see God’s face" (Revelation 22:4). Read chapters 21 and 22 of the book of Revelation for a complete description of that dwelling-place of God, and the dwelling-place of all faithful followers of His after this life.

Blessed indeed are all those that "die in the Lord" (Revelation 14:13). These promises are ours, and all the forces of Hell Satan can muster cannot take them away from us. Let the Bible’s promise of Heaven motivate you to live this life in harmony with the will of Christ revealed by the New Testament, so that you can, at your death, go home to be with God for an eternity of happiness. You have God’s word on it!
 
...or it could be in Hell:

What about that place called "Hell"? Does it really exist, or is it just a story made up by preachers to scare people into church? In this age of "Positive Thinking" and warnings of the consequences of being too negative, the concept of "Hell" is unpopular indeed among virtually everyone.

Yet our Lord devoted much of His teaching time to discussing just such a place. Heaven and Hell are invariably mentioned together. The two ideas, that of reward on the one hand and punishment on the other, are so closely linked that they stand or fall together. If you accept the existence of Heaven, you must also accept that there is a Hell–for in the Bible the same expressions are used to describe both .

Jesus spoke of the last-day general resurrection as a resurrection into life for some, but a resurrection into damnation for others (John 5:28-29). In His picture of the Judgment scene in Matthew 25, He spoke in terms of "the sheep and the goats" (v. 32); those on His right hand and those on His left (v. 33); those who will "inherit the kingdom prepared for them (v. 34) and those who will "depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (v. 41). Plain language for what some consider to be an imaginary place! Again, Jesus spoke of the danger of going into a Hell described as "the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43-48). And in the midst of that beautiful description of Heaven in Revelation 21, the apostle John interrupts himself to remind us that "the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).

Perhaps most graphic is the remarkable account in Luke 16 of two men, one evil and one righteous, who both died about the same time. The same dualism, or contrast, is seen here: The one went to a place of comfort called "Abraham’s bosom" (Luke 16:22); while the other found himself "in Hell" (v. 23) in a condition which was described as "being in torments". This shows us, among other things, that Hell is not "just the grave" as some try to say, for there is consciousness there: The man himself said "I am in torment in this flame" (v. 24) and begged for relief and mercy–a request that was denied him, showing that Hell is also both permanent and eternal.

Why such a horrible description in God’s word? If you said "To scare you into Heaven", you’d not be far wrong! God said to the Israelites of old, long ago, "I have set before you life, and death; blessing, and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live" (Deuteronomy 30:19). God presents a very similar choice to us today: That picture of Hell in the Scriptures is meant as a warning, that we may avoid going there--God "is not willing that any should perish" (II Peter 3:9), but He would "have all men to be saved" (I Timothy 2:4). God never prepared Hell for man; instead, it was prepared "for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41). But God won’t force Himself on anyone! He has given man the power of choice, and if a man chooses to follow Satan to that Hell of torment, God will allow him to do so. And so God has said, in effect, to us today: "I have set before thee Heaven, and Hell: therefore choose Heaven, that ye may live."

Don’t let your fear of Hell lead you to deny that it exists; rather, let it–as God intended–motivate you to seek out the road to Heaven. "Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men" (II Corinthians 5:11).

Think about it!
 
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...or it could be in Hell:

What about that place called "Hell"? Does it really exist, or is it just a story made up by preachers to scare people into church? In this age of "Positive Thinking" and warnings of the consequences of being too negative, the concept of "Hell" is unpopular indeed among virtually everyone.

Yet our Lord devoted much of His teaching time to discussing just such a place. Heaven and Hell are invariably mentioned together. The two ideas, that of reward on the one hand and punishment on the other, are so closely linked that they stand or fall together. If you accept the existence of Heaven, you must also accept that there is a Hell–for in the Bible the same expressions are used to describe both .

Jesus spoke of the last-day general resurrection as a resurrection into life for some, but a resurrection into damnation for others (John 5:28-29). In His picture of the Judgment scene in Matthew 25, He spoke in terms of "the sheep and the goats" (v. 32); those on His right hand and those on His left (v. 33); those who will "inherit the kingdom prepared for them (v. 34) and those who will "depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (v. 41). Plain language for what some consider to be an imaginary place! Again, Jesus spoke of the danger of going into a Hell described as "the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43-48). And in the midst of that beautiful description of Heaven in Revelation 21, the apostle John interrupts himself to remind us that "the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).

Perhaps most graphic is the remarkable account in Luke 16 of two men, one evil and one righteous, who both died about the same time. The same dualism, or contrast, is seen here: The one went to a place of comfort called "Abraham’s bosom" (Luke 16:22); while the other found himself "in Hell" (v. 23) in a condition which was described as "being in torments". This shows us, among other things, that Hell is not "just the grave" as some try to say, for there is consciousness there: The man himself said "I am in torment in this flame" (v. 24) and begged for relief and mercy–a request that was denied him, showing that Hell is also both permanent and eternal.

Why such a horrible description in God’s word? If you said "To scare you into Heaven", you’d not be far wrong! God said to the Israelites of old, long ago, "I have set before you life, and death; blessing, and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live" (Deuteronomy 30:19). God presents a very similar choice to us today: That picture of Hell in the Scriptures is meant as a warning, that we may avoid going there--God "is not willing that any should perish" (II Peter 3:9), but He would "have all men to be saved" (I Timothy 2:4). God never prepared Hell for man; instead, it was prepared "for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41). But God won’t force Himself on anyone! He has given man the power of choice, and if a man chooses to follow Satan to that Hell of torment, God will allow him to do so. And so God has said, in effect, to us today: "I have set before thee Heaven, and Hell: therefore choose Heaven, that ye may live."

Don’t let your fear of Hell lead you to deny that it exists; rather, let it–as God intended–motivate you to seek out the road to Heaven. "Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men" (II Corinthians 5:11).

Think about it!

Interesting analysis, but this is also parable. Sometimes parables aren't to be taken completely literally. But even so, the problem with the analysis in bold is that the Greek translation for hell in the verse is still the grave...


Using a Parable to Make a Point

Ángel Manuel Rodríguez

Does the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) suggest that we are not totally unconscious when we die?

Perhaps the basic question is whether this story is a parable or a historical narrative. If it is historical, then Jesus is describing what really happened to the rich man and Lazarus after they died. If it is a parable, we need to look at its purpose.

1. A Historical Event? A reading of the passage indicates that it is not describing a literal event that took place in the afterlife. If it was historical, a literal reading would be required; yet a literal interpretation reveals some serious problems.

First, there is no explicit reference to the soul or the spirit of Lazarus or the rich man. Those who believe that the story describes conditions during the intermediate state between death and resurrection also teach that the soul or the spirit survives after death, but not the body. But a literal reading of the text clearly indicates that they were in "hell" (Greek, hades) in bodily form. Jesus mentioned the rich man's tongue, Lazarus's finger, and verbal communication. Their eyes enabled them to see each other. That language and imagery indicate that we are not dealing here with disembodied spirits.

Second, the place of rest for the saved is not God's presence but Abraham's bosom, a place of felicity in Jewish literature; obviously not a literal place. The phrase was used among Jews to refer to the high privilege of sitting at the right hand of Abraham.

Third, the parable suggests that the righteous and the wicked coexist close to each other. If the righteous were able to see the pain and suffering of the wicked, that would not lend itself to a universal state of peace and rest.

Fourth, the term hades (hell) is not used anywhere else in the New Testament as a place of eternal torment, but simply as the tomb or realm of the dead. Therefore a literal interpretation of the story would contradict what the Bible teaches elsewhere on that topic.

Fifth, a literal interpretation also contradicts the biblical teaching that rewards are given after the second coming of Christ, and not immediately after a person dies (Matt. 25:31, 32; Rev.22:12).

2. A Parable? It is likely that Jesus was not discussing the condition of the dead during the intermediate state, but simply telling a parable. This parable, like all parables, has one of several purposes. The text itself reveals two main purposes. The first one provides comfort to the oppressed followers of Christ: The time is coming when their fortune will be reversed; the wicked will be humiliated and the righteous will be exalted by God.

The second, and possibly the most important element in the parable, teaches that our decisions in this life become irrevocable after we die. There is no such thing as, a purgatory. We must listen to "Moses and the Prophets" while we are alive. Scripture is enough to enlighten us concerning God's eternal purpose for us.

3. Why Did Jesus Choose This Parable? Jesus told this story as a vehicle to teach His hearers animportant lesson; it is merely an illustration.

But why would He use a story with such bad theology? In a sense, what He did here was similar to what He did with the parable of the unrighteous servant (Luke 16:1-10). There Jesus was not teaching that the dishonest administration of money is right; He was emphasizing the importance of placing our resources at the service of others and of God.

In the parable of the rich man, Jesus was retelling a story well known by His audience. The background of this parable was a folk story going back to Egyptian sources. In the Jewish version a contrast was made between the experience of a poor scholar and a rich publican. In a dream a friend of the poor scholar saw him enjoying heavenly bliss in a paradisiacal garden with streams of water, while the rich man was standing by a stream unable to drink from the water.

Jesus told this fictional story and dramatized it in order to make His discourse more relevant to His audience. His point: We only have this life to choose our eternal destiny.
 
Also, the belief that hell is a place of neverending torment contrasts the Scriptures in many basic ways:

Rev. 21:4-5 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

How can God wipe away all tears etc. if people in heaven can look down upon all the wicked and see their torment?

_________________________________

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The Scriptures say that those who believe in Jesus will have everlasting life. If in fact, the wicked suffer in some neverending place called hell, then that means that they have everlasting life too! And that's not what the Bible says! Only the righteous have everlasting life!

So just these simple verses show us that we may need to dig a little deeper and look at the translation of hell to make sure that we understand what hell really is. The Greek translation of hell is the grave. And the verses support the message in the following verses:

John 5:28 - 29."Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."[/I]

Those of us who die in Christ remain in the grave until Christ comes, and then He will give us our reward - immortality! See these verses...

1 Thess 4:16 -17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

I Cor 15:52 -54 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

_____________________________________

The wicked will remain in the grave (hell) and receive their judgment after the 1000 years.

Rev 20:5 - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev. 20:13-15 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
Also scripture backs up scripture over and over again. In order to just go by this one parable you need many more scriptures. The bible repeats over and over that when you die you know nothing, you feel nothing. Ecclesiates 12:7 Then the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. James 2:26 The body without the spirit is dead Job 27:3 the spirit of God is in my nostrils( your breath) John 5:28, 29 All who are in the graves will hear his voice and come forth Acts 2:29, 34 David ........is both dead and buried in his tomb is with us to this day. For David did not ascend into the heavens. People do not go either to heaven or to "hell" (which in some words means the grave or a firey pit or judgement, at death. They go to their graves to await the resurrection day.

How much does one know or comprehend after death?
Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10
5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.

10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.
 
Don't forget, GOD is Eternal and HE is living in ETERNITY.

But for us :

Ecclesiaste 9 : 10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psalms 6 : 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

1Thes. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Rev 20:5 - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev. 20:13-15 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

No need of a resurrection if death is not dead.
No need of a judgment if death is already fire.

 
But I thought whatever is spiritual is eternal? Meaning spirit beings live on forever and forever in consciousness?

Jesus will reward the righteous eternal life when He comes back for us, at the Second Coming.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Here's a good question to ask... If people had inner "spirits" that live on forever and ever, then what would be the need for Jesus' promise of everlasting life to those who believe? The Bible states that the dead know nothing (Eccl 9:5), so there cannot be these spirit beings that last forever in consciousness. If in fact, the wicked suffer in some neverending place called hell, then they have everlasting life (though not a good one). We know that cannot be true. The Scriptures state that everlasting life is a gift from God, bestowed upon those of us who seek Him when He comes for us.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Note that the Bible does not say that the wages of sin is life in hellfire forever, it says that the wages of sin is death. The result for those who reject God is death eternally. They will perish. Just as important, the verse states that the gift of God is eternal life. That is the reward for the righteous which the Bible states will be given to us when Jesus returns.

Truthfully, the idea of spirit/soul that live on forever and forever in consciousness has roots in Platonian thought. Plato, Athenagoras, and Tertullian were influential in the rise of the theory. Tertullian largely pushed the theory within Christianity. But even before Greek thought, the ideas can be found such as within Egyptian beliefs, for example.

A little about Tertillian...

http://www.tertullian.org/tertullianistae/de_haeresibus.htm
 
Don't forget, GOD is Eternal and HE is living in ETERNITY.

But for us :

Ecclesiaste 9 : 10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psalms 6 : 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

1Thes. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Rev 20:5 - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev. 20:13-15 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

No need of a resurrection if death is not dead.
No need of a judgment if death is already fire.

There it is. I gotta read my Stronges to make sure this is the right one. Be back later.
 
So, then...according to you, Jesus' words in the bible concerning the rich man and Lazarus should NOT be taken literally because it was a parable? Now, that's an interesting analysis.

Jesus spoke the truth...he didn't have to make up a story. If He did, then most of everything else He said may have been made up too. He told us the account for a reason...not for it to be JUST A PARABLE.

I don't know about everyone else, but I believe what the bible says....the whole bible, not just bits and pieces. It was important for Jesus to tell the story and many others, and so its just as important enough for me to believe it because HE SAID IT!

I don't need to throw a whole bunch of scriptures around to get my point across....but, what I know to be true is this: Jesus' words are the truth and everything else is a lie!

What is important for ME is to help people come to salvation through Jesus Christ...with His Word being the final authority...and I work very hard to do my part to make that happen...each and everyday. It's a pleasure and an honor to see people give their lives to Christ by asking Jesus to come into their heart!

A changed life, a life saved from spiritual death....that's what it's all about!

Be blessed, everyone.

Interesting analysis, but this is also parable. Sometimes parables aren't to be taken completely literally. But even so, the problem with the analysis in bold is that the Greek translation for hell in the verse is still the grave...


Using a Parable to Make a Point
Ángel Manuel Rodríguez

Does the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) suggest that we are not totally unconscious when we die?

Perhaps the basic question is whether this story is a parable or a historical narrative. If it is historical, then Jesus is describing what really happened to the rich man and Lazarus after they died. If it is a parable, we need to look at its purpose.

1. A Historical Event? A reading of the passage indicates that it is not describing a literal event that took place in the afterlife. If it was historical, a literal reading would be required; yet a literal interpretation reveals some serious problems.

First, there is no explicit reference to the soul or the spirit of Lazarus or the rich man. Those who believe that the story describes conditions during the intermediate state between death and resurrection also teach that the soul or the spirit survives after death, but not the body. But a literal reading of the text clearly indicates that they were in "hell" (Greek, hades) in bodily form. Jesus mentioned the rich man's tongue, Lazarus's finger, and verbal communication. Their eyes enabled them to see each other. That language and imagery indicate that we are not dealing here with disembodied spirits.

Second, the place of rest for the saved is not God's presence but Abraham's bosom, a place of felicity in Jewish literature; obviously not a literal place. The phrase was used among Jews to refer to the high privilege of sitting at the right hand of Abraham.

Third, the parable suggests that the righteous and the wicked coexist close to each other. If the righteous were able to see the pain and suffering of the wicked, that would not lend itself to a universal state of peace and rest.

Fourth, the term hades (hell) is not used anywhere else in the New Testament as a place of eternal torment, but simply as the tomb or realm of the dead. Therefore a literal interpretation of the story would contradict what the Bible teaches elsewhere on that topic.

Fifth, a literal interpretation also contradicts the biblical teaching that rewards are given after the second coming of Christ, and not immediately after a person dies (Matt. 25:31, 32; Rev.22:12).

2. A Parable? It is likely that Jesus was not discussing the condition of the dead during the intermediate state, but simply telling a parable. This parable, like all parables, has one of several purposes. The text itself reveals two main purposes. The first one provides comfort to the oppressed followers of Christ: The time is coming when their fortune will be reversed; the wicked will be humiliated and the righteous will be exalted by God.

The second, and possibly the most important element in the parable, teaches that our decisions in this life become irrevocable after we die. There is no such thing as, a purgatory. We must listen to "Moses and the Prophets" while we are alive. Scripture is enough to enlighten us concerning God's eternal purpose for us.

3. Why Did Jesus Choose This Parable? Jesus told this story as a vehicle to teach His hearers animportant lesson; it is merely an illustration.

But why would He use a story with such bad theology? In a sense, what He did here was similar to what He did with the parable of the unrighteous servant (Luke 16:1-10). There Jesus was not teaching that the dishonest administration of money is right; He was emphasizing the importance of placing our resources at the service of others and of God.

In the parable of the rich man, Jesus was retelling a story well known by His audience. The background of this parable was a folk story going back to Egyptian sources. In the Jewish version a contrast was made between the experience of a poor scholar and a rich publican. In a dream a friend of the poor scholar saw him enjoying heavenly bliss in a paradisiacal garden with streams of water, while the rich man was standing by a stream unable to drink from the water.

Jesus told this fictional story and dramatized it in order to make His discourse more relevant to His audience. His point: We only have this life to choose our eternal destiny.
 
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