Same Sex Wedding

guess all those people dying from AIDS are just not Christian enough or else they would have been healed. :rolleyes:
Unless I said "Only a Christian will receive healing" that's YOUR own sarcastic assumption.

Every sin we do we will be forgiven if we truly repent. However, that doesn't mean that we don't pay the PRICE for that sin. Many Christians die from cancer, many go through. Sometimes God takes us out of here for a reason. Job was upright in God's eyes. Yet he went through as a testimony. It's the perfect example of "Good things happening to bad people." But he got delieved. Those who were martyred, many of Christs deciples, in HORRIBLE WAYS, HORRIBLE deaths...who walked with Christ...guess they were just not Christian enough, right? :rolleyes:
~*Janelle~*
 
How do I know what? The hour Jesus will come, since you bolded that?
Should I find the scripture for you? Or would you like clarification about the rapture. :yep:
~*Janelle~*
Um, look again. I didn't bold anything. And trust, there is no need for you to quote scripture on me. The question was pretty clear and direct. I need no clarification because I am very clear on the rapture and the scripture. Quoting it means nothing if you are misinterpreting it or just throwing it out willy nilly. I asked how do YOU KNOW these are the last days.
 
WOW at this thread! WOW! :nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono:

We have people in here telling other people they are not real Christians. And people saying that Christians with AIDS can be healed....which basically says all those that have died of AIDS were not devout Christians. WOW! WOW!

Take a moment to really reflect on that. :nono::nono::nono: As someone in the medical field I am saddened that people actually believe that. It is a shame because thoughts like these will not help in the world's understanding of this virus or dieases. That kind of judgement and thinking only perpetuates the ignorance.....YES IGNORANCE!

Some of the comments in this thread are too judgemental :nono:
 
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I wasn't going to take it here (to the bible), but I saw this on another board, and I thought it would be appropriate to post here. This has nothing to do with your personal beliefs. I did think it was food for thought in light of this thread. And I'm not standing here to say one is right and the other is wrong or vice versa. My next post will also use some biblical references. Let's hope this thread stays open!:lachen:

Did you know there are more scriptures condemning fornication and adultery, than any other sin?

Fornication and adultery
Genesis 20:3, 7, 17; 26:11
Genesis 20:9 "a great sin"
Genesis 34:7 "which thing ought not to be done"
Genesis 38:15, 24
Exodus 20:14
Leviticus 18:20
Leviticus 20:10-12
Leviticus 21:9
Deuteronomy 5:18
Deuteronomy 23:17-18
Deuteronomy 22:13-21, cp.
2 Samuel 12
2 Samuel 13:12
Proverbs 2:16-19; 7:5-27
Jeremiah 13:27
Ezekiel 16:3-22
Matthew 5;27; 19:18
Matthew 14:34
Mark 10:19
Mark 6:17-18
Luke 18:20
John 8:4-5
Romans 13:9
1 Corinthians 5:1-2, 9-12
1 Corinthians 6:18
1 Corinthians 6:15; 10:8
1 Corinthians 7:2
2 Corinthians 12:21
Hebrews 13:4
James 2:11
Romans 1:29, 32
Jeremiah 3:1, 6, 8, 9, 14, etc.
Ezekiel 6:9; 16:36, etc.
Hosea 1:2;4:11-12; 3:1
Acts 15:29
Proverbs 6:27-29, 32
Ezekiel 16:38, 40-41
Malachi 3:5
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 18
Galatians 5:19, 21
Ephesians 5:5-6
Revelation 22:15
Jude 7
Revelation 21:8


Homosexuality
Genesis 19:5-11
Judges 19:22
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
2 Timothy 3:1-5
Leviticus 20:13
Romans 1:27, 32
1 Timothy 1:10
Leviticus 18:22, 24
Romans 1:24, 26-32
Ephesians 4:17-19
1 Corinthians 6:11, 9-10
 
I believe the poster that said that God can heal AIDS was taken totally out of context. I went back to re-read what was originally said.
She did not say anywhere in her post that only Christians can be healed from AIDS. She just said that God can heal.

I can understand that point of view. However, I would hope that the poster would also believe that God can heal Christians as well as NON-Christians (because I do believe he can and does do this)

I apologize for running with the misinterpretation of that post. I guess it is easy to jump to conclusions...but it is totally not what she was trying to say.
 
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Thanks for informing me of that.

I don't read Greek or Hebrew so I need an English interpretation. I read the KJV but it's just one translation of many. It's a translation not interpretation.

You can still refer to the original languages with academic and spiritual guidance and I have found it beneficial to seek a holistic understanding anyway.

I use KJV for many reasons but it is evident that there are words that were non existent back then within the text because they are modern words (i.e. abomination, detestable, homosexuality....). There's a long history relating to the Latin language of why those words were preferred a long time ago when attempting to translate the Bible. :ohwell: With that said, the Bible does not reference same sex relationships as we know it today but people still interpret the Bible that way. It's not only a translation issue, but an interpretation issue when you get down to the examining the verb and direct object within the Hebrew and Greek. I would give you an example, but I'd probably be wasting my time.

At any rate, I don't believe in arguing with another Christian about how "real" or fake I am in my belief just because I took time out four years ago to study the issue for myself and came up with something different than what they believe. That's why i only wanted to clarify where you stood, not argue. As a Christian, I do expect to be mocked by nonbelievers, but I do not expect to be mocked nor my relationship with G*d questioned by own fellow believers who claim they love Christ.
 
You can still refer to the original languages with academic and spiritual guidance and I have found it beneficial to seek a holistic understanding anyway.

I use KJV for many reasons but it is evident that there are words that were non existent back then within the text because they are modern words (i.e. abomination, detestable, homosexuality....). There's a long history relating to the Latin language of why those words were preferred a long time ago when attempting to translate the Bible. :ohwell: With that said, the Bible does not reference same sex relationships as we know it today but people still interpret the Bible that way. It's not only a translation issue, but an interpretation issue when you get down to the examining the verb and direct object within the Hebrew and Greek. I would give you an example, but I'd probably be wasting my time.

At any rate, I don't believe in arguing with another Christian about how "real" or fake I am in my belief just because I took time out four years ago to study the issue for myself and came up with something different than what they believe. That's why i only wanted to clarify where you stood, not argue. As a Christian, I do expect to be mocked by nonbelievers, but I do not expect to be mocked nor my relationship with G*d questioned by own fellow believers who claim they love Christ.

That's my point also (mind you I didn't read this whole thread so I don't know where you stand on the issue). Whether you stand on one side of it or the other, I don't think anyone has a right to play "You're not really Christian if ..."
 
You can still refer to the original languages with academic and spiritual guidance and I have found it beneficial to seek a holistic understanding anyway.

I use KJV for many reasons but it is evident that there are words that were non existent back then within the text because they are modern words (i.e. abomination, detestable, homosexuality....). There's a long history relating to the Latin language of why those words were preferred a long time ago when attempting to translate the Bible. :ohwell: With that said, the Bible does not reference same sex relationships as we know it today but people still interpret the Bible that way. It's not only a translation issue, but an interpretation issue when you get down to the examining the verb and direct object within the Hebrew and Greek. I would give you an example, but I'd probably be wasting my time.

At any rate, I don't believe in arguing with another Christian about how "real" or fake I am in my belief just because I took time out four years ago to study the issue for myself and came up with something different than what they believe. That's why i only wanted to clarify where you stood, not argue. As a Christian, I do expect to be mocked by nonbelievers, but I do not expect to be mocked nor my relationship with G*d questioned by own fellow believers who claim they love Christ.

Great post, especially the bolded. :yep::yep::yep::yep::yep:

I noticed something ironic awhile ago about that whole "study the Bible for yourself" thing, but that's another topic.
 
My question is for those that constantly refer to the "sin of homosexuality". Now, as a Christian, I don't doubt the bible, but I must admit, I've always found it interesting that so many Christians remember that scripture in Leviticus and yet don't seem to remember these (nor follow them:nono:). I just wanted to put this out. Not to judge others opinions, etc.

Leviticus
19:15 " 'Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

16 " 'Do not go about spreading slander among your people.
" 'Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am the LORD.
17 " 'Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.
18 " 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. 19 " 'Keep my decrees.
" 'Do not mate different kinds of animals.
" 'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
" 'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

11:1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud. Do we follow this today?
11:9 'Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to detest. 11 And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.
41 " 'Every creature that moves about on the ground is detestable; it is not to be eaten. 42 You are not to eat any creature that moves about on the ground, whether it moves on its belly or walks on all fours or on many feet; it is detestable.

12:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. 4 Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. 5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.

13:9 "When anyone has an infectious skin disease, he must be brought to the priest. 10 The priest is to examine him, and if there is a white swelling in the skin that has turned the hair white and if there is raw flesh in the swelling, 11 it is a chronic skin disease and the priest shall pronounce him unclean. He is not to put him in isolation, because he is already unclean.

And of course, probably the one that helped create this thread

18:22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
 
You can still refer to the original languages with academic and spiritual guidance and I have found it beneficial to seek a holistic understanding anyway.

I use KJV for many reasons but it is evident that there are words that were non existent back then within the text because they are modern words (i.e. abomination, detestable, homosexuality....). There's a long history relating to the Latin language of why those words were preferred a long time ago when attempting to translate the Bible. :ohwell: With that said, the Bible does not reference same sex relationships as we know it today but people still interpret the Bible that way. It's not only a translation issue, but an interpretation issue when you get down to the examining the verb and direct object within the Hebrew and Greek. I would give you an example, but I'd probably be wasting my time.

At any rate, I don't believe in arguing with another Christian about how "real" or fake I am in my belief just because I took time out four years ago to study the issue for myself and came up with something different than what they believe. That's why i only wanted to clarify where you stood, not argue. As a Christian, I do expect to be mocked by nonbelievers, but I do not expect to be mocked nor my relationship with G*d questioned by own fellow believers who claim they love Christ.


I own several parallel bibles and text with the Hebrew and Greek translations side by side with different English translations. I believe not sure that those are to of the hardest languages to translate into English becuase the English is not as rich a language as they are.

It's so simple for us as Chrisitians to pray and ask God what His will is but for some reason when I say that Christians, not you specifically want to tell me what they've studied outside of the bible and won't pray about it and have Him settle it in our own hearts.

I've studied this also but I also pray to ask God to teach me what He wants me to know about what I've read. I have been wrong a lot and I've been correct alot. But only He is infallible. I can not make that claim.

I don't believe in debating either and have had to catch myself several times but we are to correct each other not the world. What consenting adults do is none of our business. I just wish that Christians prayed more about opposing views.
 
Great post, especially the bolded. :yep::yep::yep::yep::yep:

I noticed something ironic awhile ago about that whole "study the Bible for yourself" thing, but that's another topic.

I'm still reading through the thread. What do you mean (maybe you should start this in the Christian forum)
 
I don't understand this logic?

I'm a devout Catholic. The word says Homosexuality is a sin. And also that marriage is sacred.
We are to not intentionally sin.
I'm going to intentionally sin by going AGAINST God's word for a FRIEND.

Unless you can tell me you don't believe homosexuality is a sin, you doing that is pretty much saying I'm chosing man over the God I claim to devoutly serve.
WE ARE ALL SINNERS, YES. BUT WHY intentionally participate in sin? Stop throwing around that we are all sinners thing as if it's like "Well, we gone sin anyway, lemme do whatever" We are not perfect, but we are to PRESS to perfection in Christ Jesus. If you're going to sit there and intentionally sin and yet claim Christ, you apparently DON'T need Jesus because what? He died in vain to save you from the very SIN you're going to sit there and...wait for it...not spur of the moment, God please forgive me...But a calculated, planned and devised, I'm gonna wear this dress and these pumps and sit in row 3a at this wedding that you know FULL WELL God is NO part of blessing.

But you're a Christian, right? Lord, Lord...And I would say the SAME THING if this thread was "Would you go get condoms for someone who you knew was about to go have sex unmarried?'
~*Janelle~*

Oops, disregard. My post was misdirected because I thought song of serenity was saying she was catholic, and that's why I took her down that path
 
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That's my point also (mind you I didn't read this whole thread so I don't know where you stand on the issue). Whether you stand on one side of it or the other, I don't think anyone has a right to play "You're not really Christian if ..."

I have no problem with someone else feeling they cannot and will not go to a gay wedding due to how they feel about scripture. I do have a problem with someone implying another person's relationship with G*d is a "crap," that they need to study the Word, and read the Bible solely based on the fact that they do not agree with them.

My question is for those that constantly refer to the "sin of homosexuality". Now, as a Christian, I don't doubt the bible, but I must admit, I've always found it interesting that so many Christians remember that scripture in Leviticus and yet don't seem to remember these (nor follow them:nono:). I just wanted to put this out. Not to judge others opinions, etc.

Well, what Christians needs to consider about Leviticus is the intention of the message, who it was written by and written for. I always question what other parts of Leviticus people do NOT follow and what parts of Leviticus they do given Moses was talking to the Jews and what was considered unclean for them. I also, consider if people are taking the Bible into its history and context or just want to read based on the 'tradition' of what different denominations of churches say?

You've provided several scriptures, which is great since they also relate to the same set-up as Romans - a scripture reference before in this thread. These scriptures in Leviticus apply to pagan ritual and sacrifices and several words within the passages allude to what was considered idolatry and unclean practices rather than homosexual as we know it today.

Take 20:13 as an example:
καὶ ὃς ἂν κοιμηθῇ μετὰ ἄρσενος κοίτην γυναικός βδ�*λυγμα ἐποίησαν ἀμφότεροι θανατούσθωσαν ἔνοχοί εἰσιν

The literal translation taking the the verb and direct object into consideration means do not sleep the sleeps of a woman with a man, do not lay the layings of a woman with a man. I was also told and have researched that many Jewish moralists, Greek and Hebrew linguists, and Biblical scholars for over a millennium have debated what exactly constitutes "sleeping the sleeps of a woman" and who is technically a "man" in the situation. Because of these debates, it is not clear that this is a direct reference to homosexual activity in the original text. This is where interpretation comes in and Hebrew theology, but I don't have time to get into that now.

Anyway, the English translation of the word abomination in Hebrew is tow'ebah (transliterated and probably I misspelled). Uncleanliness is one of the definitions of tow’ebah when excluding words that weren't in existence then. The Greek language makes a distinction between morality and ritual impurity. Those words are anomia and bdelugma,(spelling?) respectively. Anyone can look up these words with other scriptures as cross references.:yep:

In Lev. 18:12, the word bdelugma is used to illustrate the issue of ritual impurity rather than morality. Tow'ebah (again, transliterated) is used through out the Old Testament to refer to idolatry or something not expected as a life of a Jew- "ethnicity" wise- that would be unclean or impure for them.

For example, 2 Kings 16:3 reads:
וילך בדרך מלכי ישראל וגם את־ב�*ו העביר באש כתעבות הגוים אשר הוריש יהוה אתם ב�*י ישראל מפ�*י

Full KJV 2 Kings 16:3: But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.

And my script is messing up on LHCF, but I can direct anyone who wants to view the passage above w/o errors. Where tow'ebah is combined with hagoyim (both are transliterated again) to translate as uncleanness/impurity of the gentiles. The word idol is mistranslated in KJV as well, but I won’t go into that too right now because the point is that the meaning of these mistranslations were for the laws that preserves who the Jews were and how they were in disassociation (or should be) with pagan ritual and idolatry. Many Biblical scholars believe that this is reinstated in the 10 commandments.

So with that said, we can ask ourselves what specific act does tow'ebah refer to? Can it possibly denounce all 'homosexuals'?

As you see, I RARELY get into the Bible this deep on here. I mean only to encourage others to seek answers for themselves or at least spark curiosity about the Bible. There's a bigger picture G*d's word provides and no one should be shunned for trying to study it and coming up with something that goes against popular denominational belief.

Ok. I think I'm done now. :look:

eta: sorry, I forgot to disclaim about Moses. It's IF you believe that Moses wrote Leviticus and you believe Paul in his account of it.
 
Hey as long as that's what God told you when you sought answers from Him concerning this issue and he said you didn't need to go by His Word only and except other texts as inerrant too, no sweat.

All I asked is for Christians to pray, I mean that's not debated too is it, prayer? and see what God says to you.
 
The point to sum this all up, is everyone picks and chooses. All sins are equal to God, but will never be equal in man's eyes. Everyone has a scale of what they will accept and what they won't. What is better and what is worse. What is tolerant and what is abominable.
 
The point to sum this all up, is everyone picks and chooses. All sins are equal to God, but will never be equal in man's eyes. Everyone has a scale of what they will accept and what they won't. What is better and what is worse. What is tolerant and what is abominable.

We cannot make assumptions about everyone's personal life. Many people pick and choose, but many people live right. However, regardless of what anyone really wants to accept or not, God gives us His Word to tell us what He does and doesn't accept. What we want to believe simply doesn't hold unless in accordance with the Word. If there is something we do not understand, then if we open our hearts and minds to His voice, then He will reveal to us His truths. Whether or not we accept it is our choice...
 
I would go in support of my friend.
I dont understand the gay thing and I admit im still very ignorant to it(by way of just not getting it). But Im the type of person that if your are in my circle of friendship Im there with you always with love in sadness and joy. Im not a christain but I do believe in God and I thought that was his basic purpose- for all of his people to have love for each other in non judgement.:look:
 
jenna_jameson_hollywood_tuna_small.jpg
You covered the bumping bunnies but not the dudes? Whats up with dat?:lachen:
 
I own several parallel bibles and text with the Hebrew and Greek translations side by side with different English translations. I believe not sure that those are to of the hardest languages to translate into English becuase the English is not as rich a language as they are.

It's so simple for us as Chrisitians to pray and ask God what His will is but for some reason when I say that Christians, not you specifically want to tell me what they've studied outside of the bible and won't pray about it and have Him settle it in our own hearts.

I've studied this also but I also pray to ask God to teach me what He wants me to know about what I've read. I have been wrong a lot and I've been correct alot. But only He is infallible. I can not make that claim.

I don't believe in debating either and have had to catch myself several times but we are to correct each other not the world. What consenting adults do is none of our business. I just wish that Christians prayed more about opposing views.

But I thought you did know/read/understand Greek or Hebrew... :lol:
 
eh... how close?

i know weddings are beautiful but unless its forsure short, i dont wanna go period--straight or gay :ohwell:
 
Why are folks debating about what two consenting adults with free will do? If you condone it, attend the wedding. If you don't condone it don't go. For Christians who amazingly feel you should attend READ YOUR BIBLES!!!

As far as the bible is concerned there is no such thing of it being silent on any issue nor are there any gray areas.
The law says the sexual act (not the person) is an abomination. Jesus says He didn't come to change one iota of the law. Meaning it's still an abomination. If the OT is too vague/gray for you then in Romans 1:24-32 it says For even women did change the NATURAL use into that which is AGAINST NATURE and likewise also men leaving the Natural use of the woman, men with men working that which is unseemly. So yes the NT says homosexual relationships are still ungodly. BUT it's no more ungodly than any other sexual sin and folks need to stop acting like it is. Homosexuality is no worse nor better than heterosexuals having sex with folks they're not married to whether it's pre-marital sex or adultery. I don't see how folks come up with that conclusion. It's all equally bad and the same wages are earned, death.

For those non Christians who want to state that Jesus never rejected anyone you need not quote what you do not practice, that goes for the Christians too. When Jesus showed compassion to sinners He forgave them and told them to SIN NO MORE. So yes, Jesus accepts you in the state you come to Him in but He also tells us to stop sinning or He will say "I never knew you. Depart from me you worker of iniquity(sinner). Luke 7:21-23. That is a statement of rejection, correct? So Jesus will reject us. He said this Himself, it's not something ministers made up.

Christians and other opposers to homosexuality you need to let this go. Sinners sin, that's why they're called sinners, that's what they're supposed to do. Let them do their job and let us do ours. Stop getting drawn into these foolish debates. Let's remember that we weren't born saved and believed some of this same stuff before we converted.

Christians that are so PC that you've turned the truth of God INTO A LIE, please stop telling folks you're Christians. That's where most of this confusion comes from in the first place. It amazes me how some of you claim to be Christians in one post and then in another you say, "Well I do believe in some of the Christian teachings but I'm not open-minded". Stop being lukewarm. All riding the fence accomplishes is getting you scorn from both sides. Man up, pick a side and stick with it. You either follow Jesus or you don't.

Unbelievers, you need to stop worrying about what opposers to homosexuality feel. Just because you feel it's okay doesn't mean that everyone should feel it's okay too. Why do y'all care what grosses folks out? The majority of y'all aren't even gay in the first place and all up in arms. And before you start posting about worrying about how others are treated, that's a lie because alot of you are some of the nastiest, meanest, most crap instigating chicks on this forum. You just want to be heard and be messy.

If folks learned how to mind their own business half these threads wouldn't be posted in the first place.


Thank you. I in no way believe in what you believe in spiritually or morally, but I agree 100% with the bolded. I have no problem with discussion, but some of you (on both sides) are trying to CONVINCE, why?
 
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