Salon stylists speak "we hate wash and gos!"

[melissa-bee]

When you say so and so has been natural for x amount of years, do you mean they have been natural rocking a fade?

 

[PatTodd]

So a wash and go is trying to be something that you're not. What is a flat iron and curl? What's a roller set? What's a relaxer? Twists don't grow out of your head naturally. Stop it.

Because thanks wasn't enough!!!

When I was relaxed, I could never wait to wash and redo my hair myself after the salon because that I knew that super straight, flat look wasn't for me. To me, THAT look was trying to be something I am not . Meaning, straightened yes, not straight haired, period.

 

[nurseN98]

This mob mentality here is baffling! I've never seen it used like this, it's so sad. You'd rather attack and be disrespectful instead of evolving and growing. We've read and considered every relevant word to make better videos with Amanda in the future. I get the impression most of you could not care less though. I can't be a part of a group of such closed minds. Thanks for the feedback! Peace.

FreeLove, you are on a website with 165,000 members. You have a chance to market your salon a bit. There are many lurkers too so maybe you could represent your salon in a way that makes ppl want to come to you? IJS...

 

[chejam]

The way the video was presented, made me fill I would never want to try there salon. As if I am a idiot for taking care of my own hair

 

[koolkittychick]

*slides flak jacket on* Well, I saw both videos, and I am frankly surprised at the responses I have seen here. While they could have been a little less condescending, I didn't have a problem with a lot of what they said about wash 'n' goes, and truth be told, I did find them kind of funny. To read some of the responses I have seen here, especially about women of size (as a fat woman, I think I give great advice on lots of things other than "great recipes or restaurants to try," ) or women who chose to wear their hair super short, was just disheartening and not much better than the shade you feel these women were throwing in their video.

What they said about wash 'n' goes is not wrong. My mother has 3c hair that hangs in spiral curls. She wears wash 'n' goes and it works for her. She literally washes, conditions, combs her hair briefly (no product) and walks out the door to let it air dry in about an hour into defined curls. At the end of the day she combs it out with no tangles, puts it up, and repeats the next day.

I have 4a/b hair. If I did a wash 'n' go as described, I get a shrunken Afro. Nothing wrong with that style, but it causes a tangled, matted mess at the end of the day that I don't want to deal with because I lose too much hair in the detangling process. Wash 'n' goes are not for me.

And, that (the shrunken Afro) is not the look that 99% of Black women with other than type 3 hair who attempt wash 'n' goes want. They want a variation of my mother's look--even if it is smaller curls, they want the effect of curls. So they engage in a styling process that should not be called a wash 'n' go (because it is not), spending vast amounts of time, money and product doing what amounts to purposely matting your hair to coax it into some visible curl pattern, and then letting it matt further over the course of 2 days to a week because it takes too much time and effort to rinse and repeat each day.

I can see from a stylist's point of view how that could be viewed as madness, especially if the client comes in like that and expects the stylist to comb through all that in under 2 hours without losing any of the client's hair in the process. Seems to me they are not bringing up the issue of good hair/bad hair; the people on this thread are, because they are mad that the stylists are (truthfully) stating that in order for some women with type 4 hair to get the look they want (defined curls) from a wash 'n' go, they have to resort to practices and products that can be harmful to their hair, and if they do, it's in their best interest to stop, as it is counterproductive to their goal of long, healthy hair.

All that being said, I still do have an issue with stylists and a lot of what they do (and don't do) to our hair, but I won't fault them from telling the truth, even if it is not eloquently, and I certainly wouldn't resort to disparaging them on things that have nothing to do with their styling ability; that's just sinking to their level, no?

Please know that I say all this with the utmost respect, and hope that no one takes offense at what I have to say. I love coming here and visiting virtually with you ladies, and I would be remiss if I didn't speak up when I feel that the caliber of discourse sinks to below what I would expect form the great and wonderful women I enjoy here.

Peace all, and happy hair growing!

 

[DaiseeDay]

This mob mentality here is baffling! I've never seen it used like this, it's so sad. You'd rather attack and be disrespectful instead of evolving and growing. We've read and considered every relevant word to make better videos with Amanda in the future. I get the impression most of you could not care less though. I can't be a part of a group of such closed minds. Thanks for the feedback! Peace.

Closed minds? Pot meet kettle: you said you hate wash and goes. You didn't say some wash and goes, you cosigned "WE.HATE.WASH&GOS".

Also the negative feedback is not just us, even people on Yelp have written negative reviews based on customer service (and I saw a snarky reply by your salon there too by the way). I'm sorry, but that should tell you that your customer service needs work. You seem to think you've got it all under control, well OK then, everybody else is wrong. Do you. I wish you the best as a business woman, but I'm telling you this is not the way to go about things.

You think this is a mob mentality? This thread is only 5 pages long, you're kind of digging a hole, and LHCF can be a mess - that's all I'll say about that. There are more members here than just the ones posting - there are thousands upon thousands of black women who care about hair care on this forum; what are the chances that some of them live in SC? I'm just saying that this is not the way to defend your business - there's a large chance you've offended potential customers.

 

[naturalmanenyc]

koolkittychick

Knowledge is power. My wash & go looked very cute last week (4a curls) and it was not a problem to detangle at all since I used Vatika oil as a prepoo for about 2 hours. I did not lose a lot of hair at all, no more than normal.

What they said about wash & gos was the experience of just the clients in their salon and not the majority of naturals so no, I can't agree that it's the "truth" at all. I've seen too many examples to the contrary to call that truth. I don't have to coax my hair to curl at all. It grows out of my head that way.

I would expect a salon that specializes in natural hair to get wash & go results for most hair types not just type 3 and looser textures. I would also expect a natural hair stylist to know how to detangle that wash & go easily with an aloe vera mix or some oils and not have the client lose a ton of hair. However, since the videos clearly mention that these stylist are not interested in such methods then they won't achieve such results for their clients.

A wash & go for most natural is not shampoo and go but instead, shampoo, condition, apply product and go (or sit under the dryer).

The condescending attitude and implied "good hair" versus "bad hair" message is the reason I think so many people are offended by the videos. Although they did not say "good hair" the message is there.

*slides flak jacket on* Well, I saw both videos, and I am frankly surprised at the responses I have seen here. While they could have been a little less condescending, I didn't have a problem with a lot of what they said about wash 'n' goes, and truth be told, I did find them kind of funny. To read some of the responses I have seen here, especially about women of size (as a fat woman, I think I give great advice on lots of things other than "great recipes or restaurants to try," ) or women who chose to wear their hair super short, was just disheartening and not much better than the shade you feel these women were throwing in their video.

What they said about wash 'n' goes is not wrong. My mother has 3c hair that hangs in spiral curls. She wears wash 'n' goes and it works for her. She literally washes, conditions, combs her hair briefly (no product) and walks out the door to let it air dry in about an hour into defined curls. At the end of the day she combs it out with no tangles, puts it up, and repeats the next day.

I have 4a/b hair. If I did a wash 'n' go as described, I get a shrunken Afro. Nothing wrong with that style, but it causes a tangled, matted mess at the end of the day that I don't want to deal with because I lose too much hair in the detangling process. Wash 'n' goes are not for me.

And, that (the shrunken Afro) is not the look that 99% of Black women with other than type 3 hair who attempt wash 'n' goes want. They want a variation of my mother's look--even if it is smaller curls, they want the effect of curls. So they engage in a styling process that should not be called a wash 'n' go (because it is not), spending vast amounts of time, money and product doing what amounts to purposely matting your hair to coax it into some visible curl pattern, and then letting it matt further over the course of 2 days to a week because it takes too much time and effort to rinse and repeat each day.

I can see from a stylist's point of view how that could be viewed as madness, especially if the client comes in like that and expects the stylist to comb through all that in under 2 hours without losing any of the client's hair in the process. Seems to me they are not bringing up the issue of good hair/bad hair; the people on this thread are, because they are mad that the stylists are (truthfully) stating that in order for some women with type 4 hair to get the look they want (defined curls) from a wash 'n' go, they have to resort to practices and products that can be harmful to their hair, and if they do, it's in their best interest to stop, as it is counterproductive to their goal of long, healthy hair.

All that being said, I still do have an issue with stylists and a lot of what they do (and don't do) to our hair, but I won't fault them from telling the truth, even if it is not eloquently, and I certainly wouldn't resort to disparaging them on things that have nothing to do with their styling ability; that's just sinking to their level, no?

Please know that I say all this with the utmost respect, and hope that no one takes offense at what I have to say. I love coming here and visiting virtually with you ladies, and I would be remiss if I didn't speak up when I feel that the caliber of discourse sinks to below what I would expect form the great and wonderful women I enjoy here.

Peace all, and happy hair growing!

 

[koolkittychick]

@koolkittychick

Knowledge is power. My wash & go looked very cute last week (4a curls) and it was not a problem to detangle at all since I used Vatika oil as a prepoo for about 2 hours. I did not lose a lot of hair at all, no more than normal.

What they said about wash & gos was the experience of just the clients in their salon and not the majority of naturals so no, I can't agree that it's the "truth" at all. I've seen too many examples to the contrary to call that truth. I don't have to coax my hair to curl at all. It grows out of my head that way.

I would expect a salon that specializes in natural hair to get wash & go results for most hair types not just type 3 and looser textures. I would also expect a natural hair stylist to know how to detangle that wash & go easily with an aloe vera mix or some oils and not have the client lose a ton of hair. However, since the videos clearly mention that these stylist are not interested in such methods then they won't achieve such results for their clients.

A wash & go for most natural is not shampoo and go but instead, shampoo, condition, apply product and go (or sit under the dryer).

The condescending attitude and implied "good hair" versus "bad hair" message is the reason I think so many people are offended by the videos. Although they did not say "good hair" the message is there.

Yes, your style was very cute (it looks like the curls i can create with a similar kind of styling), and I saw the video you did on how you achieved it. Based on the actual process, it is not a wash 'n' go. It is a "wash, condition, apply a ton of product, tease the hell out of the hair until curls form, apply more product, wait a looooong time to dry, then go." For me, this leads to dry hair and an itchy, sore scalp (due to product) and tangled mats that are not fixed with oil (my moody hair does not like oil; it prefers a select few water-based moisturizers ) You are lucky in that wash 'n' goes work for you. But for the women it does not work for (in that it damages their hair), it is a losing proposition for them to keep doing it. That is what the stylists were saying, albeit in a somewhat snarky way.

And you still did not negate the statement I made about how women want their "wash 'n' goes" to look. A real wash 'n' go for me is an Afto, and I am guessing that is the same for you as well. What you or I do to get your curls to pop is not a "wash 'n' go"--it is only that for women who have type 3 hair. If people want to slap a "good hair, bad hair" connotation on it, it's because they chose to misname that styling technique for type 4 hair. The term "shingling," coined by one of the curly hair care companies (I forget the name), attempts to resolve this, but it is yet another styling technique to achieve the same look, defined curly hair. Maybe if we were all not so hung up on curls, there wouldn't be so much conflicts or hangups about what people are trying to imply versus what they said, but I don't know.

 

[Ogoma]

Twists take me a long time to do and if I leave them into long or moisturize too much with them in, they mat up. I wonder why I never see people decrying the time it takes to do twists or telling me it is damaging my hair or I am trying to make my hair something it is not as my hair does not grow out of my head in twists.

People should stop acting brand new. There is a reason wash and go's elicit such responses and comments like the women made and it has nothing to do with the potential to damage ones hair if it is done right or the time it takes. I mean if time it takes to do a style or number of products used to accomplish a style is an indicator of trying to make my hair what it is not, my hair stays in a permanent 'what it is not' state. Even my buns require a leave-in, a butter for my ends, and a little gel or oil to smooth frizz.

 

[koolkittychick]

Twists take me a long time to do and if I leave them into long or moisturize too much with them in, they mat up. I wonder why I never see people decrying the time it takes to do twists or telling me it is damaging my hair or I am trying to make my hair something it is not as my hair does not grow out of my head in twists.

People should stop acting brand new. There is a reason wash and go's elicit such responses and comments like the women made and it has nothing to do with the potential to damage ones hair if it is done right or the time it takes. I mean if time it takes to do a style or number of products used to accomplish a style is an indicator of trying to make my hair what it is not, my hair stays in a permanent 'what it is not' state. Even my buns require a leave-in, a butter for my ends, and a little gel or oil to smooth frizz.

Twists in general do not damage hair unless you neglect them as described, so most people will not decry them or the time it takes to do them. By the nature of the style (it is not a style that is trying to look like it grew naturally that way from your head), it is a form of manipulation for hair adornment, as is braiding or putting barrettes in your hair. Every woman on the planet of every race does that, and will continue to do that for as long as we exist with hair.

As for your second paragraph, most women (who have the means to anyway) wear their hair in a permanent 'what it's not' state to look more attractive or feel good about themselves. The problem arises when they engage in practices that actually harm their hair in order to achieve that state, and where black women in particular face the most emotional landmines in respect to our relationship with what grows naturally out of our heads. No one wants any one to look or feel bad about their hair, but if they are willing to actually abuse or even sacrifice that hair to get a certain look, then how can you say they are truly embracing what they have, even if they are natural? Just some food for thought.

 

[PennyK]

I love doing wash n goes! It showcases my big and curly hair and I get compliments on my them all the time when I do them. HOWEVER, if I don't do what is necessary for MY HAIR to maintain it and nurture it, it can lead to breakage.

Not every wash n go is created equal. So if women figure out what their wash n go hair needs, then by all means, work it

As for the video... that's 5 minutes of my life I can't get back

 

[itsjusthair88]

Hmm...well, that was a doozy.

I will say this, for the posters mentioning their weight, can we not? What does that have to do with bad hair advice, "i don't take advice from a fat person unless it's cooking?

Huh? So if a lawyer was giving you valuable advice you would reject it if she was fat? I just don't understand it...anyway, the women were a bit catty and if they meant this as some sort of promo, it failed. Miserably.

Happy Friday.

 

[TamaraShaniece]

...pot meet kettle... That's funny.

I had a horrible wash n go experience but that doesn't mean that The Curly Girls Guide, MahoganyCurls, etc are ill forming their views/readers wrong information.

 

[cookiemonster287]

Welp...... guess marketing their salon got thrown out the window.

 

[SelahOco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bQl-pPCmMKA#!

At approximately 3:41/42 in the video they are combing the client's hair on the end root to tip.

They need to buy VictoriaCrystal's ebook on how to comb from the ends up!

Tip: all hair has ends. The ends have been there the longest.

 

[MileHighDiva]

Tip: all hair has ends. The ends have been there the longest.

Tip: you should comb/detangle from the bottom, starting with your ends. Not, from root to tip(ends).

Sent from my Speak & Spell using LHCF

 

[SelahOco]

Tip: you should comb/detangle from the bottom, starting with your ends. Not, from root to tip(ends).

Sent from my Speak & Spell using LHCF

I wasn't mocking you. I was adding another handy ebook tip to those in my siggy.

MileHighDiva

Your tip is too useful.

 

[MileHighDiva]

SelahOco

Gurl, I had to switch from my speak & spell to my laptop, to see what your talking about in your siggy.

That is hilarious! Captain Obvious

 

[Ogoma]

None of your comments have been particularly enlightening so there is really no food for thought. I think you are projecting your own issues onto everyone else. If you have issues with your hair, you should deal with it, but don't assume other women do as well.

A wash and go does not automatically damage hair. In one comment, you felt using products to do a wash and go was symptomatic of some hatred for type 4 hair and now using products is not a problem. I did wash and gos (co-wash, leave-in, gel, and go) for almost a whole year. It took me much less time than twists - 20-30 mins and did not damage my hair at all.

What you and the salon people fail to realize is we are all not you. Stop projecting your issues onto the rest of us.

Twists in general do not damage hair unless you neglect them as described, so most people will not decry them or the time it takes to do them. By the nature of the style (it is not a style that is trying to look like it grew naturally that way from your head), it is a form of manipulation for hair adornment, as is braiding or putting barrettes in your hair. Every woman on the planet of every race does that, and will continue to do that for as long as we exist with hair.

As for your second paragraph, most women (who have the means to anyway) wear their hair in a permanent 'what it's not' state to look more attractive or feel good about themselves. The problem arises when they engage in practices that actually harm their hair in order to achieve that state, and where black women in particular face the most emotional landmines in respect to our relationship with what grows naturally out of our heads. No one wants any one to look or feel bad about their hair, but if they are willing to actually abuse or even sacrifice that hair to get a certain look, then how can you say they are truly embracing what they have, even if they are natural? Just some food for thought.

 

[koolkittychick]

None of your comments have been particularly enlightening so there is really no food for thought. I think you are projecting your own issues onto everyone else. If you have issues with your hair, you should deal with it, but don't assume other women do as well.

Now I'm confused. Where in any of my previous statements did you get that?

A wash and go does not automatically damage hair. In one comment, you felt using products to do a wash and go was symptomatic of some hatred for type 4 hair and now using products is not a problem. I did wash and gos (co-wash, leave-in, gel, and go) for almost a whole year. It took me much less time than twists - 20-30 mins and did not damage my hair at all.

Again, where did I say the bolded? And as I told the other poster, it's great that that method of styling works for you without damage to your hair, but it does not work for all, and especially not in the true "wash 'n' go" sense.

What you and the salon people fail to realize is we are all not you. Stop projecting your issues onto the rest of us.

I do not have issues with my hair. That is why I have never used gel of any kind in my life, because I do not mind my fuzzy edges or frizzy curls because that is how my hair grows out of my head, even when I am deep into a stretch and I am managing two different textures. I do not appreciate catty responses to my thoughts or opinions, especially when I make the effort to present them in as non-judgmental and non-confrontational manner as possible. If I hit a nerve with you, I did not mean to. But that does not give you the right to put words into my mouth and judge me on them.

 

[JaneBond007]

Watching right now....


Their demeanor of sniggling, snickering at "polymer" and etc., so very ignorant and unprofessional. Now, who on earth rakes through their hair the next day? Maybe they should get a few more YT's on how people are doing their "WNG's" because this is just plain ignorant. No gel??? Why? It's a styling agent. Now, if I wanted to be a shaved head like them, so be it. Note that snark she said to elephantitis? "You can wear yours natural cuz you have curly hair." Um, do they think they are the sole curly heads in the world? Bet some TED hose for those edema legs! Last I looked, folks using gel and creams didn't have breakage and certainly didn't wait 5 years for 2 inches of hair.

 

[Shadiyah]

I see they disabled the comments. I really don't have time to be listening to people that are just haters and don't have a clue.

 

[Shadiyah]

these stylists are so mad and hating on the natural hair movement because the DIYers are cutting into their profits.

cutting into their profits and are growing their hair long. so what they came across a newbie that don't quite have it together yet.

but they know for the most part diyers have proved they can grow and take care of their own hair. you were not growing your hair up in their chair because they talk you into cutting yours.

 

[Shadiyah]

I was about to say I didn't know wash and go involves no combing. I thought it was just no styling or drying?

I don't comb my hair I use my fingers because if I use the comb I will mess up the curl pattern that I like which is my natural one the comb changes that.

 

[naturalmanenyc]

koolkittychick

I'm not invested in this thread but since you asked, no, my wash & go is not an afro if by afro you mean no curl pattern. My hair grows in tiny 1/8 inch curls. I have a ton of YouTube videos that show my various styles.

If YOU want YOUR wash & go to look like your mom's type 3 hair, well that isn't happening if you hair is like mine. You will need to do a twist out or braid and curl for that look.

I don't know every natural woman in the world to comment on how they want their wash & go to look; however, of the ones I know personally and those with whom I interact with on this hair board I know that they are realistic and know their 4a wash & go won't look like 3a hair.

Yes, your style was very cute (it looks like the curls i can create with a similar kind of styling), and I saw the video you did on how you achieved it. Based on the actual process, it is not a wash 'n' go. It is a "wash, condition, apply a ton of product, tease the hell out of the hair until curls form, apply more product, wait a looooong time to dry, then go." For me, this leads to dry hair and an itchy, sore scalp (due to product) and tangled mats that are not fixed with oil (my moody hair does not like oil; it prefers a select few water-based moisturizers ) You are lucky in that wash 'n' goes work for you. But for the women it does not work for (in that it damages their hair), it is a losing proposition for them to keep doing it. That is what the stylists were saying, albeit in a somewhat snarky way.

And you still did not negate the statement I made about how women want their "wash 'n' goes" to look. A real wash 'n' go for me is an Afto, and I am guessing that is the same for you as well. What you or I do to get your curls to pop is not a "wash 'n' go"--it is only that for women who have type 3 hair. If people want to slap a "good hair, bad hair" connotation on it, it's because they chose to misname that styling technique for type 4 hair. The term "shingling," coined by one of the curly hair care companies (I forget the name), attempts to resolve this, but it is yet another styling technique to achieve the same look, defined curly hair. Maybe if we were all not so hung up on curls, there wouldn't be so much conflicts or hangups about what people are trying to imply versus what they said, but I don't know.

 

[EnExitStageLeft]

@FreeLove

Please stop with this "Empowerment" and "Spreading Love" bullcrap. You three sat there with your smug little attitudes and basically berated every Type 4 woman for Wash N' Go'ing their hair. Then had the nerve to actually come on here and defend yourself as if you're right?

Sad thing is, you guys probably really do think you were being consummate professionals and actually "helping" poor little delusional naturals "Trying to be something they're not". When all actuality you were horrendously unprofessional and it was HORRIBLE for business. *SIGH* Po' Lil' Tink' Tink'

 

[chejam]

Ladies I think she may not come back.. lol

 

[koolkittychick]

@koolkittychick

I'm not invested in this thread but since you asked, no, my wash & go is not an afro if by afro you mean no curl pattern. My hair grows in tiny 1/8 inch curls. I have a ton of YouTube videos that show my various styles.

If YOU want YOUR wash & go to look like your mom's type 3 hair, well that isn't happening if you hair is like mine. You will need to do a twist out or braid and curl for that look.

I don't know every natural woman in the world to comment on how they want their wash & go to look; however, of the ones I know personally and those with whom I interact with on this hair board I know that they are realistic and know their 4a wash & go won't look like 3a hair.

I never said the bolded. I know what my hair does after I wash and let air dry, and I actually liked it. That's why I wore my wash 'n' go Afro for the last five of the twenty-plus years I was natural. I just couldn't handle the tangling and matting that happened back then when I wore it that way (I was less knowledgeable on natural hair care back then) without breaking it off and tearing it out. If I ever go natural again, I know how to rock my Afro-textured hair proudly and not have breakage. You have a defined curl pattern and that's great. For most women I know, if they attempted a wash 'n' go and could not achieve that defined curl, they would have considered it a fail, and try something else. I never did that, so take what you will from that. I am just expressing my opinion, but people keep trying to turn it into something else, and I refuse to let that happen.

 

[empressri]

Lord help me.

First off, MOST people that do go to salons don't know how to care for their hair, how to style it and so forth, hence why they usually end up doing more damage than good, and then rush to salons (like so) and start hollering for someone to help them.

DIYers that know how to do a wash and go PROPERLY, which equates for them knowing what works for their hair and what doesn't, aren't breaking their hair off and damaging it. Just saying.

So with that being said, it's really asinine to make broad assumptions especially when you're trying to make money. EGO is right, I would damn sure never go to this salon because it's plain that folks need to do a little more research.

The lie is all of this bullshhhh I'm listening. Wash and go was 'created' for xyz? GTFOOHWTBS.

Lord help me, I can never get back that 5 minutes of my life.

 

[empressri]

Watching right now....


Their demeanor of sniggling, snickering at "polymer" and etc., so very ignorant and unprofessional. Now, who on earth rakes through their hair the next day? Maybe they should get a few more YT's on how people are doing their "WNG's" because this is just plain ignorant. No gel??? Why? It's a styling agent. Now, if I wanted to be a shaved head like them, so be it. Note that snark she said to elephantitis? "You can wear yours natural cuz you have curly hair." Um, do they think they are the sole curly heads in the world? Bet some TED hose for those edema legs! Last I looked, folks using gel and creams didn't have breakage and certainly didn't wait 5 years for 2 inches of hair.

I'm not even going to mention how that whole little thingy was obviously not right off the top of their head, clearly research was put into this video because she sounded unsure the entire time. If you can't even speak with conviction and make me believe that you KNOW what you're talking about, you darn sure can't come within 100 feet of my hair.