Real Talk: Please give me examples and numbers
- Thread starter FAMUDva
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Duchesse
Well-Known Member
I know a few BW with longer than APL hair. One is almost MBL, and only relaxes once a year. The other is tall like me with MBL hair, she mildly relaxes her hair..she had natural almost booty length hair in high school. The other has almost waist length hair, she too mildly relaxes her hair, and was a waist length natural hair before.
The commonality is lack of chemicals and harsh stuff.
We all know after being on LHCF that the way you treat your hair is the ONLY reason why it will grow or won't grow (break off). I've never believed the hype that other ethnicities supposedly grow hair faster than me.
The commonality is lack of chemicals and harsh stuff.
We all know after being on LHCF that the way you treat your hair is the ONLY reason why it will grow or won't grow (break off). I've never believed the hype that other ethnicities supposedly grow hair faster than me.
jahzyira
New Member
Im a chicago native and i can totally agree, the longer haired black gurls were always in the more nicer areas ( hyde park, burbs, northside) But back then in the late 90s i was the "hair miracle" in the "bad neighborhoods"
Now here i was with super thin super damaged apl and everybody and they momma used to always have their hands in my hair(feeling for tracks of course) But to be honest, here in oakland ive only seen a few people that have hair bsl and longer, but of course they were mixed and the hair was 3a-3b. Right now i think im the only black person in my specific neighborhood with "long hair" and the funny part is i dont get real compliments unless i wear a wash n go or when my braidouts get old and frizzy. Everyone almost always assumes that my flat ironed or freshly relaxed hair is a weave 
FAMUDva
Well-Known Member
I LOVE your bun
Most of the black women I know IRL have very healthy hair (relaxed and natural) and many don't have hair longer than SL-APL. Amongst my friends, that IS considered long.
SheenaVee
Well-Known Member
when i was in school me and another girl were the only ones with bsl hair in my year who were black. not too sure about the rest of the school coz i didnt really pay too much attention but im sure that if there were other black girls in other years with bsl or longer hair i would have noticed.
forgot to add: there were a lot of people with shoulder length though.
forgot to add: there were a lot of people with shoulder length though.
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ryanshope
Well-Known Member
For real; I only know maybe 2 or 3 that have BSL or longer hair; my mother's cousin and her daughter. They have 3c/3b hair. I have APL/Collarbone; and I don't know any naturals that are past shoulder length in real life. I don't know; I think most women don't have the knowledge or the time to really investigate how to treat their hair.
My opinion; we as black women are taught that our hair must look "good"-- and typically it required alot of HEAT and Chemicals; until LHCF I thought shampooing my hair was BAD, that grease made it grow and that I had to hot curl it twice a day to keep my style fresh. All hair dressers had "growing hands" and I relaxers were required on a monthly basis.
I am alot more educated about hair now but I still can't convert my relatives--let alone people in the street so we as black women need to demand that the hair industry keep it real and stop misleading the masses.
My opinion; we as black women are taught that our hair must look "good"-- and typically it required alot of HEAT and Chemicals; until LHCF I thought shampooing my hair was BAD, that grease made it grow and that I had to hot curl it twice a day to keep my style fresh. All hair dressers had "growing hands" and I relaxers were required on a monthly basis.
I am alot more educated about hair now but I still can't convert my relatives--let alone people in the street so we as black women need to demand that the hair industry keep it real and stop misleading the masses.
Latomian
New Member
Not BSL...just a few that I've seen with BSL however, I have seen plenty of black women with APL hair. And healthy! An old friend and I noticed an increase when we went to college and wondered where all these long haired ladies were coming from. All different shades of color and ethnicities. I went to FSU and FAMU is right across the way so perhaps I had a larger,um, sample to observe but that's just what I noticed.
ETA: My sister has BSL (her hair is 3c), I've had BSL hair and I'm 4a. My cousin, now, has WL hair and she's 4b. Her sister is 4a with a little past BSL.
ETA: My sister has BSL (her hair is 3c), I've had BSL hair and I'm 4a. My cousin, now, has WL hair and she's 4b. Her sister is 4a with a little past BSL.
FAMUDva
Well-Known Member
Nails???? There is not as much difference in the texture of nails from race to race.
I guess we'll agree to disagree.I just know the Taiwanese lady behind me didn't MTG, MSM, MT, Biotin, or whateva and she beat me...
Maybe I'm just salty that I'm trying so hard and it keeps being stated on LHCF that we're "the same"... And I'm thinking most of the time (and not commenting): "Nah Shawty, we AIN'T the same". But at the same time, I'm not a person that believes there is anything wrong with being different. As someone said about our skin... we're all of the human race, but there is certainly a reason that Black women and Asian women don't typically show thier age as fast as white women. I'm just saying, if you gonna use nails, use the differences in skin too
snillohsss
New Member
As someone pointed out earlier... how many black women WANT BSL or longer length hair? I think most here want it...that is why they are on the Longhaircare forum. For me.. my goal is APL length. I am pretty sure I don't want BSL hair. I was one who would chop it off for fashion...then when I wanted to grow it out.. I hated how it looked, so I chopped it off again.
I have shown my husband some of the pictures of the ladies here with long hair (BSL/waistlength..) and his first response was.. " its just looks like a ton of hair. Its too long."
If I happen to grow it to BSL length.. I would definitely get quite a few layers in it.
I have shown my husband some of the pictures of the ladies here with long hair (BSL/waistlength..) and his first response was.. " its just looks like a ton of hair. Its too long."
If I happen to grow it to BSL length.. I would definitely get quite a few layers in it.
BklynHeart
Well-Known Member
Another part of it is fashion. Younger black women may be able to grow it to their toes, but will hack it off because "RhiRhi" wears a short cut. Let Bey start wearing a Halle cut and see how fast some folk drop their weaves and lacefronts!
A number of older women keep their hair short for convenience, and because the perception used to be that long hair (especially worn down) was for younger women (read: unmarried). Married women were taking care of the children and the house and didn't have a lot of "spare" time to tend to long tresses.
Neither of the above examples addresses the ABILITY to have long hair; just the preference to have it. I think you will agree that 4a/b hair isn't wash and go hair; we don't generally get up in the morning wash our hair in the shower, comb it out and go to work while it airdries hanging down our back like many non-black women I have seen during my morning commute. I know my mother's hair was natural MBL my entire life, but when I was a child I had to beg her to wear it down -- the French roll was her standard style because it took too much time to deal with if she wore it down. Think of Sunday morning - trying to get me dressed for church, herself, and bonus time for her hair. We'd have been up before dawn!
Back to the original question though: do you all realize how lucky you are to be somewhere where you SEE black women on a regular basis? I live out in a cornfield
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!! I've seen ALOT of black women with long hair in NYC, so to me it wasn't a real shock. Yet, I knew some that wanted to cut their hair off because they were tired of dealing with it and wanted a new look. One girlfriend from school always had long hair, WL. After 10 years she cut it off. She actually looked younger and fresher.
And having long hair does NOT mean you're from a more priviledge or successful background. I can't count how many VP's Directors (black) I've met at work that had jacked up hair. They didn't know how to take care of it and/or was too busy to go to the hairdresser. So, they kept their haircut short but it wasn't healthy.
FAMUDva
Well-Known Member
Completely off the subject but... GO RATTLERS! YAY!
My lil brother graduates from FSU this spring.
FAMUDva
Well-Known Member
Alot of them on LHCF want MBL, WL, etc... but how many have it?
ETA: Any of y'all ever take the "average" of total subscribers of LHCF and various lengths? Or shoot, just take the average of users that regularly post... anybody????
i have observed this as well...i've always thought in general, that the more educated (and when i say educated i mean it is a literal, traditional sense i.e. college education) the person's background the longer the person's hair is and the longer their children's hair will be...call me "elitiest" if you want to...
now to answer your question, FAMU;
before LHCF my hair never fully touched my bra strap. i was full bra strap in september of 08 before i chopped it back to APL so i know that my hair can grow longer if i keep the scissors out of it.
now in my personal life i know at least 4 people with BSL or longer - that's people i know PERSONALLY...
my sister (whose hair was NEVER past like NL prior or her healthy hair journey...her hair grows HELLA slow but she has been able to retain and grow her hair the longest it's ever been....it took her to get from a halle berry to the length she is now - just below BSL - 5.5 years)
one of my sorors (who BTW has ALWAYS had long hair...) and her sister.
and one of the ladies in another organization that i'm in...
and that's just thinking off the top of my head. if i thought about it i'm sure i could think of more...
not everyone's hair grows fast period. not everyone gets that 6" per year period
but i KNOW with persistence, patience and some TLC you can reach your goals. if my sister can do it ANYONE can. and i say that with conviction!
hang in there sis! :hug:
LisaLisa1908
What 40 looks like.
I know about 5 or so women personally with BSL or longer that are black.
I think it's LESS about growth and MORE about retention with us. Clearly, if you're having to go get a relaxer every 4-8 weeks, your hair is growing, not "reverting."
If we all knew what to do in order to retain our hair, and consistently DID IT, I think we'd all have longer hair. Seeing as many of us are undoing years if not decades of bad habits, we can't expect immediate results. Your hair did not get to the stage it's in overnight, so it won't be miraculously healed overnight either.
I think it's LESS about growth and MORE about retention with us. Clearly, if you're having to go get a relaxer every 4-8 weeks, your hair is growing, not "reverting."
If we all knew what to do in order to retain our hair, and consistently DID IT, I think we'd all have longer hair. Seeing as many of us are undoing years if not decades of bad habits, we can't expect immediate results. Your hair did not get to the stage it's in overnight, so it won't be miraculously healed overnight either.
soulie
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely correct!!
supermodelsonya
New Member
Why is so hard for people to accept that when it comes to hair we are genetically different from other "races". Just like because of the makeup of our skin we are less likely to get skin cancer, we also age better. I mean Cot Damn...
About 90% of the women in my life have had hair BSL or longer.
When it comes to other women it's rare for me to see anyone with BSL hair or longer.
Gee when you put it like that, I guess its okay. LOL. I didnt think about that. But I don't feel inferior that my hair is different...
Lynnerie
Well-Known Member
Our hair requires different attention because it is a different texture. Yes we know its fragile because of the curls and bends but if we educated ourselves on what we needed to do there would be more longer-haired blacks (for those of us who want longer hair)
A lot of black women have bad hair practices and are trying to make their hair do something it doesn't i.e. relaxers. And then some abuse relaxers and heat.
Like someone else said its more about hair care and retention than the actual growth rate. Look at how many women on LHCF came with jacked hair and have long hair now or who have since gone natural.
When you know better you do better.
But to answer the question I know about 7 women with at least BSL or longer hair. And the commonality among them are they are either natural or don't relax often. They also do not wear weaves or extentions which I personally believe hinders our hair growth because of the stress on the scalp.
A lot of black women have bad hair practices and are trying to make their hair do something it doesn't i.e. relaxers. And then some abuse relaxers and heat.
Like someone else said its more about hair care and retention than the actual growth rate. Look at how many women on LHCF came with jacked hair and have long hair now or who have since gone natural.
When you know better you do better.
But to answer the question I know about 7 women with at least BSL or longer hair. And the commonality among them are they are either natural or don't relax often. They also do not wear weaves or extentions which I personally believe hinders our hair growth because of the stress on the scalp.
Junebug D
Well-Known Member
Think of all the things we do to our fragile hair. Our hair is different, our growth rate is NOT dfferent. the average human being-- regardless of race-- will get that .5 inches. On average, how many of us here get that without growth aids? Let's do a poll and we'll see the bell curve at 0.5.
The reason our hair is shorter is because our hair is breaking off just as fast, if not faster than it's growing. The same just is not true about other women, and in most cases it has been that way since we were very young kids. Most of these other women aren't 25 and just now learning/growing after being EL all their lives. Many of us are starting out that way because our parents did not have the knowledge. I watched my niece's hair progress from two pigtails at an average SL length at 3, to when they started complaining that her hair was "unmanageable" and "unruly" as her texture changed with age, and it started to break off to where it will likely be until someone shows her better than kiddie perms and pressing combs and rattail combs and hair grease. Or think of how many of us had longer hair as a young child when our moms just used to put us in 2 braided pigtails and called it a day, vs. when you got to high school and started thinking you were cute & cool and doing all of this other stuff to your hair like relaxing?
Once we get the knowledge of how to properly care for it, we start to fare better as evidenced here, but even then many of us are still having breakage just because our hair is super fragile.
And look around-- BSL, MBL, WL is rare on other chicks as well. I've been paying more attention to everyone's hair length lately, and on other women... they are usually between SL and APL. It's hard for us to notice that just because it's more than what we see in our own communities, but pay extra attention when you are at work or in other neighborhoods. I see about 75% SL and APL.
6 inches a year is the average, regardless. Retention is the key. And yes, retention is much more difficult for us. Yet almost everyone I know with dredlocks has hair that is past APL, BSL... WL & beyond if it could be straightened. Imagine that.
The reason our hair is shorter is because our hair is breaking off just as fast, if not faster than it's growing. The same just is not true about other women, and in most cases it has been that way since we were very young kids. Most of these other women aren't 25 and just now learning/growing after being EL all their lives. Many of us are starting out that way because our parents did not have the knowledge. I watched my niece's hair progress from two pigtails at an average SL length at 3, to when they started complaining that her hair was "unmanageable" and "unruly" as her texture changed with age, and it started to break off to where it will likely be until someone shows her better than kiddie perms and pressing combs and rattail combs and hair grease. Or think of how many of us had longer hair as a young child when our moms just used to put us in 2 braided pigtails and called it a day, vs. when you got to high school and started thinking you were cute & cool and doing all of this other stuff to your hair like relaxing?
Once we get the knowledge of how to properly care for it, we start to fare better as evidenced here, but even then many of us are still having breakage just because our hair is super fragile.
And look around-- BSL, MBL, WL is rare on other chicks as well. I've been paying more attention to everyone's hair length lately, and on other women... they are usually between SL and APL. It's hard for us to notice that just because it's more than what we see in our own communities, but pay extra attention when you are at work or in other neighborhoods. I see about 75% SL and APL.
6 inches a year is the average, regardless. Retention is the key. And yes, retention is much more difficult for us. Yet almost everyone I know with dredlocks has hair that is past APL, BSL... WL & beyond if it could be straightened. Imagine that.
Neith
New Member
Nails???? There is not as much difference in the texture of nails from race to race.
I just know the Taiwanese lady behind me didn't MTG, MSM, MT, Biotin, or whateva and she beat me...
But at the same time, I'm not a person that believes there is anything wrong with being different. As someone said about our skin... we're all of the human race, but there is certainly a reason that Black women and Asian women don't typically show thier age as fast as white women. I'm just saying, if you gonna use nails, use the differences in skin too
but that doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of white women that age well... and plenty of black women who don't age well. Why do we feel the need to make wide generalizations?
The process of nail growth is very similar to the process of hair growth. If they are growing hair SO much faster than us, then why wouldn't it be feasible that their nails would grow faster too?
erplexedI've said a lot of things, but this is what it boils down to.
In my opinion:
Kinky hair is generally the most fragile hair and breaks very easily. We grow hair as easy as anyone else, but it's more of a struggle to retain that growth...
Different textures need different types of handling and care, but the actual way our hair grows (hair cells divide, hair cells die, hair cells become keratinized and push out the scalp) is the same process.
At no point did I ever state that there are NO differences in race. There are minor, mostly superficial differences PHYSICALLY.
The darkest African and most pale European probably are more that 99% identical if you look at their DNA. Some groups of people may have resistances and weaknesses to some things, but that doesn't mean we are of a different species or something! The way our bodies work? The same.
Our facial features and skin color? Our cultures? That's when it seems that we are so different.
My point is hair growth is a BODILY FUNCTION. The hair texture IS different, the process of hair growth isn't.
I'm not some idiot claiming that there is no difference at all between the races. When it comes to BASIC bodily functions, I do think we are the same and I can't imagine why any educated person in 2009 would think otherwise. That's all.
Whew, another essay. I'm really going to stop now. I said my piece. Just wanted to put it out there. Now I'm going to go do something more productive, lol.
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naturalgurl
New Member
I don't want to read other posts yet as to not distort how I answer this genuinely. To be honest, in all races most have average at MBL. You on occassion see them with waist hair and then that's considered long by all races, ethnicities and colors. In my family, to bring it down, there is a mixture of blood. My grandmother was a Louisiana mulatta(sp?) passing for white with hair to her hip. It was pretty much straight with no curls. Out of her children (girls) only one aunt had hair that was BSL and her hair was 4a hair. Yeah, she produced a daughter that looks like me with hair like mine. My mother and the other aunt have fine curly hair but never got past shoulder length. It got thinner as it got longer so they always wore short cuts. My female cousins, my sister and myself, the longest I can recall any of us having was BSL. These all textures ranging from 2b to 4b. So I feel ya', now let me go read the other responses...I hope I read this correctly and answered this on topic and not off.
LunadeMiel
Well-Known Member
Because of our location (environment) and breeding amongst ourselves it is only logical that certain beneficial genetic traits would have been passed along. Considering where are ancestors originated I consider slower hair growth combined with our hair texture to be beneficial.but that doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of white women that age well... and plenty of black women who don't age well. Why do we feel the need to make wide generalizations?
We make generalizations everyday. Marriage rate, intelligence, weight. Do you dispute that? On average Americans tend to be fatter than europeans? Does that mean every American is fatter than every single European?
On average the male penis is about 5 inches long (worlwide). But... on average Indian men to tend to smaller... Does that mean evey Indian man has a smaller than Average penis...NO...
The process of nail growth is very similar to the process of hair growth. If they are growing hair SO much faster than us, then why wouldn't it be feasible that their nails would grow faster too?
Different genes code for different things. I'm sure the coding for nail growth is not exactly the same for hair growth....
I've said a lot of things, but this is what it boils down to.
In my opinion:
Kinky hair is generally the most fragile hair and breaks very easily. We grow hair as easy as anyone else, but it's more of a struggle to retain that growth...
Different textures need different types of handling and care, but the actual way our hair grows (hair cells divide, hair cells die, hair cells become keratinized and push out the scalp) is the same process.
No one is disputing that....all skin heals by the same process but that doesn't mean that some people will naturally heal better than others....For some their coding allows them an advantage...
At no point did I ever state that there are NO differences in race. There are minor, mostly superficial differences PHYSICALLY.
The darkest African and most pale European probably are more that 99% identical if you look at their DNA. Some groups of people may have resistances and weaknesses to some things, but that doesn't mean we are of a different species or something! The way our bodies work? The same.
Our facial features and skin color? Our cultures? That's when it seems that we are so different.
My point is hair growth is a BODILY FUNCTION. The hair texture IS different, the process of hair growth isn't.
I'm not some idiot claiming that there is no difference at all between the races. When it comes to BASIC bodily functions, I do think we are the same and I can't imagine why any educated person in 2009 would think otherwise. That's all.
Whew, another essay. I'm really going to stop now. I said my piece. Just wanted to put it out there. Now I'm going to go do something more productive, lol.
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bermudabeauty
New Member
APL I see more. BSL...not so much. MBL hardly ever
Neith
New Member
Where did you ever read or hear about Africans having slower growth as a rule? Kinky hair, yes I know it is beneficial in that environment, but to develop slower growth? Never read it.
Could you provide a few links or articles/books from reputable sources that state that people of African decent developed slow growing hair because of the environment?
glamazon386
Well-Known Member
My guess would be SL or APL. Most of the people here have not graduated to the "long hair category" by board standards for various reasons (setbacks, bad chemical services, hair cuts, botched trims, BCing, and so on). Hell I've been here going on 4 years and I still haven't.
LunadeMiel
Well-Known Member
Didnt someone point out a study? Isn't this where this thread stemmed from. I have read this somewhere. Let me go find the link.
As far as my comment, it was based off of taking over 6 years of biology which included evolution and natural selection. My point was that, it would make sense to have slower hair and kinkier texture based on the environment that we originated from.
What sense would it make to have fast growing hair that would only keep your head hot thus increasing your brain temp. Just a few degrees above normal would cause irreperable damage to protein bonds. It would make sense that this combined with a kinkier texture would be beneficial to our survival. Heat needs to excape. A lot of hair on your head would serve to insulate your scalp thus, making it harder for it to excape.
ETA:
http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_21.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=0407391e950c58304781f18e0c012e6c
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Br*nzeb*mbsh~ll
Well-Known Member
I think it's more economically-based.
Those that are financially able to have their hair professionally cared for usually retain their hair, have longer hair, healthier hair, etc.
This is compared to diy-ers, home-based relaxers, being unable to purchase hair products, etc...I don't think it's based on one's intellectual output as it is one's financial income.
Those that are financially able to have their hair professionally cared for usually retain their hair, have longer hair, healthier hair, etc.
This is compared to diy-ers, home-based relaxers, being unable to purchase hair products, etc...I don't think it's based on one's intellectual output as it is one's financial income.
LayneJ
Well-Known Member
I'm not Luna, but I recall reading somewhere that people of African descent do, in fact, have a slower hair growth rate than those of Asian or Caucasian descent. However, I don't *think* either source mentioned if it was because of the environment.
ETA: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11531795
http://www.hair-science.com/_int/_en/topic/topic_sousrub.aspx?tc=ROOT-HAIR-SCIENCE^LIVING-AND-RELIVING^ELSEWHERE-IN-WORLD&cur=ELSEWHERE-IN-WORLD
And to answer the OP's question: I've known 1 self-identifying black woman with MBL hair. I know/have known quite a few with APL hair, though.
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