Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...

[Armyqt]

Hi Hennajoy, thanks for responding to my post. Like I said before, you seem to know a whole lot about henna. Please don't take my post as a "blast", those were very genuine questions. I am merely trying to further my knowledge. I had one completely different idea of what henna was and does, and you posted alot of information that I was unaware of. Thanks again for the info.

 

[LuvableLady]

It is some really good information in this thread. Thanks everyone. /images/graemlins/smile.gif


Hennajoy,

I have a package each of pure black & red henna and they contain henna (Lawsonia inermis) only so I know these are hennas.

I also have a package of what I believe is pure neutral henna (Lyzitus spina christi).

My question is have you ever heard of the neutral henna that I have in my possession, or, is this not considered henna?

Thanks!

 

[CynamonKis]

Hennajoy - welcome & thanks for the wealth of information on henna.

Today, I picked up earth brown Hennalucent & became aprehensive after reading the instructions as they relate to gray hair--the hennalucent package stated it doesn't cover gray, but provides red highlights to hair that is less than 15% gray. Most of my desire to use henna is for the conditioning benefits but also to cover the slight gray around my hairline. Since I've used chemical services in the past I thought Hennalucent was the safest bet but now I'm concerned about the gray and really don't want to use neutral henna, only to have to use a semi permanent color on top of it to deal with the gray. I don't believe a harvest test will give me much feedback because the gray, being near the hairline, never shows up in my brush so I'll have to test it on my hair directly to see.

 

[HennaJoy]

Hi Iris,

It does seem that the Hennalucent is doing some good things for the hair. In terms of hair henna, what is typically considered to be "henna" is 100% natural henna. And a "henna product" is considered to be a product with 100% natural henna plus one other herb...usually the herb is added to change the color from red to another color or to enhance the coloring effect of the henna powder itself. The latter is usually referred to as "herbal/henna." With products under those categories, you are going to get the results of the henna as a conditioner and colorant. I have not said that Hennalucent does not or can not do a good job conditioning your hair. Just that it doesn't fall into the categories that are typically considered "henna" or "henna products...herbal/henna." I think I saw a post above that has a listing of the ingredients in Hennalucent. Natural and herbal/henna products will have either one or two ingredients listed. I am not sure what all of the other ingredients in Hennalucent does, but I would attribute the results to some of those things rather than to the content of henna. I would also say that results you obtained from Hennalucent that differed from the other conditioners used in the past is a comparison of Hennalucent and the other products rather than comparing the other products to henna.

My statement was that the positive results could be from the extra added conditioners or Hennalucent or the combination. But that some of the other results that were not as positive would also need to be attributed to those things rather than to henna. If your hair is behaving as you wish and love, then that is a good thing. It sounds like the Hennalucent and anything else you are using is working for you. The distinction I am making is that Hennalucent and what is referred to as henna/henna products/herbal/henna" are different things...as reflected in the ingredients list of Hennalucent. This doesn't just apply to Hennalucent. I think I said, that there are lots and lots of products today that have included henna in the name that actually are very different from henna and contain very very little henna in them.

The adding of essential or other oils to henna will have create problems only if you are not interested in color results. If you want the best coloration from henna, then the addition of most essential oils and other oils can hamper the dyes from working at their best. The exception to these would be what is considered "terps"...cajeput, tea tree oil, lavender, ravensara, some rosemary and some eucalyptus oils. These essential oils have an effect of nuking the color darker. And some are also good for hair and skin...tea tree for example is found in lots of skin and hair products. If color is not important then it doesn't matter that it is impaired. If color is important then the oils can be problematic. Some oils also have a drying effect on hair and skin while others work to hold moisture in the hair and skin. If your hair and scalp is already dry and an oil that has a drying effect is added to your paste, it works counter to the henna paste and counter to your desired outcome. Sometimes, people attribute the dryness to henna when it was the oils at work. The converse is try with people with really oily hair using an oil that saturates the hair and scalp. They have sometimes described henna as making their hair limp when it was the oil at work rather than the henna. That is why I referred to them as being counterproductive rather than actually detrimental...but perhaps deterimental to expected outcomes.

Hope that is clearer.

HennaJoy

 

[iris]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Iris said:
Thanks for your comments, because I really appreciate them I have a few questions to ask you. You said you've been using henna for years and I would like to know:

1. Someone posted a link explaining that if you wanted black hair, using henna with indigo would give you the desired results. I'm a great lover of jet-black hair, and I'm wondering is this the only procedure you would use or is there another process to get jet-black hair using natural henna?

2. Using the hennalucent has helped me transition from relaxed to natural hair successfully. Currently, my hair is almost 3 inches away from being bra-strap, with no damage or breakage at all while using this product on my chemically straightened hair, and I was wondering how long is your hair? I ask this because though long-hair isn't universal for everyone, the desire for healthy hair is, and I know that this product does an excellent job at retaining the strength of the strands.


[/ QUOTE ]

HennaJoy you answered my questions about what constitutes natural henna well, but the above are two other questions I had for you on my previous thread. Thanks.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
VALLEYGIRL said:
The lady in Sally's told me it was basically just a conditioning semi-permenant coloring and not henna at all. It has a coating/sealing effect on the hair similar to a Sebastian Colorshines.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish you would have asked her to explain to you if all hennalucent is, is quivalent to a "colorshine" and not really henna at all, then how in the world does it loosen up the curl pattern of the hair? Because my hair is sure straighter using it.

 

[HennaJoy]

Sorry Iris, I didn't even see the questions you had in your post. Here are my best thoughts:

1. There are herbal/hennas that do the same thing in one step. The indigo process is interesting...takes longer...and is just another way to do the same thing that an herbal/henna in black will do. A two step henna and herbal/henna process is usually required by people wanting black hair when they also have grey hair. It is necessary to take the white hair to red and then from red to black.

2. I wear my hair in a big ole 'fro and have refused to go to a beautician or barber in two years because they like to "even it up"..."trim your ends" and we all know what that means about how much of your hair ends up on the floor... /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Right now my hair pulled straight from the nape of my neck is at least 8 inches long. On the top and sides it is longer. My hair is real healthy and strong. I have that multi-textured hair thing going on. The back curls tighter...just springs back...though the henna does loosen it more than it was without henna. The front, sides and top of my hair grows from the scalp in one wave and then goes straight. But it is a straight that sticks straight up and out...not straight that lays down. So I manage it by braiding it and rolling it while wet. Larger rollers in the back and smaller rollers in the front. That gives me the curl I need in the front and keeps the curl loose in the back. Some idea of the length on the top and sides is that sitting in my car flattens it out on the top...think really big 'afro from the 60's and 70's and you've got it...lol!!! Think Angela Davis of the past and Erika Badu (might be spelled wrong) at the NAACP Image Awards. That's the picture. I most often wear it with a scarf wrapped around it to pull the hair back into a bush. I believe the secret to the growth is primarily that it is no longer breaking off.

Long hair wasn't or isn't my goal. Actually it is healthy hair and scalp I have pursued and found with henna and lotus powder. And what I have avoided has been beauticians, barbers, products that gook up my hair and feel yucky on my scalp...hair I can't wear out in the rain or have to do something extra to in hot humid weather that I love. The result has been healthy length and a hair routine that is extremely easy for me to follow. And in some ways the length is maintained because the front, top and sides of my hair won't provide the springy curl for a nice short 'afro. My dream has always been to eventually have a short totally white 'afro...but the top and sides et. al. won't cooperate. So we work with what we have.

HennaJoy

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

Thank you Henna Joy for answering my questions...
Here are the ingredients for the HennaLucent:

Henna, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Sucrose, Quaternium-19, Hydrolyzed Animal Protein, Guar Hydroxypropyl Trimonium Chloride, Citric Acid, Glyceryl Stearate SE, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Stearalkonium Chloride, Fragrance, Plant Extracts and other ingredients.

Henna is listed as the first ingredient but the product description says: Hennalucent is a unique formulation of micro-refined henna, hydrolyzed protein, pH neutralizers and rich, organic conditioners.

So now I am curious as to what 'micro-refined' henna is.

I know ShiKai brand of shampoos and conditioners have a special process that they do to their nuetral henna in which they remove the lawsone molecule from the henna which makes it water soluble and also safe to use with chemical services.

I wonder if HennaLucent also does the same thing to their Henna?

Iris when youi call the company can you ask them please what this means? (Micro-Refined) I did a search and found nothing but the website for HennaLucent..Thanks!

I am just very curious b/c as an avid label reader it makes me wonder if what I am reading that's supposedly listed in a product is really in that product.

Thanks guys!!!

Valleygirl

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
then how in the world does it loosen up the curl pattern of the hair? Because my hair is sure straighter using it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I want to know also!!! How in the world does something that doesn't contain Sodium Hydroxide/Lye straighten someones hair?

I dont know if you remember way back when I had a phone consultation with Mr John? One of the things that he suggested was for me to deep condition with Apoghee every week for a month. This was to be done in order to loosen up my curl pattern and to help my hair straighten easier.

Needless to say I never did it b/c I like my curl pattern and texture but maybe there is some correlation to protein conditioners which henna is and HennaLucent and a binding and coating to the hair shaft and causing the hair to lay straighter and flatten out the curl/kink when used back to back like that? I really dont know.

I have used semi perm colors several times before and noticed no change in my curl pattern. The texture was a bit smoother but nothing drastic like the effects that ladies like you and Mahilalee and Amethyst have reported from using HennaLucent and other Henna powders.

I am anxiously awaiting what they say when you call them...
Valleygirl

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Applying Henna

Hi takbir,

Typically people henna their hair once a month. That has a lot to do with new growth. However, it is safer to henna more often. But once a month seems to be what most people...including myself...tend to do.

The process of mixing up the paste and applying and leaving on the henna paste really is a turn off to a lot of people. There is no quick way to do it because the henna paste needs to stay on the hair long enough to do its work. Here are a few things I do or have done that help:

1. Mix up a large batch of henna at one time. Mix up way more than you are going to use. Also, mix it up a bit thinner than usual. Let it "sit" covered a bit longer than usual. Stir the dye back into the paste after it has been released. Get some of those bottles that beauticians use to apply hair color and conditioners. Fill them with your paste. You then have a lot of paste mixed up to be used whenever you need to without having to mix it each time. Freeze the paste that you are not using. When you want it again, just thaw it out...stir it up really good and you are ready to go.

2. Putting all of that paste into one of those applicator bottles is easy if you get a big baggy like the freezer types. Put the paste into the big plastic bag. Don't fill the bag to the top. Seal the top...I use twisties, tape and/or rubber bands. Get someone to hold the bottle for you. Cut a hole in one bottom corner of the plastic bag half the size of the opening of the plastic applicator bottle. Hold the bag over the applicator bottle with the cut hole in the opening of the bottle. Squeeze the paste slowly into the bottle. Usually the paste will flow easily. Occasionally, lift the bag and tap the bottom of the bottle on a hard surface to get rid of bubbles and to push the paste to the bottom of the bottle. Continue until the bottle is filled. Fill as many bottles as you have paste. If you run out of bottles, squeeze the rest of the paste into another doubled plastic bag. Put the caps on your bottles...seal your doubled plastic bag and put them in the freezer until you need one to use. Saves a lot of time. When you are using the paste on your hair, cut a hole in the nozzle large enough to allow your paste to flow freely when you squeeze the bottle. Apply the henna to your hair. This is actually easier and neater than scooping the paste up from a bowl with your plastic gloved fingers and applying to your hair. You will still need the gloves though to work the henna into your hair from roots to ends.

Frozen paste to use on your hair will last forever in the freezer. Just be sure to mix and stir it up really well after it thaws because after a few months it tends to separate.

2. Rinsing henna out for me is best done while standing in the shower. Just strip and get into the shower and allow the warm water to wash out all of the henna. One of the problems people encounter is often with the difference in body quality henna and hair quality henna. Body quality henna is extremely well sifted and should rinse out without leaving any stems in your hair. Hair quality henna has not been sifted so well and can be a pain rinsing out thoroughly. I always go for the body quality henna because it is easier to rinse out. The henna should rinse out of your hair as easily as a mud pack facial will rinse off your skin. Sometimes the extra oils that are added to henna will make it more difficult to rinse out. If extra oils are added then as a last step after rinsing out the henna paste, use a mild diluted castile soap or a diluted baby shampoo should cut through the oils if they are creating a problem.

2. My henna hair time is part of what I set aside as part of my "me" time. Putting henna hair treatments into a busy schedule and busy day will just frustrate you. Think of it as pampering yourself. While the henna is in your hair, do your nails, give yourself a facial, play some music, watch your favorite movie, meditate...be into you. Then the time it takes to put it in are just moments devoted to you and just part of a series of things you are going to do to tend to yourself for a few hours. And rinsing it out is the same. I think my final rinse of my hair with the rose water is my reward to myself for taking this time out. It smells good...lifts my spirit and makes the combing out and braiding and rolling enjoyable. So you might want to make that final rinsing out something special. Put a few drops of your favorite oil in your hair at that time...something that smells good and is special and caps the experience off for you. Make it your reward for good self care.

4. Prep your henna hair space. I put plastic or newspaper on my bathroom floor. It is tiled but I don't want to look forward to scrubbing the bathroom floor in the middle of my self-care routine. Have your "henna clothes" and put them on while you are applying henna or have it in your hair. When I am finished with the henna routine, I put them in the washer then dry so they are ready for the next time. Before I did this, I messed up more clothes, robes, gowns, towels. So now I have designated "henna clothes" that are already messed up with henna stains that didn't wash out completely.

5. Combine rinsing out your henna from your hair with the final steps in other self-care activities like removing the hair from your legs, removing the mud pack from your face, removing a body scrub...so that the flow of water that is rinsing of henna from your hair is also removing the mud pack from your face, hair remover from your legs, scrub from your body. When you step out of the shower, you will have taken care of a lot of things at one time and probably feel really good because you've taken care of a lot of not fun parts of things we do all at one time.

Hope some of these things help. Henna ain't easy. But it is rewarding.

HennaJoy

 

[iris]

Re: Applying Henna

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
HennaJoy said:You will find that one benefit of henna is that it tends to "relax" or "loosens" the curl in your hair. With repeat use you may find the henna relaxing your hair sufficiently as it tends to continue to loosen the curl.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just finished reading the board with your henna comments on them. You told one girl who asked about relaxing her hair and using henna afterwards the above. My question to you is, if you have been using henna for years, how could your hair texture not lay flat, straight or the curl pattern be "loose", the way you said it would in the above comment? You said your hair after using henna doesn't lay straight but "afro-styled" like Angela Davis or am I misunderstanding what you have said? I thank you profusely and am very grateful for your patience in answering all these questions in detail they way you are /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for your patience and obvious commitment in helping us all to understand the beautiful attributes of this God-given gift called HENNA!

 

[Leshia]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
iris said:
The henna will soften and straighten the hair with each use /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You all are going to BREAK me. /images/graemlins/ohwell.gif

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

Hi again HennaJoy,

quick question for you....

Your hair texture has not been altered or straightened by the henna? You say you wear your hair in a big fro and it sounds lovely. But why is it that some henna users experience straighter hair after applying the Henna? Is it the back to back applications? Or is it when you use a Henna Product like hennalucent or henna powder mixed with other oils and conditioners that cause the change in texture?

Do you know what exactly is it about the henna that has a straightening/relaxing effect?

I am very curious. Forgive me if you already answered this. Just point me in the right direction!!!

Valleygirl

laughing b/c I just saw that Iris and I asked the same question!!!

 

[Leshia]

*just staring* I feel as though I've been back to college...this is just too much information for me to process! I don't see how you ladies do it. I'm going to "sit" on the whole henna-thing for a while. *laughing* I've got two boys, I can't think this much... /images/graemlins/nono.gif

 

[HennaJoy]

Hi Sweetcocoa,

Thanks for letting me know that I wasn't getting blasted. I never meant to give the impression that I was saying that Hennalucent would not provide good results...just that it is not the same as henna. From the results others here are reporting, it sounds like you may very well find the Hennalucent result much to your liking. So don't think that you wasted your time. If you like what happens with the harvest hair test, you are going to like what it does on all of your hair.

Lotus powder reduces the shrinkage but the truly noticeable reduction in frizz seems to be gotten under control a lot more by that second step that a lot of people here are using with another contioner that they don't rinse out completely. Because my hair is always either braided and rolled or in an 'afro, I haven't had to worry about frizz control. Have you ever tried braiding your hair when it is wet and then rolling it on appropiate size rollers. What that does is curl the end tips of the hair and at the same time keeps the hair from setting so tight. Don't get under a drier though. Driers can cause more shrinkage and and tightening of the curl. When the end tips are curled they don't stick out and the shape remains compact. I think if you try the braiding while wet, rolling and then picking out when dry, you might really like the effect and the second step of the not completely rinsed out conditioner may be unnecessary. I pick my hair out and put a mixture of coconut and baobab oil on my hair daily and that is it. I braid it every night and braid and roll it whenever those end tips need it.

Hope this helps.

HennaJoy

 

[iris]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
VALLEYGIRL said:
I dont know if you remember way back when I had a phone consultation with Mr John? One of the things that he suggested was for me to deep condition with Apoghee every week for a month. This was to be done in order to loosen up my curl pattern and to help my hair straighten easier.


[/ QUOTE ]

VALLEYGIRL Thank Goodness we have you on this board! You may be on to something! I know henna is a protein and if what Mr. John said holds any truth it could be the PROTEIN that is the key to this mystery!!! They say black hair doesn't grow in a straight pattern because it doesn't have sufficient protein or sulphur in the follicles to grow straight the way other races have. Also, I remember you saying that Stephanie Suthers who has 4b hair texture, her hair grows straight and she doesn't use any heat appliances to get it straight Her Hairbiotics Scalp Treatment is what I believe is making her hair come in straight with all the nutrients that are in it! Normally 4b hair grows UP and OUT, Ms. Suthers hair is growing DOWN AND STRAIGHT OR STRAIGHTER THAN IT NORMALLY WOULD WITHOUT THE NUTRIENTS!.

You also said she could comb all that hair and it wasn't breaking or anything....comb just ran straight through. Now I know it's because of all those nutrients in her formula! Someone recently posted a hair article saying Cysteine, which is an amino acid or protein, is the missing link in black hair or something like that. This is why black hair is naturally fragile, prone to breakage, etc. The Cysteine produces sulphur which in turn makes hair straighter, softer, stronger, etc.

OH MY GOODNESS NOW I'M ON A ROLL! MSM USERS REPORT HOW MUCH STRAIGHTER THEIR NEW GROWTH COMES IN! WELL MSM IS SULPHUR PLAIN AND SIMPLE. SO PROTEIN WHICH PRODUCES SULPHUR HELPS ALL HAIR TYPES TO COME IN STRAIGHTER, SMOOTHER, ETC.

I'm calling the hennalucent people Monday, but I'm gonna look for that article on this forum to be sure I know what I'm talking about. I'm glad you reported your visit to Stephanie Suthers because this theory of mine would sure explain why her hair grows downward, strong, and why she could run a comb through all that thick, long KNEE-LENGTH HAIR with no problems at all!

 

[HennaJoy]

Hi Armyqt,

I've got the perspective now...thanks. Your post gave me a chance to explain that I wasn't saying Hennalucent was not a good product if that is how my post came across.

I hope I answered the questions that you had.

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

Iris
thats true what you say about black hair and the lack of sulpher and also the MSM and people reporting straighter hair...I forgot about that.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Also, I remember you saying that Stephanie Suthers who has 4b hair texture, her hair grows straight and she doesn't use any heat appliances to get it straight Her Hairbiotics Scalp Treatment is what I believe is making her hair come in straight with all the nutrients that are in it! Normally 4b hair grows UP and OUT, Ms. Suthers hair is growing DOWN AND STRAIGHT OR STRAIGHTER THAN IT NORMALLY WOULD WITHOUT THE NUTRIENTS!.


[/ QUOTE ]

Let me correct myself...She doesnt use heat to straghten her hair b/c it takes too long to style it and salons charge her about 300 dollars so that why she doesnt straighten it. Her hair is not by any means straight. I think it is the weight of all her hair and her products which are natural and oils based add weight to it and weigh it down.
Her products do have protein in them. Soy protein is the main ingredient on the detangler oil I have in front of me.

When I used it I could comb my hair dry and it was a day old. When I washed it wasnt straighter but definitely earier to manage. I couldnt believe it!!!

I think me, you and Mr. John may be on to something and that protein may be the key to this mystery BUT if this is the case why do relaxers work by breaking down certain protein chains in the hair structure making hair straight immediately? Henna and protein conditioners works by adding protein to the hair shaft...making it straigher over time

I wish someone would just break it down for me ...HennaJoy? Are you still up?

Valleygirl

Hey doesnt the GPB have cystine in it?

 

[Armyqt]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
VALLEYGIRL said:
Hey doesnt the GPB have cystine in it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Valleygirl, it sure does. Here are the ingredients:

Aubrey's Essential Fatty Acid Base (which includes the Amino Acids Cysteine, Cystine &amp; Methione) is blended with the following: Lactalbumin (milk protein), Rosemary, Sage, Horsetail and Coltsfoot, (both are herbs high in Silicic Acid and Amino Acids), Nettle, Glyco-Protein (Glycogen, Polysaccachrides), Balsam Tolu, Vitamins A,B,C and E in Citrus seed ectract. All natural.

There sure is a lot of protein in this stuff. /images/graemlins/smile.gif hth

 

[iris]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I think me, you and Mr. John may be on to something and that protein may be the key to this mystery BUT if this is the case why do relaxers work by breaking down certain protein chains in the hair structure making hair straight immediately? Henna and protein conditioners works by adding protein to the hair shaft...making it straigher over time


[/ QUOTE ]

I can call Revlon or any company making a relaxer to answer that question. I feel the protein isn't lost, it's just reconfigurated a different way. Mind you the normal process of protein is to strenghten and add elasticity to the hair. Relaxers ARE INFAMOUS for adding no strength or elasticity to the hair.

So while the components to making relaxed hair straight is there, being that the protein molecule is reconfigured, the attribute of making hair strong and elastic which protein does naturally, is lost. Is this making any sense? Remember, nothing is ever "lost" it is just transformed into something else. Y'all I can't wait until Monday!

 

[LuvableLady]

Iris,

This is making a bunch of sense. I'm sitting back and enjoying this. I gave this thread a 5 star. Y'all on to something here. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[HennaJoy]

Hi LuvableLady,

One of the problems with getting henna into the U.S. these days is because the labeling is so inaccurate.

"Red henna" is a another name used to refer to 100% natural henna (lawsonia inermis).

However, 100% natural henna can't produce black. So a package of henna that is black and says only lawsonia inermis is mislabelled and misleading. There are a number of things that could be "black henna"
1. Traditionally, "black henna" was the name given to indigo and used to separate it from "red" henna. Another name you may see is "vesma" depending upon the country the powder is from. But neither is lawsonia inermis...or natural henna.
2. A herbal/henna product containing natural henna and an herb like indigo or some other is can produce a black hair coloring. They are safe and natural. But the label should indicate lawsonia inermis plus some other herb. If not, it is mislabelled and misrepresents what is contained in the package.
3. The most problematic, is powder with or without henna in it that contains a synthetic dye called PPD. It is also labelled "black henna" often. The clue to these types is that they often have some warning or disclaimer on the package also that says that the product may cause an allergic reaction and discontinue use if a rash or redness occurs.

1 &amp; 2 are safe to use...just not labelled correctly. 3 is the same as coloring your hair with a chemical dye and in fact contains the same PPD that is found in chemical hair products...with the same problems.

"Lyzitus spina christi"...Its the latin name for something that has nothing to do with henna. It could be amla...myrobalan or some other herb that is often sold as under the name of "neutral" henna. I am sure doing a search on it might bring it up under a name that you are more familiar with. But it isn't henna.

The "neutral henna"..."black henna"..."red henna" labels have a very long tradition of being used to refer to what was well known and accepted to be from different herbs in countries where men and women have used henna for centuries. People in those countries have clarity on the differences of the herbs. And typically, disclosure in labelling is also not as important in those countries. Here, we expect the ingredients on the label to be correct. Things haven't gotten to that point yet with these products that are imported. Customs is clamping down though. So maybe soon "black henna" will disappear and have to indicate indigo, henna with ? herb, or all the chemicals that go into the products with the PPD in them. And "neutral henna" will disappear and just be labelled amla, myrobalan or the assorted of other things being sold as "neutral henna." Right now though, when you see such labeling, know that you have to make the cultural leap and that you will have to figure out what is really in the package.

 

[iris]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
VALLEYGIRL said:
I think me, you and Mr. John may be on to something and that protein may be the key to this mystery BUT if this is the case why do relaxers work by breaking down certain protein chains in the hair structure making hair straight immediately? Henna and protein conditioners works by adding protein to the hair shaft...making it straigher over time


[/ QUOTE ]


Also, I learned this in science class. That energy or all matter (material and immaterial substances), are never destroyed, they just transform into something else. Water is the best example of this. H20=water. When you freeze water and it turns into ice, it becomes H202. And when you heat water, or ice and it turns from a solid(ice, H202) to a liquid(H20) to a gas, the hydrogen,and oxygen are still present but they function differently and are rearranged in every instance. Does this make sense? I think this is what happens to the protein molecule too. I have since left college but have kepted my books. I have to look at my science books again /images/graemlins/smile.gif Never knew it would come in handy here. Isn't this a trip!

Luvablelady I'm glad you are enjoying this thread. I should be /images/graemlins/sleeping.gif by now, but this topic has piqued my interest too!

 

[HennaJoy]

Hi CynamonKis,

These are the ways that a harvest hair test will still benefit you. It will let you know if your hair is sufficiently rid of the chemicals to use henna without any damage to your hair. Having chemically processed or dyed your hair in the past doesn't mean that you can't use henna or a henna product. You just have to test to see if you can. The chemical products are even so different from each other that henna is compatible with some and not with others. Overtime, however, you should be able to use henna on your hair. It is the harvest hair test that will tell you when it is time.

The harvest hair test will also let you know what color the henna is going to turn your hair that is not gray. That is also useful information. If your hair is dark brown or black, you won't see much more than reddish highlights in the sun. This will redden to more of a dark reddish brown or dark auburn over time.

Henna...natural 100% henna is going to turn your white hair red. So you could have two toned hair. The remedy to that is to then apply the herbal/henna in black or brown or dark brown. Whichever is the color result your want. So you can color your hair with henna. You just have to make sure your previously chemically treated/colored hair is ready to accept henna...And then know that you will have a two step process. You will repeat both steps when new growth comes in.

That the Hennalucent says that it doesn't cover the white is another good clue to how much henna is really in it. The coloring effect sounds more like those color rinses to me. Henna is going to color the white.

Hope this helps.

 

[LuvableLady]

Hennajoy,

Thanks so much for answering my question in such great detail, I really appreciate it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/clap.gif It makes sense because when I applied the neutral henna last week, the results were not bad but not as good as they should have been. Also, I didn’t let my mixture rest long enough and I accidentally mixed with a metal spoon. Those things coupled with it possibly not being 100% henna could have been a factor in my less the stellar results. /images/graemlins/ohwell.gif I will try the red (natural) henna next week since I know it is the real deal. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Go figure, the red was the least expensive at $2.98 per pound. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Thanks ladies, this is a wonderful thread with a lot of useful information.

 

[iris]

Valleygirl why does Ms. Suthers hair look straight on the in the middle photo where she is stretching out the length of her hair to show how long it is if she doesn't use any heating appliance? Also, you said she told you if you use heat frequently, your hair won't grow to its maximum potential. Then how would she explain Wanakee who had to use alot of heat due to her modeling assignments, growing her hair waistelength and also to the point where it was catching in her belt-buckles? I remember reading Wanakee's pamphlets and her saying this. I also believe Wanakee put that info on her website. Amethyst used to comment about this as well.

Hennalucent Straightening The Hair:

The hennalucent has straightened my hair with each use. I've used it on a weekly basis, so the more you use it, the straighter the hair becomes.

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

It does look straight in the picture. But in person her hair hangs and it is long but it definitly has texture.

Maybe our definitions of straight are varying. It is not flat iron/hot comb straight but it is wet straight. Does that make sense? Hanging straight but not bone straight.
When you think of hair not being straight are you thinking of a fro? or like short above shoulder length
nappy kinky hair? When kinky hair grows longer it starts to hang downward...
I wish the picture was clearer. a lot of people think she has dread locs from the picture. But it is just long kinky hair.

I am not sure of Wanakees exact regimine but I am sure she used a ton of heat on her hair like any woman in the entertainment industry has too.
One of the things Stepanie said to me was that she was bald 9 times...from coloring, perming and just abusing her hair.
I think thats why she turned to all natural products and then came up with her product line. She also said that not everyones hair can thrive with a relaxer in it. She said of the gals that have long relaxed hair, their hair is just stronger and can withstand the chemicals compared to someone with shorter relaxed hair.

I am guessing that since Wanakee's hair was also relaxed that her hair was just one of the people whos hair can stand up to the chemicals. Stephanies wasn't.

My old hair stylist in college had waist length relaxed hair that she blowdried weekly. I was NOT gonna let her do that to me!!!

I guess it all goes back to knowing how much our hair can and cant handle and doing what works best for your particular hair needs. The only downside is that it takes time and trial and error to find that out.

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Applying Henna

Hi Iris,

I remember that thread but not the specific post that I was reponding to. So I can't speak to the exact context of my comment. But this is what I remember and is relevant to your questions.

The thread and a number of others were dealing with symantics to some degree. What is "loosening"...what is "relaxing"...and had to do with some product someone had brought up the was stated to "relax" the hair. But did it "relax" the hair the way people think of a relaxer which straightens the hair...or did it "relax" the curl in the hair and just loosen the curl up but not make for straight hair. My comment used both "relax" and "loosen" to show I meant the loosening up of the curl so that there is less shrinkage...not that it straightens the hair like a chemical relaxer. The initial part of that conversation started with the word "relax" and therefore in someways necessitated its usage throughout.

So just operationalize the meaning of "relaxed" in that context to simply mean loosening of the curl. Shift the frame of reference from what we know a chemical relaxer does to the hair because this is not at all what I am talking about. A chemical relaxer does a lot more to your hair than just remove the curl. It actually kills the hair and is referred to by some beauticians as "dead hair."

Henna doesn't have that effect. Henna simply loosens the curl. Over time it continues to loosen the curl. But I have never experienced it to loosen hair to the point that it becomes totally without curl and limp. And that is not what the statement was intended to imply. It hasn't done that to mine. But having said that, I need to say that there are some hair textures/types that when the curl loosens just might go more limp.

Example: There is a link that was posted to an indigo and henna hair example. The loosening of her hair created more defined curl pattern like ringlets and made her hair more limp so that it hangs down rather than stands up as it did prehenna/indigo. Indigo didn't do it. It was the henna. I can say this because I know who she is.

That is the effect it had on her hair. Two different hair types. Henna affecting the hair the same by loosening up the curl and detangling. Her hair ringlets and hanging...my hair in an 'afro sticking up as it should. Henna doesn't change the nature of the hair. I described my hair in a post above. The back of my hair goes in a tight coil. Henna has helped loosen that. The front of my hair grows in with a curl at the root and then grows straight. Not straight and hanging...but straight and standing straight up and out. It defies gravity... /images/graemlins/laugh.gif There is not curl there in the front, on top and sides for henna to loosen. Henna does not make my hair limp and flatten it. The natural nature of my hair is not to lay down flat. If we use my hair in the front, top and sides of my head as an example, it indicates that hair can be straight and without curl and not lay or hang down. And loosening and relaxing the curl does not necessarily mean that the hair goes flat and hangs down.

But one thing that should be clear is that henna is not and should not be thought of as a product used to straighten and relax the hair like a perm. Think of your hair behaving as it does now with the curl/kink loosened...detangled...softer...stronger.

Hope that helps.

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

Re: Applying Henna

HennaJoy!!!

WOW!!! Thats all I can say right now.

You are so very detailed and throurogh with your explanations.

You really know your stuff! I, as well as many others, am very glad you are here at LHCF!!!

Thank you for the wealth of info on henna you have provided and for taking the time to answer all the questions.

Valleygirl

Your screen name should be "Henna Doctor!!!" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just wait 'till everyone wakes up and logs on tommorow/today and sees all this!!!

 

[HennaJoy]

Hi Valleygirl,

I think that "straighter" hair needs to defined by each person who experienced the change in their hair that way. Different people could be meaning entirely different things. Because after that we want to know how straight and in relationship to what. If they are meaning the curl in the hair loosens up after henna treatment than it was prior to henna treatment, then they mean the same thing that I do. If people are talking about just using henna on their hair, then henna has the effect of loosening the curl but will not straighten the hair like a perm, hot comb or such. Sometimes what is being attributed to henna may well be the effect of some of the other things that are being used. To know what the henna does and only the henna does would necessitate only henna being used. The other things added will cloud the issue and make it hard to determine exactly what is having what effect on the hair.

Repeat applications of henna over time keeps the curl loose and that is one of the benefits that connected to what is said about henna having a detangling effect as well. But this should not be viewed as a sloooooow way to get the hair to act like permed hair. Because that is not what is going to happen.

I don't see henna changing the texture of hair. It strenghtens, loosens the curl, detangles, will color, softens etc., but I wouldn't define those as changing the texture of the hair.

Henna "relaxes" the curl..."loosens" the curl...but I wouldn't say that henna straightens and relaxes the hair. Not the way that "straightening and relaxing" the hair is typically thought to mean.

Maybe some of this will help. Henna does not penetrate the hair. Henna coats the hair and provides a translucent color to each strand of the hair. Henna restores damaged hair by sort of filling in and binding...for want of a better term...the sort of scales on the hair that weaken the hair and cause tangling and breakage. In the process of doing that...it appears to also loosen the natural curl that is in the strand of the hair. Exactly how these two things are connected...I don't have the answer. But the outcome is that the hair is stronger with a curl that is more loose.

There are ofcourse other products that have similar effects on the hair. Knowing the commonality between those products and henna will help in explaining and understanding exactly what is at work here.

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Applying Henna

"Henna Doctor...that is funny... /images/graemlins/laugh.gif You know we just learn everything we can about what we love. I just got a chance to catch up on reading the other posts about the effect of protein on the hair and think that is a good course to pursue.

The other thing that needs to be kept in mind about henna and any other product we use on our hair and the outcome is that the final result often has a lot to do with the individual system of the person. Just like our skin can indicate what is going on in the individual system, so can our hair.

Henna used for body art teaches you a lot about just how dependent the outcome of henna is upon the state of the individual system. For henna stains on skin, you can rely on these things: If you are stressed, you get poor henna stains. Get sick...henna stains are wimpy and demise is quick. Have a hot fever and your henna stains are the best you ever had. Have certain medications in your system, the stain results can be better than ever, stain in spots, wimpy or barely at all.

The hair and skin are of course different in lots of ways. But people have reported using the same henna powder and obtaining different results on their hair that they can attribute to the status of their health...their individual systems...at a given time.

Perhaps this is what I like the most about henna. It interacts in a rather intimate way with the individual. Its results are dependent upon what you bring to the table. So while there are large areas of commonality and shared experiences with its use...there is also a part of the experience that is unique and not necessarily generalizable across people. It is your own. Isn't that neat... /images/graemlins/smile.gif