No such thing as protein overload?

[Healthb4Length]

Possibly. It could be a potato-pota(h)to debate. All I can speak for is myself and myself is not saying there is no such thing as a protein overload. I'm saying that the default answer to every single hair problem can't possibly be protein overload. Which is what I see alot of the various hairboards across the net. It's like protein is Agent Smith and moisture is Neo up in this mug. I'm just sayin...

See I'm so glad you said this right here. It seems like every other day "protein" is the enemy. It's like we go on these bandwagons for awhile and then it's on to something new. I'm not gonna front I fell for these bandwagons too but now that I've re-educated myself I know what works for me. A few years ago we were anti-silicone(s), then "heat was the debil" now it seems like protein is getting it. The fact is we have to find what works for our individual hair type and need and not jump on every bandwagon because it can seriously derail all of your progress. My hair loves protein and has not seem to have suffered from it, I've been using it weekly and my hair is striving.

 

[Neith]

Yes, they are stupid if they continue using a heavy protein product every week even after they see that their hair doesn't need it anymore. That is stupid.

Okay... I get where you are coming from but...

We are just going to have to disagree there. I mean... several people came in this thread and said that they have had protein overload. I don't think they are all stupid :gulp:

Aphogee 2 step contains animal protein and that type of protein is not found in your weaker protein treatments. Animal protein is the type of protein that will coat and harden the hair which is why it can't be used frequently. But I believe the focus on this discussion is more in regards to our everyday products that contain protein. I think everyone can agree that it would not be smart to use Aphogee 2 Step more frequently than required.

"However, a significant portion of the protein deposited on human hair by hair care
products is adsorbed on the hair by non-covalent forces. These forces are either ionic
or hydrophobic in nature. Adsorbed protein can be washed off"
Source: http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=...n+proteins+hair&d=VG3BcQ-YSBiC&icp=1&.intl=us

I thought the point of the thread was to discuss whether or not protein overload exists... erplexed

It does. I think everyone agrees with that. That was my only point.

If you use too much protein, then your hair will suffer. This point will be different for everyone, but anyone can overdo it. Just like anyone can overdo moisture.

That's all I was trying to say, lol.

Now, the discussion has turned to, "well it won't happen if you keep your moisture up"

I agree with that too... up to a point. There will come a point that moisture is not going to be an instant fix for it... if you really overdo it.

The thing is, for some people, even one or two extra protein treatments will put them over the edge... which is why I don't think people who overuse protein are necessarily dumb or not knowledgeable about hair care. It happens.

 

[gymfreak336]

Okay... I get where you are coming from but...

We are just going to have to disagree there. I mean... several people came in this thread and said that they have had protein overload. I don't think they are all stupid :gulp:




I thought the point of the thread was to discuss whether or not protein overload exists... erplexed

It does. I think everyone agrees with that. That was my only point.

If you use too much protein, then your hair will suffer. This point will be different for everyone, but anyone can overdo it. Just like anyone can overdo moisture.

That's all I was trying to say, lol.

Now, the discussion has turned to, "well it won't happen if you keep your moisture up"

I agree with that too... up to a point. There will come a point that moisture is not going to be an instant fix for it... if you really overdo it.

The thing is, for some people, even one or two extra protein treatments will put them over the edge... which is why I don't think people who overuse protein are necessarily dumb or not knowledgeable about hair care. It happens.

No one said everyone was dumb. But sometimes we all do stupid stuff. I used to relax, color and flat iron all in the same day...Stupid.

Everyone that has experienced protein overload isn't dumb but if you are using aphogee every week then yeah, that falls in the stupid category.

 

[Neith]

No one said everyone was dumb. But sometimes we all do stupid stuff. I used to relax, color and flat iron all in the same day...Stupid.

Everyone that has experienced protein overload isn't dumb but if you are using aphogee every week then yeah, that falls in the stupid category.

Alright... as long as it's known that we all do dumb things from time to time. Not always because we're actually stupid or don't know anything about hair care

What if someone planned to use DRC every week for a month and got protein overload? Their hair could be damaged and they are trying to fix it, but maybe their hair doesn't like much protein. They do one treatment too many, and oops. Seems perfectly reasonable to me, things like that can happen.

 

[Your Cheeziness]

Okay... I get where you are coming from but...

We are just going to have to disagree there. I mean... several people came in this thread and said that they have had protein overload. I don't think they are all stupid :gulp:




I thought the point of the thread was to discuss whether or not protein overload exists... erplexed

It does. I think everyone agrees with that. That was my only point.

If you use too much protein, then your hair will suffer. This point will be different for everyone, but anyone can overdo it. Just like anyone can overdo moisture.

That's all I was trying to say, lol.

Now, the discussion has turned to, "well it won't happen if you keep your moisture up"

I agree with that too... up to a point. There will come a point that moisture is not going to be an instant fix for it... if you really overdo it.

The thing is, for some people, even one or two extra protein treatments will put them over the edge... which is why I don't think people who overuse protein are necessarily dumb or not knowledgeable about hair care. It happens.

You missed what I said, Aphogee 2 Step treatment which instructs to only use every 6 weeks. And not following those particular instructions for such an intense treatment would not be smart. I was speaking hypothetically, not in response to any persons experience. You asked a question previously about certain proteins attaching to the hair shaft, so I thought I was helping by trying to find some info for everyone to reference.

I never said anyone who says they've experienced protein overload is dumb, I was specifically talking about this treatment in response to your earlier question.

 

[Neith]

You missed what I said, Aphogee 2 Step treatment which instructs to only use every 6 weeks. And not following those particular instructions for such an intense treatment would not be smart. I was speaking hypothetically, not in response to any persons experience. You asked a question previously about certain proteins attaching to the hair shaft, so I thought I was helping by trying to find some info for everyone to reference.

I never said anyone who says they've experienced protein overload is dumb, I was specifically talking about this treatment in response to your earlier question.

I never said that you called anyone dumb... I know you didn't. I mean... I didn't say that, did I? *runs to reread my post* lol

I may have talked about "dumbness", but I didn't imply that you said anything about it.

I didn't say anything about the info you posted, don't have a problem with it. I was just using the aphogee as an example also. I also used other conditioners as examples in later postings.

You stated that you thought that the discussion was more geared to whether you get protein overload with everyday products, I stated that I thought the discussion was about whether or not protein overload exists.

 

[Your Cheeziness]

I never said that you called anyone dumb... I know you didn't. I mean... I didn't say that, did I? *runs to reread my post* lol

I may have talked about "dumbness", but I didn't imply that you said anything about it.

I didn't say anything about the info you posted, don't have a problem with it. I was just using the aphogee as an example also. I also used other conditioners as examples in later postings.

You stated that you thought that the discussion was more geared to whether you get protein overload with everyday products, I stated that I thought the discussion was about whether or not protein overload exists.

lol Happy Inauguration Day ...unsubscribing

 

[gymfreak336]

Alright... as long as it's known that we all do dumb things from time to time. Not always because we're actually stupid or don't know anything about hair care

What if someone planned to use DRC every week for a month and got protein overload? Their hair could be damaged and they are trying to fix it, but maybe their hair doesn't like much protein. They do one treatment too many, and oops. Seems perfectly reasonable to me, things like that can happen.

Thats the thing. You don't plan out your conditioning especially with products you are not familar with. You do it as needed on a week by week basis. You get in the shower wet your hair and say "Self, what does my hair need this week". Then if you do use the DRC, you follow with with a moisturizing conditioner for 10-15 minutes as it directs you to do. Then, next week, you analyze again. You don't hap hazardly drench your hair in DRC, hang around the house with in it in for an hour, and then complain about protein overload.

 

[butterfly_wings]

It's not a popular opinion, but I can agree with it. I've said this from the beginning and will stand by it. I think protein has a bad reputation and alot of us automatically default to think "protein overload".

Dry hair doesn't mean protein overload, it means you need to up your moisture. There's a difference. Breaking hair doesn't automatically mean protein overload, it can mean too much manipulation, weak damaged fraile hair that NEEDS a protein treatment.

I like to think hair as a Jenga stack. Ya'll remember that game. Each time we relax or abuse direct heat, we take away important blocks out of the Jenga stack and eventually that mug will crumble (read: breakage). It must be rebuilt with protein.

There is a thread asking us to list the product that turned our hair around. Most, if not all of the replies I saw reference a protein product of some type. As the hair becomes healthier, we may not need it as often, but occasionally we, as relaxed heads, need it. I can't speak for naturals.

What we must educate ourselves on is the different types of proteins and their role for our hair. Some proteins attract moisture and give shine, others deeply penetrate and rebuild. It's important to remember that whenever we use them, our moisture products, must compensate for them and we'll be fine.

*slowly backs out of the room and waits for eruption of disagreement*

Judging by the shine on your hair in your siggy I won't be questioning you!

 

[Neith]

lol Happy Inauguration Day ...unsubscribing

Okay... Happy Inauguration Day!

Thats the thing. You don't plan out your conditioning especially with products you are not familar with. You do it as needed on a week by week basis. You get in the shower wet your hair and say "Self, what does my hair need this week". Then if you do use the DRC, you follow with with a moisturizing conditioner for 10-15 minutes as it directs you to do. Then, next week, you analyze again. You don't hap hazardly drench your hair in DRC, hang around the house with in it in for an hour, and then complain about protein overload.

Of course that's totally the right way to go about it That's the way I have gone about it, but anyone can make a dumb mistake. We're all human. You and me both have messed up our hair probably more than once for each of us, lol.

 

[Irresistible]

What Neith said is true

that moisture will not always be some 'instant' remedy to protein overload, I suffered the MOTHA of all protein overloads and it went on for months

now there always have been and always will be a whole ton of ladies that are not stupid, but instead have no idea what type of protein does what, or where it should be on an ingredient list to understand what its strength is in that conditioner, or which ones are moisturizing and which ones are not, etc.

They will leave products in, they will feel one product helped them and was great and do the same thing again and that next time might be too much, or the time after that, they will leave things in not knowing the risks, they will not even comprehend that their hair is on the brink of overload and they will take that very next step and visit protein overload hell.

not everyone researches hairboards, and thank God not everyone will listen to Cathy Howse-geesh , or even know who she is for that matter

not everyone is a hair guru, or hair product ingredient geek

its really easy to just slip on over to the other side, with just one more use of something or leaving it in , or not doing enough of something else and you cant see it coming

 

[chebaby]

all i can really say is that i have been doing protein treatments every week with no problems. i just make sure i follow with a moisturizing deep conditioner and i balance my leave in conditioners. this is the healthiest my hair has been since i bleached it to death.

 

[betty-boo]

I think I get what your are asking. And yeah, there is a trial and error part of it that a lot of us go through. I certainly did and occasionally still do! But the bottom line is that, for me, and I suspect a lot of others, it doesn't really have to be that difficult/perplexing/science-project-like. I just finally discovered that I was doing too much and using too many products and that was the biggest problem more so than what I was using. I'm obviously just speaking from personal experience. I mean, I still don't understand the whole "protein-moisture balance" thing. It seems like once I stopped trying to figure out all of that stuff, my hair stopped caring about it too. *shrug*

Btw, I haven't found "the perfect conditioner" and I don't use any other kinds of moisturizers anymore. I have just found ones that get the basic job done. I have, however, changed my mind about what I expect from conditioners, in general. They aren't going to transform my hair into something it isn't...not permanently, anyway...no matter how long I leave it on or what the bottle says. My hair is probably always going to have a tendency to be dry and tangly. A conditioner helps me deal with those issues by, for instance, giving slip when I detangle and/or giving moisture to my ends until I wash again. I don't expect more from them.

The only thing I use that seems to have a long lasting effect on my hair is henna. But again, YMMV.

Thanks Cichelle! Sigh. I know I have to stop doing so many things to my hair and stop buying so many products too. I love the way you described how you see conditioners! I suppose there is no real perfect one at all - so my pjism isn't really helping. Thanks again
xxx

ETA: This is also encouraging, because it shows that everyone goes through this trial and error, learning and reading up stage. I'm not on my own! I think I'm coming round bit by bit now. Thanks Cichelle

 

[Patricia]

I didn't know some people had become so afraid of protein.

UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT

I don't believe much of the stuff I read about products anymore.

Hair care seems to have gotten so complicated. You have to examine your moisturizers and make sure this is balanced with that and which protein is this and which oil is that, etc. It's kind of crazy, IMO. And I suspect...unnecessary.

I got a way from all that and just do what works for my hair. I'm not going to say there is no such thing as protein overload because some people experience it, or at least what they think is protein overload. At one point in my journey I gave up protein completely and my hair improved dramatically. However, a couple of years later, I realize the problem was more likely that I was just using too many and too much product of any kind.

Personally, I've found that my hair needs a lot less maintaining and scientific study than I once thought.

But everyone really has to do what works for them and remember that it won't work for everyone. General statements about hair almost never stand up for all individuals.

Just saying.

Carry on.

I thought about this last night. This is a great response. I think I needed to hear this. Thank you for this

 

[betty-boo]

What Neith said is true

that moisture will not always be some 'instant' remedy to protein overload, I suffered the MOTHA of all protein overloads and it went on for months

now there always have been and always will be a whole ton of ladies that are not stupid, but instead have no idea what type of protein does what, or where it should be on an ingredient list to understand what its strength is in that conditioner, or which ones are moisturizing and which ones are not, etc.

They will leave products in, they will feel one product helped them and was great and do the same thing again and that next time might be too much, or the time after that, they will leave things in not knowing the risks, they will not even comprehend that their hair is on the brink of overload and they will take that very next step and visit protein overload hell.

not everyone researches hairboards, and thank God not everyone will listen to Cathy Howse-geesh , or even know who she is for that matter

not everyone is a hair guru, or hair product ingredient geek

its really easy to just slip on over to the other side, with just one more use of something or leaving it in , or not doing enough of something else and you cant see it coming

Hmmm. I don't think that Gym was calling anyone here stupid, she was just saying that we sometimes do stupid things. To err is human. This wasn't really the main point of her argument - that people are stupid.
She was simply saying that when we use products, we need to make sure to read the instructions - nothing hard about that - and that also, if we're using a hardcore protein everyday - we will run into problems.

She is recommending that we become familiar with our products, learn what works for us and start listening to our hair needs at each wash.
I agree with what she was saying and there is a lot of wisdom in it - especially for me, who visits and researches hairboards, techniques and products so I can improve the condition of my hair, because that's what interests me and is something I'd like to achieve for myself.

Really Neith was only trying to prove that protein overload exists if you're using a hardcore protein more regularly than recommended - but they both definitely agree that this isn't what should be done.

Having just overmoisturised my hair, I have to look at this in detail, so I don't visit this setback again

 

[HoneyDew]

I don't really care if it exist or not.

All I know is that too much protein can make my hair feel brittle and hard. My hair is normally quite soft and takes moisture well.

I have even had protein treatments that took several moisturizing deep conditioning sessions to get back in order.

Protein overload or not - what ever you want to call it - it can be too much for my hair so I watch it. My hair loves protein, but all it takes is that one that went too far.

And I am not too hip to taking all of Cathy Howse's advice.

 

[Irresistible]

then that person is stupid and they might not need to be doing their own hair. Hair won't become brittle if it is balanced just as hair won't become mushy if it is balanced. If you know where your balance is and know how to maintain it, you won't go too far in either direction.

Yes, they are stupid if they continue using a heavy protein product every week even after they see that their hair doesn't need it anymore. That is stupid.

Hmmm. I don't think that Gym was calling anyone here stupid, she was just saying that we sometimes do stupid things. To err is human. This wasn't really the main point of her argument - that people are stupid.
She was simply saying that when we use products, we need to make sure to read the instructions - nothing hard about that - and that also, if we're using a hardcore protein everyday - we will run into problems.

She is recommending that we become familiar with our products, learn what works for us and start listening to our hair needs at each wash.
I agree with what she was saying and there is a lot of wisdom in it - especially for me, who visits and researches hairboards, techniques and products so I can improve the condition of my hair, because that's what interests me and is something I'd like to achieve for myself.

Really Neith was only trying to prove that protein overload exists if you're using a hardcore protein more regularly than recommended - but they both definitely agree that this isn't what should be done.

Having just overmoisturised my hair, I have to look at this in detail, so I don't visit this setback again

Just going by HER own words above. I understood Neith's point all along

 

[gymfreak336]

Just going by HER own words above. I understood Neith's point all along

If you are going to quote me, get them all........

No one said everyone was dumb. But sometimes we all do stupid stuff. I used to relax, color and flat iron all in the same day...Stupid.

Everyone that has experienced protein overload isn't dumb but if you are using aphogee every week then yeah, that falls in the stupid category.

Boy oh boy selective reading at its best Ladies and Gents

 

[Irresistible]

I'm just gonna say this

there are a whole lot of ladies that are messing around with heavy proteins on here every single day or every single week as we speak

gymfreak, I didnt selectively quote you, I quoted exactly what you said, not the , explantion after the fact part

what difference does it make if you say 'they are stupid' but then say 'nobody is saying everyone is 'dumb'

I must have missed something

but a few posts back I said what I believed to be true about protein overload

And that was my contribution to this thread about the subject and the quotes were just a response to someone who posted directly to me, since they quoted me

no point in us going nowhere fast.........again

dumb or stupid , or by ignorance or mistake, or lack of informatin or whatever, protein overload happens and is real, and many of us are saying it happened to us right in this thread

thats the only real point

that IT IS REAL

 

[betty-boo]

I'm just gonna say this

there are a whole lot of ladies that are messing around with heavy proteins on here every single day or every single week as we speak

gymfreak, I didnt selectively quote you, I quoted exactly what you said, not the , explantion after the fact part

what difference does it make if you say 'they are stupid' but then say 'nobody is saying everyone is 'dumb'

I must have missed something

but a few posts back I said what I believed to be true about protein overload

And that was my contribution to this thread about the subject and the quotes were just a response to someone who posted directly to me, since they quoted me

no point in us going nowhere fast.........again

dumb or stupid , or by ignorance or mistake, or lack of informatin or whatever, protein overload happens and is real, and many of us are saying it happened to us right in this thread

thats the only real point

that IT IS REAL

Yes! The point that you have made is definitely valid, because that's what you have experienced. See? It is good when we can clarify our points when we are misunderstood. That is the great thing about this open and friendly forum. That way we can all learn!

 

[Loves Harmony]

Great info you guys

 

[gymfreak336]

I'm just gonna say this

there are a whole lot of ladies that are messing around with heavy proteins on here every single day or every single week as we speak

gymfreak, I didnt selectively quote you, I quoted exactly what you said, not the , explantion after the fact part

what difference does it make if you say 'they are stupid' but then say 'nobody is saying everyone is 'dumb'

I must have missed something

but a few posts back I said what I believed to be true about protein overload

And that was my contribution to this thread about the subject and the quotes were just a response to someone who posted directly to me, since they quoted me

no point in us going nowhere fast.........again

dumb or stupid , or by ignorance or mistake, or lack of informatin or whatever, protein overload happens and is real, and many of us are saying it happened to us right in this thread

thats the only real point

that IT IS REAL

You didn't selectively quote me but you quoted what I said Yeah......

Like I said, if you want to quote me about an issue, quote everything I said in regards to it. It wasn't an after the fact comment, I posted that before your post so I don't understand how you missed it........ *shrugs*

 

[Irresistible]

You didn't selectively quote me but you quoted what I said Yeah......

Like I said, if you want to quote me about an issue, quote everything I said in regards to it. It wasn't an after the fact comment, I posted that before your post so I don't understand how you missed it........ *shrugs*

I was just pointing out that you did specifically say that they were/ would be stupid, when someone said thats not what you said, thats all, you said it, yes you said after that, that nobody is saying people are dumb, after you said they are stupid and I explained other ways it could happen other than being stupid

can we just drop this now?

I think we all made our points, no harm no foul......really

I dont really even care , seriously

I get where you were trying to come from, I was just coming from another point of how it could happen as well, nothing more nothing less

lets just kiss and make up or something

cause it aint all that to me.......really

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Some proteins attract moisture and give shine, others deeply penetrate and rebuild. It's important to remember that whenever we use them, our moisture products, must compensate for them and we'll be fine.

Which ones attract moisture and which ones rebuild structure? Can you indicate what henna and vegetable proteins do?

 

[Arewa Girl]

I do believe there is such a thing as protein overload, just as there is such a thing as moisture overload. It's all about balance, finding the right balance for you and your hair. IMHO

 

[Muse]

Which ones attract moisture and which ones rebuild structure? Can you indicate what henna and vegetable proteins do?

I believe the wheat and silk proteins attract and help retain moisture as well as strengthen and Keratin and the others build.

 

[Healthb4Length]

I do believe there is protein overload. Some people can handle more proteins while others thrive on moisture. My hair LOVES protein, it works for me. If someone used a aphogee like treatment on a weekly basis then the results would be dire. It specifically states not to use it or other products like it on a weekly basis but rather a 6 weeks basis. I just think protein has been getting a bad rep lately and the point of posts like this is to clarify some miss information about protein usage.

 

[gymfreak336]

Which ones attract moisture and which ones rebuild structure? Can you indicate what henna and vegetable proteins do?

All proteins can provide some level of moisture. Some just do it more than others because in their molecular structure and amino acid profile, they have more hydrophilic sites therefore having the ability to form hydrogen bonds with water.

For example, 35% of collagen protein is composed of glycine. Glycine has a hydroxyl group attached to the end of the C-terminus end of the amino acid change. Hydroxyl groups are hydrophilic centers so the glycine can "Carry" so to speak more water molecules (ie hydration) into the hair strand. This goes back to something I brought up earlier. If you hydrolyze protein molecules small enough to enter the hair strand, you can bring moisture into the hair while strengthening it.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

All proteins can provide some level of moisture. Some just do it more than others because in their molecular structure and amino acid profile, they have more hydrophilic sites therefore having the ability to form hydrogen bonds with water.

For example, 35% of collagen protein is composed of glycine. Glycine has a hydroxyl group attached to the end of the C-terminus end of the amino acid change. Hydroxyl groups are hydrophilic centers so the glycine can "Carry" so to speak more water molecules (ie hydration) into the hair strand. This goes back to something I brought up earlier. If you hydrolyze protein molecules small enough to enter the hair strand, you can bring moisture into the hair while strengthening it.

Thank you God for GymFreak!!!!

 

[naturalgurl]

I believe there is a such thing as protein overload. I've heard too many horror stories of people over using protein with breakage and fall out. I use protein but mild ones. Mostly I use things with protein "qualities" if there is a such thing. For instance, I use coconut milk, it's mild. I use egg whites and yogurt and they're mild. I find that if you use proteins that your stomach can break down, you can't go wrong but that's just MY OPINION. I use hydrolyzed wheat protein in my moisturizing spray because it's mild as in it's hydrolyzed which means "waterfied" in my opinion. But don't go by me, I just go by what my hair "tells"me.