Mr. Swagger vs. Mr. Nice Guy

[SleekandBouncy]

^^ Nayeli,
That's a good point too and excellent question.
Often times I find virtuous traits are defined in these vague absolutes (yes, that sounds contradictory, I know). I'm always cautious of men who can't define what makes them "nice guys" outside of cliches or worse can't describe it at all.

And you're right many a self proclaimed nice guys will play that position stringing along various women until they feel like settling down or use the nice persona as a cover to be a panty raider. Now if those nice guys can get romantic mileage being nice guys then what is stopping the ones complaining?

Another factor is that sometimes it's not about women not liking "nice guys", but it's that *specific* men might be overlooking the fact that they aren't taking the initiative with women, aren't showing clear interest, don't come across as being ambitious. There are a myriad of factors to consider before ppl fall back on cliches like nice guy finishes last.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

This thread made me have this convo with my bf again and he's just not believing y'all. It's not that he thinks nice guys go without, assuming they are not really lacking in some basic area. It's that he sees what he thinks of as good quality women with what he sees as low quality men. That those men have almost nothing going for them except swagger. They ain't got no job, engaging in shady activities, won't really wine and dine a girl, etc. He thinks it's a widespread phenomenon in the black community, though it does exists in others. The bad boy phenomenon, the glorification of pimp/ho culture. And he thinks it's permeated beyond "hood" black people. That even middle class sisters chase after this. He frequently references Beyonce singing "Soldier" and its lyrics.

Now he's making me watch Diary of a Tired Black Man.

Haha... I actually think your bf has a good point! I see a lot of women w/some dogged out men, but they are with him because he has swagger, or they are so head over heels "in love" with this guy...but they can do SOOO much better. I've fallen hard for a guy who didn't treat me the way that a good man SHOULD treat a woman, but I was too young, naive, and INTO him to reject the crumbs he was feeding me. I look back on those days and just laugh to myself: "what on EARTH was I thinking???"

Let's just say...I have long-since seen the light! Thank goodness!

I think we are underestimating a lot of these nice guys too. Many a nice guy KNOWS that he's "nice," KNOWS that there is a good cross-section of intelligent, ambitious and loyal women who want a nice guy and will spin these very women in circles, while still playing the role of the unassuming nice guy.

Of course that begs the question what does "nice" really mean but that's for another time lol.

Isn't THAT the truth!!! lol!

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

And you're right many a self proclaimed nice guys will play that position stringing along various women until they feel like settling down or use the nice persona as a cover to be a panty raider. Now if those nice guys can get romantic mileage being nice guys then what is stopping the ones complaining?

YES YES YES!! I've gotten burned by a "nice guy" like this before. Now I see he was nothing more than a player in sheep's clothing. Turns out, when I really got to know him and experienced the way he treated me, and saw the way he treated some other women, I came to realize that he REALLY wasn't that much of a "nice guy" at ALL!

 

[Flavia]

Oh, how I love this post...

Count me as another woman who's never seen the appeal in swagger. Now, yes, I LOVE a confident man, but I feel confidence can be displayed in so many ways... and nerds can have confidence.

To me, a man like Bill Gates is probably the most confident thing on planet Earth and I think he rates a zero on the swagger meter. But something about a man who decided when he was a teenager that he was going to make his mark in a field that didn't exist (computer programming) and create a company that he thought would revolutionize the world... damn, can I get your number?

IMPORTANT NOTE: No, I am not attracted to Bill Gates whatsoever ... but the story of his success is something that is very appealing to me, and those are the kinds of qualities that I look for in a man.

Now sure, I don't want a man who walks around with his head hung low and sulks and talks about how he's not good at anything. Dealt with that before, and hey, you can look like Idris but if all you talk about is how worthless you are, you might as well look like Bill Gates, okay? And then I'll take Bill because at least he internally knows he's got it going on!

I want the smart, confident man who can walk into a room and not necessarily have anyone checking him out... but he goes about his business and gets **** done because he knows inside that he is all that and more.

Corny is the dude telling really horrible jokes and trying to be a comedian all the time because he's not comfortable with himself.

IA. It's evident that swag is all relative. I have never been attracted to arrogance and I do agree with Mwedzis bf that for many men in our community, arrogance and less than desired attributes are the main component of swagger. It doesn't have to be glaring to the point where all men want to be him and all women want him. Confident, laid back, "a nice guy", driven, respect for others to me can also be aspects of swag.

 

[hopeful]

I think swagger may mean something different to all of us? To me it's a man with confidence (not arrogance), well-dressed (not pimped out), charming (knows how to hold a nice conversation, opens doors, sends flowers, etc.), and is admired by others because he is a leader who sets himself apart from the pack. I have never found gangsta acting playa types attractive at all. To me Will Smith and President Obama have swagger.

 

[Bunny77]

I think swagger may mean something different to all of us? To me it's a man with confidence (not arrogance), well-dressed (not pimped out), charming (knows how to hold a nice conversation, opens doors, sends flowers, etc.), and is admired by others because he is a leader who sets himself apart from the pack. I have never found gangsta acting playa types attractive at all. To me Will Smith and President Obama have swagger.

I think you have a point there!

It seems that when I hear 20-somethings talking about "swagger," they mean a touch of cockiness/arrogance. In fact, when I was doing online dating, I saw so many profiles from very nice-looking and educated black men in which they said that they were a bit "cocky" or "arrogant."

I was wondering, "Uh, when did those become good qualities?"

But Will Smith and Barack Obama? Yes, I like their style! Funny though, they aren't the types that came to my mind when the word "swagger" was mentioned!

(And I was attracted to Obama back in 1999 when I first heard about him... I was like, "How do I meet HIM?" Then I found out he was married. Little did I know who he would become...)

 

[ClassicBeauty]

I think there's a little truth to what they said. I know that DH has no "swagger" at all. He's not the type of guy I thought I would end up with, but I'm so glad I grew up and prioritized my life. I always thought I would marry an HBCU grad guy. While I am totally stereotyping here, I went to an HBCU, and most of the guys I went to school with were very smart and professional but they had just a hint of urban flare. I dated a guy from college for almost 5 years, and after giving so much of my life to him, I decided to re-prioritize my list and focus on the really important things.

If I would have met DH in college, I would not have given him a chance. Fortunately I met him in my last year of law school, and he was just what I wanted!

That's why I totally agree with that thread about timing. DH was probably considered lame most of his life by most BW. I too think he's a little lame, but so am I. We fit really well together. He's extremely confident, but he is the polar opposite of urban. I'm sure he was turned down by many BW in the past, and if he lived anywhere else, he would have probably seriously dated WW. He did date a couple in college, but he always knew he would marry a BW.

 

[ThickHair]

I don't like stereotypical swagger. Swagger to me is smart, gentlemanly, has his mind right and has his ish together, all around. I like what most people call nerds. Fine with me, and more nerds for me. Call them what you like.

 

[Helpmeblongagain]

I was at an event last week about male-female relationships in the black community and one of the (few) men in attendance made a great point about why he thinks black men date/marry interracially. Basically he said that many of the "good black men" (i.e., men who have been to school, go to church, respect their mama, serve their communities, etc.) that we educated sisters say we want to date and marry have been overlooked by black women who dismiss them as "corny" for lacking that certain "swagger" that we expect our men to have . . . .

Now admittedly I do think there is some truth to that. One of my best friend's little brother (well, he's 26 years old - lol) is a PhD student in Engineering, loves his mama, goes to church regularly, etc. yet he has been passed over by girls time and time again because he is "too nice." I shake my head at the situation because he is really a gem - I don't feel too bad for him though because I know that some awesome girl will snatch him up once she comse to her senses.

What are your thoughts on this?

what's his info?

He wont get nuthin but appreciation over here! lol

BTW...Now that Im trying 2 date seriously...I prefer the "nice guy"...that swag is a panty dropper tho...lol