More Black Women Consider 'Dating Out' (article)

You sound like my father. Born and raised in Atlanta. Marched as a young man with MLK and was very active in the Civil Rights Movement (sit-ins, boycotts, etc.). But he became disillusioned after the 60s. We talk a lot. (YES, HE'S A WONDERFUL BLACK MAN AND I AM SO BLESSED TO HAVE HIM AS A DAD!!! :clapping:.) He always said that the worst thing for the black man was integration. When we were segregated as least we looked out for one another. We had a strong community of doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. They were just as good...even better...than the white communities professionals. That social network was intact. But when integration came along, the black community adopted this "looking out for me" attitude. No other ethnic group has attained status and success, leaving the lesser of their communities behind. The Jews come to my mind. The black community is the ONLY ethnic minority that--when a few made it big--left the rest of the community behind. It's so sad. And according to my father, integration did more damage than it did good.:nono::wallbash:




Brown V. Blacks

You hear the argument in different contexts, always cited to explain some degree of our present miserable condition: economic decline, loss of communal values, urban decay, dwindling numbers of black marriages — even the inane content of contemporary hip hop. It has become a catch-all explanation, the substance of things we never hoped for and the evidence of bad things we've seen. The mantra is this: Integration Is To Blame. "We have," one elder informed me, "lost our minds ever since we got integrated." And at the heart of this indictment is the case of Brown v. the Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas.

May 17, 2004 marks the 50th anniversary of the most significant legal decision of the 20th Century. Brown set into motion titanic forces that have reverberated down to our present days. For what it matters, the current debates over the use of the Confederate emblem in the state flag of Georgia has its roots in the post-Brown backlash of Southern nationalism (states adopted Confederate imagery for their national flags during the 1950s as a means of symbolically resisting the federal order to dismantle segregation). The case marked the culmination of four decades of efforts by the NAACP and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund to overturn the doctrine of "separate but equal" that had come out of the 1896 Plessy v. Ferguson decision. It became a defining moment for a Supreme Court led by Earl Warren — a newly appointed Chief Justice who had, as attorney general for California, presided over the internment of Japanese citizens during World War II.

But the case had its black critics from day one. Zora Neale Hurston wrote that "I regard the ruling of the US Supreme Court to be insulting. I see no tragedy in being too dark to be invited to a white social affair." Hurston believed that the case actually affirmed white supremacy by assuming blacks would learn more when seated next to whites. Sarah Bulah, a Delaware mother whose lawsuit against that state's segregated school system eventually became part of the Brown class-action suit, found herself ostracized by friends, neighbors and even fellow church members (her pastor argued that the colored-only school near the church was "handy").

Some had personal motives for opposing the decision: Southern states frequently offered to pay the full tuition of black applicants to their segregated law and graduate schools if they would leave the state and enroll integrated institutions in the North. Still others argued that the case was evidence of middle-class Negroes' desire to be next to whites at all costs.

Even then, these arguments required a certain kind of near-sightedness in order to work. A generation of black lawyers had fought against the unequal apportionment of funds to black schools year after year, only to find that their expensive legal victories yielded only temporary changes — school districts re-established the old patterns after making cosmetic improvements to the black schools. On one level, the push for "integration" hoped to turn the logic of racism against itself, to place black children and white children in the same facilities and thereby make it impossible to under-fund any school without harming white children as well as blacks. It was more strategic than critics assumed.

But the criticism of the Brown decision has not abated 50 years later. In history, there is something we might call the Funeral Effect. This phenomenon explains how both deceased individuals and dead traditions are spoken of in warm, nostalgic tones, no matter how much havoc they created when they were alive. The Funeral Effect explains Russians who look at the bleakness of their present and yearn for the halcyon days of the Stalinism. It explains the conversation I had with a frustrated young black South African in Cape Town last summer. After detailing his inability to find work and his frustration with the government, he said to me, "Things were better under apartheid."

And the Funeral Effect explains why Joseph Lowry of SCLC has famously quipped that blacks had fought to get into the mainstream "only to find that it was polluted," and why legal scholar Derrick Bell has publicly questioned the wisdom of the desegregation efforts he helped to organize during the early 1960s. Fueling this perspective is a vision of black life that thrived despite the strictures of Jim Crow: neighborhoods filled with black-owned businesses, Negro League baseball teams and schools filled with black teachers devoted to nurturing the potential of their charges. This phenomenon almost always requires dimming the spotlight on the injustices of the past.

But nostalgia generally makes for bad history.

Almost all of the stadiums in which Negro league teams played where white-owned. There were indeed significant black business districts — notably in Pittsburgh, Tulsa, Atlanta and Washington, DC. But as early as the 1910s, there were complaints of black communities having too few black-owned businesses. James Baldwin wrote of his childhood that he — and most other black Harlemites — resented the poor treatment they received from white (in this case Jewish) merchants and landlords in the community.

The worst-case scenarios that many feared would be the legacy of "integration" have generally not come to pass. Historically black colleges have been largely successful in their attempts to attract talented students, despite the option of attending majority institutions. Black churches have remained vital cultural and political institutions. Integration has been cited for the decline of the black press. In the years after Brown, periodicals like The Pittsburgh Courier, the Chicago Defender, The Amsterdam News and the Baltimore Afro-American either folded or saw their significance dwindle. Talented black journalists found employment with white newspapers (many were hired on the spot to cover the urban uprisings of the 1960s, when editors feared sending in white reporters to black neighborhoods). Even so, it's hard to solely blame integration for the demise of the black press — the decline of these journals began in the early 1960s, a period when the overall number of newspapers in the United States decreased because of competition with television news coverage.

In a real sense, the concern over "integration" is a straw man. A recent Harvard University report concluded that black children were more likely to go to an all-black school in 2004 than they were in 1968. In criticizing integration, people are ultimately voicing a longing for the signposts of community. (White Republicans are not the only people longing for a simpler, long-gone era.) At a time when it is difficult to understand the complex commonalities tying black people together, many are longing for an era when geography at least was our common denominator. Still, it is possible to value community — voluntary community — without airbrushing the legal fascism practiced in this country between 1896 and 1954.


http://jelanicobb.com/portfolio/brown_vs_blacks.html
 
I remember my elementary teacher was like, "There wasn't even a million men." I guess he was trying to devalue the fact that black men came together like, "See, you can't even do this right.":nono:

At the 1995 MMM there absolutely WERE well over a million men. I was there. The aircraft estimates came up with well over 1.5 million to 2 million. The media, of course, reported much less. Now, two years ago, the numbers were abysmal and I was frustrated and upset.:nono:
 
You sound like my father. Born and raised in Atlanta. Marched as a young man with MLK and was very active in the Civil Rights Movement (sit-ins, boycotts, etc.). But he became disillusioned after the 60s. We talk a lot. (YES, HE'S A WONDERFUL BLACK MAN AND I AM SO BLESSED TO HAVE HIM AS A DAD!!! :clapping:.) He always said that the worst thing for the black man was integration. When we were segregated as least we looked out for one another. We had a strong community of doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. They were just as good...even better...than the white communities professionals. That social network was intact. But when integration came along, the black community adopted this "looking out for me" attitude. No other ethnic group has attained status and success, leaving the lesser of their communities behind. The Jews come to my mind. The black community is the ONLY ethnic minority that--when a few made it big--left the rest of the community behind. It's so sad. And according to my father, integration did more damage than it did good.:nono::wallbash:

Serenity, your Dad is correct. I used to teach an undergrad course entitled "The Economic History of Blacks in the US - Emancipation - Civil Rights." It was a nice opportunity to merge history with economic principle. I spent a lot of time on the stable communities of the south juxtaposed against the instable communities that emerged in the midwest and the northeast as the result of migration to employment in the manufacturing sector and/or cities.
 
Brown V. Blacks


In a real sense, the concern over "integration" is a straw man. A recent Harvard University report concluded that black children were more likely to go to an all-black school in 2004 than they were in 1968. In criticizing integration, people are ultimately voicing a longing for the signposts of community. (White Republicans are not the only people longing for a simpler, long-gone era.) At a time when it is difficult to understand the complex commonalities tying black people together, many are longing for an era when geography at least was our common denominator. Still, it is possible to value community — voluntary community — without airbrushing the legal fascism practiced in this country between 1896 and 1954.


http://jelanicobb.com/portfolio/brown_vs_blacks.html

Delp, I disagree with this article from an economic standpoint. The thrust is education as education was the issue of Brown. You spoke earlier of the concerns of improper or incomplete analysis. Black kids go to black schools in 2004 because of white flight. Black kids would have gone to black schools in 1968 if not for busing because of white flight.
 
Delp, I disagree with this article from an economic standpoint. The thrust is education as education was the issue of Brown. You spoke earlier of the concerns of improper or incomplete analysis. Black kids go to black schools in 2004 because of white flight. Black kids would have gone to black schools in 1968 if not for busing because of white flight.


I don't agree nor disagree with the article. I am perplexed about this issue. I need to think alittle more about it (and read about it). I think it is very interesting concept. I am glad you brought it up.
 
I don't think is is healthy or productive for us to blame the demise of the black family on slavery. IMO, the last thing black people need to do is look for an excuse. We are way to good at that.[/QUOTE]



My initial comment will always be my first reaction when I read articles like this. There are some undeniable effects that the institution of slavery has had on this society on a whole - not just black families.However, I agree with the bolded in that at this point we need to look for answers and not make excuses.
 
I get what you're saying.
Unfortunately slavery was not that long ago and it's a documented fact that post slavery there were very specific attempts at dividing the black family. Learned behavior passed through generations can be very hard to unlearn. When you have slaves that are tortured if they look at each other or enter relationships without the slaver owner's permission and the strongest slaves are bred together and then torn apart to sell them to various farms that can easily have an impact on later generations. Worsened by post slavery poverty, the heavy introduction of liquor and drugs into the black community, the fact that it's only been one-two generations that black ppl have had a near fair shot at an education or moving up the corporate ladder and it's easy to see why black ppl are lagging behind.
With that said I think we need to look towards the future and a solution. Any good cure, involves research of the cause of the disease, but we need to take responsibility and care enough to look for a solution.
I do not believe that black men (or women) are just born screwed up so something must be happening between birth and adulthood that explains the disparity between black and whites.

If we all care so much about the failure of black ppl esp. black men maybe we need to be as forceful with BET and the record companies as we are when a white radio personality makes a racist comment. What happened to the letter writing campaigns and boycotts of years gone past, what happened to each one, help one. Whether we like it or not we're all part of the problem. ETA for clarity: Many of us at least and I take the MLK Jr quote as a reminder for all humanity, incl. myself.

One of my favorite Martin Luther King quotes:

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict.


You wrote what I did not have time to write in my initial post. ITA.
 
You sound like my father. Born and raised in Atlanta. Marched as a young man with MLK and was very active in the Civil Rights Movement (sit-ins, boycotts, etc.). But he became disillusioned after the 60s. We talk a lot. (YES, HE'S A WONDERFUL BLACK MAN AND I AM SO BLESSED TO HAVE HIM AS A DAD!!! :clapping:.) He always said that the worst thing for the black man was integration. :nono::wallbash:


My dad said this as well.
 
You sound like my father. Born and raised in Atlanta. Marched as a young man with MLK and was very active in the Civil Rights Movement (sit-ins, boycotts, etc.). But he became disillusioned after the 60s. We talk a lot. (YES, HE'S A WONDERFUL BLACK MAN AND I AM SO BLESSED TO HAVE HIM AS A DAD!!! .) He always said that the worst thing for the black man was integration. When we were segregated as least we looked out for one another. We had a strong community of doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. They were just as good...even better...than the white communities professionals. That social network was intact. But when integration came along, the black community adopted this "looking out for me" attitude. No other ethnic group has attained status and success, leaving the lesser of their communities behind. The Jews come to my mind. The black community is the ONLY ethnic minority that--when a few made it big--left the rest of the community behind. It's so sad. And according to my father, integration did more damage than it did good.

I totally agree with this!
 
I understand your point that the white man has planted such a seed, but I beg to ask, why are the black men so highly effected by this and black women are not. This being displayed in the stats of IR's.

Second, I understand also that black people are effected more by the problems which hit America holisitically. But still, we never get to the why? Why is there an "it's all about me" attitude that you say black men possess? That question was never really answered.:nono:

I had been away from this thread for a few days, but I will try to answer. I think that from the moment our ancestors set foot here until the present, there has been a catastrophic division between BM and BW. What I see happening now is that a lot of BM are not being raised with a sense of protecting and providing for their communities, families, etc. I’m not sure if this is because there is fatherlessness, or something else. I agree with hennagirl that integration definitely hurt Black men, b/c it gave them a belief that they were equal. And they were not. Personally I think Black women are highly affected by this, just not in the same manner as Black men. Women in general are going to do “what they are told,” (i.e. go to school, study, etc.) whereas men are more prone to “rebelliousness.” I think for our Black men, this rebelliousness has dire consequences. We no longer live in a society where the police officer will see Johnny smoke pot and pull him by the ear to his house where his mother or father will beat him. Now, our young men are being put away for long periods of time for things that may amount to petty crime. We live in a Draconian society. People say that things are getting worse, but I believe that kids are not getting worse, the consequences for “acting out” are what is getting worse. If I’ve confused you, PM me.
 
I cant FULLY quote on this the way I want to (you know I ALWAYS have a good comeback, dont you? Yes, I know) but the very first thing that you failed to realize is...

White women dont give up on their own because after ALLLLLLLL those statistics you posted, the white woman still has A HUGE NUMBER OF ELIGIBLE, FINANCIALLY STABLE, RESPONSIBLE, PROGRESSIVE, NO CHILDREN OR VERY FEW CHILDREN OR CHILDREN BORN ONLY IN WEDLOCK, HETEROSEXUAL MEN WITH A MUCH LOWER % OF HIV, FAMILY ORIENTED, MATE WORTHY, NON CRIMINAL, MORE LIKELY TO INFORM YOU IF HE'S GAY, NOT MANY OR ANY BABY MAMAS IF NOT MARRIED, WILL WORK, WILL KEEP A JOB, WILL WORK TOWARDS GETTING A GOOD JOB, ROMANTICE, MARRAIGE ORIENTED, MEN !

They don't have to worry. If you go to the local "Lowes" chances are the manager will be a white male. If you walk into one of the professional offices of Sallie Mae, likely its inhabited by a white male than a black one. If you lk said enie meenie miinie mo to find an accountant in your local tax office, most likely its a white male, if you walk into the corporate office of Exxon Mobile, most likely its a whilte male.....From lowes all the way up to the #1 Fortune 500 co, you'll likely see a white male. And he likely has all if not most of what ALL females want in a mate. Sorry for hard truth. But its right here in your face. This :wallbash::grin: close.

And if you walked in on any of those mentioned, and you see a black person, it's likely a black female.

Okay then take a looksey at these #'s
http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/2k5/menDualTX/menDualTX.cfm
http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/NHSDA/A-11/WrkplcPlcy2-17.htm

The serial killer statistics -
  • The USA has 76% of the worlds serial killers.
  • Europe in second, has 17%. England has produced 28% of the European total; Germany produces 27%, and France produces 13%.
  • California leads in the US with the most Serial Homicide cases that have occured. Texas, New York, Illinois, and Florida follow shortly behind.
  • Maine has the lowest occurence of serial murders - none. Hawaii, Montana, North Dakota, Delaware, and Vermont each have had only one case of a serial murder.
  • 84% of American killers are caucasian.
  • 16% are black.
  • Men make up at least 90% of the world wide total of serial killers.
  • 65% of victims are female.
  • 89% of victims are white.
  • 44% of all killers start in their twenties.
  • 26% start in their teens.
  • 24% start in their thirties.
  • Out of all the killers, 86% are heterosexual
Do you think this make white women give up on there own?

I've yet to see one Becky use any of this as an excuse for why she's dating Tyrone:ohwell:

Also, to add insult to injury, this is ONLY ONE statistical category. Serial killers.

But so sad, our men top the list of MOST community debilitating categories.
:nono: Lard, where do i start....


  1. Unemployment or keeping a job (if he doesnt work, or isnt career oriented, he will likely fail or have a harder life, tech moving so fast, if one deosnt PLAN their career they can have financial problems like crazy)
    1. 2.
    HIV and AIDS (our men have the highest %)
    Not heading the family home. (Many dont want to marry, some who are, r 2 busy ho-ing or have TO many kids to head HIS household he's only 1 person)
    Incarceration (They take LOTS of $ out of my chk every monty to house feed and provide heat for these guys!)

sad part is, even my father agrees with me. And he's none of the above.
 
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Serenity_Peace...I have read the things you wrote...and you are on point. I live in Atlanta so I understand where you are coming from in regards to doing things right as a single black professional female and wanting someone that is equally yoked to you.

I can't find your post... But Kudos to you!
 
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They can say what ever they want about black love. I think it your love. I'm happily married to a very fine black man that loves black women, we respect each other and communicate and we have a great relationship, article like this one bother me because they group everyone together. (black men don't work and go to jail) (black women are nasty and get fat.) these things are not true in every cast of black woman and man, and actually could describe every race in this world. We are always targeted for negative information and articles.

Some black men get caught up in Hollywood are reach for white women and some are conscious and see real beauty in there own queens.:look:

How many people on LHCF are married or dating a black man and are happy. Plenty of us still perfer us.
 
LMAO! Now you know that's wrong...LOL!


I sorry, but this is funny as hell. Because most of the time the white girls are not even pretty. The black man is so messed up in the head that he'll just take her white (it is a form of self-hatred) it don't matter what they look like and they usually look like this or not far from it.
 
Yes, this is something we def. need to take into consideration. That gets me to thinking, if they say white couples are more likely to marry without taking into consideration that there are more white people, then the stats aren't going to be equivalent. If there are more white people, there will be more white marriages.

Example. There are 100,000 white people and 50,00 are married. The percentage is 50%. Then, there are 50,000 black people and 25,000 are married. A person wishing to create fallacies would run with these numbers, saying that black people are less likely to marry.


This is a good point it actually even.
 
I sorry, but this is funny as hell. Because most of the time the white girls are not even pretty. The black man is so messed up in the head that he'll just take her white (it is a form of self-hatred) it don't matter what they look like and they usually look like this or not far from it.

I've noticed this with a lot of the white women I work with. Many are not attractive by ANY stretch of the imagination (bad skin, dumpy, frumpy and worse) and THEY have husbands and families. I see my sister-girls walking around looking like models (gorgeous and dressed to the 9s) and when you ask them, they have never been married, not even engaged and have at least 1 or 2 children.

I am secretly reflective whenever there is a BABY shower at work (there have been quite a few - I work in a large global company). ALL of the white, asian and latino professional women are married and the sister' are single or in common-law situations). They "keep it real" and everyone knows they are not married, but they have a boyfriend (obviously).

I 've only been to 1 ENGAGEMENT/BRIDAL showers for any of my black coworkers and it was combined with the BABY shower cause she was already pregnant! :lachen:

Just an observation folks, but it makes me go 'hmmmmmm."

:nono: Sad, but true....
 
Delp, I feel your frustration. I was just a little confused because you correctly posted the cite that detailed the issue which is one of proportion. We constitute X% of the population and Y% of the incarcerated population which is the problem. I don't get where you are going with population size in this instance but since you posted the real stats and the issue for the ladies who wish to read it, no need to beat it to death.
.............................................................
 
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My response in bolded red:



Serenity, I love your mind!!!! I agree with your post in total. I would only add that I think integration was a variable that led to the disintegration of the intact black family and community. Pre-integration, black-owned businesses were a necessity. The strong black-owned business infrastructure slowly crumbled as we progressed through integration and entree into previously restricted employment. We no longer sought entrepreneurship, we wanted to work for IBM and Ford and Chrysler.


ITA 100%! You speak the truth. Integration did more damage than good!
 
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