Keeping Up With The Joneses - Marital Maintenance

Transformer

Well-Known Member
https://slate.com/human-interest/20...e-is-a-privilege-not-everyone-can-afford.html

It’s been fairly well-documented that lower-income couples split up more frequently than couples who earn more.

A few months ago, my husband and I announced we were parting ways after eight years of marriage. The response has mostly been supportive, though a few reactions hinted at something else: the idea that I simply didn’t do enough to make my marriage work. This well-meaning acquaintance and would-be marriage counselor thought Target was the place to tell me what I’d done wrong, just as others had before: I didn’t take enough date nights; I didn’t employ enough teenage babysitters; I didn’t go to therapy with enough consistency. I also didn’t take “marital maintenance vacations,” (which is what vacays sans kids are called these days, or so I’ve been told by fellow parents who often take them). I didn’t even take staycations, which, if you didn’t know, is when the kids go to grandma’s for a week so you can stay in your pajamas and spoon-feed one another tiramisu.

Not so surprisingly, these marital tips always happen to come from wealthier folks whose Instagram feeds are filled with trips to Italy, or Napa, California, or some exotic beach they happen to find themselves upon every third Tuesday, complete with pineapple-wedged drinks in hand. Couples’ trips are all the rage these days—or maybe they always were, only now we just get to see a parade of happy, sunbathing, marital boot campers all over social media. And as a mom on the lower end of the middle-class spectrum who has rarely paid her electric bill on time in nearly a decade, I was severely slacking on these crucial marriage-sustaining jaunts.

I didn’t even take stay-cations, which, if you didn’t know, is when the kids go to grandma’s for a week so you can stay in your pajamas and spoon-feed one another tiramisu.
The concept of taking more time for my marriage isn’t new to me. In fact, it’s exhaustingly old. I’ve gotten used to smiling and nodding, saying, “Yeah, we should get on that.” What I’ve usually steered clear of saying is that my husband and I never had so much as a honeymoon, let alone a weekend away together, in more than eight years of parenting.

We had a baby before we even got married, and from that point on, we were mostly trying hard not to drown in debt, which left no time and no money for swimming with the dolphins somewhere in the Caribbean. We did manage to take exactly one weeklong vacation a year—the time off my husband’s sales job allotted. And because we only got one, we took it as a family. Each cherished family trip got put on a credit card that won’t be paid off anytime soon.

Annoying as it may be, there is truth to the implication that my husband and I didn’t cater to our marriage enough. The fact is, we couldn’t afford to. We live paycheck to paycheck. My husband also works long hours, including many nights. Often, he wasn’t home until I was in bed.

For eight years, I’ve worked from home while taking care of kids to avoid the massive and crushing costs of child care, which typically meant pulling double duty. I spent all day with kids, then worked after they went to bed, or on weekends, or with a kid on my lap to meet deadlines. I’ve swapped kids with neighbors, worked in cafes with play areas. My mother and stepfather, who both still work full time, watched my daughter one day a week from the time she could walk until she was in school full time. Now they do the same with my son, for which I am eternally grateful. Still, time away from my kids has seldom been free time or time spent on my marriage. It’s spent working, typing away so I can make ends meet.

Date nights were rare. We were lucky to have one quiet dinner together every several months, if that. And during the last year of our marriage, I can only think of two occasions where we went on actual dates. The reality was, if my husband wasn’t working late, then I was. Or we were child rearing. Or making dinner. Or doing massive piles of laundry and dishes before collapsing. Because when you’re a paycheck-to-paycheck family, staying ahead of the bills never ends. And neither do household chores (especially if there are children lighting fires in your home throughout the day). While it seems like the stuff of fantasy to me, the ability to outsource chores such as these can have massively positive impacts on relationship satisfaction, says new research out of Harvard Business School and the University of British Columbia. Well, go figure. I never really thought cleaning up potty accidents and pet stains and folding clothes on such a constant basis were necessarily good for my marriage, really.


Yes, there are ways of maintaining a marriage that cost nothing. But even those require time to connect, and for working parents, time is money.
It’s been fairly well-documented that lower-income couples split up more frequently than couples who earn more. And it’s not that difficult to understand why. Plain and simple, fewer bucks in the bank means more financial stress. It also means fewer dollars to put into keeping your marriage afloat. If you aren’t making deposits, literally and figuratively, pretty soon you’ll be coming up empty. Sure, there are at-home dates to be had. A few precious moments of chatter once the kids are in bed before you drift off to sleep yourself. Yes, there are ways of maintaining a marriage that cost nothing. But even those require time to connect, and for working parents, time is money.

Still, I know there are things my partner and I could’ve done better or differently. The truth is, our financial difficulties were only one issue among many. It just made all the rest harder to navigate. Having financial struggle doesn’t mean your marriage is automatically doomed, of course. It just means you need to work harder to stay connected and maybe get content with a little less marital bliss than you envisioned. Maybe a lot less.

What’s not said enough is that becoming passing ships doesn’t just happen out of sheer negligence, though. Romantic dinners and getaways might be one helpful component to a lasting marriage. But imagining everyone has that kind of freedom is a certain kind of privilege. No, money might not buy happiness, but it does buy more date nights, therapy, and those ever-loving adults-only vacations I keep hearing about. I missed the boat on that one, but you go ahead and sip that piña colada at your all-inclusive resort. I’ll be over here babysitting all the neighborhood kids and writing about fitness gear at 4 a.m. so I can finance my divorce.
 
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I can dig this. While finances may not be the sole issue a couple divorces it certainly contributes more often than not. The US economy and family policies are not set up for even the "middle class" to be able to afford to devote time to child rearing and family. Maternity and paternity leave are both a joke. And wages are depressed with inflation so high its assumed most families will need to be dual income.

There are exceptions and ways to mitigate this, it can be done. But it used to be a given that a man could provide for and raise a family off of his wages alone.
 
This made me feel sad for this family. I wish them well and if there is any way possible for them to reconcile, I support it. Marriage is not all about money and trips, luxury liners. It's not a bad thing to enjoy these things in life, however, Marriage is the union of a man and woman becoming 'One' with each other, as God has ordained.

Through that union, they can stay together in spite of the lacks thereof. I know of many, MANY marriages of wealthy couples who travel, have lots to spend and then part their ways. It's more than about the money.

With this couple above, it is more that they had their priorities out of circuit. A lot of what she has shared didn't have to be as hard has they made it. However, this is just one of life's lessons, hopefully, they can learn from it.
 
Idk, my parents married young and broke, made 2 kids in one country, left and had 3 more kids here and they hit 40 yrs this year. They were super committed but more importantly my dad has done right by my mom all these decades, financially and emotionally.

For my parents, I think the cornerstone of their marriage is their faith in God and commitment to each other.

I get that stress can leave you at your wits end but I wonder if she’ll be much happier single. She’ll be even more broke and the kids will still be here until she finds a rich man.
 
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Idk, my parents married young and broke, made 2 kids in one country, left and had 3 more kids here and they hit 40 yrs this year. They were super committed but more importantly my dad has done right by my mom all these decades, financially and emotionally.

For my parents, I think the cornerstone of their marriage is their faith in God and commitment to each other.

I get that stress can leave you at your wits end but I wonder if she’ll be much happier single. She’ll be even more broke and the kids will still be here until she finds a rich man.

I agree. My parents lived paycheck to paycheck for most of my childhood and my father was in the military so that was another added stress. Times were rough, but they made the choice to work through the rough patches.
 
There was no link posted so I was kinda confused that it was an article and not a post by @Transformer I was really confused that it was a post by her.

Rich folks get divorced and poor folks stay together. I can’t say it’s a socioeconomic reason that would cause more divorce in the ones with less funds.

Sorry about that...need to find article that was in the Slate.
https://slate.com/human-interest/20...e-is-a-privilege-not-everyone-can-afford.html

Definitely not us ....we have exceeded 38 years of marriage instead of the 8 listed in the article.
 
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I thought you for a lonnnngtermer looking at retirement and all. I was like “huh”


Yep, retirement in less than 5 months. Marriage---can't tell ...it's NBA Basketball Playoffs.

True Story --I asked him to purchase another raised bed garden on Sunday...we were short one and I had a community meeting to attend. Of course he didn't do it....it's all about the playoffs.

Yesterday, I went to do it myself and ran into him outside the store --he had purchased it. Tomorrow DAY he is staying home and helping me with the garden.
 
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The article doesn't say how long they were together before getting married but I think I stumbled upon the beginning of the inevitable end:

"We had a baby before we even got married, and from that point on, we were mostly trying hard not to drown in debt,"

Seems like their entire time as a married couple has been a struggle fest. It doesn't sound like they had much fun besides making that second baby which given their financial situation another mouth to feed didn't help matters.
 
The article doesn't say how long they were together before getting married but I think I stumbled upon the beginning of the inevitable end:

"We had a baby before we even got married, and from that point on, we were mostly trying hard not to drown in debt,"

Seems like their entire time as a married couple has been a struggle fest. It doesn't sound like they had much fun besides making that second baby which given their financial situation another mouth to feed didn't help matters.
I was wondering why the second baby when they were already struggling :look: but that’s a classist, non-LHCF appropriate thought :look:
 
The article doesn't say how long they were together before getting married but I think I stumbled upon the beginning of the inevitable end:

"We had a baby before we even got married, and from that point on, we were mostly trying hard not to drown in debt,"

Seems like their entire time as a married couple has been a struggle fest. It doesn't sound like they had much fun besides making that second baby which given their financial situation another mouth to feed didn't help matters.

The bolded was another thing that caught my attention. She said they didn't even go on a honeymoon. I'm guessing they were very young, immature and made one financial mistake after another. One being another baby, another putting annual family vacations on a credit that, according to her, "won't be paid off anytime soon."
 
Yep, retirement in less than 5 months. Marriage---can't tell ...it's NBA Basketball Playoffs.

True Story --I asked him to purchase another raised bed garden on Sunday...we were short one and I had a community meeting to attend. Of course he didn't do it....it's all about the playoffs.

Yesterday, I went to do it myself and ran into him outside the store --he had purchased it. Tomorrow DAY he is staying home and helping me with the garden.

Chin up.....only another seven weeks or so to go.

As for us, we'll head right into FIFA.
 
The bolded was another thing that caught my attention. She said they didn't even go on a honeymoon. I'm guessing they were very young, immature and made one financial mistake after another. One being another baby, another putting annual family vacations on a credit that, according to her, "won't be paid off anytime soon."

I'm seeing a lot of resentment in this person. Whatever her dreams / expectations, they were 'delayed'. This wasn't in her life plan or not as she thought it would be. She fell into a 'had to' marriage and she just resents how things never changed into her dreams. :nono: Her Prince Charming became a frog and she resents the warts that came with him.
 
Yep, retirement in less than 5 months. Marriage---can't tell ...it's NBA Basketball Playoffs.

True Story --I asked him to purchase another raised bed garden on Sunday...we were short one and I had a community meeting to attend. Of course he didn't do it....it's all about the playoffs.

Yesterday, I went to do it myself and ran into him outside the store --he had purchased it. Tomorrow DAY he is staying home and helping me with the garden.
Awwwwwwwwwww :love3: Your hubby loves you more than the NBA... :love3: :cry4:

God bless both of you. I'm happy for your beautiful 38 years and many, many more. And never shall an NBA come between you. Always love, you will have over every playoff. :yep:
 
I'm seeing a lot of resentment in this person. Whatever her dreams / expectations, they were 'delayed'. This wasn't in her life plan or not as she thought it would be. She fell into a 'had to' marriage and she just resents how things never changed into her dreams. :nono: Her Prince Charming became a frog and she resents the warts that came with him.

I also think they are busy comparing their lives to others...what other couples are able to do. Both resent being “common”.
 
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I also think they are busy comparing their lives to others...what other couples are able to do. Both resent being “common”.
I think this is unfair. The article is written from the standpoint of her receiving unsolicited criticism about why her marriage failed. The focus was on what she or they didn’t do and it centers around marriage vacations. When you don’t have it, you don’t have it. I’d expect someone going through a divorce and receiving the brunt of criticism to be resentful but I don’t think it’s about comparing her life to other people. Her frustration seems to be coming from their lack of resources in general and the privilege other people reveal with their insensitive remarks.
 
I think this is unfair. The article is written from the standpoint of her receiving unsolicited criticism about why her marriage failed. The focus was on what she or they didn’t do and it centers around marriage vacations. When you don’t have it, you don’t have it. I’d expect someone going through a divorce and receiving the brunt of criticism to be resentful but I don’t think it’s about comparing her life to other people. Her frustration seems to be coming from their lack of resources in general and the privilege other people reveal with their insensitive remarks.

I’m referring to what led to the divorce. Envy of the perceptions others put forth will do you in. After all, It wasn’t stated that another person on either side was in the picture.
 
I understand her point that people who are not affluent don't have the luxury of frequent date nights, vacations, and therapy and that financial stressors can put a burden on a marriage which is true but I feel like she is using that as an excuse as to why her marriage didn't work. She fails to realize that under the veil of date nights, vacations and therapy the underlying theme here is spending quality time together with your spouse. They were so busy struggling financially they didn't have time for each other. They fell into a rut and couldn't get out of it. You don't need expensive vacations, date nights and therapy to spend time together. You can cook together, read a book together, take a walk at the park, exercise together etc the list goes on as long as they were spending time together it would have helped their marriage along. You don't need a lot of money for that. Do you need to be creative, yes. Do you need to be proactive, yes. And also after 8 years if you're still struggling financially the same way you were when you just got married somethings gotta give. I can understand struggling with a goal in mind i.e. paying student loans or buying a house but struggling to just struggle? Nahhh, that's just to much ongoing stress, a marriage has enough problems of its own it doesn't need financial stress on top of that. To help save their marriage they should have worked out a way to better manage their finances or make more income.
 
I would only ever dare to say this here and to my immediate family. But having a second child while driving the struggle bus is a huge no no. Let’s pray Struggle Offspring don’t see this article. Because it could easily make them feel like a burden or very much responsible for their parents divorce, when it is in fact their parents fault alone.
 
I would only ever dare to say this here and to my immediate family. But having a second child while driving the struggle bus is a huge no no. Let’s pray Struggle Offspring don’t see this article. Because it could easily make them feel like a burden or very much responsible for their parents divorce, when it is in fact their parents fault alone.

Amen!

There's a reason our sons are 10 years apart. The struggle is real and it made zero sense to add a second child until we were financially better off. It was so much fun having baby showers and putting his nursery together instead of stressing about money.

And she's crazy. When our funds were low back in the 90s, date night consisted of walking to the local burger joint (we split everything we ordered) and then heading to Blockbuster to get a movie to watch while the baby slept.

There's always a way to spend quality time with your spouse if it's important to you.
 
I understand her point that people who are not affluent don't have the luxury of frequent date nights, vacations, and therapy and that financial stressors can put a burden on a marriage which is true but I feel like she is using that as an excuse as to why her marriage didn't work. She fails to realize that under the veil of date nights, vacations and therapy the underlying theme here is spending quality time together with your spouse. They were so busy struggling financially they didn't have time for each other. They fell into a rut and couldn't get out of it. You don't need expensive vacations, date nights and therapy to spend time together. You can cook together, read a book together, take a walk at the park, exercise together etc the list goes on as long as they were spending time together it would have helped their marriage along. You don't need a lot of money for that. Do you need to be creative, yes. Do you need to be proactive, yes. And also after 8 years if you're still struggling financially the same way you were when you just got married somethings gotta give. I can understand struggling with a goal in mind i.e. paying student loans or buying a house but struggling to just struggle? Nahhh, that's just to much ongoing stress, a marriage has enough problems of its own it doesn't need financial stress on top of that. To help save their marriage they should have worked out a way to better manage their finances or make more income.


But again this is based on socio economic level. When you have not, you can't make time. You don't have time. If you are like two ships passing in the night because you work two jobs and so does your hubby, then there is not time to see each other, much less, to work on your marriage. No amount of creativity can help you if you don't have time to smell the roses, and can't take the time to smell the roses. And sometimes these sacrifices are just to keep their heads above the water, not to pay off bills, and not because they are keeping up with the jonses but just because they live in crappy towns with low income jobs and few possibilities to elevate their lives. At this point, an entire overhaul is needed, complete life changes from changing jobs, finding programs (even low income state programs) that help you get more education/start small businesses (some low income programs will give grants for this purpose, etc), changing towns if the well is dry, to going back to college, etc in order to get the types of jobs where you do not have to lose out on family and time with the spouse.

A lot of times this requires resourceful people who, if not financially together, are educated enough to research their resources so that they can pull themselves out of a hole, or luck up on finding financial or state counselors who can help them do so. There are even programs that help low income people go into coding schools (just read about that) for free and they can then make a ton more money than before. But again, how do people find out? Research. Most don't have the time for this, but it must be made, and if they don't know how to do it they must hope they luck up on people with the info or go to their local neighborhood place chapters and government program chapters for low income people where they can find out about all of the resources that can help them turn things around. Again this requires time. But if your marriage is on the line, perhaps you will have to risk losing money to make money and save your marriage (leaving a job and going back to school or going to a program, or even leaving it just so you can research and pivot, but again that would cause a lot of fear and stress right there for people . You have to be bold and brave in the face of challenges and it is something that isn't easy to do when your livelihood is on the chopping block and the clock is ticking and you need to make something happen everyday as well as feeding hungry mouths).

I am not saying that is an excuse, but there is a reason that finances are listed as one of the major cause of divorce (along with incompatibility and infidelity) and the leading cause of stress in relationships period. "Finances are the leading cause of stress in a relationship, according to a survey of people in a relationship or partnership released Wednesday by SunTrust Bank..... a study released earlier this week by the American Psychological Association found almost three-quarters of Americans are experiencing financial stress at least some of the time, and nearly a quarter of us are feeling extreme financial stress. "

Translation money = stress. I know she mentioned keeping up with the Joneses and is probably bitter that she can't but I do think it just boils down to the fact that she is being told, insensitively, that she could do more to help her marriage when she thinks that she was in an impossible situation. If they are indeed two ships passing in the night, it is possible that it made it a lot harder to keep her marriage intact. That is when values, compatibility, willingness tos tick together in tough time, strategy (how you work together), and other things would have to come into play which I can only surmise from my parents 40 plus year marriage, along with my relatives, my brother's, among other successful marriages.

Regardless, saying that finances are not a major stressor would be disingenuous (not saying you said it, I am using your quote as you brought up making "time" and being creative. ). I appreciate that but also I understand when there is no time. I think in those cases, something dire needs to happen to avert disaster. They need to put their heads together and come up with a plan to not only keep themselves afloat, but keep their marriage and family afloat as well. That plan may include a complete overhaul in life plans, jobs, education, even relocation, etc in order to change the trajectory of their lives.

the quotes came from these article and also there are other links to the whole marriage and even just relationship "stress" and "finance" thing:
https://institutedfa.com/Leading-Causes-Divorce/
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/04/money-is-the-leading-cause-of-stress-in-relationships.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...2/how-financial-problems-stress-cause-divorce
 
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