Keeping Up With The Joneses - Marital Maintenance

[frizzy]

Once resentment creeps in, every little thing becomes magnified and soon, it's over.

 

[LivingInPeace]

You know I often wonder if CHILDLESS COUPLES by choice are more satisfied with their marriage.

Based on my anecdotal experiences, yes we are.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

The article doesn't say how long they were together before getting married but I think I stumbled upon the beginning of the inevitable end:

"We had a baby before we even got married, and from that point on, we were mostly trying hard not to drown in debt,"

Seems like their entire time as a married couple has been a struggle fest. It doesn't sound like they had much fun besides making that second baby which given their financial situation another mouth to feed didn't help matters.

This. It sounds like they might of been better off not getting married, sad to say. Because that's really all they were doing while married. It didn't sound like much of a romantic relationship.

 

[NaturalEnigma]

But again this is based on socio economic level. When you have not, you can't make time. You don't have time. If you are like two ships passing in the night because you work two jobs and so does your hubby, then there is not time to see each other, much less, to work on your marriage. No amount of creativity can help you if you don't have time to smell the roses, and can't take the time to smell the roses. And sometimes these sacrifices are just to keep their heads above the water, not to pay off bills, and not because they are keeping up with the jonses but just because they live in crappy towns with low income jobs and few possibilities to elevate their lives. At this point, an entire overhaul is needed, complete life changes from changing jobs, finding programs (even low income state programs) that help you get more education/start small businesses (some low income programs will give grants for this purpose, etc), changing towns if the well is dry, to going back to college, etc in order to get the types of jobs where you do not have to lose out on family and time with the spouse.

A lot of times this requires resourceful people who, if not financially together, are educated enough to research their resources so that they can pull themselves out of a hole, or luck up on finding financial or state counselors who can help them do so. There are even programs that help low income people go into coding schools (just read about that) for free and they can then make a ton more money than before. But again, how do people find out? Research. Most don't have the time for this, but it must be made, and if they don't know how to do it they must hope they luck up on people with the info or go to their local neighborhood place chapters and government program chapters for low income people where they can find out about all of the resources that can help them turn things around. Again this requires time. But if your marriage is on the line, perhaps you will have to risk losing money to make money and save your marriage (leaving a job and going back to school or going to a program, or even leaving it just so you can research and pivot, but again that would cause a lot of fear and stress right there for people . You have to be bold and brave in the face of challenges and it is something that isn't easy to do when your lively hood is on the chopping block and the clock is ticking and you need to make something happen everyday as well as feeding hungry mouths).

I am not saying that is an excuse, but there is a reason that finances are listed as one of the major cause of divorce (along with incompatibility and infidelity) and the leading cause of stress in relationships period. "Finances are the leading cause of stress in a relationship, according to a survey of people in a relationship or partnership released Wednesday by SunTrust Bank..... a study released earlier this week by the American Psychological Association found almost three-quarters of Americans are experiencing financial stress at least some of the time, and nearly a quarter of us are feeling extreme financial stress. "

Translation money = stress. I know she mentioned keeping up with the Joneses and is probably bitter that she can't but I do think it just boils down to the fact that she is being told, insensitively, that she could do more to help her marriage when she thinks that she was in an impossible situation. If they are indeed two ships passing in the night, it is possible that it made it a lot harder to keep her marriage intact. That is when values, compatibility, willingness tos tick together in tough time, strategy (how you work together), and other things would have to come into play which I can only surmise from my parents 40 plus year marriage, along with my relatives, my brother's, among other successful marriages.

Regardless, saying that finances are not a major stressor would be disingenuous (not saying you said it, I am using your quote as you brought up making "time" and being creative. ). I appreciate that but also I understand when there is no time. I think in those cases, something dire needs to happen to avert disaster. They need to put their heads together and come up with a plan to not only keep themselves afloat, but keep their marriage and family afloat as well. That plan may include a complete overhaul in life plans, jobs, education, even relocation, etc in order to change the trajectory of their lives.

the quotes came from these article and also there are other links to the whole marriage and even just relationship "stress" and "finance" thing:
https://institutedfa.com/Leading-Causes-Divorce/
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/04/money-is-the-leading-cause-of-stress-in-relationships.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...2/how-financial-problems-stress-cause-divorce

Ok, we'll just have to agree to disagree. There is always time. Its what we choose to do with that time that makes the difference. If there was "no time" as you said they wouldn't be able to raise their kids or go on that week long vacation they said they couldn't afford. If someone doesn't have at least a couple of minutes a day to spend with their spouse then they shouldn't be married. I also think its easy to fall into a routine and neglect your marriage which is something that can happen to rich people too. Sure, there could be slew of other reasons why they divorced but things like personality, character, and values are almost impossible to change. Finances you can change. Will it be easy, no, but not impossible. If someone has problems with finances more likely than not they are spending their money unwisely, so by adjusting their spending habits maybe he wouldn't have to work as much and have more time. Are people callous for offering suggestions like expensive vacations to help their marriage when its not feasibly possible for them, sure, but that's people for you.

 

[werenumber2]

You know I often wonder if CHILDLESS COUPLES by choice are more satisfied with their marriage.

It's possible, but "by choice" is the key here and even that decision is far from static during the course of many marriages. And I've never seen a relationship turn sour quicker than ones where the couple goes into matrimony agreeing that they don't want children only for one of them to change their mind later

 

[luckiestdestiny]

Ok, we'll just have to agree to disagree. There is always time. Its what we choose to do with that time that makes the difference. If there was "no time" as you said they wouldn't be able to raise their kids or go on that week long vacation they said they couldn't afford. If someone doesn't have at least a couple of minutes a day to spend with their spouse then they shouldn't be married. I also think its easy to fall into a routine and neglect your marriage which is something that can happen to rich people too. Sure, there could be slew of other reasons why they divorced but things like personality, character, and values are almost impossible to change. Finances you can change. Will it be easy, no, but not impossible. If someone has problems with finances more likely than not they are spending their money unwisely, so by adjusting their spending habits maybe he wouldn't have to work as much and have more time. Are people callous for offering suggestions like expensive vacations to help their marriage when its not feasibly possible for them, sure, but that's people for you.

I actually agree with you for the most part. In fact I mention that they have to do an overhaul of everything. But not everyone has the same amount of time or money as everyone else. I personally would fight for my marriage, and readjust, and position. I don't think she has it in her or is willing to do it. I do think she has a ton of excuses. Regardless, I had to point out that time and again the factor of finances comes up to create discord in relationships, and marriages and that can lead to divorce if not averted (and that takes effort that she's not going to make).


(edited because I had a long comparison story)...

 

[NaturalEnigma]

I actually agree with you for the most part. I am just mentioning that I can understand the strain of finances. I am not going to act as if that is non existent and hasn't caused many a divorce. Can some weather the storm, of course. With that said, character and dedication are something she pretty much lacks. I can say that because she is full of excuses and no solutions. People have had babies in poor situations since the beginning of time and having common goals and mindsets can help those people to last. This is why I mentioned that if they were united in changing their circumstances, that would be different.

With that said though, I'm not in denial that a lot of people have sited in many studies, that finances caused a rift in their marriage, and in life the same. But of course, there are other options that can help them to turn things around if possible but I don't think she wants to. She seems wiped out and not receptive to anything but raising money to divorce the man. With that said, sometimes you can't adjust what you don't have. I remember a friend saying that she would have to buy less shoes and purses and save more and at the time I couldn't buy anything much less have enough money for gas to get me to and from work. I remember running out of gas before getting home and crying hysterically, lucky that I was able to pull over the to the side of the street. All I could do is walk home, and start figuring out how to pay to get my car out after it was towed because I knew that I couldn't afford to do anything at the time. And my relatives were so poor at the time that they were not going to be able to help either. I could barely pay my bills and I didn't have the money for clothes, or to enjoy life in any way. There was nothing but ramen noodles, there wasn't even money for $1 sandwiches at a restaurant because that dollar could buy 4-5 ramen noodle packs and so guess what? There is no eating out, not even at mcdonalds. There is only peanut butter sandwiches and ramen noodles. And that is after busting my bootay working double shifts for next to nothing. That is when I decided to overhaul things. I had to find a way to go back to school (I left on a medical leave of absence and things went to hell from there, and yet I had to pull myself together and dust myself off and go back despite health issues and I finished undergrad, and then my masters while also working full time in my industry. And despite that run around, luck can also turn aat any time. I found myself with a good savings, and establishing a niche in the industry...and now I find myself back in a phd program, and going slower again after being diagnosed with a chronic illness which is another set back. Things just happen that you can't predict. Lucky this time around, I had a savings and have a specialized position in the industry but that took a lot of work, sacrifice, and maneuvering). Sometimes it isn't that you aren't savvy enough, it is that you don't have enough period.

Sometimes it is hard for someone to realize that sometimes, there is nothing to adjust, because you have next to nothing, when they have never been in the situation. In these cases, there is a whole entire overhaul and pivot needed and people have to dig in and do it. There is no way around it. Otherwise, they can balk, complain and let their world cave in, and that seems to be her case. I feel sorry when I hear of stories like that because I know someone's spirit is broken and I understand because I've gone to that point. I've even gone through emergency surgery, and turned around and entered a school program the next month (this was last summer). At the time I was told to go on medical leave again and there was no way I was not going to move forward. I know what can happen if I don't because no amount of savings can last forever, and I will do everything to avoid the previous dire position I was placed in. But that was using every bit of my will to do things, coupled with permission to do independent study that year. I pretty much stayed in bed (like now) propped up my pillow and read my butt off, and wrote down my research, as well as contacted my advisors.

That is not something that everyone is willing to do. I've even skyped with them and excused myself to throw up and came back to finish. I am and was in so much pain that it was hard to function (and have a fentanyl patch. If anyone knows what that is, it is only prescribed for cancer patients and those with chronic illness and severe pain) despite medication. Then there are the medicines you have to take that make you feel bad, and you still have to put one foot ahead of the other to survive. Again, any reasonable person would say, don't do it. Rest. Some can afford it, depending on their finances and family support. But if I stayed and waited, I might wait for ever and there is no way I'm going to let things fall unless I have no other choice and I'm 6 feet under ground. That is because I know how things can end up regardless of if you have a years savings (raises hand but that is ran through now). But that is a thing I like to call "bound back" it is mind over matter, and still, there is still only so much you can do. When I was in the hospital, after surgery, all I could do is wait. Period. No amount of working hard would change that. Some people have more of their share of bad luck than others. Some things are out of our control. But we have to move forward when and if we can in what ways we see. Some cannot do that, and that may be her case. We can talk about what caused us to get where and so on, and talk about mindset, and our "energy" and so on, but sometimes we are hit with circumstances, or start of in dire ones. In those cases, it's best not to create more (this is why I did not marry yet), but she did by having more babies. So then what? Well, you need to dig in and pivot but she is unwilling to do that (at least it appears). A strong mind, spirit, and resourcefulness is necessary, along with sometimes luck (which most don't want to hear but it is what it and I will add God which others will probably balk or smirk at, but I don't think I'd be here without these things). So I guess I'm looking at her situation from the pit of despair. Maybe she wasn't there, but she thought she was. There are times where people are there, and these times require a strong fighting spirit, luck, and some maneuvering in order to survive them. I do think they could stay together but she would have to fight for it, just as I fought for my life and to change (and continue to change) my circumstances. Some will not, some think it's too hard, and others just don't know how...and so I can't judge her but I can understand the idea of feeling that your head is just above the water and you're trying to remain afloat.

Wow, you're right. I can't really relate because I've never been to that point in my life. I'd like to think of myself as independent but I've received help and support from family along the way. Thank you for sharing your story and giving another perspective. You aren't like most people I would say because most people wouldn't have the will power or determination to push through despite having all the odds against them. I'll definitely take that into consideration when I come across stories like these.

 

[luckiestdestiny]

Wow, you're right. I can't really relate because I've never been to that point in my life. I'd like to think of myself as independent but I've received help and support from family along the way. Thank you for sharing your story and giving another perspective. You aren't like most people I would say because most people wouldn't have the will power or determination to push through despite having all the odds against them. I'll definitely take that into consideration when I come across stories like these.

Thanks for that. I went back and edited my story because I thought it was too long for anyone to read lol but feel free to keep it in quotes. I'm not ashamed of it. For people willing to venture to read it in its entirety, I think it does have a point which is that sometimes you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip (I think that's the saying ), at that point you're going to have to get focused (after I'm sure panicking because it's only human) and try to find another way.

 

[ThePromise]

Based on my observations, it sounds like she wrote an entire article excusing the fact that they didn't spend quality time together. You don't need to have money to spend time together. I understand that some economic situations put you in a very uncomfortable spot, but that doesn't mean that you can't find time to cuddle during a good movie or enjoy time together at the park or wait up for him to get off from work some nights to spend time together.

Also, she needs to log off social media until she can get herself together. There's nothing worse for your spirit and confidence than watching what other people do and measuring yourself against it. It seems like she was worried about the people around her instead of worrying about what lies ahead of her. That's the best way to end up broke and bitter.

 

[Farida]

Correlation is not causality.

The fact that more poor couples separate could be due to a myriad of reasons.

Like in her situation, they were “poor” ...LHCF don’t stone me...because they made poor decisions. And I would not be surprised if they continued to make poor decisions all around in several aspects of life.

The US is so unforgiving to parents. Childcare is expensive and leave is nonexistent.

She mentions credit card debt for vacations. So they were struggling financially and had another child and used credit cards to vacation every year...so they were not making ends meet and were borrowing money to have fun. If they accrued debt to vacation I am sure they accrued debt for all sorts of things. One of the richest couples I know has 6 kids and the last real vacation they took was their honeymoon more than 20 years ago. Each year they do a one-week family vacation at a local family/cabin-style camp/retreat.

DH and I got married young and very broke. We were gifted a honeymoon and have only had one major vacation (paid in full) the entire time. Most of the time we have vacationed locally or just had dates. We are planning our next major trip.

When I was a law student I pulled very long hours. I was advised by women on this board to be careful about my marriage in law school. Excellent advice. We made sure every single night to eat dinner together and watch just one episode of a show together. We watched the Wire and a bunch of other excellent shows. It gave us something to look forward to and kept us connected.

When we started working we only had one car so we commuted together. We talked, laughed, shared music.

On weekends we did chores together. Not glamorous or fun but we stayed connected.

Kids are a game changer. I think they had to make serious changes in life to make it more affordable and spend more time together. I have friends who packed up and moved because it was way too expensive for them to live in our area and their marriages are the better for it. They can actually spend more time and make ends meet.

When finances make you passing ships you have to make some major changes. And offen people either don’t know how to or don’t want to. And it’s so incredibly rough with kids so I won’t even pretend to have solutions to fix that one. Many couples without money find a way to make it work.

That being said - marry rich. LOL.