Is type 4b hair uncommon?

[anon123]

4a Category 1:

size curl: small to tiny (pencil to average pen spring diameter)
shape/definition: coils/waves/ziggy 5's /"S's/O's
texture: SILKY, MOIST, *kicker--> may be fine or coarse
properties: CLUMP and wave
natural style ability (water to dry): wash and go with clumps of curls/coils/waves; may lay hair down flat- with visible waves and shine

4b Category 2:

size curl: tiny to micro (diameter of he average pen spring or smaller)
shape: coils/waves/ziggy 5's /"S's/O's
texture: moist/shiny/silky
properties: clumping or waving
natural style ability (water to dry): wash and go with clumps of curls/coils/waves; may lay hair down flat- with visible waves and shine

4c Category 3:

size curl: small to tiny (pencil to average pen spring diameter)
shape/definition: coils/waves/ziggy 5's/"S's/O's
texture: fine or coarse/hard, wiry + dry
properties: matting + tangling + extreme shrinkage
natural style ability (water to dry): hmmm, let me know; wash n no

4d Category 4:

size curl: tiny to micro (average pen spring diameter or smaller)
shape/definition: coils/waves/ziggy 5's/"S's/O's
texture: fine or coarse/hard, wiry + dry
properties: matting + tangling + extreme shrinkage
natural style ability (water to dry): wash n no

No matter the typing system, I always end up at the end of the spectrum!

The original question to where are the four b's seems to have shown up in the poll. There are more 2x as many 4bs then 4as and more 4bs the all the 3 groups. The only group that overshadows the 4bs seems to be the combination 4a/4b group. So from this poll so far, 4b's are not hiding out somewhere. They are darn near the majority if you count the combo group of 4a/4b as well. If not, they are the second majority so far in this time, in the poll.

We definitely are not hiding, but I think this poll is not representative of the board. Because the title itself is calling out to 4bs, they come in this thread, so they vote more. The board poll "what is your hair type" that is floating around here is a bit more representative:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=66804&highlight=what+hair+type

The biggest group is 4a/b and the second is 3c/4a. I think a lot of people chose the mixed categories precisely because it's hard to fit squarely in these typing boxes! Well, not hard for me, no one's ever said I was anything other than 4b.

 

[msa]

The biggest group is 4a/b and the second is 3c/4a. I think a lot of people chose the mixed categories precisely because it's hard to fit squarely in these typing boxes! Well, not hard for me, no one's ever said I was anything other than 4b.

Well according to some of the logic in this thread, you're a 4a because you have little tiny coils.

 

[bravenewgirl87]

I'll answer the OP:

Majority of black people (by nature) are type-4. Hence, why you had so many members who grew up in Africa or around Africans say that 4b is very distinct and does exist.
Many people who claim to have 4b hair on boards and in videos do not. But, you will find many of them on the streets.
I believe that certain people have H.D.D. (Hair Dysmorphia Disorder) which causes them to believe they are a certain texture that they clearly are not.
Many of it stems from the fact that the standards for black hair care are now higher. Especially since this outburst in the education of black hair care.

I have noticed that Black people categorize hair texture according to what the textures are in their family. If you have a relative with type-2 hair, obviously that will shape your perception of hair textures. Anything that requires more effort than type-2 would be considered "bad." With that in mind, you have a lot of type-3s who categorize their hair as type-4a/b because of a mild bought with frizz or because a few curls here and there that are not perfect ringlets.

It is the same with skin tone. You have several different undertones amongst all skin shades which can affect how skin color is viewed in other people's mind. Some people tan easily, while some rarely get darker than an 1/4 of a shade. Both can still be light-skin or dark-skin. You can be light with red undertones, orange, blue, yellow, bronze, or brown. The same for dark-skin. Same with whites. But, perception is dependent on how the individual was raised to see skin shades; if you were taught that anything darker than Alicia Keys is "dark," obviously Halle Berry's complexion would be confusing for you.

You also have flip side of this theory.

You have many type 4As that have relatively small curls with the potential to be defined but lack the sheen of type-3 hair, YET insist on being referred to as 3b-3c. There is not a huge difference between type 3C and type 4A, especially once styled. However, there is a difference on the two textures behavior and feel. One of more cottony and spongy. The other (when healthy) is more springy and glossy.

The system is very easy but people don't want to accept their natural textures. That is why I'm apprehensive of all this "love your natural" texture hoopla. There is not enough accuracy or honesty out there and it is deluding others expectations of their hair. You have a lot of 4Bs doing wash-n-gos and wondering why they are having breakage issues or when their "scab hair" will end so they can have hair like Cree Summer.

Not going to happen, captain. You is nappy and you need to accept it... or relax.

 

[Kurlee]

It does determine the texture of hair. silkiness=moisture retention=clumping of curls. They are all pretty related.

Take for example: Type 3s are more glossy, well defined curls. While there are different variations amongst those type 3s (3A-3B-3C) and each of those require a certain amount of care to achieve a curly look, it's very obvious that there's a difference in the way type-3 feels and reacts to products compared to type-4. Type 4 can have mild shine--with care-- but it is not naturally shiny.

you've never seen silky 4a's and dull 3c's? This hair typing thing is getting outlandish. Black people seriously have issues with their hair, man. GEEZ!

 

[loulou82]

imo you are not type 4 at all!! i see no 4. Your hair is gorgeous though!!

Some hair type systems describe 4A type as ranging from pencil size to coffee- stirrer size curls/coils. If that is an accurate description then she could be a 4A. Her hair may be styled in her siggy so her natural un-manipulated curl pattern isn't shown.

 

[Kurlee]

Some hair type systems describe 4A type as ranging from pencil size to coffee- stirrer size curls/coils. If that is an accurate description then she could be a 4A. Her hair may be styled in her siggy so her natural un-manipulated curl pattern isn't shown.

it's funny how type 4 hair has to be totally unmanipulated and dry like a bone to determine texture, but no other hair type requires that to decide what the texture is? It's like when type 4 hair looks a certain way, it's like, an explanation needs to follow or it needs to be seen 'naked'. When other hair types are styled and show their texture, whatever that is, it just is? Why is that?

 

[bravenewgirl87]

you've never seen silky 4a's and dull 3c's? This hair typing thing is getting outlandish. Black people seriously have issues with their hair, man. GEEZ!

Well, no Sh*t, Sherlock.

I'm not going to have this discussion with you if you're going to continue to throw out accusations. Your personal offenses to everything said about hair does not reflect my personal attitude on the issue. Just because someone says that their hair does not shine, does not mean that they hate their hair.
You are being the epitome of dramatic.

Please keep in mind that I am speaking on healthy hair for both textures. I'm a definitely 4B (C-napp) all around. When people look at my hair with no product, they might make the assumption that it is "dry" or "rough" to the touch because it does not have the "glossy" look to it as some curlies. My hair is perfectly healthy, but once out of the shower it does not shine. It's just a cottony mass.

 

[ceecy29]

For real, just because I wish my hair had a little shine doesn't mean I hate my hair or have issues with it or think the next 3xyz is more superior. So now cos my Asian roomie wishes she could do a fro with her hair and she vocalizes this, means she has issues with her hair?

 

[loulou82]

it's funny how type 4 hair has to be totally unmanipulated and dry like a bone to determine texture, but no other hair type requires that to decide what the texture is? It's like when type 4 hair looks a certain way, it's like, an explanation needs to follow or it needs to be seen 'naked'. When other hair types are styled and show their texture, whatever that is, it just is? Why is that?

I don't apply a different analysis when looking at a 4 vs. 3, 2, or 1. Most hair type categories have flaws and some request un manipulated hair.

I personally don't believe hair has to be "naked" (no products at all- meaning no conditioner or moisturizers) but I don't think it should be manipulated in a style (twist out, braid out, bantu knot out) either.

My main point was that Miss Priss Pot could be a 4A based only on her curl pattern (since shine, sheen, porosity, density, and strand diameter are not taken into account by most systems). She hair looked as though it could be in a stretched style.

 

[Kurlee]

Well, no Sh*t, Sherlock.

I'm not going to have this discussion with you if you're going to continue to throw out accusations. Your personal offenses to everything said about hair does not reflect my personal attitude on the issue. Just because someone says that their hair does not shine, does not mean that they hate their hair.
You are being the epitome of dramatic.

Please keep in mind that I am speaking on healthy hair for both textures. I'm a definitely 4B (C-napp) all around. When people look at my hair with no product, they might make the assumption that it is "dry" or "rough" to the touch because it does not have the "glossy" look to it as some curlies. My hair is perfectly healthy, but once out of the shower it does not shine. It's just a cottony mass.

k first of all, I didn't make the accusations towards you, if I was I would say YOU! I was talking about the thread in general. Secondly, maybe I hit a nerve or something because I have never implied the underlined red at all. You're calling me dramatic, when you are the one cussing and being sarcastic over hair typing? Errrrmmmm ok? Third, calm down!

It's cool to have differing viewpoints, because it is an opportunity to learn. Plain and simple. I think what annoys me about this thread is not individuals like you, because I respect everyone's opinion, it's the fact that many are missing that this whole hair typing thing and the way we frame it, the rules we apply to it are good hair/bad hair all over again. That's all.

I could care less who thinks 4b shines and 2a waves. At the end of the day, something like hair or skin, will never neatly fit into a box. It just can't. Genetics are too complex for that. I consider myself 4a because according to how I understand it, that's where my hair would best fit. Does that mean I could have some 4b tendencies? Sure! 3C tendencies? Sure! All it helps me do, is sift through the many members and get to see who has hair similar to mine and what they are trying with their hair. I check out hair advice from anyone 3b-4b and even some relaxed ladies, because guess what? It's all hair, it's all curly and it's all dry to an extent, therefore, we will generally need to do the same things, give or take. Geesh!

 

[Kurlee]

For real, just because I wish my hair had a little shine doesn't mean I hate my hair or have issues with it or think the next 3xyz is more superior. So now cos my Asian roomie wishes she could do a fro with her hair and she vocalizes this, means she has issues with her hair?

If this was directed at me, I think many are MISUNDERSTANDING my post. I simply meant that to apply stringent rules on hair types is EXTRA. Some hair shines and some hair doesn't. I have seen on this board, shiny and glossy 4's and dull looking 3's. The overall point is that hair is very diverse and to have a 20435493854320 page thread trying to say who has gloss and who doesn't? I mean really?erplexed When I said black folks have issues with their hair? Am I lying? If we can sit here and try soooooo hard to 'make up' rules as to whose hair is supposed to do what and look like what, that doesn't strike me as something is a non-issue.

 

[Desarae]

I've never been told I was 4a until this thread either...

 

[anon123]

Well according to some of the logic in this thread, you're a 4a because you have little tiny coils.

That does not count! It doesn't count if you're only saying it to prove a point! My hair is thought of as so typically 4b that you can actually make arguments using it as evidence. If someone says "4b hair does x", you can actually enter my hair as an exhibit and be like "mwedzi's hair doesn't" and it will stand in court!

 

[jupitermoon]

I've enjoyed reading everyone's views on this. Thanks.

Bravenewgirl87, you bring up interesting points.

As for shiny 4's and dull 3's perhaps it's not the silkiness of the hair that determines curl clumping but the smoothness? Like cottony/spongy hair may not clump as much and is light and tends to grow up instead of down? Hair that is smooth may not necessarily be fine and silky?

 

[loulou82]

Is there a 4B/4A category? I think I may have to switch my vote.

 

[msa]

That does not count! It doesn't count if you're only saying it to prove a point! My hair is thought of as so typically 4b that you can actually make arguments using it as evidence. If someone says "4b hair does x", you can actually enter my hair as an exhibit and be like "mwedzi's hair doesn't" and it will stand in court!

Exactly. You are def "4b". But folks are talking about "4b" doesn't have any coils...it has no pattern whatsoever. And in that case nobody is 4b except for the 1a's.

Like I said, I'm sticking with type 4...matter of fact I might just go back to calling it nappy. Forget all this extra stuff.

 

[bravenewgirl87]

k first of all, I didn't make the accusations towards you, if I was I would say YOU! I was talking about the thread in general. Secondly, maybe I hit a nerve or something because I have never implied the underlined red at all. You're calling me dramatic, when you are the one cussing and being sarcastic over hair typing? Errrrmmmm ok? Third, calm down!

It's cool to have differing viewpoints, because it is an opportunity to learn. Plain and simple. I think what annoys me about this thread is not individuals like you, because I respect everyone's opinion, it's the fact that many are missing that this whole hair typing thing and the way we frame it, the rules we apply to it are good hair/bad hair all over again. That's all.

I could care less who thinks 4b shines and 2a waves. At the end of the day, something like hair or skin, will never neatly fit into a box. It just can't. Genetics are too complex for that. I consider myself 4a because according to how I understand it, that's where my hair would best fit. Does that mean I could have some 4b tendencies? Sure! 3C tendencies? Sure! All it helps me do, is sift through the many members and get to see who has hair similar to mine and what they are trying with their hair. I check out hair advice from anyone 3b-4b and even some relaxed ladies, because guess what? It's all hair, it's all curly and it's all dry to an extent, therefore, we will generally need to do the same things, give or take. Geesh!

ohwell: ... alright with the okie-doke, Kurlee. And, we'll continue to play this same tired game ....

 

[Kurlee]

ohwell: ... alright with the okie-doke, Kurlee. And, we'll continue to play this same tired game ....

okay, i dunno what your problem is, because you are looking for something that isn't there. Looking for drama, where there isn;t any, as usual.

 

[bravenewgirl87]

I've enjoyed reading everyone's views on this. Thanks.

Bravenewgirl87, you bring up interesting points.

As for shiny 4's and dull 3's perhaps it's not the silkiness of the hair that determines curl clumping but the smoothness? Like cottony/spongy hair may not clump as much and is light and tends to grow up instead of down? Hair that is smooth may not necessarily be fine and silky?

They way you put it would probably be best. Some people attribute "glossy, silky, or sheen" to 1a hair, or white people. That is there hangup, not mine. But, you can have curly textured hair that has sheen and shine (provided it is healthy). Type-3s tend to have more shine with or without products.
Part of what makes type 4 hair look dull is the frizz factor and thickness. It might take more effort to clump the hair as opposed to a type 3 (provided it clumps at all). Once it dries, it become more of a cottony, frizzy mass than with type 3. But, it is not to say that it cannot mimic 3c hair. you can see individual curls in the 4A hair when wet.

 

[bravenewgirl87]

okay, i dunno what your problem is, because you are looking for something that isn't there. Looking for drama, where there isn;t any, as usual.

You are the epitome of drama! The littlest things turn into a "this-is-what-is-wrong-with-the-black-community" discussion with you. Why can it n ever be, "this-is-what-is-wrong-with-Kurlee"? That is my problem with you. You jump down people's throat, put words in their mouth and then assume your problems with a particular issue is every black person's problem. THEN, you deny it when the person didn't just call you out. Girl.... STOP! Kurlee, who cares if someone says 4A hair does not shine as easily as 3C hair?

WHHOOOO FRICKIN' CARES?

 

[msa]

okay, i dunno what your problem is, because you are looking for something that isn't there. Looking for drama, where there isn;t any, as usual.

I just went back and reread...and it ain't there.

I was going to say it's "just" hair typing, but clearly it's more than that.

 

[glamazon386]

4b Category 2:

size curl: tiny to micro (diameter of he average pen spring or smaller)
shape: coils/waves/ziggy 5's /"S's/O's
texture: moist/shiny/silky
properties: clumping or waving
natural style ability (water to dry): wash and go with clumps of curls/coils/waves; may lay hair down flat- with visible waves and shine

This is a great breakdown but I've never seen a 4b that looked shiny or silky. 4b hair may feel soft to the touch but it usually doesn't look it - even when moisturized to the max. I'm just saying... IME, most 4a's aren't even shiny. I understand the silky texture for 4a though. And some 3's are dull and not shiny. There's so many exceptions.

 

[Kurlee]

You are the epitome of drama! The littlest things turn into a "this-is-what-is-wrong-with-the-black-community" discussion with you. Why can it n ever be, "this-is-what-is-wrong-with-Kurlee"? That is my problem with you. You jump down people's throat, put words in their mouth and then assume your problems with a particular issue is every black person's problem. THEN, you deny it when the person didn't just call you out. Girl.... STOP! Kurlee, who cares if someone says 4A hair does not shine as easily as 3C hair?

WHHOOOO FRICKIN' CARES?

Okay, clearly reading comprehension is something you need to work on, so I will not bother to even properly respond to you. Calling me out about hair typing? Really?! If you haven't noticed, I am more than willing to engage anyone who disagrees with me, because I stand by what I say and welcome opportunities to see things in ways I may not have considered before. If you misunderstood and when I explain, still insist on telling me what I meant, then who is shoving what down whose throat?

Clearly you have totally misinterpreted everything I have said in this thread and are super projecting because anything I have stated is based on personal experience and I truly believe that it is detrimental to anyone, black or otherwise, to try to put people in neat boxes, because people just don't and never will fit into the categories people are so obsessed with putting them in. If you have a problem, thinking in abstract ways, that is not my problem. So as I put you on ignore, I would like to politely ask you to no longer read my posts, if you cannot properly: a) understand them and b) intelligently and articulately, disagree without being combative, disrespectful, aggressive and rude. I respect your opinion, but clearly you can't respect mine without being rude, therefore, we no longer should engage each other.

 

[andromeda]

This thread has me buggin' out.

 

[jupitermoon]

This thread has me buggin' out.

OMG! Eww! What is that?! lol

 

[msa]

Rosa that picture is gross.

 

[Neith]

This thread has me buggin' out.

He looks like a 1b to me, what do y'all think?

Yessir, he is an ugly thing. What movie is this from? lol

 

[bravenewgirl87]

Anyhoo, OP... carry on.

Besides one hiccup, I understood the purpose of your thread. As hair afficianados, there should be diversity amongst textures but, most 4bs need not apply.
Like others have said before, descriptions of hair types can overlap sometimes but, that is very rare. A 4A will react different when it comes to styling than a 3c or 3b.
Most of the times, it is people's own personal attitudes towards their hair texture that makes them see a type of curl that is not theirs (HDD, as I call it). Like, people with 2A hair referring to it as "kinky". Nope... it is just damaged.
Sometimes it is their fault, sometimes you have to chalk it up to misinformation. You have a lot of Youtubers, Bloggers, etc. who purposefully post pics of their hair in twist-outs, braid-outs, etc. just to deceive others (although, really themselves). You never see their hair wet or unpolished so you have no real clue what their hair looks like.

 

[andromeda]

Rosa that picture is gross.

It is, isn't it?

He looks like a 1b to me, what do y'all think?

Yessir, he is an ugly thing. What movie is this from? lol

Yeah, probably a 1b but with awfully thin hair. I think with some castor oil and protective styling he could be full ear length by 2010.

I have no idea where it's from. Just a pic I came across a while back and saved bc I figured it would have some use in the future. Well, the confusion (hair type and non-hair type related) in this thread had me buggin, hence the pic...

Sorry if it gave anyone a serious case of the heebie-jeebies. Carry on!

 

[melodies815]

That does not count! It doesn't count if you're only saying it to prove a point! My hair is thought of as so typically 4b that you can actually make arguments using it as evidence. If someone says "4b hair does x", you can actually enter my hair as an exhibit and be like "mwedzi's hair doesn't" and it will stand in court!

You're funny. I love how you love your hair.

cj