Is hair type due to race or genetics?
- Thread starter Dani.Nicole
- Start date
first2grace
New Member
Another Dominican checking in! I think it's random but closely related to genetics..however much sense that makes. Looking at my mom's hair, she's a 4 something, thick tightly coiled but very soft hair. My dad's hair is loosely waved and soft like baby's hair. My hair is thin and naturally 3cish, but I'm relaxed. My sister's hair is extremely thick and about like a 4a. She is relaxed as well and her hair behaves totally differently than mine. She can relax and lighten her hair, while I have to choose one and ride it out or there will be dire consequences if I try to do both. My daughter's hair is very thick and soft, she's like a 3b-3c. Her dad has super coarse hair. All of our heads behave differently and tolerate different products different ways. Ppl look at my daughter and think she's mixed because of her butt length curls. They look at me and my sister and think black when they find out were Domincan it's like "really...wow, I thought you would have had longer hair than that."
Cisselette
New Member
Cisselette wow, blown away here...I don't know what to say. There you have it folks! LOL You are probably the closest to describing the ancestry of New World Blacks.
Most slaves came from the regions where you're from or at least thru there...the old name was Sene-Gamiba for that region, right?Ok I think I made a mistake here lol... ok "ethnic" in French has a different connotation than it does in english. I should have used the term TRIBAL group. My baderplexed
Geographically, I can see the region you're referring to but I don't know what it used to be called. However nowadays, Senegal is a country and Gambia an independent country INSIDE Senegal.
http://www.thecommonwealth.org/Shar...0593B-0FD9-4E1C-B6B8-76803AFCFF9C}_Gambia.gif
They're not the same people.
As you already know the larger tribal group in Senegal is the Wolof. They make about 90% of the population.
About 5% of the population from is a tribal group called "Serere" and there are a few Fulanis but they're called "toucouleurs" in Senegal only. Fulanis elsewhere are called differently.
I take it you're from Senegal yourself, right? I didn't know that the Wolof were a subtribe of the Fulani. (I watch my Ousmane SembeneSo I know Wolof is a very interesting language!
) Which other groups are known for Arabic ancestry in W. Africa? (I'm thinking Yoruba for some reason)
I consider myself Senegalese, Guinean and Gabonese.
And this is were it gets chaotic so fasten your seat belt
The Mandigo Kingdom is where I'm from and it covered a surface that are today known as different countries: Mali, Guinea, Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso, etc.
People who lived inside the kingdom were from different tribes located in different areas inside that kingdom.
When Europeans placed borders and divided Africa into countries people from the same tribal groups were separated into different nationalities but they do continue to share the same customs, ancestry and language.
For example, my father is Malinke and this is also the name of the language he speaks. He's from Guinea.
The largest ethnic group in Mali is the Bambara. It IS THE EXACT SAME language as Malinke.
When my father speaks malinke, a bambara person understands as well an American understands english spoken by a British person...
In ivory coast, though they are a minority there, they're called Dioula(tribe and language) and speak the same language known as Malinke and Bambara elsewere.
I don't know how they're called in Burkina Faso but again, same language.
So if I give you my name: Myriam Cissé.... well I can be from ANY of those countries because they have thousands of people who are named exactly like that...
But actually my last name is very specific... we come from "Bakonko Cissela" (Village of the CisséS) so every person who shares this last name comes originally from there...
Ok now the fulanis
They're not only found in West africa. I have a camerounian friend who is fulani. Cameroun is a central African country close to Gabon where I was born.
Note that Fulanis are always a minority in all the countries they live in, except in Guinea.
Now, originally, all Fulanis come from a specific region that is today located in Guinea. There, they're called "Peulhs" in French which derives from "Pular" their language.
As I said above they're called differently depending of the country they live in but as the Malinke/Dioula/Bambara, it's still the same people.
My maternal grandmother is a Fulani from Guinea. She speaks Malinke (not pular) because she is a specific "kind" of fulani . Fulanis who are not from "Futa Djalon" where most fulanis people in Guinea are.
Since most fulanis actively practice endogamy, it allowed them to "survive" as a tribe wherever they went to live.
That's how they were able to conserve the specific phenotypes most of them have : light-skin, 3something hair, narrow facial features etc...
That's also why they have very few last names: Diallo, Sow, Barry, Barrow and a few more...
When my granny got married, she went to live in Senegal with her Wolof husband. So my mother is part Senegalese-part Guinean.
My father is malinke AND Sussu (his mother). Therefore 100% Guinean. Sussu is the second largest group in Guinea. Only in Guinea. You can NOT find Sussu people outside of that country. The tribal group and language are confined to the country.
Which makes me 75 % Guinean and 25 % Senegalese:
25 % fulani, 25 % wolof, 25 % Malinke, 25 % Sussu =
100 % pure product of 4 different tribal groups in West Africa
Why did I say that I consider myself Gabonese as well?
Well that's just because I was born and raised in Gabon(Central Africa)
Your mother relaxes only 1x per year? I hear this is not uncommon. So how does she wear/treat it...henna or anything special like threading? The growth rate sounds great and sounds very typical to your family. Did you wear your hair cut short when you were in school?
Chewing gum?! Umm..I ain't gonna ask!
My mother knows quite a lot about hair care... but doesn't know she does! lol
She's been using henna since before I was born(which was 25 years ago). She doesn't know about the benefits of henna, she only uses to dye her hair.
The only other product (besides the relaxer) she allows in her hair is... shea butter and shampoo 1x every two weeks.
Her hair is braided in very small cornrows that she keeps for several months at the time (she wears a veil so nobody sees her hair) which in fact IS a protective style... only she only does it cause it's convenient !
No, I only wear my hair short twice in my life: second time was after the BC and the very first was when I was 7.
A boy named Sebastian Sfiotti stuck gum in my hair (but I forgave cuz I had a crush on him) My mom had to cut it.
I had pretty long hair until I turned 14 and was pressured into relaxing...
Last edited:
whitedaisez
Active Member
HOW? the north east africans are a mixture of african and arabian (aryan/caucasian) gene. What is false about it? what are they then?
jennboo
Well-Known Member
Dani.Nicole
New Member
Why are black people the only race that has ONE "naturally occurring" hairtype ?
I don't think type 3 hair (or any hairtype inbetween straight and kinky) came to be simply from racial mixing.
I don't think black people are the only race that has a naturally occurring hair type. I hate to generalize but most white people I see have straight or wavy hair. I see a curly head every so often but not has much as the former. Same goes for Asians. Most Asians I see have very straight hair. No wave pattern at all. But every so often I see one with wavy hair, but not frequently. I'm not a scientist so I can't really say if mixing genes is what causes different hair types. That was just a theory. But if the genes aren't in fact mixed, how did they come about?
purplepeace79
New Member
Basically. This is what it comes down to IMO.
The women in my family have all had fast-growing long hair. My grandmother is Caucasian. I have the most highly textured hair of those in my family because my father is as dark as midnight and has 4zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz hair lol However, my mother, my aunts all had 3A or B hair and are pretty light skinned. My grandmother is in the 2s (her hair curls up at the ends in big ringlets).
I have 3c/4a hair and I'm medium brown skin.
Clearly genetics.
whitedaisez
Active Member
Why are black people the only race that has ONE "naturally occurring" hairtype ?
I don't think type 3 hair (or any hairtype inbetween straight and kinky) came to be simply from racial mixing.
Type 3s come from mixing type 4s and 1s. Type 3s are an intermediate hair type gene and r becoming more common since type 4 is vestigial to type 1.
Now, blacks usually have tight curls because of the african weather during evolution; the hair was to protect the skull from sun damage because dark skin had not evolved yet.
Neith
New Member
Asians don't all have straight hair naturally. There are a good number of wavies out there. Ever wondered why they made JAPANESE hair straightening?
That's my point though. Every race has SOME natural variety. I'm not saying that type 4 isn't the most common type, but it's not the only type.
How did type 1 or type 4 come about?
It's as if people think that white = type 1 and black = type 4 and there was nothing inbetween until they mixed.
Doesn't that sound strange to you?
If type 1 EVOLVED FROM type 4, how is there no naturally occurring middle ground?
You take a black person and put them in a cloudy, low light environment and their hair/skin may change GRADUALLY.
It's not like if you dropped me in Norway for a year, I'll come back white with type 1 hair.
It'd take MANY generations to go from dark to white. There MUST BE middle ground, that is not a product of racial mixing.
Last edited:
a_shoe_6307
New Member
Ok...I hear ya
Does this make sense?
Y'all wanna see a fairly typical Saudi who shows their hair? Look up Prince Bandar. Tell me he don't look like James Earl Jones!
I knew a girl in high school who was Jewish and she relaxed. I mean like a relaxer like AA women use because her hair was very coarse. Some people call it a Jew Fro. I actually have a looser texture than her (I am 3a/b/c). That being said I think it is genetics and race that influence out hair types.
Dani.Nicole
New Member
Asians don't all have straight hair naturally. There are a good number of wavies out there. Ever wondered why they made JAPANESE hair straightening?
That's my point though. Every race has SOME natural variety. I'm not saying that type 4 isn't the most common type, but it's not the only type.
Honestly I don't know anyone who's Japanese
erplexed I only know those who are Filipino, Chinese, Vietnamese, and Korean. I very rarely see a wavy Asian. But I'm just stating what I see in my area.
Neith
New Member
Honestly I don't know anyone who's Japanese
From the outside looking in... you can't only take that into account. Your experience isn't always the full picture.
Someone who really didn't know any better might think that it's very common for black women to have type 1 hair if all they were exposed to was black women with relaxed hair. Wouldn't that be funny?
Believe me, there are wavy Asian people out there. Probably the odd curly head, who knows? Not ONLY the Japanese, I just put that out there because lots of people know about Japanese straightening, but never really think about why the Japanese would create such a product if stick straight hair was so common.
Not saying they are a majority, don't get me wrong.
Last edited:
whitedaisez
Active Member
East africans migrated out of africa but the originals (the bushmen) that did don't exist anymore. The closest resemblance of the original east africans are the Khosians of southern africa; they have dilated asian-looking eyes. The current east africans are hybrids of immigrants from the BACK MIGRATION.
And yes, type 3s are an average of 4s and 1s and other combinations alike. Depending on the strengths of the alleles that code for hair, the texture can appear within the range of 2s and 3s, it doesn't have to be EXACT 2.5 because people are different. There is no such thing as pure africans anymore. Modern africans like me are mixed just as much as african americans, no difference.
"Africa" is now merely a term for geographical identity rather than actual genetics. There have been so many mixes that the original genes have been deactivated. Kinky hair, being a vestigial trait, is becoming deactivated as well. Modern africans and their descendants are now having a loser hair type.
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
It's a way of making black people monolithic. It is a dangerous way of framing ourselves because of its colonial roots, but also because it has no basis in fact. Holding on to these ideas is divisive and unhealthy. Why do white people have different eye and hair color and can have straight or curly hair and no one bats an eye. Let a black person have some obvious curls, a hazel eye of some light skin and we're confused or imply they are mixed with something? I think that thinking is kinda strange.Why are black people the only race that has ONE "naturally occurring" hairtype ?
I don't think type 3 hair (or any hairtype inbetween straight and kinky) came to be simply from racial misxing.
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
Lots of Asians have wavy, curly coarse, sometimes frizzy hair. Trust that they know all the tricks and chemicals to make it straightAsians don't all have straight hair naturally. There are a good number of wavies out there. Ever wondered why they made JAPANESE hair straightening?
That's my point though. Every race has SOME natural variety. I'm not saying that type 4 isn't the most common type, but it's not the only type .
.
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
Kurlee didn't you get your copy of THE HANDBOOK? Everyone BUT Black folks are allowed to have any genetic trait that comes that way and it isn't to be questioned, but if you're Black you MUST accout for it to the satisfaction of THE COMMITTEE. It was on page 359 paragraphs 3-7!
whitedaisez it is what it is. Shrug. What about YOUR family? Does anyone have/had long hair?
It just weird to me that we put these weird restraints on "blackness"
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
How do we know and assume that "Andre 4" is the most common type in the US since most Black Americans are relaxed? Large numbers of BM disguise their pattern w/ very short hair cuts.
When I look at a relaxed person, I have no idea of what their hair is like. Even some naturals I have no idea because it's easy to alter your curl pattern/texture and quite common to do so. LOL...I only worry about my own hair.
As for Japanese Straightening, it was created in Kyoto by a hairdresser named Yuko. The method was quite developed around the hair texture of her clients. It's far too harsh for African textures (Caucasian textures to quite honestly), IMHO....but it does the job well for Asian hair textures. Of course, she'd not come up w/ it if there wasn't demand.
glamazon386
Well-Known Member
Genetics.... Race is a social construct.
whitedaisez
Active Member
ok look, there are NO naturally occurring type 2s/3s.
Black/African pple are type 4s because:
During evolution, humans were pale skinned in Africa.
To protect the pale scalp from sun damage, the hair evolved kinky hair that "stood" up to shield the head from the scotching sun. Due to the intense heat/moisture, this hair type (4), tends to be naturally dry.
Overtime, humans developed dark skin to shield the skin from the abundant sunlight and prevent too much vit D.
Because of this, kinky hair is now a VESTIGIAL/RECESSIVE trait because it is now no longer needed on dark skinned people. Their scalp was now dark and contained enough melanin for protection.
During the big migration out of africa, those that migrated to cold areas (europe), turned back to pale skin because the sun was not abundant like in africa and they needed MORE vit D.
To ensure sufficient vit D into the scalp as well, their hair evolved from kinky to "straight" and "falls" instead of standing (afro).
This way, the sun can penetrate the scalp. Due to the cold dry temperatures in these areas, this type of hair tends to be oily.
Now, since dark skin evolved for skin and scalp protection, the humans that did not migrate to cold areas and migrated to hot areas (like south asia) intermarried a lot with those that migrated to the cold areas. Thus, their kinky hair from africa evolved to being straight even though their environment had a lot of sun.
e.g, Southeast asians are dark skinned and live in hot areas but they do not have kinky hair.
HOWEVER, the africans that stayed in africa and did not migrate, continued to have kinky hair even though their dark skin, like the south indians, was sufficient enough to protect the scalp.
This is because of intense INTRA marriages amongst themselves.
EXTREME isolation from the other humans that migrated, kept kinky hair alive.
Then, there was a period of BACK migration back to Africa.
This introduced INTER marriages, thus producing varying skin tones and intermediate HAIR TYPES OF 2s/3s.
That is why people with intermediate hair type 2s/3s are becoming more abundant.
If black/african people keep reproducing with other races (who all have straightish hair), then in a couple of thousands of years, kinky hair will become extinct due to its futility for survival.
SO, I HOPE I CLEARED THIS DEBATE. THERE ARE NO NATURALLY OCCURING INTERMIDIATE SKIN AND HAIR TYPES.
BECAUSE OF THE BACK MIGRATION, EVERYONE IN THE WORLD IS NOW MIXED. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE EXTENT OF YOUR MIXTURE.
*ALL THE CHANGES I MENTIONED HAPPENED GRADUALLY, OVER THOUSANDS OF YEARS*
Black/African pple are type 4s because:
During evolution, humans were pale skinned in Africa.
To protect the pale scalp from sun damage, the hair evolved kinky hair that "stood" up to shield the head from the scotching sun. Due to the intense heat/moisture, this hair type (4), tends to be naturally dry.
Overtime, humans developed dark skin to shield the skin from the abundant sunlight and prevent too much vit D.
Because of this, kinky hair is now a VESTIGIAL/RECESSIVE trait because it is now no longer needed on dark skinned people. Their scalp was now dark and contained enough melanin for protection.
During the big migration out of africa, those that migrated to cold areas (europe), turned back to pale skin because the sun was not abundant like in africa and they needed MORE vit D.
To ensure sufficient vit D into the scalp as well, their hair evolved from kinky to "straight" and "falls" instead of standing (afro).
This way, the sun can penetrate the scalp. Due to the cold dry temperatures in these areas, this type of hair tends to be oily.
Now, since dark skin evolved for skin and scalp protection, the humans that did not migrate to cold areas and migrated to hot areas (like south asia) intermarried a lot with those that migrated to the cold areas. Thus, their kinky hair from africa evolved to being straight even though their environment had a lot of sun.
e.g, Southeast asians are dark skinned and live in hot areas but they do not have kinky hair.
HOWEVER, the africans that stayed in africa and did not migrate, continued to have kinky hair even though their dark skin, like the south indians, was sufficient enough to protect the scalp.
This is because of intense INTRA marriages amongst themselves.
EXTREME isolation from the other humans that migrated, kept kinky hair alive.
Then, there was a period of BACK migration back to Africa.
This introduced INTER marriages, thus producing varying skin tones and intermediate HAIR TYPES OF 2s/3s.
That is why people with intermediate hair type 2s/3s are becoming more abundant.
If black/african people keep reproducing with other races (who all have straightish hair), then in a couple of thousands of years, kinky hair will become extinct due to its futility for survival.
SO, I HOPE I CLEARED THIS DEBATE. THERE ARE NO NATURALLY OCCURING INTERMIDIATE SKIN AND HAIR TYPES.
BECAUSE OF THE BACK MIGRATION, EVERYONE IN THE WORLD IS NOW MIXED. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE EXTENT OF YOUR MIXTURE.
*ALL THE CHANGES I MENTIONED HAPPENED GRADUALLY, OVER THOUSANDS OF YEARS*
Last edited:
Neith
New Member
If BLACK PEOPLE migrated to other areas and DEVELOPED lighter skin and looser hair, you think that change happened overnight?
That they suddenly got white and had stick straight hair after being in a cold environment for a few days?
Or do you think it was a gradual change that took hundreds/thousands of years and many generations? If it was a gradual change, then the hair SLOWLY got looser. They didn't go from 4b to 1a in one shot in one day. Hair types between kinky and straight MUST have occurred NATURALLY somewhere down the line if there initially WERE NO "other" races before Africans began to migrate.
This also goes for skin color. Africans suddenly turned Caucasian and Asian? Or was it a gradual change in skin colors, hair types and facial features, etc.?
Last edited:
AfroKink
Well-Known Member
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/index.html
National Geographics Genographic project can answer some of your human migration and genetics questions
Lys
National Geographics Genographic project can answer some of your human migration and genetics questions
Lys
whitedaisez
Active Member
YES. its was a GRADUAL change of course that happened within 1000s of yrs.
Thats why i said, if africans/blacks keep reproducing interracially, kinky hair will go extinct in thousands of yrs to come.
Remember, straight hair is dominant over all other hair types. Any intermediates during the evolution process at that time, would have inter-married with the straight haired people, making their hair straight overtime (south indians). So, naturally occurring intermediates, in THOSE COLD AREAS, would have died off.
Thats de point of evolution. You evolve so u can stabilize within ur environment. Straight hair, being the final result for stabilization in those areas at that time, is wat survived to today.
Last edited:
Similar threads
