Is hair type due to race or genetics?

[jamaraa]

..............................

 

[Nonie]

There are plenty of White folks w/ very coarse textures (ok...I'll say it...nappy). Ever heard of Princess Anne? She used to get clowned for it when she was younger and unpopular, but now that she's a hard worker she gets repsect. (Prince Charles is a firm "Andre 3 and quite into 4"...well, they DO have Hanibal in their lineage )

Anne's son Peter Phillips (when he had his hair ) was a Andre 3-4 too. So why would anybody be surprised to see it when it's right in front of your faces? Is it that their skin color doesn't go w/ their hair texture, so it's canceled out? I'm baffled.

I think the reason it's odd is coz it's not common among those who look like them. In other words, notice you're only naming one or two people, not saying a whole tribe of people have hair like that. And those that you are naming have more relatives with common traits that differ from theirs, hence the reason it's abnormal to them.

I think there's a member here (sorry I forget your name) who is white and whose hair is not smooth straight type 1 like most of her family. She joined the forum because to her her hair was more like ours than "other people in her family or race" and felt she'd benefit from learning our hair care methods. IIRC, there are those who thought she was taking the micky coz she claimed her hair was like ours when some have kinkier hair that takes forever to style or deal with. I totally understood where she was coming from coz I imagine if you grew up in an environment where no on knew how to deal with hair like that, you'd sort of feel out of place and from that point of view, your hair would feel like it was like ours. You have to remember that the nuances of type are only familiar to hair fanatics like us. As I was telling someone in a PM, part of why texture issues never even occurred to me when I was growing up was I was so oblivious to the fact that people that look like me could have varying hair textures. It all looked the same to me and all I wanted was length. So for a white person, if her hair doesn't look like the majority of white people, it can feel "abnormal" to them.

 

[jamaraa]

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[jamaraa]

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[Nonie]

^^ Oh OK. I totally get where you were going with your argument.

 

[bedazzled]

a bit irrelevant but its cool haha.

(not sure if her hair is permed)

 

[lovenharmony]

I think this article pretty much says it all

NOTE: Some of the imagery may be NSFW so I suggest reading it at home...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"This is a theory[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] i'm trying to piece together, its still a work in process, a puzzle of humanity so to speak." [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Negritos" were the first people in Southeast Asia, sounds like negroid huh? The word "Negrito" came from the spanish word "little negro". Some scientist believe humanity to be one race, the "Afro-Asiatic" or "Asian/African" race. Or better yet just the "ASIATIC RACE", since the word asia came first even before the word africa. (Roman) Publius Cornelius Scipio 'Africanus', (236 - 184 BC) renamed parts of Sudan, Nubia, Kush & Abyssinia, they never called it "AFRICA". [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Even europe is just a peninsula of asia since it is on the Eurasian Plate. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Geographically, Europe is often described as a subcontinent of Eurasia, a vast landmass in which Europe and Asia are delimited by mountain ranges and inland seas (russia is also apart of asia). Southwest Asia or Southwestern Asia (often confused with the Middle East) is the southwestern portion of Asia (india is south asia).[/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The earliest kingdom of Southeast Asia is called Fou Nan, famous for building masterful canal systems. Chinese historians described the Fou Nanese men as "small and very dark." Before the russians & indo-europeans (lighter skinned people) conquered most of asia was light brown or dark brown skinned people. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Notice to the left of "Asia" there are "Indo-european" countries and above "Asia" is "Russia". [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I believe its quite possible the dark/brown skinned asians mixed with the light skinned russians -- indo-europeans --which account for the yellow skinned asian population today. Just as lighter skinned africans are called "YELLOW". Or better yet in african american slang, "High Yella" means of mixed ancestry.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The first Chinese emperor, the legendary Fu-Hsi (2953-2838 B.C.) was a curly/kinky haired dark brown skinned Man. He is credited with establishing government, originating social institutions and cultural inventions. He is said to have originated the I Ching, or The Book of Change, which is the oldest, most revered system of prophecy. It is known to have influenced the most distinguished philosophers of Chinese thought.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Early migrations out of Africa - Middle east:[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]People first migrated from East Africa around the regions of Ethiopia and Somalia to Yemen, Oman, Southern India, Burma, China, Malaysia, The Philippines, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Australia, The Solomon Islands and all the little islands in between, then finally making their way to the americas. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A picture is worth a thousand words, i'll start with the peoples of asia. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]These pictures are of the original people of South East Asia "LABELED" negritos. The pictures below are of the Light skinned or "yellow" European mixed negritos of today? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]

​

 

[Bella_Atl]

I think this article pretty much says it all

NOTE: Some of the imagery may be NSFW so I suggest reading it at home...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"This is a theory[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] i'm trying to piece together, its still a work in process, a puzzle of humanity so to speak." [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Negritos" were the first people in Southeast Asia, sounds like negroid huh? The word "Negrito" came from the spanish word "little negro". Some scientist believe humanity to be one race, the "Afro-Asiatic" or "Asian/African" race. Or better yet just the "ASIATIC RACE", since the word asia came first even before the word africa. (Roman) Publius Cornelius Scipio 'Africanus', (236 - 184 BC) renamed parts of Sudan, Nubia, Kush & Abyssinia, they never called it "AFRICA". [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Even europe is just a peninsula of asia since it is on the Eurasian Plate. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Geographically, Europe is often described as a subcontinent of Eurasia, a vast landmass in which Europe and Asia are delimited by mountain ranges and inland seas (russia is also apart of asia). Southwest Asia or Southwestern Asia (often confused with the Middle East) is the southwestern portion of Asia (india is south asia).[/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The earliest kingdom of Southeast Asia is called Fou Nan, famous for building masterful canal systems. Chinese historians described the Fou Nanese men as "small and very dark." Before the russians & indo-europeans (lighter skinned people) conquered most of asia was light brown or dark brown skinned people. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Notice to the left of "Asia" there are "Indo-european" countries and above "Asia" is "Russia". [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I believe its quite possible the dark/brown skinned asians mixed with the light skinned russians -- indo-europeans --which account for the yellow skinned asian population today. Just as lighter skinned africans are called "YELLOW". Or better yet in african american slang, "High Yella" means of mixed ancestry.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The first Chinese emperor, the legendary Fu-Hsi (2953-2838 B.C.) was a curly/kinky haired dark brown skinned Man. He is credited with establishing government, originating social institutions and cultural inventions. He is said to have originated the I Ching, or The Book of Change, which is the oldest, most revered system of prophecy. It is known to have influenced the most distinguished philosophers of Chinese thought.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Early migrations out of Africa - Middle east:[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]People first migrated from East Africa around the regions of Ethiopia and Somalia to Yemen, Oman, Southern India, Burma, China, Malaysia, The Philippines, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Australia, The Solomon Islands and all the little islands in between, then finally making their way to the americas. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A picture is worth a thousand words, i'll start with the peoples of asia. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]These pictures are of the original people of South East Asia "LABELED" negritos. The pictures below are of the Light skinned or "yellow" European mixed negritos of today? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]

Really cool.

 

[Neith]

Think of it the same way you think of skin color or any other feature. It's genetic.

 

[ceebee3]

OMG, did you have to quote all those pics?

I hope no one quotes the Anne pics, she's not pretty.

 

[lovenharmony]

The article is wayy too long for me to post all of it here...check it out here

http://blogs.myspace.com/stevenlai

The Blog is entitled

Race is a Touchy Subject....

That's all folks! (exits thread)

 

[jamaraa]

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[Sweet_Ambrosia]

Genetics/Ancestry.

I haven't read the whole thread, just skimmed through a few pages, but this sums it up for me. No matter how you slice it, all physical characteristics (hair, eye color, skin tone etc..) are tied to genetics and ancestry.

 

[Ozma]

I think you explained it pretty well without getting to scientific. But you're definitely right. I've been on a quest to prove a friend of mine wrong regarding my hair texture. It is her belief that because my mother is Hispanic and my father is biracial, that is why I have the hodgepodge of curls and that had I been a "real black person" I would have solely 4b hair. I personally don't believe it has much to do with race but rather carriers of the trait. This same issue applies to hair and eye color. Part of the issue is that people often confuse race and ethnicity thus making it harder to disprove the myth. I like Bella consider my race Black and my ethnicity Hispanic. For all I know I could've been born with a new hair type 5a I just want it to be healthy

I am a "real" black person with 3b-c hair. My mother's family is part Creole, but both my parents are black Americans. It is a genetic role of the dice, imo. My aunt who has 4b hair wore it to her butt well into her 20s before cutting it. There are more than a few women with type 2 and 3 hair in my family.

 

[30something]

About the word "syndrome", while mostly used to refer to disease, syndrome does have a broader definition of just referring to "a group of things or events that form a recognizable pattern" albeit usually that pattern is "undesirable" if we're talking of syndrome. (Encarta). In fact, Merriam Webster doesn't describe "syndrome" as disease but rather as some "abnormality or condition" which in the case of Woolly Hair Syndrome in white people would indeed seem abnormal, wouldn't it?

I guess the reason why that ^^ didn't bother me one bit is I have never thought of my hair texture (which is nappy, kinky, coily) in a negative way. So it takes me a minute or two to get a derogatory reference even when it is deliberately intended. I guess I'm somewhat a snob and think I'm all that and a bag of chips and everyone else that doesn't think so is just a poor deluded fool. *shrug*

Oh ok. The connotation of the word felt as if it was an abnormality resulting from disease or disorder well... then anything can be a syndrome lol. I got Black girl want long hair syndrome.

 

[Neith]

The article is wayy too long for me to post all of it here...check it out here

http://blogs.myspace.com/stevenlai Blog Race is a touchy subject....

That's all folks! (exits thread)

The title and the first 3 lines deterred me

Um. It's REALLY better socially in Russia and China? Both countries have their merits, but are INSANELY flawed in some ways, especially when it comes to government and social relations.

Sorry, give me my good old USA with my nice freedom, democracy and capitalism any day.

Hmmm... I may go back and read the rest later. What is that about? lol

 

[jamaraa]

[........................

 

[lovenharmony]

^^^ Isn't he the guy who writes hip hop history?

I have no clue (just looked up human geneology in google and his blog showed up ) but what he has written makes absolute sense to me!

 

[BostonMaria]

So..... yeah

 

[LadyRaider]

There's no such thing as race.

 

[lovenharmony]

The title and the first 3 lines deterred me

Um. It's REALLY better socially in Russia and China? Both countries have their merits, but are INSANELY flawed in some ways, especially when it comes to government and social relations.

Sorry, give me my good old USA with my nice freedom, democracy and capitalism any day.

Hmmm... I may go back and read the rest later. What is that about? lol

Oh, I didn't even read that...I searched for his subject on race and that's where the excerpt I posted earlier came from But I got to admit...the issues of "race" in America tends to be exacerbated once the topic is brought up

 

[Neith]

Oh, I didn't even read that...I searched for his subject on race and that's where the excerpt I posted earlier came from But I got to admit...the issues of "race" in America tends to be exacerbated once the topic is brought up

Oh, okay. I was just hoping that the beginning isn't representative of the whole article. lol

 

[Cisselette]

Again I ask, what about YOUR family genetics? If you can't tell from your distaff side, what of your male relations? How often do they go to the barber and/or shave? That's revelant to YOU and your chances for long hair...not the ancient Egyptians or the Pilgrims!

On my mother's side, my grandmother, her (late) twin sister and their older sister used to have butt-length unstretched natural hair when they were in their 20's.

Which officially makes them the BW with the longest hair in the family and that I have ever met


They're Fulani, an ethnic group that you (Jamaraa) mentioned in this thread. Because we seem to have the longevity gene in my family, I know for a fact that we are 100% black/west African for at least 4 generations on both my parents sides. I actually have a famous ancestor but that's another story.


We're all from what are now two countries: Senegal /Guinea and my ancestry is divided in 4 ethnic sub-groups: Fulani- Wolof (mum) Malinke-Sussu (dad).

Ok now our hair... Maternal side: mix of 3's and 4's but mostly 4's in my direct ascendence.

My grandmother and her sister still have the longest hair in the family : MBL / natural / type 4 (I do intend to break that record though )

Then my mother: APL / relaxes once to twice a year / type 4

Me: about SL / Natural / Type 4

Sister: NL / Relaxed / Type 4

3 Maternal aunts: Type 4 / relaxed 1 NL, 2 SL.

TOO MANY cousins to list...

especially on my father's side: his father had 5 wives and about 16 still living children...

and I really don't even know how many cousins/nephews/nieces I have anymore... erplexed

What's interesting is that I have two older brothers, one is a 4a and the other is a 3b! He's the only person in my immediate family with this hair type... recessive allele maybe?

What I do know about my mother, sister and I is that we have in common a fast growth rate.

The three of us had to cut or even shaved our hair on various occasions in our lives (Chewing gum in hair, hairstyle, surgery etc...) and it grew back in NO time! The problem of course is retention...

 

[jamaraa]

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[whitedaisez]

Ok...I hear ya I was asking cuz 4 textures aren't limited to Blacks at all. Many people of Arab and various Jewish ethnicities have 4 textures. You just don't see it...they either cover it, straighten it, cut it off (in the case of Jewish women and tons of men of every background we're discussing), and relax it. 4 textures are just very much associated w/ Blacks (American definition) in the West, but 4 is not limited to Blacks nor are all Africans 4s.
Does this make sense?

Y'all wanna see a fairly typical Saudi who shows their hair? Look up Prince Bandar. Tell me he don't look like James Earl Jones!

Hair type does have to do with genetics. People of african descent have type 4b hair which is vestigial/recessive to straight hair. Almost everyone in the world now is mixed, including africans. I don't think there is anyone is who is pure black, pure white, etc.

The looser textures of african hair eg 3c, 3b, etc has to do with all the various mixing in and out of the continent.
The Saudi prince you mentioned has some considerable amount of african blood. This is due in part because of saudi arabia's close proximity to Africa and the various amount of inter-marriages going on in that area.

Arabs were the first immigrants into Africa, before the europeans. They too, took NUMEROUS amounts of slaves (Tans-Saharan slave trade) and this trading even surpassed the european Atlantic slave trade we learn at school. Mostly women were traded during this slave trade to act as concubines and courtesans for the wealthy men of the middle east.

So it is no surprise that you would find many middle-easterners with a 4a/b hair texture.
This explains why ethiopians, somalians, egyptians and various east and northeastern african countries on the Mediterranean/middle-east border are made up of mostly mulattos.
They are called AFRO-ARABS.

 

[jamaraa]

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[whitedaisez]

oh sorry Jamaraa, the first paragraph of my post was to answer the question of the person that posted the thread.
The next paragraphs were then in response to ur argument.

Cisselette, the fulani are also a mix of people, afro-arabs like the ethiopians, somalians and egyptians. Like I said, earlier, nobody is "pure" race anymore.

There have been MANY inter-marriages in Africa for ages, LONG LONG LONG before europeans started coming around 1400AD. The fulani people and many north and west africans where being mixed at the time of the invasion of Islam, perhaps during the time of Usman Dan Fodio and even way earlier on.

 

[jamaraa]

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[SND411]

oh sorry Jamaraa, the first paragraph of my post was to answer the question of the person that posted the thread.
The next paragraphs were then in response to ur argument.

Cisselette, the fulani are also a mix of people, afro-arabs like the ethiopians, somalians and egyptians. Like I said, earlier, nobody is "pure" race anymore.

There have been MANY inter-marriages in Africa for ages, LONG LONG LONG before europeans started coming around 1400AD. The fulani people and many north and west africans where being mixed at the time of the invasion of Islam, perhaps during the time of Usman Dan Fodio and even way earlier on.

This has been proven genetically to be false.

 

[Ladybelle]

isn't race determined by genetics? Just asking... and if this is correct, then would it be safe to assert that hair type is based on genetics rather than race??