Is hair texture the new paper bag test???

[LunadeMiel]

I was just about to post this. It's not that hard. 1 is straight, 2 is wavy, 3 is curly, 4a = tightest curls, 4b = fuzzy, underfined, z pattern. 3-4a are curls getting progressively smaller. Choose which one is CLOSEST to urs and keep it moving. It is not hard. How fine, coarse, medium, silky, your hair is, is irrelevant..... curl size from biggest to smallest to non existent.

 

[Kurlee]

I think the problem is that sometimes when people pinpoint a trait that society or they themselves would consider "desirable", then it's usually traced back to some ancestor that is not Black.

But what if that trait came from a Black ancestor? I mean African genes had so much diversity just by itself way before colonialism enter into the picture. Maybe we have beautiful hair because of them and not necessarily because of a European, Asian or Native influence.

I mean at least that's how some people would see it

 

[Diva_Esq]

Sometimes, I hate the hair-typing system and the divisiveness that accompanies it.

 

[LunadeMiel]

Sometimes, I hate the hair-typing system and the divisiveness that accompanies it.

See it really doesn't have to be. The issues start when people start to project their insecurities...

Team Hair typing

 

[Supervixen]

I was just about to post this. It's not that hard. 1 is straight, 2 is wavy, 3 is curly, 4a = tightest curls, 4b = fuzzy, underfined, z pattern. 3-4a are curls getting progressively smaller. Choose which one is CLOSEST to urs and keep it moving. It is not hard. How fine, coarse, medium, silky, your hair is, is irrelevant..... curl size from biggest to smallest to non existent.

I actually believe more LHCF ladies 2's and 3's than most are willing to admit.

 

[Kurlee]

Sometimes, I hate the hair-typing system and the divisiveness that accompanies it.

it only becomes divisive when people take it and run with it, overcomplicate it

 

[happylife]

On paper hair typing sounds like it would be helpful .

But on the other side of the coin, it seems only as accurate as the the person doing the assessment. is there a more concrete failsafe way we can gather the information we need for our hair? Only ask out curiousity.

 

[purplepeace79]

Yeah I'm sorry. Rosa chose to sit where she sat as part of a calculated plot to garner an arrest so the protest/boycott could begin. Others tried but werent arrested. just randomly contributing to this thread lol

I don't get it cause Rosa Parks for sure could have passed for something and even SHE had to sit on the back of the bus. Light skinned darked skinned light bright almost like white to Ebony Black didn't Black folks no matter what colour they are go through hell in America anyway. So what is the difference it Mr. Charlie was swinging you up on a tree he did not give a damn as to how light or how dark you are and the white ancestors in your family

Why should we. Are we ever going to move on from that mess. Black people did not make those rules but it is time for those rules to be squashed

 

[Kurlee]

i like hair typing, because when done right, I get to see other people who have hair similar to mine and some of their techniques and products. I have found so many staples that way.

 

[AsianAfricanPrincess]

Ah... well I'm the one that is always posting this link:

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm

So I wasn't really talking about race per se. I think I was talking more about ethnicity... because that is a geographical, social thing. We can agree to disagree. I think we are very different than African blacks. 400+ years and several generations different. And you are right to say race/ethnicity depends about 90 percent on how you choose to identify.

What made me think about all of this is Latinos. Are all Latinos the same "race?" Are the Mexicans and Brazillians and Pueto Ricans the same? It's the Latinos that really blew the lid of the idea of "race" for me.

Iraqis and Swedes are both "white." Are they the same "race?"

Thank you for making this point. This is something that I would argue most African-Americans in this day and age are unwilling to accept because we see ourselves through a lens of chroma and shame.

Regarding your comment about Iraqis and Swedes, I'm glad you pointed this out. This is something that most people don't realize, but according to US Census Bureau's standards on "race" (which are completely racist and archaic), an Iranian, an East Indian, and a German are considered the exact same "thing". It's hilarious and unbelievable all at once.

The sad thing is that someone on here mentioned there being "three races". See, this is craziness. The concept of "race" is outdated, archaic, and racist in and of itself. But AAs have latched on to that sh!t. And since we're usually the last to jump on the bandwagon, I assume it will take another few decades before we get it through our own thick skulls.

And you're right, what you mentioned about 400 years of difference in ancestry. My SO is Cameroonian and even he and his folks recognize this. My Igbo friends recognize this. However, we're so caught up in our own denials and attempts at pan-Africanism that we ourselves fail to realize it.

Few people would tell a Dominican or a Puerto Rican that they should call themselves "African". However, African Americans seem to think that sort of ignorance/blanket grouping masquerading as pan-Africanism is okay. For me, it's indicative of the lack of respect and appreciation we have for ourselves as a people.

The African diaspora is made up of many, MANY nations. Strong, proud nations who have overcome so much. I recognize all of my peeps throughout the diaspora, and I respect the differences that make each diasporic nation so awesome and unique. I enjoy recognizing our differences and our shared heritage, at the same time.

I've got to get back out of this thread because a lot of merde is being slung to and fro. I just needed to show some support for what you mentioned here.

NOTE: Even the term "ethnic" or "ethnic group" are used in confusing ways in the US...I've seen all sorts of excuses and justifications slung about for this in the past on forums, but imho, it all comes down to our ignorance as Americans. We seriously live in a freaking bubble.

 

[Mz.MoMo5235]

Excellent answer! In my own personal experience, and I'm going to be totally honest with you ladies, I am thinking of transitioning, but there are times when I see pictures of certain ladies with super kinky hair, and I'll think to myself "I don't want to be natural if my hair looks like that." Some of you may think it's ignorant or shallow of me, but I'm sorry it's the truth. I think that what CurlTalk said was right on point...my mom's hair is a 3 something and growing up I always wished that I had hair like hers and when I told her that I was thinking of going natural she disapproved because my hair would be "nappy." So perhaps that has influenced the way I feel. erplexed I'm trying to get over this and accept the way that God made me...I hate the terms "good" hair or "pretty" hair. I know that good hair is healthy hair, but old habits die hard I guess...

ok, i'm gonna be honest too... this worries me! growing up, i wanted hair like my mom (2 something) and it was discouraging being the "darkie" and the "nappy" one in the fam. luckily as i got older (and after transitioning) i learned to love my hair as well as my skin.

as i've stated before, i love 4a hair, like a lot lol. i also find darker women to be more attractive than lighter woman (i just think darker women have flawless skin, like butter. i love it!). because of all of this, i think i've purposely dated darker men with a kinkier hair patter.

i'm now in the works of getting married and we're talking kids and i'm like so excited to see what kind of coils we produce (dont know if that's weird or not lol). but i figure what ever happens, i probably wont pop out a 3b.

my concern is, my mother loved my hair (except on detangling days) but i still hated it cause it wasnt like hers.

i dont want my daughter thinking something is wrong with her cause she's not like me. especially when i'll be jealous of her fro lol

its horrible how this is soooo terribly engraved in all of us... look at all of us bickering like some old ninnies when on any other thread (to my experience) we get along.

i will admit this thread has been a fabulous read. there are so many educated women on here that can really write in a manner that i just sit there pondering and really digging deep.

but on the same note i kinda want the thread locked cause i think it has potential to go to far... i dunno, i dont write as well as some so i cant really explain what i mean. i'm taking my but back to school lol

 

[LadyRaider]

nm nmnmnm nm

 

[Kurlee]

I think the intentions of the hair typing were good (to help people determine how to take care of their hair, or what types of products would work best on their hair). However, just like any tool, if used in a negative way, the results will be devisive, which some people have noticed on this forum.

As an aside (a little off topic), I have noticed some threads have become more and more combative. I'm not sure where this animosity is coming from; I know it is difficult to keep emotions in check when discussing a topic that one cares about, but sometimes I feel like people are responding to each other as if their livelihood were at stake. This is a forum and it only works when people feel like they can state their opinion, however controversial, without being attacked. Otherwise, it will just be a board of people saying the same stuff to the same people over and over again.

That being said, we have to remember that free speech doesn't offer carte blanche to say whatever we want in any fashion we want; as an example, it's not the hair typing system itself that is divisive, it is how it is employed by some people that is devisive. In much the same way, EVERY MESSAGE can be conveyed in a non-combative, mutually respecting way and EVERY MESSAGE can be conveyed in an aggressive, hurtful way. I tend to lurk, and I must add it's not as fun reading comments where we are being nasty to one another.

Finally, I know I'm not perfect myself, so I don't mean this to be a judgemental rant. I hope it is not taken in that way, and I apologize in advance if my comment causes any offense.

ur muscles are michelle obama-esque! workout reggie plz

 

[Liege4421]

^^^^To build up, try doing sets of pull-ups twice a week...5-6 sets of 5-6...i mean real boy-pull-ups (palms facing away from you). Have a friend help you with your form because that's where most people's mistakes are. If you can't do pull ups, then try lateral pull-downs on a machine; 4-5 sets of 12-15. I also did close and wide grip lateral pull downs, and single bent over rows (all for 4-5 sets of 12-15). Be careful when working your back that you don't build it too much and don't start with too much too soon. The real reason my back muscles show is due to being lean: eat a good diet and frequent cardiovascular exercise will help back and ab muscles show a good deal more.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, OP.

 

[MrsAriannaAmbers]

I never realized hair is much deeper than whats on your head...I hear all the time...Arianna you have good hair...and I'm like what? Its soft, fine, breaking and thin...how can that be good hair? When I see them with gorgeous, thick, luscious afros, buns, and wraps....

So now that I have sat and thought about it I think it goes beyond the hair typing system and its more so what's been instilled in us as what is considered to be "good hair". The hair typing seems to be used a cover-up for folks who just want a way to be better than others and have mixed themselves in within folks who use the system genuinely to assist them with determining what products/services to use.

I think that hair typing for me personally is not going to help my HHJ as much as knowing what ingredients are in my products and what my hair does/doesn't respond to...and really I have gotten the best advice on here thus far from the archived threads....sad but true...Newbies don't want to be stoned/accused/belittled which is why we really don't ask ?'s in the open which leads back to how some people are successfully creating their own HHJ following off of LHCF...

 

[gymfreak336]

I must say that I disagree, I feel like, in order to learn or move forward with Your Healthy Hair Practices, You need Constructive Criticism, If your answers to questions are always Sugar-Coated then how will You ever know if what Your doing is working, I understand a Person may not want to be the "Meanie" here, but there is a way to say things without coming off as mean, but I do know, when I am looking for true answers, I Hope and Pray that You Ladies are being honest, or really there is no reason to even be a member here, what would be the purpose. I could look in the mirror and lie to Myself.

We can't be honest here. Start digging into some old threads and you will see that.

 

[jamaraa]

I never realized hair is much deeper than whats on your head...I hear all the time...Arianna you have good hair...and I'm like what? Its soft, fine, breaking and thin...how can that be good hair? When I see them with gorgeous, thick, luscious afros, buns, and wraps....

So now that I have sat and thought about it I think it goes beyond the hair typing system and its more so what's been instilled in us as what is considered to be "good hair". The hair typing seems to be used a cover-up for folks who just want a way to be better than others and have mixed themselves in within folks who use the system genuinely to assist them with determining what products/services to use.

I think that hair typing for me personally is not going to help my HHJ as much as knowing what ingredients are in my products and what my hair does/doesn't respond to...and really I have gotten the best advice on here thus far from the archived threads....sad but true...Newbies don't want to be stoned/accused/belittled which is why we really don't ask ?'s in the open which leads back to how some people are successfully creating their own HHJ following off of LHCF...

This is quite true about newbs. Many will hit you up in PM if they see you seem like you may know something and aren't mean! It can be overwheleming/confusing for a newb here and many times they're simply afraid to ask questions. The fact they folks are so clearly afraid to being lit up is a bad thing...very bad. Some YTers like Leobody patiently answer questions, so any wonder they get followings?

Of course this can be overwhemling to receive such requests because they can want such detailed and precise info.

The whole alleged point of hair typing it to make these things fairly self-explanatory but clearly it doesn't for many. If I judged the system by this alone, I'd say it was a failure. This is precisely why I'm not convinced of the usefulness of this stuff for practical and not descriptive purposes....it should be user friendly, but it clearly ain't. That too is another source of conflict.

 

[jamaraa]

We can't be honest here. Start digging into some old threads and you will see that.

How will people ever improve if they never get any constructive criticism? Sometimes you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet. If you get 50-11 views and 2 responses, you know something's wrong, but not necessaily what it is. The permanently wounded and hurt stance is not helpful in aquiring useful feedback. I've said something to a poster who asked for help and got jammed by a 3rd party outta the blue, so even if it's NOT the person who asked that gets upset, some random person might meltdown on ya. I don't want nobody melting down in my face, esp if I'm trynna help someone...who would?

The problem is that you always gotta walk on eggshells cuz people get their knickers in a twist about something, even if it doesn't concern them. Some women simply think everything is about them and can't mind their own biz. You don't have the right to lose it on someone...NOPE! This is not a good thing folks, it's clogging up the works for good longhair info to get thru!

 

[gymfreak336]

How will people ever improve if they never get any constructive criticism? Sometimes you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet. If you get 50-11 views and 2 responses, you know something's wrong, but not necessaily what it is. The permanently wounded and hurt stance is not helpful in aquiring useful feedback. I've said something to a poster who asked for help and got jammed by a 3rd party outta the blue, so even if it's NOT the person who asked that gets upset, some random person might meltdown on ya. I don't want nobody melting down in my face, esp if I'm trynna help someone...who would?

The problem is that you always gotta walk on eggshells cuz people get their knickers in a twist about something, even if it doesn't concern them. Some women simply think everything is about them and can't mind their own biz. You don't have the right to lose it on someone...NOPE! This is not a good thing folks, it's clogging up the works for good longhair info to get thru!

I remember a thread here about making waist length and well people who know what I thread I am talking about already know how that went down Constructive criticism is essential in any process. I wish I would have got more of it earlier on this hair thing.

 

[gymfreak336]

Just my personal opinions...

Hair typing has been helpful for me in trouble shooting my issues. Hair typing to me can be helpful if you take it for what it is. It's like body types...each one is different and has its advantages and disadvantages and you have to learn how to work within that framework to maximize what you have. When I look at this board and admire all of the lovely heads of hair, the women that become my hair idols are ones that have similar hair types to mine. I use people that are working with a similar baseline and have developed ways to reach their full potential. We tend to have similar issues so in that regard it has been nice.

In regards to hair types as a whole, I am not going to act like every hair type is viewed in the same light. It's not, I know that, and it isn't anything personal. Some characteristics are going to be placed at a higher value by society in general...happens in every culture. In this case, I don't have the hair type that gets these benefits....it is what it is. The best I can do is work with what I have and that is all I can control.

 

[jamaraa]

it doesn't count unless u "look" the part

That's the kicker. Only in America is so vast a grouping of phenotype listed as one "race". In most of the world, many of the people who "look Black" (whatever that means for the purposes of this discussion) nobody would say that they are. People's views of what Blacks look like is very much obscured by the one drop rule which grouped all people of any known African descent as "Black". The racial categories in the US are unique to the US. If what constitutes "race" is so absolute, how can so many people have different preceptions of it...why is it not a universal thing? How can you be Black in Georgia and not Black in Bahia?

One more thing folks....if you have blonde or red hair chances are you DIDN'T get this from a West African ancestor of yours. Sorry! To suggest this as a very probable explanation of where you got said trait is incredibly odd if not laughable. Sometimes the obvious answer IS the answer....denial is a mutha!

 

[AfroKink]

That's the kicker. Only in America is so vast a grouping of phenotype listed as one "race". In most of the world, many of the people who "look Black" (whatever that means for the purposes of this discussion) nobody would say that they are. People's views of what Blacks look like is very much obscured by the one drop rule which grouped all people of any known African descent as "Black". The racial categories in the US are unique to the US. If what constitutes "race" is so absolute, how can so many people have different preceptions of it...why is it not a universal thing? How can you be Black in Georgia and not Black in Bahia?

One more thing folks....if you have blonde or red hair chances are you DIDN'T get this from a West African ancestor of yours. Sorry! To suggest this as a very probable explanation of where you got said trait is incredibly odd if not laughable. Sometimes the obvious answer IS the answer....denial is a mutha!

I didn't understand this until moving to the states. I didn't understand how someone like Halle Berry, who is more white than black, can be considered 'the most beautiful black woman'. I think I've even made posts on here about it. I've sense had time to think and speak to people about it. Along these lines, I understand how people here can consider themselves to be 'black' and not like being called 'African American' let alone just 'African'. If you're only 8 tablespoon African and the whole rest of your ancestry is non-African, you are 'black' but are you 'African American'? (maybe?) 'African'? (maybe not?)

It's interesting. Learning a lot in this country

 

[Computer Blue]

Higher than 4a . It bothers me when people refer to type 3 as higher than type 4...

OMG had to thank you twice. I always think that and *sigh* and at anything else said after that.


1<2<3<4

For anyone to refer to 3,2,1 as
"higher" than 4 shows that they themselves buy into the madness as far as I am concerned. And it's a damned shame.

*exits*

 

[Kurlee]

We can't be honest here. Start digging into some old threads and you will see that.

Yup! i agree, but at the same time, many have demonstrated that they are not mature enough to be honest without being insulting or disrespectful.

 

[Kurlee]

I never realized hair is much deeper than whats on your head...I hear all the time...Arianna you have good hair...and I'm like what? Its soft, fine, breaking and thin...how can that be good hair? When I see them with gorgeous, thick, luscious afros, buns, and wraps....

So now that I have sat and thought about it I think it goes beyond the hair typing system and its more so what's been instilled in us as what is considered to be "good hair". The hair typing seems to be used a cover-up for folks who just want a way to be better than others and have mixed themselves in within folks who use the system genuinely to assist them with determining what products/services to use.

I think that hair typing for me personally is not going to help my HHJ as much as knowing what ingredients are in my products and what my hair does/doesn't respond to...and really I have gotten the best advice on here thus far from the archived threads....sad but true...Newbies don't want to be stoned/accused/belittled which is why we really don't ask ?'s in the open which leads back to how some people are successfully creating their own HHJ following off of LHCF...

good post!!

 

[SherylsTresses]

I was beginning to wonder about this. erplexed

 

[bludaydreamr]

Yep. I remember a member saying "4z hair ain't cute". Some naturals on this board still practice the good hair/bad hair thing.

I just wanted to point out, it is not just naturals. Some or even most (relaxed and natural) of us grew up with a Good/Bad hair complex. I think it was unfair to just say naturals. When the movie came out there were several threads that had good hair/ bad hair undertones, and they all weren't started by naturals.

I'm so sick of the bullsheeet thats been going on here .....*Emotional Response* I know......but I am!!!!!

we have lost so many long hairs, and long term members, and many more are signing up to bone out, all that will be left is a bunch of knuckle head know it all's tripped up on stupid ish! and that will be the forum

ITA. and I know I won't be here any more.

Excellent answer! In my own personal experience, and I'm going to be totally honest with you ladies, I am thinking of transitioning, but there are times when I see pictures of certain ladies with super kinky hair, and I'll think to myself "I don't want to be natural if my hair looks like that."

In so many words my best friend and mother said the same thing and recently. I am so glad that I didn't allow my fears, or those of other to deter me from transitioning. Reconditioning yourself is not easy, but that is why I tell people try to transition because you also go through a mental transition. HHJ

Do I have my own biases? Most certainly. But some women need to stop getting hurt over what nameless women on a forum think about your hair texture. How do you possibly live constructive lives if you're so sensitive?

In the time I have been here about 3 years I have noticed it but more so in the past year. This is a board that we should be able to draw inspiration and encouragment, but it is hard if only certain types are being encouraged or praised.

i will admit this thread has been a fabulous read. there are so many educated women on here that can really write in a manner that i just sit there pondering and really digging deep.

but on the same note i kinda want the thread locked cause i think it has potential to go to far... i dunno, i dont write as well as some so i cant really explain what i mean. i'm taking my but back to school lol

I say the same thing everyday, and appreciate the thoughts and opinions that are expressed. As one posters said there has been a lot of animosity here latey.

OP to answer your question; NO, the two have always went hand in hand. According to my Aunt, when I was little because we were darker and had kinkier hair than her children SL was my terminal length. She was a cosomotologist, so I believed her for years.

 

[robot.]

OT: Why do some keep asking why people are concerned with others' hair? Aren't we on a HAIR board? What - are we supposed to specifically AVOID discussing their hair?

 

[Leesh]

We can't be honest here. Start digging into some old threads and you will see that.

So tell Me, What is the Point of this Forum thing, For converstaion? I tell you Ladies this much, I don't need to get on a board to lollygag with folks, I truly came here for Help with My hair, and if I can't get Real Help with My hair then, Please tell Me, "What is the Point"! People just need to be conscience of the way they deliver their replies, as IRL, Your delivery makes a World of difference, depending on how You say it, Period, Yes some are blatently mean, purposely, cause I have seen it, but If I ask, believe Me I want to know!

 

[goodmorningruby]