Texture vs. Coil Pattern

For those with smooth texture, do you find that your hair will pull "straight" if pushed back into a ponytail?

Yes. Great topic OP. I just couldn't grasp this concept...i'm starting to understand now!
At the beginning of my journey I realized that a smooth cuticle helps with length retention. So that has been one of my aims all along. The products I use, the tools I use to style and the way I style my hair are all aimed at smoothing my cuticle ALWAYS.

Having fine strands and smooth cuticles it takes next to nothing to achieve reasonable str8 hair + I have ZERO curl pattern, but there is a definite kink to my hair. I'm always surprised when I release my hair because it appears so flat when contained but it's like whoa when I let it out :)
 
We were kind of talking about that in this thread
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=194371

I was thinking coil pattern is totally irrelevent.

Im starting to think that texture is created by the folice shapes of your hair, and that it gets passed down genetically, then curl pattern is created by disulfide bonds in your hair, and it gets passed down seperatly.
The rounder the folicle/hair shape
:the more your hair grows down
:the more cuticles are down (shinier/silkier/less dry)
:the less volume your hair has
:hair is less cohesive (doesnt clump up, easily runs hands through it)

The flater the folicle/hair shape
:The more your hair grows up (afro like)
:The more cuticles are raised (dry, rougher, less shiny)
:The more volume your hair has
:The more cohesive your hair is (clumps together, harder to comb)


Then you go on to have
:curly, wavy or straight hair which i belive is created by disulfide bonds alone-
:fine, medium or coarse hair
:ect.

That would explain why a black women and chinese women could both have coarse straight hair
But one's is cottony, grows up, clumps/fuses together (is harder to comb), has lots of volume ect
And the others is silky, grows down, each hair is more seperate, and is limp.

That would explain why 2 black people could have the same curl pattern, but one has silky hair and the other cottony.
 
Yes, I absolutely think there is a difference in what you can do. For example, my niece and I have a very similar curl pattern...3b/3c. However, her texture is much more silky than mine (probably b/c she is bi-racial) and mine feels a little rougher. She doesn't have to do all of the smoothing and scarf tricks that I do for smooth hair. Hers just lays on down and is super glossy.
 
FlowerHair said:
My hair will pull straight very easily in a ponytail, even though it's coarse. But I usually put a scarf around it :yep:
Click to expand...

I would have thought your hair was silkier or softer (or at least medium) from the pics. It doesn't look "rough" to me at all. Your hair reminds me of Gelila's (model) hair. Except yours is longer:yep:
l_a7a8a16dcc045dbf34a08b2b399ae403.jpg

l_e8b104e23f07e9c5540e778405a8ac2b.jpg
 
shorthairforever said:
When I had natural, it was sooooo difficult making a ponytail! :pullhair:

OT: Y'all have helped me figure out my TRUE texture. I'm a thick 4B(no A:nono:) with coarse strands. My curls are not defined AT ALL or wispy! They're rough (or coarse I guess) and undefined. This is really interesting.
Click to expand...

I think your hair would be coarse only if it has that brittle feel when you touch it.

Basically, this thread is saying that you can be 4b (because of your tiny coil pattern), but really have the stereotypical silkiness usually associated with a type 1 or 2!
 
discodumpling said:
For those with smooth texture, do you find that your hair will pull "straight" if pushed back into a ponytail?

Yes. Great topic OP. I just couldn't grasp this concept...i'm starting to understand now!
At the beginning of my journey I realized that a smooth cuticle helps with length retention. So that has been one of my aims all along. The products I use, the tools I use to style and the way I style my hair are all aimed at smoothing my cuticle ALWAYS.

Having fine strands and smooth cuticles it takes next to nothing to achieve reasonable str8 hair + I have ZERO curl pattern, but there is a definite kink to my hair. I'm always surprised when I release my hair because it appears so flat when contained but it's like whoa when I let it out :)
Click to expand...

Would you mind sharing some of the products and tools you use to achieve a smooth cuticle. I'm like a sponge in this thread trying to soak everything up! As I transition, I want to do what's best for my hair, and not lose unecessary hair over ignorance:nono:
 
:yep: :yep:

This is a fabulous thread!!

I too have that hair that looks CRAZY coily and coarse from a distance, but goes flat/straight if I give it a dirty look... :lol: but will tangle right back up as soon as I turn my back... I also have very fine strands - fine, but wiry - and the better I've taken care of my hair (henna, staying UP on moisture, etc) the 'smoother/silkier' AND 'wavier' my hair has gotten. Of course, with the henna, it could just be making my cuticles 'flatter', and thus the increased silkiness and shine....

If my hair was long enough to pull back into a ponytail (I have a big head), my front/crown area would look like smooth waves just from the 'stretch' of the ponytail - but would puff up like the Stay-Puft dude if I let it loose. After having my hair 'bound' up for two weeks, sometimes I'm startled by how BIG it gets...


*sigh* I really need to work on getting pictures of my amazing ever changing texture.
 
cocoberry10 said:
Would you mind sharing some of the products and tools you use to achieve a smooth cuticle. I'm like a sponge in this thread trying to soak everything up! As I transition, I want to do what's best for my hair, and not lose unecessary hair over ignorance:nono:
Click to expand...

Basic hair care like wide toothed seamless combs, high quality accessories that don't knick, pull or tug at the hair.

Product wise I probably use much of the same products that everyone else here uses. ie. shea butter, henna,various oils, LOT's of conditioner, SAA, fresh fruit(just off the top of my head). I've learned to open my cuticle with warm water or indirect heat (hooded dryer) to fill it with whatever concoction I can come up with from the items above. I then seal it ALWAYS with cool to cold water rinses and more often than not a freezing cold ACV rinse to begin closing the cuticle.

More sealing and smoothing happens as I add oil or butter or aloe gel (whatever my hair is asking for)to "catch" the water in my soaking hair and section (seamless comb)for styling (now that it's growing a bit).

When braiding (& now roller setting) I use my fingertips to smooth again from root to tip.

Vitamins like MSM also seem to work for producing smoother hair. My theory there is that the extra MSM actually changes the shape of our naturally curved hair follicles. I'm curious about long term use but I fell off a long time ago. LOL

:yawn: :lachen:I've really thought too much about this stuff!
 
This is really a great thread; thanks for starting it, cocoberry. I think that for a long time, I thought that people weren't 4B because their hair didn't look like mine - almost undefined curls, and coarse. But now I am finally understanding that the thickness of the strand does not determine the coil. I happen to have coarse, 4B hair, and it's the coarseness of my hair (coupled, I guess, by being 4B) that's responsible for why my hair acts the way it does. My hair is very coarse. The strands are quite thick, and there are many of them. So for those of you with coarse hair, I want to know: what are some strategies for straightening your hair and maintaining that over time?

I don't remember who said it (maybe it was you, Discodumpling?) about Ayurvedic products helping? That makes me want to try some! :yep:
 
cocoberry10 said:
I think your hair would be coarse only if it has that brittle feel when you touch it.

Basically, this thread is saying that you can be 4b (because of your tiny coil pattern), but really have the stereotypical silkiness usually associated with a type 1 or 2!
Click to expand...

I always thought that was 4A. 4B really doesn't have a coil. If I am wrong, please correct me people.

When natural my hair is brittle. I know it wasn't silky or smooth at all. I still miss it every now and then.

Perhaps y'all will understand my hair better when I post my CUTE baby pics! I have to learn how to work that scanner, though! My hair was so thick and curly (no coils, just afro). The afro really wasn't soft either. Luckily, I've maintained that thickness with my relaxed hair.
 
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cocoberry10 said:
For those with smooth texture, do you find that your hair will pull "straight" if pushed back into a ponytail?
Click to expand...
I don't know if I have a smooth texture or not but my hair pulls straight when pulled back. I'm always envious of people with those pretty waves.
 
cocoberry10 said:
I would have thought your hair was silkier or softer (or at least medium) from the pics. It doesn't look "rough" to me at all. Your hair reminds me of Gelila's (model) hair. Except yours is longer:yep:
Click to expand...

It looks soft, but it feels coarse LOL! :grin:
I have managed to put the right amount of butters and oils in my hair to make it softer, the oils need to get to the hair before it's dry to flatten the cuticles.
 
cocoberry10 said:
For those with smooth texture, do you find that your hair will pull "straight" if pushed back into a ponytail?
Click to expand...

I'll have waves if I pull it back. My curls won't be totally gone but they do stretch out a lot. When I take it down after it's dry the hair on top will be almost straight. The hair in the middle never really dries all the way and stays shrunken. I usually take it down at night so that section gets a chance to dry if I plan on wearing a bun or pony for more than one day.

ETA: I don't use a scarf to smooth my hair either. The gel is enough. And gel on wet hair works the best. I just smooth some gel on, brush it back and go.
 
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FlowerHair said:
It looks soft, but it feels coarse LOL! :grin:
I have managed to put the right amount of butters and oils in my hair to make it softer, the oils need to get to the hair before it's dry to flatten the cuticles.
Click to expand...

This might explain why some people's hair needs oils, butter or grease and others don't. I don't use any of those on my hair and it stays soft. I stopped using them when I was relaxed and my hair acted better.
 
Funny thing. My hair naturally is very coily and very fine. Like cat fur fine. Thats what we call it. Its gorgeous wet but let it dry with no product :ohwell: Youve got yourself into some serious:blush:
 
cubanit said:
Funny thing. My hair naturally is very coily and very fine. Like cat fur fine. Thats what we call it. Its gorgeous wet but let it dry with no product :ohwell: Youve got yourself into some serious:blush:
Click to expand...

LOL @ cat fur fine :grin:
I know exactly what you mean! I think fine hair has more shrinkage because it's so light. I love silky soft hair :)
 
shorthairforever said:
I always thought that was 4A. 4B really doesn't have a coil. If I am wrong, please correct me people.

When natural my hair is brittle. I know it wasn't silky or smooth at all. I still miss it every now and then.

Perhaps y'all will understand my hair better when I post my CUTE baby pics! I have to learn how to work that scanner, though! My hair was so thick and curly (no coils, just afro). The afro really wasn't soft either. Luckily, I've maintained that thickness with my relaxed hair.
Click to expand...

4b doesn't have a coil. It has a zigzag pattern.

4a Hair (From Andre's Book)
type4b.jpg


Type 4b Hair
cnap2.JPG
 
Great post Coco. I think this is one of the main reasons that 3c coarse and 4a fine hair is hard to distinguish at times. I'm still learning about my hair as I transition but it is definately VERY fine, soft, and wiry. My nape area is completely natural and it takes very little heat to get it straight. My hair appears to resemble Emmanuela's hair a great deal.
 
I can only coax my hair smooth with a brush and water and quickly put a scrunchie on it. Smoothness just doesn't last on my hair unless I use heat to straiten.
 
Pokahontas said:
I don't know if I have a smooth texture or not but my hair pulls straight when pulled back. I'm always envious of people with those pretty waves.
Click to expand...

Girl!...What are you talking about???? You have gorgeous waves in your siggy. I don't care how they were made. They are still TOO cute. :yep:
 
This is a great thread. Judging from that 4a picture that's what my hair looks like, but it is fine and very soft, and when permed it gets straight and silky smooth.

BUT, when I'm in need of a perm and I wet my hair and let it air dry? I can't even get a comb down to the scalp. I call it the afro perm, cuz I have a perm sitting on top of a little afro!
 
Pokahontas said:
I don't know if I have a smooth texture or not but my hair pulls straight when pulled back. I'm always envious of people with those pretty waves.
Click to expand...
Same here; I always wonder how they get those waves. :ohwell:

I just smooth my hairline with a BBB and never use gel or a scarf.
 
shorthairforever said:
Consider reading this if you haven't already.

http://homepage.mac.com/annsofie.henriksson/hairtyping/Personal27.html

It elaborates on textures. It might be helpful to you. :grin:
Click to expand...

Yes, this site is really good. The author is Swedish :D (I just had to say that LOL)

My hair is definately coarse and I can hear it when I roll it between my fingers :yep:

I looked at my hair once in a microscope at my mother's job (lab). Compared to my mom's hair, my hair looked like a tree trunk and hers like a little branch. :eek:

I wonder if frizz is connected to coarse hair?
 
Great thread. I have fine hair. I can make a puff with just water, but I don't have waves. My hair pulls straight-ish (it always has a nice kink to it).

Lys
 
FlowerHair said:
Yes, this site is really good. The author is Swedish :D (I just had to say that LOL)

My hair is definately coarse and I can hear it when I roll it between my fingers :yep:

I looked at my hair once in a microscope at my mother's job (lab). Compared to my mom's hair, my hair looked like a tree trunk and hers like a little branch. :eek:

I wonder if frizz is connected to coarse hair?
Click to expand...


Oh im waiting untill we pull the microscopes out in class :lick: I dont know what their going to be doing, but im looking at my hair. Oh yes.


But anybody can have frizz hair from what i've read. Moisture weighs hair down, and frizzy hair is drys which allows it to fly all over the place. Coarser hair probally gets it easier since it has a tendacy to be dry.
Your hair doesnt look coarse at all though---what do you use on it again? ---did you say you oil it while it was still wet and wash every 2 weeks?
 
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