Is 4b hair DESIGNED to be SHORT?

[fluffylocks]

Alot of times when things are different, they have different purposes, functions, and needs.

I dont think the function of 4 hair is to be short, since it grows at the same rate as normal, and can reach the same lengths as any other-

But I do think it has different needs. And if you just take care of it, use common sence, and work with it, without thinking you have a disadvantage (because that assumes straighter hair is the advantage IMO) everything will be okay.

Because if you dont think straight hair is an advantage, and hair is hair just some are different, you can just say that because of the differences, each one can and cant do different things well or easily.

 

[anon123]

Maybe. I think our hair, when it's loose, is so much more reasonably managed when it's short. This is true for all hair types, but I think it's especially true for 4b. That doesn't mean 4b hair can't get long, but it does mean it typically doesn't get as long as other types without putting in considerably more effort. And even then, still not as long. I've come to realize that this is not a deficit. It is a neutral characteristic, and it's only our cultural values that have turned it into a deficit.

 

[Ms Lala]

I think if it were meant to be short the terminal length would be shorter. Like hair on certain parts of the body are meant to be short and have a short terminal length. I think every hair type has it positives and its challenges. It's just a matter of learning what works for your hair.

 

[bebee10]

op this is a really good question because i wondered about it for the loooongest time. everyone i see people with looser textured hair they always seems to have less trouble with dealing with their hair and can just let it hang where as with my hair at first it wouldn't hang and would draw up and look like a twa at the first sign of moisture. but keep in mind that there may be different kinds of 4b. meaning that now that my hair is getting longer is now hangs a little instead of stick out (my hair is now a little past shoulder length) but it still draws up just not all the way and i still have mostly 4b hair. I think it could be the weight of the hair. Nonie made an excellant example with sera and you can see her fotki page at www.fotki.com/sera25 and www.fotki.com/sera252
she is def a 4b natural and in one of her albums she shows how much shrinkage she gets even though her hair is almost waistlength and its alot. another 4b natural (if i'm not mistaken) is Kimmay http://www.youtube.com/user/kimmaytube
her hair just hangs and she doesn't have any visible curls in her hair when it's dry or wet.

 

[Prettyeyes]

NOPE, it's not designed to be short, it just wants to be treated a certain way like all hair.

 

[anon123]

Y'all, Sera said she takes up to 6 hours to detangle her hair. I'm just saying, even look at the favorite example. Is 6 hours of detangling what we're meant to do? I mean, humans style their hair, so who knows what it's "meant" to do. We do what we want to do to it whether it's "meant" to be or not. But just speaking for myself, I think my hair is meant to be locked or kept cut really short. Braids take a gazillion years to do, cornrows are painful, and twists take a long time and still tangle. Of course I can do these things, but every time I do any of them, I always feel that I am fighting my hair.

 

[Yen Oak]

^^^ I understand exactly what you're saying, Mwedzi.

As my hair grows out of the TWA stage, I'm wondering if APL, BSL, or MBL is truly in the cards for me. My hair is thick, kinky, with some random tight spirals in the top. Also, as someone who exercises on a regular basis and sweats like whoa, I'm not sure a goal of really long hair is reasonable.

I may be setting myself up for disappointment. But I do appreciate you and Nonie for being great examples of the possibilities of 4B hair.

 

[greight]

Y'all, Sera said she takes up to 6 hours to detangle her hair. I'm just saying, even look at the favorite example. Is 6 hours of detangling what we're meant to do? I mean, humans style their hair, so who knows what it's "meant" to do. We do what we want to do to it whether it's "meant" to be or not. But just speaking for myself, I think my hair is meant to be locked or kept cut really short. Braids take a gazillion years to do, cornrows are painful, and twists take a long time and still tangle. Of course I can do these things, but every time I do any of them, I always feel that I am fighting my hair.

See, that's what I've been thinking about.

I try to rationalize the time I consume just plain ol' washing/conditioning my hair on the weekend by saying that I save myself a half an hour each day from washing/conditioning it if I was a 1, 2, or even 3 type.

But still... I just don't like the fact that I'm doing my hair for such a long time and I have to treat each strand as if it will fall apart (or tangle ) if I so much sneeze/look at it.

I do want long hair, and that is what I'll try to go for, but I don't know if I'd ever go 6 hours deep on detangling alone .

 

[Miss_C]

If 4B hair were meant to be short, little black girls would never have long hair, and lots of them do. Lots of ladies here have had long 4B hair in the past. I think the problem comes society influences, like having to have your hair "popped" just to go to the mailbox. If we all just put our hair in those 2-6 braids like we did as little girls (props to SimJam for the cute pic), we'd all have hair down our backs.
But keep up the care of your hair, and you'll def see results. Can you braid it up and leave it alone except to moisturize?

 

[Nonie]

Well, I have never had hair as long as you, Mwedzi, or Sera, but when I get there, I plan on giving up extension braids coz $210 on 28"-30" inch hair (2 packs) is about all I'm willing to spend on extension hair and that gives me just 14-inch braids. So when my hair is 14+, I don't think extensions will make any sense if they are the same length as my hair.

At that point, I'll let you know if I have to detangle the way you all do. Before putting my extensions in, I had worn my hair out and in twists and again, never had to detangle. My hair was only shoulder-length so maybe I am a bit delusional coz I just haven't seen anything yet.

Anyway, I promise to let you all know how that goes.

I'd love to know how long it takes Yassylane and Sonce to detangle. I just find it hard to believe that there are only a handful of us who don't deal with tangles enough for them to be worth writing home about.

ETA: I just re-read Yassylane's regimen and she doesn't have long detangling sessions and she has long hair. Which is what I expect will be my story when I get to where she is, coz I don't see why my hair would suddenly start tangling. But notice one thing she doesn't do: she doesn't use leave-in products. I wonder if they aren't the main problem here. All these "fancy" things that were probably never meant to be left in our hair. Maybe they are the source of all our gloom; maybe they glue hair together? (Now don't throw away your tried-and-true leave-in products then blame me when your hair falls out coz I shall totally deny I had anything to do with it and say the Easter bunny made me type that. But it is something to consider.)

 

[SimJam]

this thread is splendid. taking notes and subbing

 

[anon123]

Well, I have never had hair as long as you, Mwedzi, or Sera, but when I get there, I plan on giving up extension braids coz $200 is about all I'm willing to spend on extension hair and that gives me just 14-inch braids. So when my hair is 14+, I don't think extensions will make any sense if they are the same length as my hair.

At that point, I'll let you know if it I have to detangle the way you all do. Before putting my extensions in, I had worn my hair out and in twists and again, never had to detangle. My hair was only shoulder-length so maybe I am a bit delusional coz I just haven't seen anything yet.

Anyway, I promise to let you all know how that goes.

I'd love to know how long it takes Yassylane and Sonce to detangle. I just find it hard to believe that there are only a handful of us who don't deal with tangles enough for them to be worth writing home about.

Do let us know how it goes. I am glad you don't have to detangle. It just goes to show not every head of 4b is the same, so I'm glad you give your input on what works for you. I'm sure you will continue to be at peace with your hair, which is wonderful. You do spend a lot of time braiding and twisting, though. I know you enjoy playing in your hair. I admit that I lack the patience. My detangling has gotten faster, though, and it is now faster than it would take me to braid or twist. I use a brush almost every time now.

btw Yassy is not a 4b. This is her freshly washed hair. I would like to hear about Sonce, though. What ever happened to her fotki? Well, I shouldn't talk. I'm about to lock or delete mine, too. I think a good question is not how long it takes to detangle, but how long it takes to do your hair. Everything, not just detangling.

Density also plays into it. Imagine a Q-tip with 50 kinked up cotton strands on it. Imagine how it tangles. Now imagine the same Q-tip with 100 strands on it. Imagine how it tangles. Not merely twice as much, but exponentially more so.

Really, there are not that many long 4bs. And I guess my definition of long might be being skewed because I also visit longhaircommunity, full of white and Asian women. APL hair is not long in that sense, for people expressly trying to grow it out. Even that link floating around of bsl+ 4bs has 1/4 links not working, 1/2 links not 4b, and 1/5 not bsl.

Anyway, I can only speak for myself.

 

[Loveygram]

Thanx OP for a Great thread.

 

[Nonie]

Do let us know how it goes. I am glad you don't have to detangle. It just goes to show not every head of 4b is the same, so I'm glad you give your input on what works for you. I'm sure you will continue to be at peace with your hair, which is wonderful. You do spend a lot of time braiding and twisting, though. I know you enjoy playing in your hair. I admit that I lack the patience. My detangling has gotten faster, though, and it is now faster than it would take me to braid or twist. I use a brush almost every time now.

btw Yassy is not a 4b. This is her freshly washed hair. I would like to hear about Sonce, though. What ever happened to her fotki? Well, I shouldn't talk. I'm about to lock or delete mine, too. I think a good question is not how long it takes to detangle, but how long it takes to do your hair. Everything, not just detangling.

Density also plays into it. Imagine a Q-tip with 50 kinked up cotton strands on it. Imagine how it tangles. Now imagine the same Q-tip with 100 strands on it. Imagine how it tangles. Not merely twice as much, but exponentially more so.

Really, there are not that many long 4bs. And I guess my definition of long might be being skewed because I also visit longhaircommunity, full of white and Asian women. APL hair is not long in that sense, for people expressly trying to grow it out. Even that link floating around of bsl+ 4bs has 1/4 links not working, 1/2 links not 4b, and 1/5 not bsl.

Anyway, I can only speak for myself.

Mwedzi, I see 4A/B hair in Yassylane. I don't see totally 4A. Also remember she washes her hair in plaits so is that hair taken out of plaits?

And granted I spend a lot of time braiding but 10 hours once in a year and a half and about one hour per week which includes two washes, condition/DC, ACV rinse and the times I redo one braid at a time...coz I never work on many braids a day. Not when I need my fingers to type long-*** posts.

When I wore my hair out, my wash may have taken a lot longer than it does now coz I combed and rebraided during each step but there was no detangling sessions then, and my daily puffs took minutes to create coz I undid braids, combed hair out, put on elastic, done. Evening involved putting hair in braids, baggying done. Maybe if I had not been combing but just doing braid-outs, I'd have retained more then.

My strands are very find and dense, so I know it's not coz I have strong Amazon hair that this regimen works.

I'm curious to see what my hair looks like if I wash it in braids and undo the braids before it's fully dry....

 

[alive]

Maybe. I think our hair, when it's loose, is so much more reasonably managed when it's short. This is true for all hair types, but I think it's especially true for 4b. That doesn't mean 4b hair can't get long, but it does mean it typically doesn't get as long as other types without putting in considerably more effort. And even then, still not as long. I've come to realize that this is not a deficit. It is a neutral characteristic, and it's only our cultural values that have turned it into a deficit.

I was hoping you'll come chime in especially since someone referenced you as a 4b with long hair I really appreciate how analytical and straightforward your posts tend to be.

Y'all, Sera said she takes up to 6 hours to detangle her hair. I'm just saying, even look at the favorite example. Is 6 hours of detangling what we're meant to do? for myself, I think my hair is meant to be locked or kept cut really short. Braids take a gazillion years to do, cornrows are painful, and twists take a long time and still tangle. Of course I can do these things, but every time I do any of them, I always feel that I am fighting my hair.

I wonder the same thing, mwedzi. are we really supposed to spend that much time on our hair to achieve length if it comes naturally for our hair type? based on the responses so far, i am inclined to think that the answer is no but our hair might not be to blame. it just might be the case that we need to figure out simpler ways of achieving the same goal.

In that sense, I think Nonie is a pioneer on this board, and I am really looking forward to seeing her progress in a couple more months. she's the only 4b i've heard of that's had the courage to go cold turkey on products lol

 

[ebonylocs]

I agree with OP and mwedzi on this. In the past I grew out my 4b natural hair to BSL / MBL in about 3 yrs, but it took nearly constant protective styling and multiple-hour detangling sessions as I treated my hair like fragile silk. Most of the time I had my hair in twists or extensions and just left it alone, except for fortnightly washing & conditioning and nearly daily moisturising / baggying the ends. That worked because I was a student and appearances didn't matter much. But the marathon fortnightly detangling sessions were a pain in the ***, so was the fact that I couldn't wear my hair out without tangles and jepordizing my length, and because of shrinkage, I didn't know how long it was until I relaxed it.

Now, I am not willing to spend all that time on my hair. First I texlaxed because I wasn't ready to let go of texture, and now after a year of no 'laxing at all, I am ready to go fully straight. I love the look and feel of natural 4b hair, but I can't deal with the tangles right now. The tangling and fragility that are characteristic of my hair type are preventing me from retaining like I would like. I figure I can't get rid of the fragility - might as well reduce the tangles - might actually help me retain better if it doesn't add too much to the fragility.

And no, no one is talking about a "deficit". Like Mwedzi said, it's just a neutral characteristic of my hair. Calling it a deficit would mean there is something innately good / superior about long hair, and I don't believe that is the case. And yes, theoretically, the strands of my 4b natural hair could grow to tailbone length *if* I did nothing to break them. But it is the lengths I would have to go to to *not* break them that are at issue here.

 

[alive]

Those of us privileged to have this hair type (and yes, I truly do mean privileged) have to fight against internalizing the notion that our hair operates at some type of deficit compared to our looser-textured sistren.

couldn't possibly agree more

I dont think the function of 4 hair is to be short, since it grows at the same rate as normal, and can reach the same lengths as any other-

i think you bring up a very valid point that I hadn't really considered. if it were designed to be short, i would probably simply stop growing at a certain length instead of going through the trouble of knotting up, drying out and breaking. This thread is giving me a KISS itch. I'm feeling ready for a Type 4 Keep It Simple Sister (KISS) Challenge.

ETA: I just re-read Yassylane's regimen and she doesn't have long detangling sessions and she has long hair.

based on her fotki, her freshly washed hair looks nothing like mine. are you sure she's a 4b? is she heat trained?

ETA: just saw your post above. not sure what her hair type is but im no pro at hair typing either lol

 

[Nonie]

based on her fotki, her freshly washed hair looks nothing like mine. are you sure she's a 4b? is she heat trained?

ETA: just saw your post above. not sure what her hair type is but im no pro at hair typing either lol

I didn't say she's 4B. I've always thought she was 4A/B. I wish I knew whether her hair was wet or dry in that pic.

I also wonder whether the weight of her hair wouldn't give it some hang. She doesn't get the definition I expect for 4A.

 

[virtuenow]

I don't know if its designed to be short, but I'm very discouraged right now. I haven't been on here in months- it seems- for that reason exactly. Feels like I'm fighting a [losing] battle w/my 4b hair sometimes.

 

[knt1229]

Deleted.......

 

[Platinum]

Great thread! A special thanks to Nonie and Mwedzi for their input!

 

[happyjourney]

EXCELLENT discussion. Best thread I've seen on this forum (not just the "hair care" forum- the best in general) in a long time...Thanks for this...subbing

 

[saharazaramorocco]

I second that - this is a great thread.

 

[justicefighter1913]

subbing! Good thread.

 

[wednesday]

hmmmm, in a way i guess it IS designed to be short..or at least to LOOK short. I know 4bs and cnapps with mid back length hair and MAJOR shrinkage. Yes their hair is "long" but it still looks very short. I think that is something i had to make peace with. Even when i do reach my hair length goals as a 4c i'm never gonna have naturally long looking hair :-/

 

[AimWard]

So my question is,

is type 4 hair SHORT by DESIGN?

I really want to hear your thoughts on this in case I’m missing something

my answer is nope. If you are talking about hair flowing down the back, that ain't gonna happen with natural 4b hair, but if your talking about a BA gravity defying afro, I think there are no limits. Why? Just look at our male counter parts. Every day I see plenty of 4b males walking around with BAAs. I know a few males who have 4b hair and went from shiny Montel bald to an Erykah Badu fro in a little over a year. And how did these males manage this? They do absolutely nothing to their hair. Simply wash, condition, maybe pick it out and occasionally get braids. That's it. We as women do too much to our hair.

 

[wednesday]

I don't know if its designed to be short, but I'm very discouraged right now. I haven't been on here in months- it seems- for that reason exactly. Feels like I'm fighting a [losing] battle w/my 4b hair sometimes.

i feel the same way you hair is BEAUTIFUL though

 

[Missjae09]

I too am a 4a/b and I definitely don't think that my/our hair is short by "design". I know that my hair can grow... but I've learned that having 4a/b hair means that I have to put more effort into making sure that my hair stays moisturized to retain length.

I agree with all the things OP said about it tangling easily and being dry. I also feel that my hair does better when its stretched with a braid or twist outs or roller sets. Wash and go's leave me with a tangled mess.

 

[Missjae09]

I don't know how old the pic in your siggy is but if that hair is the picture of a "losing" battle... I'm READY TO START MY LOSING BATTLE TOO!

girl I'm not sure what your goal is, but your hair is beautiful!

I don't know if its designed to be short, but I'm very discouraged right now. I haven't been on here in months- it seems- for that reason exactly. Feels like I'm fighting a [losing] battle w/my 4b hair sometimes.

 

[ActionActress]

May I introduce you to our beloved Sera. She has type 4B hair that obviously isn't meant to be short: http://www.youtube.com/sera2544

ETA: I do not think Western influences are why we grow 4B hair long. If you ever read the book Hair Story you will discover what a glory African hair was, how elaborately it was worn long, and how proud Africans were to show it off, way before white folks intruded on their land. It may also help you understand why it is that slaves were so ashamed of their 4B hair. They had never in all their lives worn it un-groomed and here they were with no combs and no time to tend to it. So they wore scarves or shaved it off, because they were used to having long hair, but not long hair that was unkempt. 4B hair got a bad rap not because it's the worst kind of hair there is, but because it was hair that those who had it were used to wearing it in smart dos, but found themselves w/o tools to do so, and it brought shame to not work it like they were able to back in their homeland.

If you scroll down the first pages of Hair Story to page 2, you will see one hairstyle from back in the day: http://www.amazon.com/Hair-Story-Un...=UTF8&qid=1281972818&sr=1-1#reader_0312283229 which isn't short. And there are more images in the book.

Nonie I love you!! You see what happens when we forget about our own beauty? And lose knowledge of self?

AA--thumbs up for this one.