Is 4b hair DESIGNED to be SHORT?

[SimJam]

Left in its natural state,
1. it tangles incredibly easily leading to breakage
2. it is on the drier end of the spectrum
3. cuticles need help to stay down
4. it shrinks, giving the appearance of short hair
5. it’s the most fragile hair type

So my question is,

is type 4 hair SHORT by DESIGN?

I really want to hear your thoughts on this in case I’m missing something

Perhaps a better statement would be 4B hair is designed to stay shrunken.

I think nonie has hit the nail on the head re:the appropriate wording of the question.

that being said, I believe everyones hair needs to be groomed and maintained in some way, now how we do that I guess is the crux of the matter

 

[Tiye]

I'm liking the responses

I wonder what our big lips and wide/flat noses are for? hmmm...??? Anybody wanna take a stab at it? I'm curious.....(or I could just google it )

Since many geneticists and evolutionary scientists have tried and failed to come up with coherent answers for centuries I doubt that the code will be cracked on a hair board. And please don't google it - you'll just get nonsense. But feel free to do make it a full out research project using academic sources and don't post it here for free - publish it and get yourself a good faculty job someplace.

No hair TYPE is designed to be short. However, certain people's hair is designed to be short simply because of genetics. All of us have terminal length. That is the length we just stop growing and cannot go past because of our genes. Many people try to prove this by saying things like "well if your mom and dad and everyone in your family has short hair, most likely you'll have short hair too that can't grow long" which is silly since perhaps they're just ignorant about how to retain and maintain. If majority of people in your family have short hair that does not mean you are destined for it. The only way to find out would be taking a genetics test.

IA

I see a lot of people are missing the original poster's point. She never said that 4b hair doesn't grow and she never said that it was impossible for 4b to retain length. She didn't mention anything about terminal length either.

She posed this question: "I love my hair in its natural state but the longer it gets, the more I wonder whether I am fighting against nature."

"Nature" encompasses the question of terminal length so I don't think the response was off point.

Mine was a bit off point coz I scan and if I'm hear I'm usually multitasking - however upon reread OP seems to assume that there are other hair types who don't have to do anything with their hair and it just grows or something - this is not true of any hair type. This is not fighting nature - it's just a care routine just like washing and moisturizing your skin or brushing and flossing your teeth (assuming you don't think these things are fighting nature as well).

 

[alive]

Not true. There are enough people with locs who don't do ish to their hair. Perhaps a better statement would be 4B hair is designed to stay shrunken.

Nonie, I'm green with envy that you don't detangle. i don't understand how that's possible do you have your regimen posted somewhere?

quick question: Would a wash and grow afro eventually form free form locks if left unmanipulated?

i cannot even fathom what this would look like. i hope someone here can chime in (preferably with pictures) lol

You guys are both right ..It is meant to be left alone.. Its funny how loc'd naturals don't have issues with breakage etc. that loose naturals do.. Maybe our hair is meant to be loc'd?

a lot of people seem to think so. personally, i like having a wide spectrum of styling options so i don't see myself allowing my hair to lock whether it wants to or not haha

 

[Nonie]

are you talking about free form locks because retwisting locks at the root count as manipulation that aids in retention.

quick question: Would a wash and grow afro eventually form free form locks if left unmanipulated?

Yes I am which is why I said they don't do ish to their locs. And I do believe that if you do nothing to 4B hair it will lock on its own.

I'm pretty sure this dude wasn't doing ish to his hair:

Between 1952 and 1960, a group of ant-colonial rule Kenyans known as the Mau Mau fought against British rule and got us our independence. One identifying factor was their unkempt hair or locs. I'd assume a lot of their hair just locked on its own because I'm sure good grooming was not in their radar. Here's a pic or two:

And you can sorta see this identifying factor of locked hair in this statue made in their memory: http://www.naturalhairjourney.com/blog/2009/09/mau-mau-statue-from-kenya.html


Here's another example of hair that locked on it own from having nothing done to it:

 

[alive]

upon reread OP seems to assume that there are other hair types who don't have to do anything with their hair and it just grows or something - this is not true of any hair type. This is not fighting nature - it's just a care routine just like washing and moisturizing your skin or brushing and flossing your teeth [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

Uhmmm, that’s not really what I meant but now that I think about it, I do think that there are some hair types that pretty much do nothing and retain more length than 4bers.
For example, some hair types thrive on a simple wash and condition type regimen. Finito. that’s literally all they have to do to keep their growth.

Compared to washing in sections, deep conditioning, detangling, moisturizing, and avoiding SSKs, that is nothing to me. However, as Nonie is helping us all understand, it is possible that some of us think that our hair is more work simply because we have not learned about the easier techniques of growing our hair types long (which is why im itching for her to come back and explain how on earth she doesn't have to confront tangles).

I completely agree that everybody has to groom their hair however, as it stands, some grooming is easier than others which makes me ask the question “why?” If we discover that there are comparatively easy ways to retain length in 4b hair, then i think it will be clear that the basic structure of our hair is actually not an impediment to length retention. Otherwise, the question is still wide open

I hope this provides some more context around the question

 

[Nonie]

Uhmmm, that’s not really what I meant but now that I think about it, I do think that there are some hair types that pretty much do nothing and retain more length than 4bers.

For example, most of my friends from Asian countries simply wash and condition. Finito. that’s literally all they have to do to keep their growth.

Compared to washing in sections, deep conditioning, detangling, moisturizing, and avoiding SSKs, that is nothing to me.

I completely agree that everybody has to groom their hair, however, some grooming is easier than others which makes me ask the question “why?”

I hope this provides some more context around the question

I think the problem is type 4's have been brainwashed to think they have to do all of that to grow hair long, when really they don't.

Have you see Yassylane's regimen? It is wash, condition, braid, unbraid, the end.

Do you know what she doesn't do? She doesn't pre-poo, then poo, then post poo , daily cowash, henna, DC, apply leave-in or moisturizer or any of the homemade concoctions y'all do or take tons of vitamins. And she's type 4A/B. And her hair is flourishing. See for yourself: http://public.fotki.com/yassylane/type4hair/

Do you know who else doesn't spend a lot of time on her hair? Me. Yes, putting in braids does take a while, but if I didn't enjoy playing in my hair, I'd not do it. So it's a joy to put braids in my hair. Once that's done, I just shampoo, condition, ACV rinse. And then I echo Yassylane's don'ts (except I do DC only coz it made sense to me to do so and I love any excuse to wash my hair). The end.

So that's two type 4 folks not doing much to their hair and still making progress.

 

[alive]

I think the problem is type 4's have been brainwashed to think they have to do all of that to grow hair long, when really they don't.

Have you see Yassylane's regimen? It is wash, condition, braid, unbraid, the end.

Do you know what she doesn't do? She doesn't pre-poo, then poo, then post poo , daily cowash, henna, DC, apply leave-in or moisturizer or any of the homemade concoctions y'all do or take tons of vitamins. And she's type 4A/B. And her hair is flourishing. See for yourself: http://public.fotki.com/yassylane/type4hair/

Do you know who else doesn't spend a lot of time on her hair? Me. Yes, putting in braids does take a while, but if I didn't enjoy playing in my hair, I'd not do it. So it's a joy to put braids in my hair. Once that's done, I just shampoo, condition, ACV rinse. And then I echo Yassylane's don'ts (except I do DC only coz it made sense to me to do so and I love any excuse to wash my hair). The end.

So that's two type 4 folks not doing much to their hair and still making progress.

Nonie, you are hilarious! I definitely understand your point though--simplicity is key. Funny that i hadn't seen any of this when i was editing my post haha

 

[Duchesse]

.

Compared to washing in sections, deep conditioning, detangling, moisturizing, and avoiding SSKs, that is nothing to me. However, as Nonie is helping us all understand, it is possible that some of us think that our hair is more work simply because we have not learned about the easier techniques of growing our hair types long (which is why im itching for her to come back and explain how on earth she doesn't have to confront tangles)

I completely agree that everybody has to groom their hair however, as it stands, some grooming is easier than others which makes me ask the question “why?”

I hope this provides some more context around the question

I think I understand your question. If so, my best friend (4b) and I were having a similar discussion. Not the "can our hair grow"(obviously it has the same growth potential as many others...and I don't think that's what you were saying), but the "should I be expending so much energy/time on it ...it would be easier to keep it short" question.

Is that what you were asking?

I know for ease and simplicity, my hair would do and has done wonderfully kept closely cropped. However, because I desire length, I'm willing to spend more time on it for grooming and health. Now I don't and won't spend exorbitant amounts of time on my hair, but I do know that the longer it gets, the more work.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

May I introduce you to our beloved Sera. She has type 4B hair that obviously isn't meant to be short: http://www.youtube.com/sera2544

ETA: I do not think Western influences are why we grow 4B hair long. If you ever read the book Hair Story you will discover what a glory African hair was, how elaborately it was worn long, and how proud Africans were to show it off, way before white folks intruded on their land. It may also help you understand why it is that slaves were so ashamed of their 4B hair. They had never in all their lives worn it un-groomed and here they were with no combs and no time to tend to it. So they wore scarves or shaved it off, because they were used to having long hair, but not long hair that was unkempt. 4B hair got a bad rap not because it's the worst kind of hair there is, but because it was hair that those who had it were used to wearing it in smart dos, but found themselves w/o tools to do so, and it brought shame to not work it like they were able to back in their homeland.

If you scroll down the first pages of Hair Story to page 2, you will see one hairstyle from back in the day: http://www.amazon.com/Hair-Story-Un...=UTF8&qid=1281972818&sr=1-1#reader_0312283229 which isn't short. And there are more images in the book.

Thanks Nonie...I was gonna refer to Sera also...She has broken all so-called limitations on 4B hair...She is the reason I knew I could succeed at being a natural and growing it out long...!

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

No hair TYPE is designed to be short. However, certain people's hair is designed to be short simply because of genetics. All of us have terminal length. That is the length we just stop growing and cannot go past because of our genes. Many people try to prove this by saying things like "well if your mom and dad and everyone in your family has short hair, most likely you'll have short hair too that can't grow long" which is silly since perhaps they're just ignorant about how to retain and maintain. If majority of people in your family have short hair that does not mean you are destined for it. The only way to find out would be taking a genetics test.

But what are they? No one knows the terminal length of this race or this ethnicity, or this sub group....I hate the term because it really doesn't contribute much to the conversations (in prior posts and other websites that argue it) where this has come up.....

One can tell me: Yes we all have terminal lengths. My next question is...whats mine? You can mention genetics but it still proves little. For example...many people have the gene pre-disposing them to be overweight or develop hypertension....but they have neither....Which shows the role of environment (i.e: Diet, Exercise....and for us...healthy hair practices....) It would take a lot to actually prove terminal length in action.....

However I think Nonie hit on the head regarding type 4 hair being more SHRUNKEN by design....And we can surely argue that for wavy and women with loose coils too.

 

[qchelle]

Sure our hair requires a little more maintenance and upkeep...but we can do SO much mroe with our hair! Now I'm def. not saying white people (looser textures) can't do anything with their hair but they can't do all of the things we can. We can loc it, braid/twist it and its stays in, wear a fro, wear it curly, and on top of all of that straighten it to look like theirs! Oh, the versatility! (Can you tell that I love tightly curled hair? )

 

[Nonie]

Nonie, I'm green with envy that you don't detangle. i don't understand how that's possible do you have your regimen posted somewhere?

There's really nothing to my regimen. Now I'm in braids but the regimen when not in braids might be what you're interested in.

I guess that would start with me taking my braids out, which I do with fingers, and as you can see, there's no knotting and therefore no detangling necessary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j68_fk46rNk
I usually do that while watching TV. I don't use any products and I do redo my braids during their life on my head, so I think those two things keep shed hair out, and also prevent my strands from gluing to each other.

After I undo every few braids, I put them in big plaits. That ensures that any moisture in the air, or when I do get bored and decide to take a break or to take a shower, that the free hair doesn't curl back on itself and tangle:

When I've undone all my hair, I will then jump in the shower with the hair in braids and wet it and shampoo it in braids using some moisturizing shampoo. I will undo each braid and comb through then rebraid. And I do that during conditioning and I do that during the rinse too. I may start with a wide tooth comb, as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCcoXph8tF4

But if I feel like it, I have also used a fine-tooth seamless comb. only then I work on narrower sections. Notice how I comb my hair in that vid: I stretch it to open up the coils and then let the comb slide through.

I then let my hair dry in the plaits I had. This photo shows you my bare hair after it's dried in plaits that has no tangles so that it's so easy to just grab and twist w/o ever touching a comb again:

And when my hair is twisted, it stays in that detangled state so that undoing is as simple as seen in the clip below, even after many washes as you can tell by how fuzzy the twist I'm undoing is, compared to the ^^freshly done ones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jff-Uqfb_SA

OK, but suppose I don't want to twist but want to wear my hair out, which is what I started explaining. Then I will undo each section and saturate it with S Curl, while my hair is still damp. It combs easily and if I want to wear it out, I comb in a backward direction and slide and elastic thingy back and use my hands to push my hair back. As you can see, when my hair is damp, shrinkage is huge:

In the evening, my hair is fully dry and it does feel hard, but after I removed the elastic thingy, I then grab a section of my hair starting from the back, saturate with S Curl, stretch and comb then plait it. I do this till all my hair is plaited, then put on a baggy for the night.

In the morning, when I take the baggy off, my hair again combs with such ease, and this time, shrinkage isn't as tight as it was on wet hair. I do not reapply S Curl and I can repeat the process till wash day w/o ever reapplying anything:

And in the evening, I plait my hair again. Part, comb, plait. Not one time have I needed to detangle.

I do dust my hair frequently which keeps my ends nice and smooth, and I do ACV rinse which keeps the entire strands smooth. I also don't apply 1739279273 that can glue strands together.

Somehow this is all I have to do and I never have to detangle. I just get tired of doing hair daily--coz even growing up in Kenya, that wasn't normal (I don't know anyone who did unless their hair was relaxed or short)--so I braid or twist. And that this happens to be good for retention is just a blessing in itself because I do love braided or twisted hair. I even love cornrowed hair, but I find them very tiring to do. Otherwise for me, the hair journey is not the headache a lot of you make it out to be and that's coz I'm not trying to make my hair do stuff that's not in its character. Like you won't see me doing a WNG coz (1) I think it looks ugly on 4B hair as if combs are not sold where you come from and (2) it's as crazy to me as pouring pancake dough over your hair, so why do it???? I work with my hair and keep things simple and it thanks me.

 

[lalla]

I haven't read the other posts yet, but I do think it is designed to look short. Tight curls = shrinkage = short look no matter the length, although uncombed 4b will form locks and appear long.

I don't know if the hair being dry or prone to tangling is a sign that 4b hair is not supposed to grow. Having dry skin does not mean your skin is destined to look dry.
I also think that shrinkage makes 4b hair more elastic than 1A hair. You can easily stretch 4b hair to 3 or 4 times its length without damage; stretch 1a hair to 4 times its length and chances are it will snap.



BTW I don't think any of our body parts were designed to behave in a particular way. Evolution can explain a lot of things, chance may explain others. Do the shapes of our heads have any impact on our intellectual capacity? It is unlikely, however genetic differences in cranial shape exist. In my opinion, some genetic characters may be meaningless, hair being one of those.

I don't think what your hair is "designed to do " is enough to keep a determined woman from reaching her (hair) goals.

 

[TheQuietOne]

i hope 4b hair isnt designed to be short because if it is then my regimen i have now incorporated into my daily life will be a waste of my time.

I have come to love my 4b hair now i know wat products work for it and which ones do not.
its doesnt tangle and since changing my hair habits i have seen a lot less breakage.

me and my hair are aiming for APL and we gonna get there

 

[lalla]

A link where you may see some traditional African hairstyles ( just scroll down): Malela's blog.

 

[RegaLady]

Doesn't locked hair also look long because of the shed hair that is incorporated with the strands to make the lock look longer and fuller? I mean locked hair doesn't shed either, if we keep using locked hair as an example. Just wondering.

 

[Alta Angel]

My 4b back section grows faster and is easier to detangle than my 4a front section. It grows out instead of down, but its fine with me. With the addition to castor oil to my moisture spritz, my hair is softer and easier to deal with than ever. For my bun, I keep the middle and back sections in 4 braids and my hair remains moisturized all day.

 

[iri9109]

nope. hair grows from the scalp, which means if you retain all your length, your hair has virtually no limit as to how long it can get...b/c its the most fragile type of hair so you seriously have to baby it in order to reduce breakage and damage. i think shorter ( medium length) natural hair will always be easier to maintain wether you are 3a or 4b just because its less to detangle, less hair to tangle up on its self, less hair to comb style, and overall less manipulation

 

[alive]

Nonie, your hair looks so healthy. Thanks so much for sharing that.

OT: One unanticipated but very nice perk of this thread is that a lot of beautiful heads of hair are chiming in (both relaxed & natural) and offering tips on how we 4bs can simplify our regimens even more

 

[Nonie]

Doesn't locked hair also look long because of the shed hair that is incorporated with the strands to make the lock look longer and fuller? I mean locked hair doesn't shed either, if we keep using locked hair as an example. Just wondering.

That locks incorporate shed hair simply explains why locked hair seems not to have a terminal length but seems like it can grow to the floor like this Asha Mandela's. It's because the shed hair attaches to the growing hair so that it sort of strings old shed hair to new growing hair. But the truth of the matter is the hair is growing up to its terminal length which is at least APL stretched but could be WL, which proves that it is not designed to be short.

 

[alive]

My 4b back section grows faster and is easier to detangle than my 4a front section. It grows out instead of down, but its fine with me. With the addition to castor oil to my moisture spritz, my hair is softer and easier to deal with than ever. For my bun, I keep the middle and back sections in 4 braids and my hair remains moisturized all day.

so basically only the front half of your hair is unbraided in the bun? Sorry I'm posting from my phone so I can't see the pics properly

 

[cherxy777]

God, I hope its not designed to be short. Then what am i doing with all that time and money? lol

 

[alive]

God, I hope its not designed to be short. Then what am i doing with all that time and money? lol

don't worry, hundreds if not thousands on women have proven that 4b length can be retained. Now we're working on educating ourselves on how to make the process easier

 

[naijamerican]

I just have to say that this is an excellent thread. I appreciate that it has indeed turned into a celebration of 4B hair and a sharing of techniques that help. Those of us privileged to have this hair type (and yes, I truly do mean privileged) have to fight against internalizing the notion that our hair operates at some type of deficit compared to our looser-textured sistren.

I have found that, for me, hair growth is not the problem; it is retention. I'm a low-manipulation style person by nature and I'm contemplating doing a hard-core personal protective style challenge from now until the end of the year. I'd keep my hair in braids and simply rebraid them. No extensions added, just my own hair. It will also help as I try to adopt a healthier lifestyle through exercising.

I totally appreciate everything Nonie said in this thread. The reason that 4B hair is ever problematic is when we fight against its natural inclinations (that is, to leave it the heck alone) and force it to do things it was not intended to do as readily as someone with looser curls can do.

 

[FebeeSigns]

The op didn't ask if type 4 hair was short by design. She asked if type 4 hair is designed to be short. It may seem like a matter of semantics but the way her question was worded makes all the difference. Type 4 hair shrinks on itself, it grows up and out as opposed to down, due to it's shape type 4 hair is prone to dryness. To retain length most type 4s have to do things to their hair that goes against it's natural tendencies (keep it confined in protective styles, keep the length stretched, braid, band, twist, relax, use heat etc...)After a certain length, I don't see many type fours that just wash and go (shrunken afro) retaining a lot length. To retain length most type fours have to alter the shape of their hair.

My aim is not to have a discussion or debate on what the OP originally asked and how I and other are supposed to respond on it, so this will be my last post regarding such. I posted word for word what the OP's question was, yet you specifically stated that's not what she asked. I pulled it from her own post. How you percieve the question is not how others may percieve the question. Everyone has a different response and I appreciate you posting your opinion that people are missing the point, but not everyone feels the way you do on that subject. Despite your previous response that I'm quoting, what I said still stands. I'm familiar with the 4 hair type seeing as how I have some 4a and have immersed myself in various hair boards and books since BC'ing. If there's anything else to learn I can definitely do so by sticking around in this thread. But having a debate on something else that isn't as important to me isn't helping.

 

[preciouslove0x]

I don't have anything to add. But just wanted to say that I'm really enjoying this thread ^^^ besides some of the bickering ^^^

 

[Alta Angel]

Exactly. I finger detangle the front, spritz with my spray and put in two loose braids for the night.

so basically only the front half of your hair is unbraided in the bun? Sorry I'm posting from my phone so I can't see the pics properly

 

[MadisonK]

May I introduce you to our beloved Sera. She has type 4B hair that obviously isn't meant to be short: http://www.youtube.com/sera2544

ETA: I do not think Western influences are why we grow 4B hair long. If you ever read the book Hair Story you will discover what a glory African hair was, how elaborately it was worn long, and how proud Africans were to show it off, way before white folks intruded on their land. It may also help you understand why it is that slaves were so ashamed of their 4B hair. They had never in all their lives worn it un-groomed and here they were with no combs and no time to tend to it. So they wore scarves or shaved it off, because they were used to having long hair, but not long hair that was unkempt. 4B hair got a bad rap not because it's the worst kind of hair there is, but because it was hair that those who had it were used to wearing it in smart dos, but found themselves w/o tools to do so, and it brought shame to not work it like they were able to back in their homeland.

If you scroll down the first pages of Hair Story to page 2, you will see one hairstyle from back in the day: http://www.amazon.com/Hair-Story-Un...=UTF8&qid=1281972818&sr=1-1#reader_0312283229 which isn't short. And there are more images in the book.

Wow. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[MadisonK]

I think the difficulty with 4B hair comes about when people try to make it do what is not normal to it. I am having the easiest journey ever. I'm not retaining as well as I could, coz I'm not doing sh**, yet my hair is growing w/o a doubt. Coz even with the breakage I get due to not protective styling or sealing, in 3 years, I've gotten here from starting with about 3 inches in 2007.

I think shrinkage goes back to the need for people living in hot Africa to stay cool around their necks and shoulders...and also the shrinkage provides a canopy-like compact shield from the sun so our brains don't get fried. It's all in the genius of our Maker.

In fact, I think the fact that 4B hair is delicate and holds styles for so long is a "hint" at what we need to do with it: Put it in some pretty style and leave it the heck alone. Those with slippery can't-hold-a-do hair are the ones meant to wear it out daily coz it won't do anything else for very long anyway. Now 4B-ers err when instead of making the most of this wonderful, obedient mane, and doing right by it and wearing it in unique styles that could stay neat for as long as we aren't bored with them, we keep bugging the heck out of it.

Look at Mwedzi... I remember when she'd be so frustrated with her hair. But the minute she stopped manipulating it and found ways to style it that aren't abusive to it, her hair exploded and she got to MBL in the blink of an eye.

You have great posts!

 

[Tiye]

I just have to say that this is an excellent thread. I appreciate that it has indeed turned into a celebration of 4B hair and a sharing of techniques that help. Those of us privileged to have this hair type (and yes, I truly do mean privileged) have to fight against internalizing the notion that our hair operates at some type of deficit compared to our looser-textured sistren.

I have found that, for me, hair growth is not the problem; it is retention. I'm a low-manipulation style person by nature and I'm contemplating doing a hard-core personal protective style challenge from now until the end of the year. I'd keep my hair in braids and simply rebraid them. No extensions added, just my own hair. It will also help as I try to adopt a healthier lifestyle through exercising.

I totally appreciate everything Nonie said in this thread. The reason that 4B hair is ever problematic is when we fight against its natural inclinations (that is, to leave it the heck alone) and force it to do things it was not intended to do as readily as someone with looser curls can do.

@ the blue part.

There is no deficit.

I disagree only slightly w/the rest coz I'm out to prove that we can enjoy playing with our hair just like everybody else as well. The length quest has already been proven. But since I'm not one who's interested in length if I can't do anything with it (been there and done it with locs anyway), next level of the quest is styling versatility. There's more knowledge about hair care and hair science readily available today than any time in recent history - so I say it's doable.