Cherokee-n-Black
Well-Known Member
'Cause Andre wasn't really talking about curl patterns when he was stereo--oops, excuse me "typing" hair.
guess this hair type.....BEWARE, serious slobbing may occur
- Thread starter tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT
- Start date
'Cause Andre wasn't really talking about curl patterns when he was stereo--oops, excuse me "typing" hair.
EllePixie
New Member
Nonie
Well-Known Member
Your hair looks like what I consider 4a-it has definite coils. I've always considered 4b to be extremely tight waves, no coils similar to Alek Wek.
I see quite a few 4a's mistyping themselves as 4b, and 3c's calling themselves 4a.
@Nonie-if you believe you aren't 4a, wouldn't 4c be the alternative based on the type diagram?
**4b is actually relatively uncommon, I feel some people who consider their hair to be very kinky just automatically place themselves in this category without fully evaluating their curl pattern.
@serendipity OK, as I said before, that chart is the craziest thing I ever saw.
4C aka CNapp is usually the nickname given to manipulated 4B hair. And anyone who claims to have 4C hair does not post pics of coils. Instead, they post pics like this:
Or like this:
And contrary to what you've heard, 4B hair is not as uncommon as you think. I think there are more people in Africa with 4B hair than any other. And it's the same thing as 4C/CNapp...just that one is the true type and the other is a nickname for its manipulated form. 4C/CNapp is manipulated 4B hair.
@serendipity For comparison, the hair on the left below is 4A and the one to the right 4B:
Notice how small the 4B coils are and it isn't easy to see the coils yet the heads are about the same size.
And if you comb it out, the pics below show the comparisons again. Seen from about the same distance, a combed out afro puff on 4A hair can still show that the hair is made of circular shapes because the coils are big enough for their individual shapes to be seen. 4B on the other hand just looks like a cloud with no distinct shape in the strands when viewed from the same distance:
@Embyra Don't start giving me the giggles all over again. I totally agree. I'd love to see the examples that go with that.
@ms-gg Yep...and IIRC, we did find images of NappyMe's hair clearly showing coils. 
I keep telling anyone who claims to have undamaged 4B hair w/o definition to let me have access to their hair for a week. I'll prove it has curls w/o any product. There are already threads where people DC'd their hair and saw coils they never knew they had. No one's hair grows out of their head with sharp corners. If it isn't straight or wavy, it's curly. The end. Show me a 4B head that is growing from bald and I'll show you cute little circles sprouting out from the scalp. It's manipulation to avoid tangling that gives that "no pattern" illusion. LOL length doesn't change my hair pattern. My hair looks exactly the same as it did when it was short. Here it is about 3 inches long (S Curl applied then combed):
Here it is about full SL (S Curl applied then combed out):
Here it is about 4-5 inches long:
Here it is about Full SL long:
These pics from 2008 finger-combed (no product):
These from 2009 finger-combed base of hair but working toward tips/ends (no product):
These from 2010 not as fully finger-combed as the above pics hence the slight clumping:
nonie pics she takes showing her coils are magnified with her fancy camera she uses
Exactly. The true size of the coils is shown in this image below (If you take a ruler and look at the inch side of it and then look at the space of 1/8 inch (the 8 partitions that divide the inch into equal parts), my coils are about size of the distance between those partitions.
irrestible was like hold up nonie your curl look just like mine we joked that she was a type 3 ....until nonie made it clear her pics were magnified ahhhh fun times
@Embyra, you're killing me reminding me of that discussion. My juice went up my nose. i already asked
^^
@EllePixie @Embyra is right. True @Cherokee-n-Black. I have even said I'd like Andre to show me the human who isn't undergoing some weird mutation who has hair growing out of his/her head with sharp corners that would be described as zigzag. 4B hair can look zigzag but that's from manipulation. I even have a photo showing my hair all zigzaggy:
But that was because it had been braided. I guarantee that if you took several pen springs and braided them together, you'd get some irregular pattern resulting from that. Hair is no different. But when washed and if well moisturized on the inside and left to its own devices, it'll curl shrink back into the shape of a compressed spring. That's how 4B is anyway. But because of its small kinks, it tangles easily and so no 4B-er trying to see long hair will keep letting it shrink up to show curls--unless detangling is a hobby they enjoy. Most keep the hair stretched so it's always in its manipulated state. The images of CNapp/4C I posted above are the way you're likely to see most 4B hair unless it's short.
This is 4B hair that is dry as it has been "moisturized" with grease:
This is the same head of hair after DCing and moisturizing with an actual moisturizer not grease--it formed cute little coils not unlike the ones you saw in my hair:
ETA: @EllePixie, my camera does have a video feature but I'm ashamed to say that having never read the manual, I fail miserably at using it as best as it can be used. Not to mention that I'm not at all good at making vids. You've obviously seen my lousy demos in threads. I'd rest it on a bed and sit leaning over it so only my hair is in the frame.
Clearly I am an embarrassment to the makers of the cam when it comes to video taping. But I will read the manual one day. Then y'all won't be able to tell me nuffin! 
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candycotton
Well-Known Member
ITA..you can't put water or leave-in on 4B hair and make it appear to be 3C..if you have 4B curls, no amount of water is going to increase the diameter of the curl..but if you have 3C size curls, they may be coarse, dry, or frizzy which would make them appear less defined..but that's just my 2 cents I don't even know my own hair type
Embyra
Well-Known Member
oke:
Nonie
Well-Known Member
I don't doubt you do. So do I. But they didn't grow out of your head zigzag. They are that way from manipulation and I don't doubt that damage (wear and tear) can make hair appear differently from how it grew out of your head.
BTW a stretched spring when viewed from a certain angle and especially if it is a small one with tiny coils can appear zigzag. Reason for this is the bends are so tiny that they appear pointed.
This stretched slinky seems to have sharp turns in the middle right above the L that could be called zigzag, but we all know it's a smooth coil all through:
Another zigzag appearance of a stretched coil and the more it is stretched the more open the zigzag appearance would be:
I bet my bottom dollar you don't WNG every single day and just leave your hair to its own devices. You either brush it, comb it, braid it, etc...or you use a type of "moisturizer" like shea butter which IMO just locks hair into whatever manipulated shape you had it in after you applied it. I also think product build up can make hair behave uncharacteristically.
And I do agree with @Kurlee, dry bare hair doesn't tell the full story. You need to see the hair in many forms to have an idea what type of hair it is. When people post just the same hair photo just seen from many angles, that just tells us what your hair is capable of looking like, not necessarily what type it is. After all, both 4A and the 3's can get a good WNG so posting 20 WNG images unless we can tell the curl size doesn't really tell us where your hair falls. But photos of combed out, bare, wet, drip dried, towel dried...whatever can give a more complete picture of what hair you're working with.
Like I thought Haircrush had a braid-out...but on seeing more of her pics, I see 3C/4A hair. But if she calls it 4A/4B, then who are we to disagree. I mean, there are people who post pics of their hair and ask for opinions and after getting a majority saying one thing, they pick the opinions they prefer and go with that. So to each his own.
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wavezncurlz
LHCF addict
I gotta stay out of these threads. I get so caught up.
Honestly, I am just in awe of her hair. And I guess we are saying the same thing (I think 
)@ the bold. Thanks - I wasn't fishing for a compliment. I love her hair, kinda wish mine were as thick and strong looking as hers. I don't even care about the length. I am an admirer from afar and since I'm not able to get all up in her hair, who really knows what type it is
. In short, I guess the reason I'm all caught up in this thread is that I'm obsessed with our (AA/biracial/multiracial/whathaveyou) hair, it's so diverse and unique and beautiful. And girlfriend has a healthy beautiful head of hair - No doubt.Pharmgirl247
New Member
Hi everyone,
Are there any type 4 on here that hair like this lady?
Are there any type 4 on here that hair like this lady?
Maybe braid trained discussion came up after this post, where someone says Lhdc's hair is braid trained:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?p=13464905&highlight=braid+trained#post13464905
serendipity What do you mean by coarseness here, that makes hair puffy? Do you mean strand diameter? I'm thinking not because many straight haired Asians have thick strands. Do you mean raised cuticles? Or . .. .?
I guess that's a general question to people saying that people are typing her hair based on texture rather than curl size. Not that I disagree, just that I don't understand. What is "texture"? Is it the shape of the strand (round vs. flat ribbon) or is it raised cuticles or strand diameter or something else? What gives "afro texture" if not curl size?
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Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
EllePixie - The chart that serendipity posted, I don't think it's stupid. I think it actually gives a good idea of each hair type. And what's wrong with your hair being Type 2c/3b/c? Just in my opinion, when I've seen pictures of your hair, I feel like you are majority Type 3C.
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
Nonie - based on you post that I quoted below, how did you come to the conclusion that HairCrush has Type 3C/4A hair? Your hair is Type 4A/B, and I saw no strands in her hair like yours. I don't see any springs in HairCrush's hair. After she washes her hair, it pretty much hangs straightish/wavy. It doesn't shrink up into tiny little coils like ours. There are no springs...no loose curls, no tight curls. Are you saying the weight of her hair stretches out the 4A/B strands that dramatically???
serendipity Uhmm...my 4B is not wavy at all, neither is any that I have seen. LOL
It's only wavy if I braid it
or stretch it with my fingers.
It probably could be wavy if I brushed it but I don't like brushes.
IMO the difference between 4A and 4B is 4B coils are tinier than 4A and therefore hard to see unless one is really close. The thread @tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT started asking us to insert 4B hair pics clearly shows you that 4B is not wavy hair...unless it's manipulated to be.
@Kurlee and @Poohbear, after seeing the clips you posted (Thanks so much for the tips to FF to the important parts coz I do not sit through long YT vids), I am convinced she's 3C/4A. Her hair behaves the way I see @LynnieB's hair and @~~HoneyComb~~'s hair behave. She probably has a porous hair (not saying that like it's a bad thing but some people do and some don't, and she herself did give evidence of that by saying how fast it dries) which means it absorbs water easily and is thus weighed down by it creating the waves. If she were not stroking her hair and just let it dry, I bet my bottom dollar it'd look wavy...the way curls look when stretched out. It would not shrink up the way another 3C/4A hair might because it's heavy (coarse) and long. Her hair is not type 2 or 1, IMO. It's not 3A or 3B either. Nor is it 100% 3C. It's got the characteristics of 3C and 4A. I do think coarse strands do hang more if long because gravity is able to exert more force on the strands. Also I do believe that long hair that weighed down by moisture may behave the way hair does when shingled. The base of the hair closer to the scalp is the first to dry...but it does so being weighed down by the lower part of hair that is still heavy with water...and so the base is set in a stretched state. And so on. By the time the ends are drying fully, they have been pulling down on the length of the hair due to the water that has been flowing down toward them in obedience to gravity...thus making them feel like a weight pulling on the strands.
EllePixie
New Member
Well, I find it stupid. Other charts I have seen look totally different, which further emphasizes my point that hair typing (using this system) is bunk. How can various representations of that same system look totally different? It's extremely inconsistent. It seems that people are just pulling evidence they can find that supports their own beliefs.
And there is nothing wrong with being a 2c/3b/c - I am baffled as to how people keep concluding that there is something "wrong" with being a certain hair type just because someone does not think that they are. Why would there be anything wrong with being ANY hair type? It's not that serious. I wouldn't disagree with my hair being a majority of 3c, but like I've said, I don't know my hair type and I don't care - I have been called a 3c, 3c/4a, 4a, or just a type 4. If people find it misleading for me to say that I am a type 4 (which I said for the sake of this convo since at the beginning someone noted my tight curls), please let me know and I'll kindly remove myself from that category.
When people ask me what hair type I am, I usually say a mix of fractal and corkscrew curls, which I can say with confidence when I look at my hair, unlike Andre's system, where I am always reluctant to say I'm a certain type because people automatically associate a number of performance characteristics to hair that really don't have anything to do with type, and the last thing I want to do make people think that our hair is supposed to act/look the same, when it could be completely different. This is very important to me when people read my blog and ask me questions, especially when they have just bc'ed. I always make a point to tell them that it's best to not compare their hair to others and everyone's hair is different.
For instance, I remember one time Nonie said that 3c hair cannot make a microphone afro, when I certainly have no issues blowing my hair out into a microphone fro. So which is it? I just find the entire thing incredibly confusing.
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Nonie
Well-Known Member
@Poohbear My hair is NOT 4A/B. My hair is 100% 4B just like @Foxglove's hair. I don't have any A in it. I just have a good camera that takes great closeups otherwise my curls are too tiny to be 4A anything. Also I can't get a WNG at all the way 4A's and maybe 4A/B's can. (I've always said I don't know what 4A/B is but I do know my hair is 4B. I've no doubt about that.)
I explained how I came to the conclusion that HairCrush's hair is 3C/4A. Her hair behaves the way I see 3C/4A hair behave. I don't know how to else to explain this except exactly as I did in the post I stated this. And if you look at the characteristics of other 3C/4A-ers (not the ones jumping on the new fashion trend but the ones who are without a doubt 3C/4A--also mentioned in my post), you will see how similar their hair is. The one difference you may notice is HairCrush's hair hangs more, and I also explained why I believe that is.
My post about my hair that you quoted when you asked the above question had nothing to do with HairCrush's hair or my coming to the conclusion she's 3C/4A. LOL That post you quoted was responding to the statement that 4B hair is zigzag and that 4C is made of tiny coils. I disagreed and was using my images to show what I mean.
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Nonie
Well-Known Member
@EllePixie, do you have a photo of that microphone afro? Does it look like this because that's what I have in mind when I talk of microphone afro:
Now maybe short 3C can be made into a somewhat afro. But when I was talking about it, I meant hair that was pretty long. For Type 4 hair to make and afro, we don't even need to blow it out; just comb it out and voilà, an afro! In fact, blowing it out, especially if long, would just make the hair flop the way I expect type 3 hair to flop and be more work to create a microphone 'fro.
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EllePixie
New Member
EllePixie, do you have a photo of that microphone afro? Does it look like this because that's what I have in mind when I talk of microphone afro:
Now maybe short 3C can be made into a somewhat afro. But when I was talking about it, I mean hair that was pretty long. For Type 4 hair to make and afro, we don't even need to blow it out, just comb it out and voilà, an afro! In fact, blowing it out, especially if long, would just make the hair flop the way I expect type 3 hair to flop and be more work to create a microphone 'fro.
Nonie Yes ma'am, I do! This is microphone, no (I blew out my hair using leave-in condish only - oh, and I styled the front with that side part thingie, it would have stood straight up if I wanted it to, I had to coax it)? I can also comb or brush my dry hair out to look like this - but I blow it out b/c I usually style my hair while it is wet, and on a dry wng I've usually used a styler and combing that out would be a disaster. But I've def detangled on dry hair that had condish on it and combed it out into a fro. I think it would still stand up at this length b/c of my hair texture - it's pretty easy to hold a style and would only flop if it were wet. If my hair was SUPER long, yes, I think it might be an issue to keep it standing up like that, but many type 4s begin to flop when their hair is very long as well, like MsLala (that's her name right?).
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Nonie
Well-Known Member
@Poohbear I'm with EllePixie on this. Have you ever seen anyone's hair grow out of their head looking zigzag? Do have pics, coz unless someone has some weird mutation going on in their head, I believe hair follicles produce three pattern: straight, wavy and curly. A follicle would have to be undergoing some spasmodic changes to be spitting out straight, oops, sharp corner bending to left, straight, oops, sharp corner bending to right...to create a hair strand that has a zigzag pattern. And why would this not start at child birth? I am yet to see babies whose hair has never been braided look zigzaggy...especially when really short. And even after you shave it off, it comes in in cute coils. So that chart makes so sense whatsoever.
That's like saying that Muslim women have brown patterns on their hands and creating a chart for that. And if one didn't know better, that chart would be telling us they are born like that, it is part and parcel of who they are. But it isn't. Their hands are like that because they decorate them with henna. I work with Muslim women who don't have henna on their hands so that chart would exclude them. In short, zigzag hair happens because we did something to our natural pattern. It isn't a characteristic of any hair type, but is a result of manipulation.
Embyra
Well-Known Member
I cannot get a microphone afro from brushing combing or blowdrying....blowdrying would have my hair straight
you can get a afro because your texture allows this as i said before people dont believe 3 CAN have any kind of texture to it similar to a 4
if your hair is not curly/silky/fine without product then your 4 now i really dont think im crazy when i say your curls look GIGANTIC when compared to say poohbear so kindly remove yourself from the 4 group
sorry i couldnt help it
EllePixie
New Member
I cannot get a microphone afro from brushing combing or blowdrying....blowdrying would have my hair straight
you can get a afro because your texture allows this as i said before people dont believe 3 has any kind of texture to it similar to a 4
if your hair is not curly/silky/fine without product then your 4 now i really dont think im crazy when i say your curls look GIGANTIC when compared to say poohbear so kindly remove yourself from the 4 group
You are such a butt. But I do agree with you - a lot of people think that type 3 hair has to be silky and fine, but my texture is clearly more spongy/coarse, which is why I find it so confusing!! I never wanted to put myself in type 3 because I didn't want the texture believers giving me a side eye (Like, "I know dang well she didn't call that kinky stuff type 3 hair..."), but it seems like I get type 4 side eyes too! I'm leaving!!!!
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
I cannot get a microphone afro from brushing combing or blowdrying....blowdrying would have my hair straight
you can get a afro because your texture allows this as i said before people dont believe 3 CAN have any kind of texture to it similar to a 4
if your hair is not curly/silky/fine without product then your 4 now i really dont think im crazy when i say your curls look GIGANTIC when compared to say poohbear so kindly remove yourself from the 4 group
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
that fro is hot
Nonie
Well-Known Member
EllePixie Interesting. Your hair definitely does defy what I think of 3C. So maybe some 3Cs can make afros if their hair is thick and coarse. I guess I stand corrected.
Yes, long type 4 hair will flop if stretched, but if MsLala allowed her hair to shrink to its max and then applied some slip like S Curl to comb it, I bet you she'd get BBAMA (bloody big a$$ microphone afro). Kinda like Esperanza Spalding does.
Embyra
Well-Known Member
Cherokee-n-Black
Well-Known Member
EllePixie you have officially been kicked out of the 4 group, please do not return. The receptionist will give your belongings on the way out.I cannot get a microphone afro from brushing combing or blowdrying....blowdrying would have my hair straight
you can get a afro because your texture allows this as i said before people dont believe 3 CAN have any kind of texture to it similar to a 4
if your hair is not curly/silky/fine without product then your 4 now i really dont think im crazy when i say your curls look GIGANTIC when compared to say poohbear so kindly remove yourself from the 4 group
EllePixie
New Member
EllePixie you have officially been kicked out of the 4 group, please do not return. The receptionist will give your belongings on the way out.
Well then, I said gawdd*mn!!! I didn't wanna be a part of your little type 4 club anyway!!!
**Throws a tantrum a la Scarface in Half Baked**
I'M OUT!
ETA: All hair typing threads should be like this...lol
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
maybe ur definition is too stringent. My hair is 4a and hangs down
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