Do we, as women of color, suffer from Pocohonatas syndrome?

[tastesosweet]

l0l actually Pocohonatas wasn't real l0l...just wanted to put my 2 cent in l0l

I've heard of her being both fact and myth--but that's a whole different thread to start!

 

[caligirl]

You'd be surprised how common this is among our counterparts. It's really not just a black hair thing... other races deal with this issue of hair as well. There are non-black women who alter their hair... there are non-black women who transition too, whether they are growing a perm out or color out. There are non-black women who've done the BC! Check out that site Isis posted... The Long Hair Community is a predominantly white hair site, and they discuss similar issues regarding growing and wanting their hair long, certain hair products, etc etc etc. There are non-black women who struggle with growing long hair too... not just us. I think since we are Black and participate in discussions about hair often (whether online or in real life) it just SEEMS like it's more of an issue with us.

I think long for other folks is probably waist length/tail-bone length. It seems like most white woman have bra strap or longer hair. Bra strap seems to be the average.

 

[mommatide]

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, I LOVE THIS PLACE I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH AND APPRECIATE YOU ALL FOR SHARING AND LISTENING.

SORRY, I THOUGHT POCO WAS WHITE..MY BAD

 

[tastesosweet]

I think Tastesosweet was just posing a question and not trying to make a distinction between women with long hair and women with natural hair. If you look at her album, she is natural AND she also has LONG hair. So I seriously doubt that she was trying to attack long haired women or women who desire to have long hair.

But I think in general, the Pocohontas syndrome exists. If I were to generalize, I think most men and women across racial groups, admire long hair.

Thanks Poetist for having my back and you are completely right in your assessment of this thread. Trust ladies, I have had too many varied hair experiences to attack anybody's personal choices.

 

[tastesosweet]

thanks poohbear,you are on point.
this is what get's me.....we are sitting hear discussing this hair thing among ourselves, but do you think white women look at us, long or short, strait or natural and say"oh, she's trying to be like me". i don't think so. if anything, there trying to be like us. so why is it such an issue with us as black women still to this day, this whole natural/relaxed/long/straight thing.

when i found this hairboard, i was like "cool" there is something for everybody. but then these type of debates come up, and i'm like whoa, it's still there...........................peace

Again to clarify... this thread, by no means, was started for debate purposes. It could become one, I guess, but if you read my first thread I state specifically that I place neither a positive or negative judgement on this. Some people will. However, just to throw a lil' salt, another question to consider might be why do we feel the need to be defensive about the choices that we make? Nobody (at least not on this forum) is asking us to apologize for our big afros and puffs, our knotty dreads, or our long flowing perms and presses. So why do we feel the need to defend?

 

[delp]

I take more of a philosophical view. Black america throughout history has long been obsessed with hair and skin color. If you like your skin color then it is your hair. It all has to do with acceptance by whites and by black males. When i had natural hair, the only guys who acknowledged me were white males. Black males did not say anything. Black females talked about me behind my back. It is all a farce to me. I can laugh now.When I was young, It really hurt.

 

[patient1]

It's interesting that we don't always assume that women and men of other races envy anything about OUR natural hair textures, colors, lengths, versatility, etc. That speaks volumes to me.

Poca wasn't white. The hair length and texture associated with her is not typical of white women. And honestly, I think MOST women of color be they relaxed, natural, loced, etc. KNOW that changing their hair gets them no closer to whiteness than a nose job or any other alteration.

I don't think we give Black women enough credit. Yes, somehow the seed for the desire for length has been planted in the community. I still see students at my school fawning over anyone with long hair. And it (long straight hair) does stand out. I'd be in denial if I didn't recognize that shorter lengthed girl gazing at the girl with the long hair or asking to brush it. I lived with a mother with so-called long "good" hair. We'd be after her to brush it. My daughter has long hair of the same texture. My oldest sister who's darn near 35 loves to brush it and fawn over it, "Oh,....you have the hair of my dreams!"

Does she want to be white? Uh. . .no! Does she long for lengthy, "silky" hair? Yep.

p1

p1

 

[TwistNMx]

LOL.... But really, her hair is nice and long though.

 

[tastesosweet]

I take more of a philosophical view. Black america throughout history has long been obsessed with hair and skin color. If you like your skin color then it is your hair. It all has to do with acceptance by whites and by black males. When i had natural hair, the only guys who acknowledged me were white males. Black males did not say anything. Black females talked about me behind my back. It is all a farce to me. I can laugh now.When I was young, It really hurt.

So so true. When I was really young and permed out, my best friend was natural. In fact she had always been even in elementary school. By junior high she was styling her own natural hairstyles. She was the first person I saw with bantu knots. I'll never forget--we were about 14 at the mall, and people were laughing and pointing at her. Adults, kids, black, white, whatever all found her hairstyle funny, and I remember feeling a sense of embarassment. In hindsight, I realize it was my own naivete around the situation as well as those who were laughing. To this day, that girl STILL has the thickest, healthiest head of hair I've ever seen.

 

[tastesosweet]

It's interesting that we don't always assume that women and men of other races envy anything about OUR natural hair textures, colors, lengths, versatility, etc. That speaks volumes to me.

Poca wasn't white. The hair length and texture associated with her is not typical of white women. And honestly, I think MOST women of color be they relaxed, natural, loced, etc. KNOW that changing their hair gets them no closer to whiteness than a nose job or any other alteration.

I don't think we give Black women enough credit. Yes, somehow the seed for the desire for length has been planted in the community. I still see students at my school fawning over anyone with long hair. And it (long straight hair) does stand out. I'd be in denial if I didn't recognize that shorter lengthed girl gazing at the girl with the long hair or asking to brush it. I lived with a mother with so-called long "good" hair. We'd be after her to brush it. My daughter has long hair of the same texture. My oldest sister who's darn near 35 loves to brush it and fawn over it, "Oh,....you have the hair of my dreams!"

Does she want to be white? Uh. . .no! Does she long for lengthy, "silky" hair? Yep.

p1

p1

Well said P1.

 

[tastesosweet]

LOL.... But really, her hair is nice and long though.

HE HE HE

 

[TwistNMx]

HE HE HE

Just wanted to lighten up the atmosphere.

 

[tropicexotic]

I didn't read through all the threads, so I'm sorry if I'm repetitive.

When I was relaxed, I used to get alot of comments on my hair from women asking me what I used etc. My hair had been lengthy all my life, and more so from my growth rate than what I did to it...cuz I didn't take care of it and I thought seeing hairs on your shirt and on the floor after you combed it was a normal thing. So when people asked me what I used or what I did, I really had nothing spectacular to share--but it was clear that having long hair (at least in my community) as a black woman was NOT normal. So, I think with long hair being seen as something beautiful by pretty much everyone, and it being something that many black women did not have--because of excessive breakage or damage etc--of course people are gonna be preoccupied with wanting that length.

Now of course all of us here know with a lil TLC people's hair can grow past their waist with no problem, but unfortunately there are a very small percentage of black women (at least in my community lol) that have that w/o some sort of extra help (aka weave). So we might be perceived with being preoccupied with length, but many women think their hair doesn't grow or will be shoulder length forever...which to me is a bigger mistake than being overly obsessed with length.

 

[SweetCaramel1]

Pocohantas syndrome is simply the desire for long, flowing hair. The name comes from the legendary Native American character Pocohantas, who is usually depicted as wearing two long braids. http://www.melungeons.com/articles/images/pocahontas.jpg

i can say that i've never "craved" to have long hair or felt in desperation for a lack thereof. i see other women with long/longer hair and i admire it.

 

[shiningstar84]

uh wasnt there a thread like this already

 

[tastesosweet]

uh wasnt there a thread like this already

I believe there was a similar thread. Nonetheless, what's your take on it?

 

[Poohbear]

I think long for other folks is probably waist length/tail-bone length. It seems like most white woman have bra strap or longer hair. Bra strap seems to be the average.

Well, there are black women here who want waist/tail-bone length... not just for 'other' folks whoever that may be. I want waist length hair... I may achieve that length, I may not. Also, we're just always told that most white women have long hair... that's not really true. They may be able to grow long hair easier than blacks. It just depends on how whites and blacks take care of their hair texture. I've seen several articles saying that hair (regardless of race) grows approx. 6 inches a year. I guess it depends on individual experiences. With my experience, hair length (short and long) has been pretty much equal across the board (among blacks and whites). Plus, there are women (black or white) that like to keep their hair short so we'll never know how long their hair could really be.

Having long hair also goes back to those infamous hair growing genetics:
There are blacks who have fast hair growth rates
There are whites who have fast hair growth rates
There are blacks who have slow hair growth rates
There are whites who have slow hair growth rates
We can't keep generalizing blacks into the slow hair growing catergory and whites into the fast hair growing catergory. Plus, this ordeal isn't just limited to blacks and whites... even asians, indians, africans, etc etc etc!!!

(I know I got a bit off subject here but I just wanted to add this to the discussion).

 

[shiningstar84]

I figured I'd pose this question just to see what you ladies think. I think that most women of color do, simply because it has not been as easy for us (or at least it has been thought) to get as much length as quickly as our white counterparts. I'm not placing a judgement on the situation--I think its neither a good or bad thing--it just is what it is.

What do you ladies think?

PS: It's Pocohantas--fingers moving too fast

1st: does black hair grow slower than white, asian, or hispanic hair? i really dont remember if this was researched or not. anyone else know for sure. and not on your own eye observations. 'cause i know i used to do some messed up stuff to my hair where i would have to cut it every 6 weeks like clockwork. but when non-mixed blacks take proper care of their hare, doesnt it grow out long??? not long as in to the floor, but long as in to the ceiling. lol.
but i dont believe whites/asians/or hispanics cut their hair as often as relaxed heads do. but anyways
generally/stereotypically all women want long hair b/c that is the current standard of beauty. i see nothing wrong with that.

BUT:
I do have problems with women: black white & hispanic who do absolutely anything to get their hair bone straight when they were not born with bone straight hair. I lived with a white girl w/3c hair. She would blow dry and flat iron the hell out of her hair 2 get it straight. Girl was obsessed, and she hated her curly hair. It is a serious mental complex and a form of self hatred. IMHO.
Off to nappturality I go nevamind their site is down again as usual

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=65421

 

[senimoni]

Maybe I'm misreading, but why is the desire to have long hair have to be a "syndrome" like a disease we are afflicted with or something.

 

[caligirl]

Well, there are black women here who want waist/tail-bone length... not just for 'other' folks whoever that may be. I want waist length hair... I may achieve that length, I may not. Also, we're just always told that most white women have long hair... that's not really true. They may be able to grow long hair easier than blacks. It just depends on how whites and blacks take care of their hair texture. I've seen several articles saying that hair (regardless of race) grows approx. 6 inches a year. I guess it depends on individual experiences. With my experience, hair length (short and long) has been pretty much equal across the board (among blacks and whites). Plus, there are women (black or white) that like to keep their hair short so we'll never know how long their hair could really be.

Having long hair also goes back to those infamous hair growing genetics:
There are blacks who have fast hair growth rates
There are whites who have fast hair growth rates
There are blacks who have slow hair growth rates
There are whites who have slow hair growth rates
We can't keep generalizing blacks into the slow hair growing catergory and whites into the fast hair growing catergory. Plus, this ordeal isn't just limited to blacks and whites... even asians, indians, africans, etc etc etc!!!

(I know I got a bit off subject here but I just wanted to add this to the discussion).

Poohbear, just take a trip to your local mall and you'll see what I mean. I know its not scientific or anything, but it seems like the average length for white/asian/latina women is bra-strap. If we saw black women on the regular with bra strap and longer hair, I bet this forum wouldn't even exist.

 

[Mestiza]

Do we, as women of color, suffer from Pocohonatas syndrome?


I figured I'd pose this question just to see what you ladies think. I think that most women of color do, simply because it has not been as easy for us (or at least it has been thought) to get as much length as quickly as our white counterparts. I'm not placing a judgement on the situation--I think its neither a good or bad thing--it just is what it is.

What do you ladies think?

PS: It's Pocohantas--fingers moving too fast

I've never heard of the "Pocahontas Syndrome." I don't know who made up that term, but if they relate it to "White counterparts," then it makes no sense to me b/c Pocahontas was Native American and not White.

Pocohantas syndrome is simply the desire for long, flowing hair. The name comes from the legendary Native American character Pocohantas, who is usually depicted as wearing two long braids. http://www.melungeons.com/articles/images/pocahontas.jpg

That term would apply to all persons of ALL races and sexes who want to obtain or maintain long, flowing hair.

 

[Mestiza]

White women can be just as hair length challenged as women of color can be. (see www.longhaircommunity.com) We're all learning as much as we can about hair care.

Bravo! I agree 100%!

 

[tastesosweet]

I've never heard of the "Pocahontas Syndrome." I don't know who made up that term, but if they relate it to "White counterparts," then it makes no sense to me b/c Pocahontas was Native American and not White.




That term would apply to all persons of ALL races and sexes who want to obtain or maintain long, flowing hair.

Correct, though the question in this thread is directed to all women of color.

 

[tastesosweet]

Maybe I'm misreading, but why is the desire to have long hair have to be a "syndrome" like a disease we are afflicted with or something.

In this case I wouldn't hold the definition of the word syndrome to signify illness so much as I would to a reoccurring pattern.

 

[Teacake]

No. I had long hair as a child, and have long hair now. I look at myself as an individual. I've gone through periods of having long hair, short hair, in between, layers, one legnth, colored, relaxed, and natural. I actually like having long hair, and don't see a problem with that. I'm not trying to copy Pocahontas, or whoever, because my hair was like this as a child.

 

[UmSumayyah]

thanks poohbear,you are on point.
this is what get's me.....we are sitting hear discussing this hair thing among ourselves, but do you think white women look at us, long or short, strait or natural and say"oh, she's trying to be like me". i don't think so. if anything, there trying to be like us. so why is it such an issue with us as black women still to this day, this whole natural/relaxed/long/straight thing.

[/B]

Actually there are some white women who look at black women and think we are trying/want to be like them.
And there are some white/asian/what have you women who are trying to be like us in some fashion.
IMHO, there is a certain amount of imitation/style and norm adoption that goes on among ethnic groups. Many times someone may want what they see as the norm for an ethnic group that is not their own. They may see it as exotic and gorgeous.
A white friend of mine once told me how threatened some of the white girls at her college used to feel by the Turkish girls there: olive to tan skin, thick, shiny dark hair. I have seen asians/eurasians comment on how white people often gush over their shiny hair. Lots of thin-lipped women are doing collagen injections and buying special lipstick trying to achieve the fuller look traditionally associated with black women. It goes on and on.

 

[Healthb4Length]

I think 99.99% of Black women from all different cultures (hispanic, carribbean, African) suffer from this disease! Hence the booming hair weaving/extension market.

 

[Healthb4Length]

You'd be surprised how common this is among our counterparts. It's really not just a black hair thing... other races deal with this issue of hair as well. There are non-black women who alter their hair... there are non-black women who transition too, whether they are growing a perm out or color out. There are non-black women who've done the BC! Check out that site Isis posted... The Long Hair Community is a predominantly white hair site, and they discuss similar issues regarding growing and wanting their hair long, certain hair products, etc etc etc. There are non-black women who struggle with growing long hair too... not just us. I think since we are Black and participate in discussions about hair often (whether online or in real life) it just SEEMS like it's more of an issue with us.

ITA Pooh! BTW I've missed you! Your hair looks great! I am a member of Longhaircommunity and they have alot of the same issues as we do! Shoot they even use and makeup their own shea butter concoctions and use it on their hair, and do the co-washing thing too...

 

[MissYocairis]

I figured I'd pose this question just to see what you ladies think. I think that most women of color do, simply because it has not been as easy for us (or at least it has been thought) to get as much length as quickly as our white counterparts. I'm not placing a judgement on the situation--I think its neither a good or bad thing--it just is what it is.

What do you ladies think?
PS: It's Pocohantas--fingers moving too fast

Absolutely not. I think the term "Pocohontas Syndrome" (which, I've never heard of) presupposes some exclusivity of long hair to Native American women alone. Which is an odd premise to start off from. It also presupposes that, in races where growing longer hair is more common, that those races/cultures do not desire/appreciate long hair. Neither is true. There are entire sites dedicated to the growing of caucasian/asian hair. There are sites set up YEARS before LHCF came into existence on long hair growing for white women.

The Hindu Indian culture places such value and honor on long hair for their women that, women who go against their societal norms and CUT their hair, OR women whose hair simply never really grows very long, can be OSTRACIZED by their families and community for it. Do THEY have "Pocohontas Syndrome" also because long hair is such an important factor in the beauty ideal there? I think not.

We are making a mountain out of a molehill. Fact is, the things that make Black women's hair experiences different are our hard-fought, excruciating odyssey to deal, manage, beautify and, otherwise, love our own kinky hair. In the process, it's led to destroying our hair growth potential with chemicals and heat. Madame CJ Walker is seen as a pioneer but, honestly, what has that invention led to? THAT'S our issue. It's got nothing to do with being inordinately obsessed with getting lengths we are "incapable of acheiving". Because we ARE capable and we are women just like other women. Hair is your crowning glory.

 

[felicia]

No. I had long hair as a child, and have long hair now. I look at myself as an individual. I've gone through periods of having long hair, short hair, in between, layers, one legnth, colored, relaxed, and natural. I actually like having long hair, and don't see a problem with that. I'm not trying to copy Pocahontas, or whoever, because my hair was like this as a child.

same for me. it has nothing to do with being like anyone else bc i've always had long hair.