Deep down, do you believe that certain hair traits are attributed to being mixed?

[kblc06]

Many of the comments in this thread --> http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=542547&highlight=thigh+length+hair had me thinking about this topic. Now, I concede to the fact that generally mixed raced individuals tend to have a loose hair type (somewhere in the type 3 range or type 3/4 mix). But what about black individuals, including Sub-saharan Africans, Afro-Caribbeans, & AAs who aren't mixed (as far as they know) with type 2 or type 3 hair? Do they have to be mixed somewhere down the line to possess a certain hair texture?

Most of my family consists of brown to very dark skinned people and most have hair in the type 3 range and some even with type 2 hair. They look like your garden variety AAs in terms of facial features, and I'm pretty sure there's no more than 10-15% admixture in our family, if that. Based on my personal observations, out of me and my friends in elementary school , the girls with the longest hair (WL+) were all dark skinned and garden variety black (myself included) with coils in the 2c-3c/4a range, whereas who were more phenotypically mixed looking had slight shorter 4b APL-BSB hair. Therefore, it struck me as odd that many people do not associate looser hair types with 100% black people, especially dark skinned black people. Nor did I associate light skin or other phenotypically mixed features with looser hair textures, because I had seen almost the exact opposite all my life.

I understand that this isn't an exact science and one can't definitively conclude race based on phenotype, but what observations have you observed and what lead you to reach those conclusions.

 

[aquajoyice]

I think it's all a genetic crap shoot. There are biracials with 4b and non-mixed AA's with 2 or 3. What I have learned throughout the years is not to categorize anyone. When I was younger it was common knowledge that you had to be mixed to have a certain type of hair. But now I know better than that.

 

[HappilyLiberal]

 

[Solitude]

I'm sorry, but race and hair type/texture are tied together. I don't care where you grew up, that's obvious. I didn't comment in that other thread because it's about a little girl and because I get tired of people acting brand new when it comes to hair, skin color, and "race."

 

[CheLala13]

When speaking in large groups, if I had to assume the hair types of 100 AA women, I would say 3a to 4b. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

If I see a darker-skinned woman with a loose hair type, I will not assume that she is mixed or that her parents/grandparents/their parents are mixed. But then again, it's rare for me to see many natural women in the first place.

 

[snillohsss]

Nope. I don't at all.

 

[AHeadOfCoils]

I just typed out this long reply, but deleted it because I'm not up for arguing or "debating" with y'all. That really is a shame.

 

[nappystorm]

I really hope the mods consider my suggestion.

 

[nikkigill]

I think that it's hard to come to a definite conclusion just because most of us that are AA have such mixed backgrounds do to the nature of our origins in this country. We could be pulling genes from way back.

 

[Solitude]

I really hope the mods consider my suggestion.

Yes, I do, too. I commented on your thread in the suggestions section.

 

[kblc06]

I'm sorry, but race and hair type/texture are tied together. I don't care where you grew up, that's obvious. I didn't comment in that other thread because it's about a little girl and because I get tired of people acting brand new when it comes to hair, skin color, and "race."

Solitude

So are AAs with looser hair textures and/or lighter skin more mixed than those with darker skin and/or kinker hair? Why do you feel that way? I think most people of West African have hair somewhere in the 3b-4b range with some variation in between. I'm not mixed and I have type 3 hair and so do both of my parents (who people have mistaken for being West African). And I'm 99.999% we're black with very very little else.

 

[Amoreofcurls]

To Genetics? yes, but not necessarily mixed, and that itself is very unpredictable...

I could never really assume someones hair type is the way it is because they are mixed. I dun almost seen it all, especially in my PURE BLOODED Nigerian side of the fam, and my Carib, and Afro-Latina background...Just just like your my family, mine comes in all shades with wide a range of hair types...

My brothers have darker skin and kinkier hair than mine, so should they have to exclude their background because of that???

Most AA's havent really seen what their hair is like growing up, and it has been said countless times in the nappy community that some didnt expect their hair to be a certain type. Soooooo, if they just so happen to come up with a looser texture, would they all the sudden have to start claiming they are mixed?? Would that take away their blackness??..This also applies to lightskinned blacks...


Its weird because there are cleary not enough naturals in the black community to come up with these hairtype assumptions, its like, how would you know how everyones hair is supposed to be when most are all relaxed up??

Do people who think like this think all Africans (West A. in particular) have the same (4a/4b) hairtype??? I can only wonder...

 

[bravenewgirl87]

Considering what I've learned about science, history and anthropology I would not think any less of a person who assumed that certain hair textures are associated with multiracialism. Africa has one of the largest population of multiethnic people in the world and the content is so vast and varied that it would seem kind of silly to assume that blacks from certain areas are 100% black. And, we should already know that AAs are not 100% anything. It's very common in the caribbean to see blacks with "cooley" hair so imagine you have one grandmother with 2b hair who breeds with someone who has 4a hair...and they keep mixing with textures and skin tones that are conducive to keeping a certain texture alive... viola! Dark-skinned black person with curly hair.

 

[Keen]

Hair traits are heredity. You can't argue biology.

 

[prettypithy]

This is very interesting. I'd say there is often a correlation between mixed heritage and hair type. I am mixed (not biracial but from a mixed black heritage with a few verifiable Scottish, German and Native American contributors) and my appearance reflects my heritage. I don't see why this shouldn't extend to my hair as it does to my complexion and facial features. My mom has dark brown skin but like me, she's genetically mixed, even if she doesn't "look it." And she has 3c hair with almost no shrinkage.

On the flipside, my BFF is biracial with 4b hair. So, yes, it is a genetic crapshoot but, as in actual craps, obviously some combinations are more likely to come up than others. And you are more likely to see a biracial girl with 3b than a 4b biracial girl. What is the problem with admitting that?erplexed

 

[growinghealthyhair]

I'm sorry, but race and hair type/texture are tied together. I don't care where you grew up, that's obvious. I didn't comment in that other thread because it's about a little girl and because I get tired of people acting brand new when it comes to hair, skin color, and "race."

I agree. If this isn't the case, why isn't 4b hair more common in white people?? Or even type one hair being more common in african americans (No i don't want to hear about your cousin, friend, aunt, uncle who fits this category because thats ONE person ) . But seriously. People need to be real with themselves about this!! It has soooooo much to do with genetics!!

 

[bravenewgirl87]

Hair traits are heredity. You can't argue biology.

I think a lot of people don't want to accept this notion because they don't want to accept that their relatives deliberately mated with a person for something as superficial as hair or skin tone. Honestly, I think people here give too much power to race and phenotype. I really don't see anything wrong with people choosing their mates solely to keep a certain feature because all mammals do it.

I also think a lot of AAs sound pretty silly walking around with light skin, small noses, loosely-curled hair and light eyes professing their blackness. To me, that reeks more of self-hate than a person wanting to breed with only light-skinned partners. It's like either you must really think white people weren't there or you think I'm that stupid.

ETA: Let me clarify

Self-hatred, self-loathing, also sometimes autophobia refers to an extreme dislike of oneself, or being angry at oneself. The term is also used to designate a dislike or hatred of a group to which one belongs. For instance, "ethnic self-hatred" is the extreme dislike of one's ethnic group.

To hate yourself as a black person is to walk around afraid to admit that there are other racial components to your background bc you believe the only way you could've been conceived and look the way you do is because of the vestiges of slavery. happy?

 

[EllePixie]

I think there is a stereotypical hair type associated with biracial people, and I know what it is, but it's been proven incorrect time and time again.

 

[shunemite]

There are dark skinned Arabs and Asians who can have "mixed" dark skinned black kids with type 2 or 3 hair (shrugging my shoulders). And I do personally know several Arabs and Asians that have kinky hair and use flat irons and RELAXERS. I think Joy Behar of the View was talking about her natural hair being kinky- Idk if she just blow dries it or actually has a curly perm in it, can't remember.

Hmmm... I'm from Sub-Saharan Africa (came here as an immigrant). Most of my family and extended family are dark skinned and have 4b/ 4z hair. We have very many names for all the types of 4b hair (at least 5 or 6) that are descriptive names more or less, not insulting. I have a few relatives whose hair seems to be in the 3 range and also a few friends like that. We did some trading with the Arabs and Asians a few centuries ago, so maybe that's why, maybe not.

All in all for me to say, yes, some hair types are more common in certain races, but you'd be surprised not everyone fits the "mold".

 

[kblc06]

Hair traits are heredity. You can't argue biology.

I'm not arguing about heredity. What I am doing is challenging the assumption that to be a person Sub-Saharan African descent, you must possess certain phenotypical traits, otherwise you're mixed somewhere down the line . It IS true that physical traits are heritable, but I don't think blacks need "other" genes to possess those traits as was implied in that thread.

 

[MariposaSexyGirl]

I think a lot of people don't want to accept this notion because they don't want to accept that their relatives deliberately mated with a person for something as superficial as hair or skin tone. Honestly, I think people here give too much power to race and phenotype. I really don't see anything wrong with people choosing their mates solely to keep a certain feature because all mammals do it.

I also think a lot of AAs sound pretty silly walking around with light skin, small noses, loosely-curled hair and light eyes professing their blackness. To me, that reeks more of self-hate than a person wanting to breed with only light-skinned partners. It's like either you must really think white people weren't there or you think I'm that stupid.

erplexed I find that very offensive.

 

[Solitude]

Solitude

So are AAs with looser hair textures and/or lighter skin more mixed than those with darker skin and/or kinker hair? Why do you feel that way? I think most people of West African have hair somewhere in the 3b-4b range with some variation in between. I'm not mixed and I have type 3 hair and so do both of my parents (who people have mistaken for being West African). And I'm 99.999% we're black with very very little else.

Yes, they are, whether it's an immediate mix one generation removed or far back. Honestly, you just proved my point by writing AND "very very little else."

A lot of blacks in America don't want to acknowledge how widespread race mixing is/was because it makes you sound "ashamed" of being black. But, it's not just blacks!!!

To me, this is painfully obvious. NOTE: I realize that race theory and genetics are complicated & I don't claim to be an expert at all.

 

[kblc06]

Nothing, and I admitted in my post that this is generally true. HOWEVER, why should it also be a problem to state that there are also a significant amount of black people with who aren't mixed or have very little admixture that possess type 3 and even type 2 hair (again you're probably more like to see type 3c, 4a, and 4b hair amongst black people). I think black people with type 1c/2a and 4-cnapp hair are equally rare.

This is very interesting. I'd say there is often a correlation between mixed heritage and hair type. I am mixed (not biracial but from a mixed black heritage with a few verifiable Scottish, German and Native American contributors) and my appearance reflects my heritage. I don't see why this shouldn't extend to my hair as it does to my complexion and facial features. My mom has dark brown skin but like me, she's genetically mixed, even if she doesn't "look it." And she has 3c hair with almost no shrinkage.

On the flipside, my BFF is biracial with 4b hair. So, yes, it is a genetic crapshoot but, as in actual craps, obviously some combinations are more likely to come up than others. And you are more likely to see a biracial girl with 3b than a 4b biracial girl. What is the problem with admitting that?erplexed

 

[bravenewgirl87]

There are dark skinned Arabs and Asians who can have "mixed" dark skinned black kids with type 2 or 3 hair (shrugging my shoulders). And I do personally know several Arabs and Asians that have kinky hair and use flat irons and RELAXERS. I think Joy Behar of the View was talking about her natural hair being kinky- Idk if she just blow dries it or actually has a curly perm in it, can't remember.

Hmmm... I'm from Sub-Saharan Africa (came here as an immigrant). Most of my family and extended family are dark skinned and have 4b/ 4z hair. We have very many names for all the types of 4b hair (at least 5 or 6) that are descriptive names more or less, not insulting. I have a few relatives whose hair seems to be in the 3 range and also a few friends like that. We did some trading with the Arabs and Asians a few centuries ago, so maybe that's why, maybe not.

All in all for me to say, yes, some hair types are more common in certain races, but you'd be surprised not everyone fits the "mold".

But, you have yo admit, the people who don't fit the mold tend to be mixed. For example, you can clearly see the difference in the textures of a Somalians' hair and say a Sudanese. Somalis are afro-asiatic and their phenotype reflects very specific DNA. Sudanese have a very specific phenotype, too. There's nothing wrong with admitting that due to colonization and the propensity for colorism, black people's physical features have been "diluted" (for lack of better word).

 

[Amoreofcurls]

I think a lot of people don't want to accept this notion because they don't want to accept that their relatives deliberately mated with a person for something as superficial as hair or skin tone. Honestly, I think people here give too much power to race and phenotype. I really don't see anything wrong with people choosing their mates solely to keep a certain feature because all mammals do it.

I also think a lot of AAs sound pretty silly walking around with light skin, small noses, loosely-curled hair and light eyes professing their blackness. To me, that reeks more of self-hate than a person wanting to breed with only light-skinned partners. It's like either you must really think white people weren't there or you think I'm that stupid.

What tha actual fukk???

Wait so people of color dont come in all shades and features???...So errone in Africa walking around with charcoal skin, nappy roots, lookin like Flava flav mixed with bonnet girl????

What if that lighskin black came from two brown/black skin parents???

Why would you identify with clear folks who obviously aint like yo ***, beat, raped because they felt you werent human over people who you obviously came from??? How tha hail could that even compare to self hate?...

 

[bravenewgirl87]

erplexed I find that very offensive.

I've met friends who lie to death about being mixed when they obviously are. My own mother does it and I tell her all the time, "you sound real silly right now". I indulge them but I don't get it. If anything, just don't talk about it. When people ask me, I change the subject. But, why profess that you're someone you're not to prove what to whom? We are all mixed with something so by you dragging on the obvious you're giving far more power to the issue.

 

[Amoreofcurls]

I think there is a stereotypical hair type associated with biracial people, and I know what it is, but it's been proven incorrect time and time again.

You know you aint black enough to have an opinion on this riiiiii????




Thank ya very much though...

 

[lilsparkle825]

Yes, growing up it was usually girls with looser curl patterns that had the long hair in my class....they also usually had a white (or other race) parent. I know that is not everyone's experience, though, so I won't say definitively that what I know is status quo for the entire nation/planet.

I do not automatically think that Afro-Caribbeans, Africans, etc with a loose +/or silky hair texture are mixed. African-Americans I would tend to say yes to faster, simply because we are HEAVILY mixed as a result of slavery.



Come to think of it, I would include Afro-Caribbeans in that category, too, since we all know most of our ancestors from the slave trade went to Central/South America and not to the US. Well....I may tend to think they are mixed to a lesser degree, still, since the proportion of whites to African-born slaves was much different than that here stateside (more slaves per one white person farther south, i.e. Brazil). So in terms of mixed-ness, I would say (greatest to least degree of mixing) AAs > Afro-Caribbeans > Africans.

This is confusing. I'm just talking it out, don't mind me.....

 

[curlyninjagirl]

I really hope the mods consider my suggestion.

OT, but I think it's a little strange to want to try to separate race from the topic of afro-textured hair. The two topics are sorta kinda related.

 

[Solitude]

What tha actual fukk???

Wait so people of color dont come in all shades and features???...So errone in Africa walking around with charcoal skin, nappy roots, lookin like Flava flav mixed with bonnet girl????

What if that lighskin black came from two brown/black skin parents???

Why would you identify with clear folks who obviously aint like yo ***, beat, raped because they felt you werent human over people who you obviously came from??? How tha hail could that even compare to self hate?...

Idk about the rest of your post, but recessive genetic traits are what allow kids to look different from their parents.

For example, a kid may have red hair (a recessive trait) although no one else in the family does.

And....not all race mixing was the result of rape. Especially not in the last century.