I gave this more thought, post-holiday season.
I think the issue of "intention" still skirts around offering up "strange incense".
God punished the Jews for adopting the customs of Pagans and putting a "God" veneer on them.
He made a point to even note little customs like "skipping over the threshold" on a long list of things he punished them for.
That one little detail --God bothered to have it recorded.
He said do not worship him the way Pagans worship their false Gods. Do not offer Him "strange incense". Our intentions are always trumped by what God ultimately wants.
How we celebrate Christmas and what is is, is a textbook example of that, which is what gives me pause with it and with Easter. I don't want to offer God "strange incense" because a man decided to hi-jack a pagan holiday (specifically the birthday of Mithras) and put a veneer of Christ upon it.
Constantine (not the man responsible for the above, I'm just using him as an example) had good "intentions" (politically at least) that have had dire consequences for the Body even today.
I celebrate Christ's birth year round without yule-logs, trees, mistle-toe, etc.
I celebrate Resurrection not "Easter" ("Ishtar" in other words).
The festivities of Christmas tie in too directly with their Pagan origins (for me) to not feel like I'm offering "Strange incense". If He harshly punished the Jews for this (among other things)...why would I do the same thing?
Why am I hanging phallic symbols and decorating my house like a pagan, while singing songs of praise to the One True God?
It just seems odd to me, personally (Read: Me, Moi, Myself, I).
Wow, I didn't know some Christian denominations didn't celebrate those holidays. I just assumed they taught the true meaning behind them instead of the materialistic version.
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Thank you for sharing this information regarding Christmas.Taken from another Christian Forum/Fr. Richard Simon:
I think it's really important for people to know this. It's a very, VERY common perception that Christmas (dec 25th) was originally a pagan holiday that was "baptized". Others put it this way, Christmas hijacked or "over-wrote" an existing pagan celebration. That's nice...which one? There are only three contenders: Winter Solstice, Saturnalia, or Sol Invictus.
Winter Solstice is actually December 21/22nd. The ancient peoples knew this, and would have never made the mistake of celebrating it 3 or 4 days too late. In fact, the movement of the stars, sun, moon, and other heavenly bodies were watched so closely that it is amazing how accurately the astronomers of the time knew what they did with the little technology they had. They knew the times of the solstices and equinoxes with alarming accuracy. Christmas did not replace the Winter Solstice.
Saturnalia was a feast day that was originally celebrated on Dec 17th. Eventually it because so popular that it was celebrated for several days, with feasting and merrymaking going on and on. However, even at the height of its popularity (and its longest duration) it wrapped things up on Dec 23rd. Christmas did not overlap with this holiday.
Sol Invictus was indeed celebrated on Dec 25th! It is the feast of the Undying Sun. However, the cult that started this celebration did not form until 274AD, and was not popular until years after that. Christmas was already being celebrated in several areas on Dec 25th by that time...so this holiday was not over-written to create a new Christian one.
Well...why Dec 25th then, if its not baptizing an existing pagan holiday?
In ancient times, there was kind of a superstitious belief that a great leader or prophet dies on the exact same day that he is conceived. If Christ died on Good Friday, then in many people's minds at the time he must have been conceived on that day as well. Christmas is approximately 9 months after that.
We can't know for sure the exact day that Christ was born on...and the ancient Christians didn't know either...but we should still know that Christmas (Dec 25th) was never a pagan Roman holiday of any sort. It is indeed an original Christian holiday. Sure, there are many other major winter festivals around this time, in many cultures...but the same is true for every season.
It's really fascinating!
Now, go tell someone else...because it seems to be "common knowledge" that Christmas was once pagan.
Interesting!Taken from another Christian Forum/Fr. Richard Simon:
I think it's really important for people to know this. It's a very, VERY common perception that Christmas (dec 25th) was originally a pagan holiday that was "baptized". Others put it this way, Christmas hijacked or "over-wrote" an existing pagan celebration. That's nice...which one? There are only three contenders: Winter Solstice, Saturnalia, or Sol Invictus.
Winter Solstice is actually December 21/22nd. The ancient peoples knew this, and would have never made the mistake of celebrating it 3 or 4 days too late. In fact, the movement of the stars, sun, moon, and other heavenly bodies were watched so closely that it is amazing how accurately the astronomers of the time knew what they did with the little technology they had. They knew the times of the solstices and equinoxes with alarming accuracy. Christmas did not replace the Winter Solstice.
Saturnalia was a feast day that was originally celebrated on Dec 17th. Eventually it because so popular that it was celebrated for several days, with feasting and merrymaking going on and on. However, even at the height of its popularity (and its longest duration) it wrapped things up on Dec 23rd. Christmas did not overlap with this holiday.
Sol Invictus was indeed celebrated on Dec 25th! It is the feast of the Undying Sun. However, the cult that started this celebration did not form until 274AD, and was not popular until years after that. Christmas was already being celebrated in several areas on Dec 25th by that time...so this holiday was not over-written to create a new Christian one.
Well...why Dec 25th then, if its not baptizing an existing pagan holiday?
In ancient times, there was kind of a superstitious belief that a great leader or prophet dies on the exact same day that he is conceived. If Christ died on Good Friday, then in many people's minds at the time he must have been conceived on that day as well. Christmas is approximately 9 months after that.
We can't know for sure the exact day that Christ was born on...and the ancient Christians didn't know either...but we should still know that Christmas (Dec 25th) was never a pagan Roman holiday of any sort. It is indeed an original Christian holiday. Sure, there are many other major winter festivals around this time, in many cultures...but the same is true for every season.
It's really fascinating!
Now, go tell someone else...because it seems to be "common knowledge" that Christmas was once pagan.
Interesting!
Taken from another Christian Forum/Fr. Richard Simon:
I think it's really important for people to know this. It's a very, VERY common perception that Christmas (dec 25th) was originally a pagan holiday that was "baptized". Others put it this way, Christmas hijacked or "over-wrote" an existing pagan celebration. That's nice...which one? There are only three contenders: Winter Solstice, Saturnalia, or Sol Invictus.
Winter Solstice is actually December 21/22nd. The ancient peoples knew this, and would have never made the mistake of celebrating it 3 or 4 days too late. In fact, the movement of the stars, sun, moon, and other heavenly bodies were watched so closely that it is amazing how accurately the astronomers of the time knew what they did with the little technology they had. They knew the times of the solstices and equinoxes with alarming accuracy. Christmas did not replace the Winter Solstice.
Saturnalia was a feast day that was originally celebrated on Dec 17th. Eventually it because so popular that it was celebrated for several days, with feasting and merrymaking going on and on. However, even at the height of its popularity (and its longest duration) it wrapped things up on Dec 23rd. Christmas did not overlap with this holiday.
Sol Invictus was indeed celebrated on Dec 25th! It is the feast of the Undying Sun. However, the cult that started this celebration did not form until 274AD, and was not popular until years after that. Christmas was already being celebrated in several areas on Dec 25th by that time...so this holiday was not over-written to create a new Christian one.
Well...why Dec 25th then, if its not baptizing an existing pagan holiday?
In ancient times, there was kind of a superstitious belief that a great leader or prophet dies on the exact same day that he is conceived. If Christ died on Good Friday, then in many people's minds at the time he must have been conceived on that day as well. Christmas is approximately 9 months after that.
We can't know for sure the exact day that Christ was born on...and the ancient Christians didn't know either...but we should still know that Christmas (Dec 25th) was never a pagan Roman holiday of any sort. It is indeed an original Christian holiday. Sure, there are many other major winter festivals around this time, in many cultures...but the same is true for every season.
It's really fascinating!
Now, go tell someone else...because it seems to be "common knowledge" that Christmas was once pagan.
Good discussion in this thread. I celebrate the birth of Christ and His Resurrection is Life. This is everyday life for those that are walking with Him. Your transformed/changing life, is the mark of His birth and Resurrection.
He is the Ressurrection and the Life. He came to seek and to save that which was lost. He came to destroy the works of the devil.
I just have issues with Christians that teach their children about the birth of Christ and tell them about Santa too. I don't get how people don't see that tellling your kids that Santa is coming to town, is okay.
You are lying to them. And the easter bunny is another distraction. Do you see the pattern?[/B]
Taken from another Christian Forum/Fr. Richard Simon:
I think it's really important for people to know this. It's a very, VERY common perception that Christmas (dec 25th) was originally a pagan holiday that was "baptized". Others put it this way, Christmas hijacked or "over-wrote" an existing pagan celebration. That's nice...which one? There are only three contenders: Winter Solstice, Saturnalia, or Sol Invictus.
Winter Solstice is actually December 21/22nd. The ancient peoples knew this, and would have never made the mistake of celebrating it 3 or 4 days too late. In fact, the movement of the stars, sun, moon, and other heavenly bodies were watched so closely that it is amazing how accurately the astronomers of the time knew what they did with the little technology they had. They knew the times of the solstices and equinoxes with alarming accuracy. Christmas did not replace the Winter Solstice.
Saturnalia was a feast day that was originally celebrated on Dec 17th. Eventually it because so popular that it was celebrated for several days, with feasting and merrymaking going on and on. However, even at the height of its popularity (and its longest duration) it wrapped things up on Dec 23rd. Christmas did not overlap with this holiday.
Sol Invictus was indeed celebrated on Dec 25th! It is the feast of the Undying Sun. However, the cult that started this celebration did not form until 274AD, and was not popular until years after that. Christmas was already being celebrated in several areas on Dec 25th by that time...so this holiday was not over-written to create a new Christian one.
Well...why Dec 25th then, if its not baptizing an existing pagan holiday?
In ancient times, there was kind of a superstitious belief that a great leader or prophet dies on the exact same day that he is conceived. If Christ died on Good Friday, then in many people's minds at the time he must have been conceived on that day as well. Christmas is approximately 9 months after that.
We can't know for sure the exact day that Christ was born on...and the ancient Christians didn't know either...but we should still know that Christmas (Dec 25th) was never a pagan Roman holiday of any sort. It is indeed an original Christian holiday. Sure, there are many other major winter festivals around this time, in many cultures...but the same is true for every season.
It's really fascinating!
Now, go tell someone else...because it seems to be "common knowledge" that Christmas was once pagan.
Rsgal, have you ever been? Does it sound like southern gospel? Or like Lutheran/Catholic?
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The United Church of God does not celebrate any man made holidays. Their main reason is that God outlined in his word what holidays we are to celebrate. They preach that biblical holidays are deeply symbolic representing events that have occured and will occured and are part of the plan of God. I am not UCG but I have attended their church on occation for the last year or so. (I celebrate Christmas-most SDA do, and hearing the resurrection story during Easter with no formal celebration-also SDA tradition).
http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=1062Under such circumstances Easter and its surrounding events can lend themselves to evangelistic outreach without, however, assigning any special religious meaning to the day itself. Wherever there is opportunity to advance the message of Christ without compromising biblical truth, the "wise as serpents, harmless as doves" counsel of Christ is appropriate