Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo Doll

[Shimmie]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

Calling out error is not dissing the Church, it is actually warning the Church. If warning against false teachers and teaching is wrong, then Paul should have not taught the Church concerning it. Paul actually called out some names in the scriptures too.

How old is this information? @Laela, if you go to G. Craige Facebook, he is continously exposing the most popular names.

2 Peter 2:18
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves. .


2 Peter2:
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

At the bolded... the thing is he's always calling people out and it ends up being the truth....

I'm not making fun of this issue; Craige is just 'different'. He puts it all out there. Bless his heart.

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

I understand what you are saying. I listen to Christian rock songs as well, but I think the reason I can is because I don't have a previous attachment to secular rock music. I was never that deep into secular rock music, but secular rap music really got into me.

Plus, you and I are both Christians, so we can appreciate the message in a Christian rock/rap/r&b song. However, what about those who are not Christian?

I think rap has a lot to do with the culture that young black men grow up with. I love soul music...I love me some Anita Baker...It's a part of who I am. It's a part of my identity...so when I hear people like LeAndria Johnson sing...it really takes me there! I'm gone. I think for young black men...hip hop is the language that they speak. It's about putting the gospel in a way they can relate to. It's really all about the uncompromised gospel and getting them saved. Rap is just a tool. I think it actually helps more than hinders. BUT, putting a christian re-write over a secular tunes...that can be a stumbling block for sure!

 

[loolalooh]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

I am posting one of these videos, just because I want to people to be "open" to the fact that this twisting does occur, and how subtly its done. I do not make a habit of watching these videos either, some of them are ridiculous and it is not my hope that we post them here. But I do ask the favor of everyone just looking at this one video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRiC__Qttw

This is a good example. I would've believed him if it weren't for the Bible sitting next to me.

 

[Shimmie]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

I am posting one of these videos, just because I want to people to be "open" to the fact that this twisting does occur, and how subtly its done. I do not make a habit of watching these videos either, some of them are ridiculous and it is not my hope that we post them here. But I do ask the favor of everyone just looking at this one video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRiC__Qttw

Thanks sidney... Watching in 'spurts' at my desk. Will finish at home.

 

[Shimmie]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

I think rap has a lot to do with the culture that young black men grow up with. I love soul music...I love me some Anita Baker...It's a part of who I am. It's a part of my identity...so when I hear people like LeAndria Johnson sing...it really takes me there! I'm gone. I think for young black men...hip hop is the language that they speak. It's about putting the gospel in a way they can relate to. It's really all about the uncompromised gospel and getting them saved. Rap is just a tool. I think it actually helps more than hinders. BUT, putting a christian re-write over a secular tunes...that can be a stumbling block for sure!

I respect how you shared this, regarding rap. I still don't like rap, it gives me a headache; however I still respect what you are saying here.

sidney, who's LeAndria Johnson?

 

[Shimmie]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

Ok, Imma jus go ahead and say this. I do not belong to nor have I ever belonged to a "mega church". I have belonged to some small and some medium sized churches where there was stuff going on from time to time just like in any other family type situation. As a matter of fact I love my present church family yet I am dealing with some mess R-E-T nigh. I will walk in agape love though, yes I will **fanning self @ thoughts of current situation**
The thing is to be Spirit led. I have attended several conferences held by 'mega churches' and I know that God's spirit was present. The whole name it and claim it/ prosperity issue seems to be unbalanced somewhat-IMO. That's all they focus on ($$$) and most importantly there is no fruit of the Spirit being produced. As a matter of fact, they all fall down eventually and are exposed b/c as we know God is not mocked. Out of all the messages I have attended being held by Creflo Dollar, I have never heard him preach and unbalanced prosperity only type message. I have seen ppl post many excerpts online and other places where things were edited and therefore out of context. Besides, what we call 'mega church' is not. Have you read the number of converts or ppl who were following the disciples? Have you seen the number of ppl who attend the meetings in places like India, etc? Lol@ some of us if we attended an event that size. My point is all leader's teachings should be verified by the word. The word says to test the spirits by the Spirit. Prosperity is a natural by product of obedience and faithfulness to our God. Heck he blesses us even when we are not keepin it 100. Simply b/c he loves us. I know I don't deserve the favor and prosperity he has allowed. JMHO

Plus, Pastor shared this statement during a service years ago and it stuck with me because I use to stay in "offense" about everything. He said It is a dangerous thing to be offended. It means you have taken your eyes "off of God and "ended" you ability to hear from Him, when you allow yourself to be "Offended".
I'm going to use this^^It is so true.

This is what I found out...

Many of the 'prosperity' preachers have conferences where they take 'classes' on obtaining offerings. And when you 'hear' the same message from different ones, using the same techniques, same manner, same words,

'Pause'.......

Pushing away from my keyboard for the moment....

 

[Prudent1]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

Let me just say this in general (def not directed at anyone posting here) I am 100% confident that God's will is for his ppl to not be deceived. So, I like these discussions b/c I pray and I also know that God will reveal the truth of all things to his children. IOW, if I find out tomorrow that Pastor Dollar, my pastor, my mama, whoever is fake, it will not separate me from God. The things I share are my current understanding. I also understand that I am constantly learning and being transformed into His image.

 

[SummerSolstice]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

@Lissa0821 Where'd you go? i'm curious to hear more about your church. Just because every time I look up a Creflo video I'm like HUH??? He does seem to preach about prosperity in the WORLD and not in HEAVEN where we are to build our true wealth. Just a thought please give us some insight.

This video for instance did not rub me right. I worked for my pastor and I have watched as God has provided throughout many struggles while he ministers to a LARGE congregation. What inspires me most about my pastor is that he drives a simple 2007 Jeep something or other... and his house is similar to those of most of our congregation.

The part where he (Creflo) talks about not turning down a Leer Jet and a Rolls Royce? That part just shamed me because there are many MANY Christians who don't eat and could use that money. Why not sell these items and use the money for ministry? It doesn't make sense to me. I have been witness to the fact that true ministry is a struggle, is not easy, and is often accompanied by poverty and a lack of material things.

Please don't be offended, I just want to hear your perspective since you are actually there, and I am not. All I have to go on is what I have heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCS0YHm_58c

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

@sidney, Sure I am open to discuss prosperity but I must say God started the conversation of Prosperity not Creflo Dollar, when he showed up in Genesis 12:1-3 speaking with Abram. I am aware of the accusations that the teaching of World Changers Church International are based on financial prosperity only. But that is so far from the truth, we are taught total life prosperity which entails, healing, wholeness, soundness of body and mind, preservation from destruction, salvation of family, enjoying the presence of the Holy Spirit, taking authority over demonic forces, list goes on and yes it includes material wealth as well.

Prosperity is God's delight for us as believers, I know this from John 2:3, which states He wants to prosper and be in health even as my soul prospers. This shows God is concerned about my physical, health and soul prosperity.

Psalm 112 talks about the man that fears and delights in the commandment of God and its reward. His kids are blessed, wealth and riches are in his house. He is gracious, shows favor and is able to lend to others. He is not fearful as he trust in God. He is exalted with honor.

The list of scriptures goes on and on, prosperity is absolutely the WILL of God for me, that is a settled issue in my heart for me.

Thank you for sharing your understanding. I agree with you, and what Prudent said...God has good plans for us. Prosperous plans! But, the prosperity message today actually in my opinion, paradoxically HINDERS people from realizing a lot of these things. Why? Because it teachers people to seek things first! It teaches us to use the word and God as a means to accumulate more stuff for ourselves. When God's word says the opposite...he says seek me first! And all of these things are ADDED. When we seek God's face and not his hands, he blesses us. When we delight in the Lord(1st commandment) he gives us our desires. When we tie love and faithfulness about our necks (second commandment), we win favor Proverbs 3:3 with God and he causes us to be blessed. And it's got to be sincere, God knows our hearts. We have to truly lay down our lives and give of our selves...God can't use God's word for personal gain. Let me show you where I found some real prosperity gospel.

Matthew 19:29
"And every one who has left houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for the sake of the gospel, shall receive a hundredfold, and shall inherit life eternal."

The true gospel causes us to lay down our lives and follow him. John13:38 In fact, it says, it will cost you everything! Luke 14:25-35. Just like that rich young ruler in that video where Creflo twisted the scripture. You can't just give a thousand dollars and get 100,000 like a ATM machine. We will be turning down some real stuff. People will lose a lot and suffer for the gospel. We have to identify with Christ's sufferings. He didn't die on a cross so that we can get a car. No, he died so that we can join him in his sufferings...that we may later reign with him. 2 Timothy 2:12. This is the gospel. The rich young ruler had to give up everything to be Christ's disciple just like the other 12. But he refused.

But there is more with the Matthew 19:29 scripture above. As I stated before, he promises persecutions too. So that our hearts are not in it for gain, but because we lay down our lives because we love him...we love his people. And we do it because he bought us with a price! Here's the persecutions part.

Mark 10:30
He not will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.

He does not tell us what the hundredfold will be! Is is money? Maybe for some. Is it homes, relationships, yes! But regardless of what it is...we have to die to self and give up everything to follow him and see what God has for us. But see I know he is a show off, he has great things in store. And he wants us to humbly ask for those things...not force them with scripture. That is the real gospel. He spoke this to the disciples.They walked away from careers to follow God. They gave up everything. Yet nowhere in scripture do I see them naming and claiming wealth, health, and promotions. Nope, I see them suffering persecution for the sake of the gospel. I see Paul and Timothy with physical illness. Paul went hungry on several occasions! That's what I see. BUT...because God is good...he does give us good things. When we have a humble attitude and come to him seeking his will...he gives us MORE than we asked for. Look at Solomon's attitude, he asked for wisdom to lead his people. And what did God do? He blessed him with wealth greater than any man who has ever lived. It's really about our hearts. When he is our delight and our hearts are right...he gives to us according to his will, not ours! The prosperity doctrine actually hinders that by teaching us to gain more and more for self. In fact, the bible says that selfish ambition is the root of every evil. James 4:13. Instead, of selfish ambition, he says...seek to esteem others greater than yourselves, Phillipians 2:3.

God tells us not to store up treasures on this earth...but prosperity teachers teach us the opposite. Please what it says here in I Timothy 6:

These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 6But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
Final Charge to Timothy

11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
---
For some. prosperity doctrine can actually lead away from the faith. Because people fall into selfish ambition and idolatry. And we don't know the spiritual state they are in...we know from scripture will depart from the faith because they were never with us. 2 John 2:19. Selfish ambition and Idolatry are listed in the things (Galatians 5:19-23) that will keep people from inheriting the kingdom of heaven. These are some of the dangers I find with prosperity teaching...Sorry for the long post.

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

@Lissa0821 Where'd you go? i'm curious to hear more about your church. Just because every time I look up a Creflo video I'm like HUH??? He does seem to preach about prosperity in the WORLD and not in HEAVEN where we are to build our true wealth. Just a thought please give us some insight.

This video for instance did not rub me right. I worked for my pastor and I have watched as God has provided throughout many struggles while he ministers to a LARGE congregation. What inspires me most about my pastor is that he drives a simple 2007 Jeep something or other... and his house is similar to those of most of our congregation.

The part where he (Creflo) talks about not turning down a Leer Jet and a Rolls Royce? That part just shamed me because there are many MANY Christians who don't eat and could use that money. Why not sell these items and use the money for ministry? It doesn't make sense to me. I have been witness to the fact that true ministry is a struggle, is not easy, and is often accompanied by poverty and a lack of material things.

Please don't be offended, I just want to hear your perspective since you are actually there, and I am not. All I have to go on is what I have heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCS0YHm_58c

These are all great points, thank you for sharing.

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

I respect how you shared this, regarding rap. I still don't like rap, it gives me a headache; however I still respect what you are saying here.

@sidney, who's LeAndria Johnson?

You don't know about Leadria? You're missing out. Awesome testimony. She is a preacher's kid, divorced, single mother who lost her house right before she came on Sunday's Best. She won, her testimony is "I may have lost my house, but God has a mansion for me." She really loves the Lord..and she can SAAANG! Here's her slaying them right now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztOUSP8YJ90

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf1iyEQ5-tI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHFDGDaFiW4&feature=related

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

LeAndria Johnson was the winner of that sham of a show called Sunday's Best...she can really sing, I pray that she stays grounded...

I respect how you shared this, regarding rap. I still don't like rap, it gives me a headache; however I still respect what you are saying here.

@sidney, who's LeAndria Johnson?

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

sidney this my jam right here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVUS7QJbOlU

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

LeAndria Johnson was the winner of that sham of a show called Sunday's Best...she can really sing, I pray that she stays grounded...

at the bolded.. Say What?

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

@sidney this my jam right here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVUS7QJbOlU

Oh my, I'm Slain! Yeeeesssssss! Jesus! She must know those Clarke sisters, lol!

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

Health&hair28 I said it, when you have the Pastor Kim Burrell telling a aspiring hopeful to not sing 'churchy' and sing 'sensual' ...screech full stop! something is very wrong...

 

[Lissa0821]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

SummerSolstice I am still here, Pastor teaches about everything concerns our lives, and I mean everything. I think the emphasis of scrutiny that this ministry experiences is his passion for Christians to understand prosperity is a part of the deal. It is more than just escaping hell but there is abundant life to be lived (John 10:10) and enjoyed as God's child.

There is really no way to build prosperity toward Heaven and not experience every other aspect of prosperity of God here on earth. The bible teaches to seek first the kingdom of God and these "things" shall be added to you (Matthew 6:25). It is through your meditation of scriptures, scriptural based prayers, yielding to the leadership of God, your tithes and offerings that a believer can expect to experience prosperity here in this world and in the heaven. Heck like someone else said, God will bless you in spite of you too. Thank God for that. What I have been taught is prosperity is not just for you to take care you and yours but to further the message of God.

Now about the Leer Jet and Rolls Royce, at the time of that interview which took place in 2009, I just smiled because a few details were left out. Yes, the ministry did give Pastor a Rolls Royce as a Pastor appreciation gift. I had only been at the ministry for a few months at this time in 1996. The concept to give him the Rolls Royce I believe came from him sharing a teaching about Mark 11:22, which talked about saying with your mouth and believing in your heart. From what I was told, he was sharing how he was putting this scripture into practice in his own life in believing for a Rolls Royce. I think that is something he saw as too big to have unless God did it for him.

What is also not shared, the number of testimonies of people who experience some sort of financial increase as what they believe was a direct result of sowing into this gift at the time, from obtaining new cars, new jobs, mortgages paid off and the list goes on. It was also not shared that there wasn't another corporate Pastor appreciation gift given to Pastor for over 10 years nor that fact there were times Pastor refused to receive a salary.

Now there will always be poor amongst us, Christian or not. Philippians 4:19 And my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. That is God's final word, it is not altered based on what a Pastor chooses to drive or live.

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

@SummerSolstice I am still here, Pastor teaches about everything concerns our lives, and I mean everything. I think the emphasis of scrutiny that this ministry experiences is his passion for Christians to understand prosperity is a part of the deal. It is more than just escaping hell but there is abundant life to be lived (John 10:10) and enjoyed as God's child.

There is really no way to build prosperity toward Heaven and not experience every other aspect of prosperity of God here on earth. The bible teaches to seek first the kingdom of God and these "things" shall be added to you (Matthew 6:25). It is through your meditation of scriptures, scriptural based prayers, yielding to the leadership of God, your tithes and offerings that a believer can expect to experience prosperity here in this world and in the heaven. Heck like someone else said, God will bless you in spite of you too. Thank God for that. What I have been taught is prosperity is not just for you to take care you and yours but to further the message of God.

Now about the Leer Jet and Rolls Royce, at the time of that interview which took place in 2009, I just smiled because a few details were left out. Yes, the ministry did give Pastor a Rolls Royce as a Pastor appreciation gift. I had only been at the ministry for a few months at this time in 1996. The concept to give him the Rolls Royce I believe came from him sharing a teaching about Mark 11:22, which talked about saying with your mouth and believing in your heart. From what I was told, he was sharing how he was putting this scripture into practice in his own life in believing for a Rolls Royce. I think that is something he saw as too big to have unless God did it for him.

What is also not shared, the number of testimonies of people who experience some sort of financial increase as what they believe was a direct result of sowing into this gift at the time, from obtaining new cars, new jobs, mortgages paid off and the list goes on. It was also not shared that there wasn't another corporate Pastor appreciation gift given to Pastor for over 10 years nor that fact there were times Pastor refused to receive a salary.

Now there will always be poor amongst us, Christian or not. Philippians 4:19 And my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. That is God's final word, it is not altered based on what a Pastor chooses to drive or live.

Lissa, are there parts of your pastor's teaching that you disagree with based on what has been shared here on from your own studies? Do you see any inconsistencies? Not so much the jet but the scriptural things.

 

[aribell]

I'm not into rap, but I respect the message. I used to be more of a purist about such things, including Christian pop/rock. And then I just decided to listen to the contemporary Christian station and judge by the fruit of it. And looking at the fruit in my life and that of people in the city who call in to share how the music impacts them spiritually, it's impossible for me to take issue with it. Not all music may fit in a worship service or sanctuary, but it might still serve a purpose in the message that it communicates.

 

[Prudent1]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

@Lissa0821 Where'd you go? i'm curious to hear more about your church. Just because every time I look up a Creflo video I'm like HUH??? He does seem to preach about prosperity in the WORLD and not in HEAVEN where we are to build our true wealth. Just a thought please give us some insight.

This video for instance did not rub me right. I worked for my pastor and I have watched as God has provided throughout many struggles while he ministers to a LARGE congregation. What inspires me most about my pastor is that he drives a simple 2007 Jeep something or other... and his house is similar to those of most of our congregation.

The part where he (Creflo) talks about not turning down a Leer Jet and a Rolls Royce? That part just shamed me because there are many MANY Christians who don't eat and could use that money. Why not sell these items and use the money for ministry? It doesn't make sense to me. I have been witness to the fact that true ministry is a struggle, is not easy, and is often accompanied by poverty and a lack of material things.

Please don't be offended, I just want to hear your perspective since you are actually there, and I am not. All I have to go on is what I have heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCS0YHm_58c

I know this was not directed at me and this question is not directed at you either SumSolso when I say you, I don't mean you personally but a general 'you' as all who have contributed to this post. See, this is what I don't understand. If someone posts something on YT as a sermon by whoever but I have in my posession the same message in it's entirety on DVD which is not taken out of context or altered in any way, why is it easier to believe the version shown on YT is accurate? I guess I'm just strange when it comes to stuff like that. I was having this convo IRL when I asked the other person if they would tell me the name of the message they were referencing so I could listen to it in it's entirety and that got me a major side eye. I treat YT, blogs, etc like I treat the evening news. Everything shown is not the unadulterated truth. I heard something about the jet and car too. From what I understand, ppl have gifted him certain things and he turned them down. This actually offended God (so to speak) b/c he uses ppl to bless us sometimes. God basically told him he wanted him to have the gift. That he was the Giver behind the giver. As for the jet, a regular small town pastor is called on all hours of the day and expected to be present in a number of situations. How can you have a world wide ministry and be placed on stand by at the airport or not have other reliable transportation? Why can Tyler Perry have a jet or a business person but not a spiritual leader? How come foul living athletes and entertainers who are awesome entertainers but dumb as a rock in every other aspect have these things but a pastor should sell, sell, sell? I'll bet if you look at the charitable donations made by many spiritual leaders and then look at the donations by entertainers and those we hold in high esteem, you'd be surprised at the % ratio to income difference. What if God blesses you abundantly? At what point would you refuse to accept anymore? Would you refuse it even if he told you it was not his will?

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

I know this was not directed at me and this question is not directed at you either SumSolso when I say you, I don't mean you personally but a general 'you' as all who have contributed to this post. See, this is what I don't understand. If someone posts something on YT as a sermon by whoever but I have in my posession the same message in it's entirety on DVD which is not taken out of context or altered in any way, why is it easier to believe the version shown on YT is accurate? I guess I'm just strange when it comes to stuff like that. I was having this convo IRL when I asked the other person if they would tell me the name of the message they were referencing so I could listen to it in it's entirety and that got me a major side eye. I treat YT, blogs, etc like I treat the evening news. Everything shown is not the unadulterated truth. I heard something about the jet and car too. From what I understand, ppl have gifted him certain things and he turned them down. This actually offended God (so to speak) b/c he uses ppl to bless us sometimes. God basically told him he wanted him to have the gift. That he was the Giver behind the giver. As for the jet, a regular small town pastor is called on all hours of the day and expected to be present in a number of situations. How can you have a world wide ministry and be placed on stand by at the airport or not have other reliable transportation? Why can Tyler Perry have a jet or a business person but not a spiritual leader? How come foul living athletes and entertainers who are awesome entertainers but dumb as a rock in every other aspect have these things but a pastor should sell, sell, sell? I'll bet if you look at the charitable donations made by many spiritual leaders and then look at the donations by entertainers and those we hold in high esteem, you'd be surprised at the % ratio to income difference. What if God blesses you abundantly? At what point would you refuse to accept anymore? Would you refuse it even if he told you it was not his will?

I like your points Prudent. I agree with you, I don't think that everyone will be broke either. Some people in the kingdom will make a lot of money. I think the more we have, the greater responsibility to give. "To whomsoever much is given, much will be required." ETA: Because as someone mentioned before, the word says the poor will always be with us. I saw one scripture that said, if you have two suits, and someone has none, give him one suit. I guess that goes with treating people as yourself. As for the videos, they can be edited and probably are. I think in that particular video though, Creflo definitely said the man gave an inherited 100X but that is not the case. He went away sorrowful.

 

[BostonMaria]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

Lissa0821 I listen to Creflo Dollar's podcast every week. I travel to Atlanta a few times a year and I would love to attend church service at the dome.

I was brought up to believe that being prosperous was bad and being poor was humble. His podcasts have shown me that being poor does NOT mean I'm humble and going to heaven LOL Poverty is a curse. I realized that there are spiritual gifts that God wants me to have, that Jesus died for me so I could have, and I should believe God for it. Am I praying for a jet and a mansion? No of course not. Nothing wrong with those things, but its ok to ask my father to bless me so I can be a blessing to others.

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

True, it does make sense they would need jets...otherwise ministry would be extremely difficult. Unless they were willing to be very inconvenienced to help other people with what they save. But I think having the jets have to do with the message, you have to look the part you teach or it will be hard for the people to accept the viability of the message.

 

[Prudent1]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

I like your points Prudent. I agree with you, I don't think that everyone will be broke either. Some people in the kingdom will make a lot of money. I think the more we have, the greater responsibility to give. "To whomsoever much is given, much will be required." I saw one scripture that said, if you have two suits, and someone has none, give him one suit. I guess that goes with treating people as yourself. As for the videos, they can be edited and probably are. I think in that particular video though, Creflo definitely said the man gave an inherited 100X but that is not the case. He went away sorrowful.

sidney,
Oh yeah how could I forget to stress what someone else said up thread. We are all blessed to be a blessing-period. That's the main thing and should NOT be forgotten or confused at all! Yes, we will enjoy some things as well but we are not to merely be consumers. God is not pleased with that behavior at all! We will have the poor among us not because God plays fovorites but b/c some ppl do not understand giving is far more important than receiving so they are tight fisted and some poor are poor b/c they make foolish choices with their resources. The problem is not one of limited resources but of flawed humanity. Both of these scenarios are the result of selfishness.

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

@Lissa0821 I listen to Creflo Dollar's podcast every week. I travel to Atlanta a few times a year and I would love to attend church service at the dome.

I was brought up to believe that being prosperous was bad and being poor was humble. His podcasts have shown me that being poor does NOT mean I'm humble and going to heaven LOL Poverty is a curse. I realized that there are spiritual gifts that God wants me to have, that Jesus died for me so I could have, and I should believe God for it. Am I praying for a jet and a mansion? No of course not. Nothing wrong with those things, but its ok to ask my father to bless me so I can be a blessing to others.

Yeah, I don't think we have to be poor, I think what Paul was saying to I Timothy 6 was just to avoid teaching that tells you to use the gospel to become rich. Ok, i really should be studying...

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

@sidney,
Oh yeah how could I forget to stress what someone else said up thread. We are all blessed to be a blessing-period. That's the main thing and should NOT be forgotten or confused at all! Yes, we will enjoy some things as well but we are not to merely be consumers. God is not pleased with that behavior at all! We will have the poor among us not because God plays fovorites but b/c some ppl do not understand giving is far more important than receiving so they are tight fisted and some poor are poor b/c they make foolish choices with their resources. The problem is not one of limited resources but of flawed humanity. Both of these scenarios are the result of selfishness.

Amen! That's good! God allows some of us to be poor to teach us this important lesson. I love it!

 

[Lissa0821]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

Lissa, are there parts of your pastor's teaching that you disagree with based on what has been shared here on from your own studies? Do you see any inconsistencies? Not so much the jet but the scriptural things.

I have truly been called to be a part of this ministry, I am aligned with the vision of this ministry and am confident this is where I am suppose to at this point of my walk with God. No, I do not pick and choose the parts of his teaching that will I will accept or disagree with. Its never really crossed my mind to look for inconsistency at my church or any other ministry service I have attended. I pretty much have tunnel vision "God help me".

I usually ask God to speak to me in this service before I enter the building, that is what I grew up hearing my mother say when I went to church with her. Most of the time, I usually hear something God ALREADY said to me earlier during the service, that I may have ignored or not taken seriously. I pretty much get more confirmation of what God has said to me.

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

I know this was not directed at me and this question is not directed at you either SumSolso when I say you, I don't mean you personally but a general 'you' as all who have contributed to this post. See, this is what I don't understand. If someone posts something on YT as a sermon by whoever but I have in my posession the same message in it's entirety on DVD which is not taken out of context or altered in any way, why is it easier to believe the version shown on YT is accurate? I guess I'm just strange when it comes to stuff like that. I was having this convo IRL when I asked the other person if they would tell me the name of the message they were referencing so I could listen to it in it's entirety and that got me a major side eye. I treat YT, blogs, etc like I treat the evening news. Everything shown is not the unadulterated truth. I heard something about the jet and car too. From what I understand, ppl have gifted him certain things and he turned them down. This actually offended God (so to speak) b/c he uses ppl to bless us sometimes. God basically told him he wanted him to have the gift. That he was the Giver behind the giver. As for the jet, a regular small town pastor is called on all hours of the day and expected to be present in a number of situations. How can you have a world wide ministry and be placed on stand by at the airport or not have other reliable transportation? Why can Tyler Perry have a jet or a business person but not a spiritual leader? How come foul living athletes and entertainers who are awesome entertainers but dumb as a rock in every other aspect have these things but a pastor should sell, sell, sell? I'll bet if you look at the charitable donations made by many spiritual leaders and then look at the donations by entertainers and those we hold in high esteem, you'd be surprised at the % ratio to income difference. What if God blesses you abundantly? At what point would you refuse to accept anymore? Would you refuse it even if he told you it was not his will?

Prudent, I think I am missing a part of your message? So to some degree the church ministries should look the part?

 

[loolalooh]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

SummerSolstice I am still here, Pastor teaches about everything concerns our lives, and I mean everything. I think the emphasis of scrutiny that this ministry experiences is his passion for Christians to understand prosperity is a part of the deal. It is more than just escaping hell but there is abundant life to be lived (John 10:10) and enjoyed as God's child.

There is really no way to build prosperity toward Heaven and not experience every other aspect of prosperity of God here on earth. The bible teaches to seek first the kingdom of God and these "things" shall be added to you (Matthew 6:25). It is through your meditation of scriptures, scriptural based prayers, yielding to the leadership of God, your tithes and offerings that a believer can expect to experience prosperity here in this world and in the heaven. Heck like someone else said, God will bless you in spite of you too. Thank God for that. What I have been taught is prosperity is not just for you to take care you and yours but to further the message of God.

Now about the Leer Jet and Rolls Royce, at the time of that interview which took place in 2009, I just smiled because a few details were left out. Yes, the ministry did give Pastor a Rolls Royce as a Pastor appreciation gift. I had only been at the ministry for a few months at this time in 1996. The concept to give him the Rolls Royce I believe came from him sharing a teaching about Mark 11:22, which talked about saying with your mouth and believing in your heart. From what I was told, he was sharing how he was putting this scripture into practice in his own life in believing for a Rolls Royce. I think that is something he saw as too big to have unless God did it for him.

What is also not shared, the number of testimonies of people who experience some sort of financial increase as what they believe was a direct result of sowing into this gift at the time, from obtaining new cars, new jobs, mortgages paid off and the list goes on. It was also not shared that there wasn't another corporate Pastor appreciation gift given to Pastor for over 10 years nor that fact there were times Pastor refused to receive a salary.

Now there will always be poor amongst us, Christian or not. Philippians 4:19 And my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. That is God's final word, it is not altered based on what a Pastor chooses to drive or live.

Thank you for being so open to share.

This discussion on Prosperity Gospel is interesting. I've been against it for some time. However, reading your posts reveals a different, more moderate side to the doctrine. (I used to attend Joel Osteen's church and did believe his messages were good ones; however, I needed more of the Word, so I moved to another church. It was after leaving his church and seeing him and others in interviews, that I started questioning Prosperity Gospel.)

I need to go back through this thread and read all the related prosperity posts, and then let them marinate.

 

[sidney]

Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo

I have truly been called to be a part of this ministry, I am aligned with the vision of this ministry and am confident this is where I am suppose to at this point of my walk with God. No, I do not pick and choose the parts of his teaching that will I will accept or disagree with. Its never really crossed my mind to look for inconsistency at my church or any other ministry service I have attended. I pretty much have tunnel vision "God help me".

I usually ask God to speak to me in this service before I enter the building, that is what I grew up hearing my mother say when I went to church with her. Most of the time, I usually hear something God ALREADY said to me earlier during the service, that I may have ignored or not taken seriously. I pretty much get more confirmation of what God has said to me.

Still thinking about this thread. Lissa, I'm interested in knowing why you don't double check the teaching with the word. Do you think this undermines leadership? Or do you feel that God filters everything for you? ...I'm guessing that's what you meant by tunnel vision. Just wondering what you have been taught on this issue.