BKT alternative?

[Kurlee]

I think sulfites are "safer" but there aren't enough good reviews for them.

safer as far as what we know about it health wise, but not healthier on the hair.

 

[Dove56]

safer as far as what we know about it health wise, but not healthier on the hair.

Exactly. Which why I will probably go back QOD Max Organiq and just stick with cystine treatments. Plus, Organiq doesn't have any other chemicals attached to their cystine. I don't want to screw my hair up with chemicals.

 

[Damaged but not out]

what question were they evading?

I am transitioning(relaxed-natural), looking to buy the IRS foam, but I just have a few questions beforehand?

Is there a mimimum time that you recommend between treatments? Or, can I apply the treatment as often as I want until I achieve the desired result? e.g. If I apply the treatment for the first time, and it is not what I expect, can I apply again without waiting for 3 months until the treatment wears off, like the CHI Enviro system?
How would salt water affect the product, I'm going on vacation the week of the appointment and would like to go the sea?
Do detailed instructions come with the foam?
Will this affect the highlights I had done last year?
I currently use Kera Care products, will these be suitable for aftercare. Are they any products I should avoid?
Are sample sizes of the Luxe Defining Cream available?
Are protein products recommended, I use chi keratin mist


I called(left messages), I traded emails with 3 different ppl. Never received an answer.
Emailed DE Memorial Day wknd got an answer Tuesday.

 

[Kurlee]

I am transitioning(relaxed-natural), looking to buy the IRS foam, but I just have a few questions beforehand?

Is there a mimimum time that you recommend between treatments? Or, can I apply the treatment as often as I want until I achieve the desired result? e.g. If I apply the treatment for the first time, and it is not what I expect, can I apply again without waiting for 3 months until the treatment wears off, like the CHI Enviro system?
How would salt water affect the product, I'm going on vacation the week of the appointment and would like to go the sea?
Do detailed instructions come with the foam?
Will this affect the highlights I had done last year?
I currently use Kera Care products, will these be suitable for aftercare. Are they any products I should avoid?
Are sample sizes of the Luxe Defining Cream available?
Are protein products recommended, I use chi keratin mist


I called(left messages), I traded emails with 3 different ppl. Never received an answer.
Emailed DE Memorial Day wknd got an answer Tuesday.

wow. i got replies really quickly.

 

[luckiestdestiny]

removed duplicate

 

[luckiestdestiny]

safer as far as what we know about it health wise, but not healthier on the hair.

OK so can we have a list of the ones that are healthier on the hair because I'm really now

List if anyone has it
1) Healthiest on hair
2) safest overall (can include repetitions if it fits into more than one category)
3) Possible have glyoxyloyl/oxoacetamide carbocysteine (which is carbocysteine attached to the glyoxylic acid) and possibly needs watching (can include repetitions)

 

[luckiestdestiny]

OK so can we have a list of the ones that are healthier on the hair because I'm really now

List if anyone has it
1) Healthiest on hair
2) safest overall (can include repetitions if it fits into more than one category)
3) Possible have glyoxyloyl/oxoacetamide carbocysteine (which is carbocysteine attached to the glyoxylic acid) and possibly needs watching (can include repetitions)

I'm going to take a stab at it...please correct me if I'm off if anyone has the answers or even let me know I'm on the right track.
1)=cysteine treatments
2)=sulfite treatments and cysteine treatments without additives attached
3) most cysteine treatments.

Is that correct?

 

[luckiestdestiny]

Also Dove56 you mentioned cysteine having possible thio...are you talking
arosci and DE? Or just others...
Are there any links to that?

Thanks for anything you can provide.

 

[Kurlee]

I think the Carbocysteine ones (DE and Arosci and Essations) are the healthiest for the hair, followed by the sulfite ones. I kind of side eye QOD max, because I don't think Carbocysteine alone can produce those results. Also, they were already caught in 2010 making false claims that their stuff had no formaldehyde and it really did and they qualified with the silly statement that is on their website now. Out of all the companies, i am least inclined to try them, tbh.

 

[Peppermynt]

OK, so I called the Essations # - the Naked product ($89) and kit (which is a great deal at $125) is apparently only sold to licensed professionals.

Not sure how someone found the below link because I can't even navigate to it going through the retail store.

(ETA - As a lark I threw an Essations kit into the cart and the website doesn't appear to challenge whether I have a license, so maybe they aren't that sophisticated ...?)

Is someone on here a licensed professional?

http://www.mauricedistribution.com/catalog/item/8464056/9302934.htm

I also looked at the DE link and the only DE product available is the Transitioning Mousse which is the product for straighter hair.

http://www.paynesbeautysupply.com/deesstthtrmo.html

I'd prefer the DE Elongation mousse.

That leaves the Arosci ... I assume that since a few of us have ordered the sample size that it is sold to the general public?

 

[Kurlee]

OK, so I called the Essations # - the Naked product ($89) and kit (which is a great deal at $125) is apparently only sold to licensed professionals.

Not sure how someone found the below link because I can't even navigate to it going through the retail store.

(ETA - As a lark I threw an Essations kit into the cart and the website doesn't appear to challenge whether I have a license, so maybe they aren't that sophisticated ...?)

Is someone on here a licensed professional?

http://www.mauricedistribution.com/catalog/item/8464056/9302934.htm

I also looked at the DE link and the only DE product available is the Transitioning Mousse which is the product for straighter hair.

http://www.paynesbeautysupply.com/deesstthtrmo.html

I'd prefer the DE Elongation mousse.

That leaves the Arosci ... I assume that since a few of us have ordered the sample size that it is sold to the general public?

You can easily buy the Arosci. Essations seems possible to get from that link and DE is the hardest to get. I'd prefer the elongation mousse as well, but we haven't found a link to that yet.

 

[Dove56]

Also Dove56 you mentioned cysteine having possible thio...are you talking
arosci and DE? Or just others...
Are there any links to that?

Thanks for anything you can provide.

luckiestdestiny

I read about carbocyestine being a "thio compound" in this article:

http://www.milady.cengage.com/eNewsJuly2011/featurearticle.asp

The author of the article lists the ingredient 'carbocisteine'...hmmm...two different spellings. I wonder if those are different chemicals or the same chemical with a different spelling. I'll have to find out.

Here's another article on cyestine treatments:

http://izzocutter.com/new-technology-a-non-formaldehyde-relaxer/

 

[Dove56]

You can easily buy the Arosci. Essations seems possible to get from that link and DE is the hardest to get. I'd prefer the elongation mousse as well, but we haven't found a link to that yet.

Kurlee

Peppermynt

I just called Payne's Beauty Supply to find out about ordering the Elongation Mousse. The lady took my information and the owner is going to call me back. I will give you all an update as soon as I find out.

 

[Dove56]

I think the Carbocysteine ones (DE and Arosci and Essations) are the healthiest for the hair, followed by the sulfite ones. I kind of side eye QOD max, because I don't think Carbocysteine alone can produce those results. Also, they were already caught in 2010 making false claims that their stuff had no formaldehyde and it really did and they qualified with the silly statement that is on their website now. Out of all the companies, i am least inclined to try them, tbh.

That sorta ticks me off about QOD as well. I spent a pretty penny on a 33oz bottle of 0.02% formeldahyde QOD Max only to find out I was putting dern near 3.52% formeldahye in my hair! No WONDER my hair got bone straight!

I'm glad there are other alternatives out there and I am especially glad that DE, Arosci and Essations are marketed to Black women.

 

[Kurlee]

That sorta ticks me off about QOD as well. I spent a pretty penny on a 33oz bottle of 0.02% formeldahyde QOD Max only to find out I was putting dern near 3.52% formeldahye in my hair! No WONDER my hair got bone straight!

I'm glad there are other altneratives out there and I am especially glad that they DE, Arosci and Essations are marketed to Black women.

They are the most economical, but I simply don't trust the company. If they could lie like that before, get caught and then keep that same explanation up two years later and claim "new ingredients" . . . . mmmm, not buying it.

 

[Dove56]

They are the most economical, but I simply don't trust the company. If they could lie like that before, get caught and then keep that same explanation up two years later and claim "new ingredients" . . . . mmmm, not buying it.

Yep. I had excellent results with them but I'm scratching them off the list. There's no point in supporting a company that blatantly lies to their customers. I am *dying* to try the Elongation Mousse in a few months anyway!

Plus, their products are made in Brazil so who knows WHAT in the world is in that product!

 

[bosswitch]

Everytime this thread gets bumped to the first page I start thinking about that Organixx 30 day BKT I have laying around the house...

Can we put all this info into a google doc or blog post or something, just so that the information is easier to view. I'd be willing to start compiling the info as long as y'all can help with corrections.

 

[Kurlee]

This part of the article is cause for concern and expresses exactly how I feel.

Some products contain formaldehyde's cousins such as gluteraldehyde or glyoxal and are marketed as formaldehyde free, even though they function in exactly the same manner as formaldehyde. These formaldehyde substitutes expose the stylists and their customers to the exact same health risks as formaldehyde. Although gluteraldehyde or glyoxal are weaker than formaldehyde, they may be used in higher concentrations in order to achieve the same results.

Another newly reformulated "formaldehyde free" keratin smoothing treatment contains carbocisteine, a thio compound similar to that used in permanent waving. Several keratin smoothing treatments now claim to be formaldehyde free, but since some products that were found to contain formaldehyde were advertised as formaldehyde free, it's difficult to tell who is telling the truth.

 

[bosswitch]

Yep. I had excellent results with them but I'm scratching them off the list. There's no point in supporting a company that blatantly lies to their customers. I am *dying* to try the Elongation Mousse in a few months anyway!

Plus, their products are made in Brazil so who knows WHAT in the world is in that product!

Is this from QOD?

 

[Dove56]

Is this from QOD?

bosswitch

The Elongation Mousse is from Design Essentials.

 

[Kurlee]

I think I'm back on team wait-and-see. Something in the milk ain't clean. I know glyoxal and glyoxylic acid are very similar, but yea, the fact that these companies are being so cagey is cause for concern. It is very difficult to get a straight answer about what this compound is and once heated, what it emits. Time will tell.

 

[Dove56]

I think I'm back on team wait-and-see. Something in the milk ain't clean. I know glyoxal and glyoxylic acid are very similar, but yea, the fact that these companies are being so cagey is cause for concern. It is very difficult to get a straight answer about what this compound is and once heated, what it emits. Time will tell.

I wonder is OSHA/FDA have tested the new "Cyestine" treaments? I think I need to start looking to find out.

 

[Peppermynt]

I think I'm back on team wait-and-see. Something in the milk ain't clean. I know glyoxal and glyoxylic acid are very similar, but yea, the fact that these companies are being so cagey is cause for concern. It is very difficult to get a straight answer about what this compound is and once heated, what it emits. Time will tell.

Me too. *sighs* I'm so afraid that this stuff might damage my hair. It's already a bit thinner in my crown due to aging and while I really want the texlaxed feel again, I'm so scared to make the wrong move.

 

[Kurlee]

Me too. *sighs* I'm so afraid that this stuff might damage my hair. It's already a bit thinner in my crown due to aging and while I really want the texlaxed feel again, I'm so scared to make the wrong move.

I'm not scared of it damaging my hair. I'm more so concerned about the long term health implications. The fact that info is doc scarce and no one can really seem to clearly explain what carbocysteine is (we know it's an amino acid compound) and how it performs when added bonded with oxoacetamide/glyoxyloyl, what happens to it in high heat, the % in the formula and how closely related it is to formaldehyde. It is definitely a cousin of it. The fact that these companies have scientist make up these formulas, they know exactly what the risks are and they are aware that the public is leery and yet, on their websites and online, you cannot find a definitive and straight up answer besides, "it's safe". *sigh . .. .

 

[Dove56]

Everytime this thread gets bumped to the first page I start thinking about that Organixx 30 day BKT I have laying around the house...

Can we put all this info into a google doc or blog post or something, just so that the information is easier to view. I'd be willing to start compiling the info as long as y'all can help with corrections.

bosswitch

My sister did this treatment last week and loved it.

 

[bosswitch]

@bosswitch

My sister did this treatment last week and loved it.

@Dove56
What hair type is she? Was it easy to use?

My only hesistation about the system is that I won't be able to tie my hair for 2 days. I don't think I could go that long without having to tie my hair back or wear a hard hat

 

[Dove56]

@Dove56
What hair type is she? Was it easy to use?

My only hesistation about the system is that I won't be able to tie my hair for 2 days. I don't think I could go that long without having to tie my hair back or wear a hard hat

She is a 3c with a teeny patch of 4a in the crown. Also, we both have some wavy hair on the very top but it's very wavy (like 3c but does not spin or spiral). It was easy to use. I did the treatment for her so all she had to do was relax lol. Just don't use too much because it flake.

My sis still put her hair back in a ponytail lol. I'm not telling you to do that but I'm saying she did and it didn't effect her results. She really loved how the treatment turned out. The treatment really smoothed the 2 hair and made the 3c and 4a very, very easy to manage and reduced bulk.

 

[Dove56]

OKay, I received a call from a gentleman named Tony at Payne's Beauty Supply. He said you can call and order the Elongation Mousse and it is the same price as the Transitioning Mousse, $167.00.

 

[Dellas]

OKay, I received a call from a gentleman named Tony at Payne's Beauty Supply. He said you can call and order the Elongation Mousse and it is the same price as the Transitioning Mousse, $167.00.

This mousse seems interesting it says you can wear curly styles with just a good blow dryer

Now that's what up
ha ha I thought i would never use that phrase

 

[Dove56]

This mousse seems interesting it says you can where curly styles with just a good blow dryer

Now that's what up
ha ha I thought i would never use that phrase

I say that all the time lol (if I'm not in a professional environment ).
It's pricey but if you like it you will have a year of treatments!

I wear my hair straight all the time so I will probably get the transitioning mouuse instead. I will do another treatment in Sept. so I have a little time to figure out which one I want next.