IDareT'sHair
PJ Rehabilitation Center
And she gone "Lecture" me about the fact that she uses x4 different Peppermint Oils ....o.k. So where's the durn Peppermint?
I even put my request in the Seller's Notes.
Gurl-Bye.
Bye-Gurl.
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Are We To Blame? Online Vendors
- Thread starter Bette Davis Eyes
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I even put my request in the Seller's Notes.
Gurl-Bye.
Bye-Gurl.
larry3344
Well-Known Member
You also need a team with varied expertise....but that is also dependent on the direction of the company. Maybe some of them want to remain niche and have no interest to become corporate.
Either way...a lot of your complaints are very valid...i have made the same observations which is why i now look for natural 'inspired' corp products founded by black people.
We should have never been led tp believe that we can overtake our hair industry with these type of companies alone.
I have even noticed natural hair gurus going back to main chain products that now cater to matural hair.
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Evolving78
Well-Known Member
Yeah my girl is like that! Lol i don't like to make a fuss! She will write if you didn't make her coffee right! Lol leave a piece of chicken out of the box, she is calling corporate! If you don't greet her when she walks into a store, she is looking for the manager! I'm not exaggerating either...
MilkChocolateOne
Well-Known Member
yes and labels with incorrect ingredient listings, omitted items, previous formulations with different ingredients. some vendors are too cheap to replace bad labels.
Evolving78
Well-Known Member
That's the direction I went. I still got love for Qhemet though. But I need better service an a decent return policy.
IDareT'sHair
PJ Rehabilitation Center
If you are having Financial, Marital, Work-Life issues, now may not be the best time to open a business.
Bette Davis Eyes
The "OG" Product Junkie
I want us to do well.
I love the fact I can walk into my local stores and see these natural hair care vendors but I think we deserve better as consumers.
I love the fact I can walk into my local stores and see these natural hair care vendors but I think we deserve better as consumers.
rileypak
Wash Week™ Queen
I usually don't salvage anything.
Spoiled - contact vendor & payment method if necessary; and mention it on here
Mixed incorrectly - depends; I'll contact vendors in the case of conditioners, leave-ins, moisturizers; butters/oils/greases - I take the L most of the time and keep it moving (I usually pass butter stuff as long as it's not rancid to my brothers/cousins/nephews) and mention it on here
I have a few thoughts:
- A six month shelf life is unreasonable, especially given the average price point for handcrafted items and the effort expended during the ordering process. No amount of arguing and explaining will ever justify it.
- OTOH, expecting to return used, ineffective and/or disliked products is unbelievably entitled, IMO. Consumers take risks when shopping for items...all items, which is why proper research is necessary prior to every purchase. Still, it’s one thing to request recompense for a faulty or damaged item, and quite another to expect a do-over because you discovered that your hair doesn’t like the quinoa protein in the DC you just purchased. Cut out the foolishness.
- Always research prior to purchasing handcrafted items online. Arm yourself with as much information as you can in order to make informed decision. Then, leave it all up to chance.
- A personal pet peeve of mine is paper labels. It would be great if merchants could find a more durable, low cost alternative because paper labels really mess up my product usage flow.
- Lastly and most importantly, people need to stop patronizing janky vendors. Just stop. When someone continues to give their money to merchants with proven track records of substandard service two things will occur as a result: (1) The vendor never learns how to step up their game because they don’t have to since the money is still flowing in their direction; and (2) It throws the other consumers who have decided to boycott under the bus, where their concerns are discounted and not taken seriously all because someone has to have a particular product that makes their curls pop...or some other similar justification. People need to respect and understand that there’s strength in unity. If we don’t unite under a banner of reasonable expectations for merchants, nothing will ever change.
ETA:
I disagree with the sentiment expressed regarding black entrepreneurs needing to evolve beyond “natural/mixtress” products to more commercialized merchandise. Small black businesses are a cornerstone to our community and enabled it to survive and thrive during Jim Crow and beyond until the integration stranglehold. These entrepreneurships also allowed for increased social mobility and access to societal rewards. IMO, one of the problems facing our community is our lack of these types of endeavors, not their existence. There’s a reason why the big commercial companies keep trying to add certain things, such as natural ingredients/products, to their line up. They are well aware of the huge natural, handcrafted niche and they want those dollars for themselves. So, no, black owned hair care vendors absolutely should not forsake their niche in order to chase after and copy L’Oreal and their brethren. *** dem. We got our own thing and it works. All we need to do is continue to build upon it and keep them out of it as much as possible.
- A six month shelf life is unreasonable, especially given the average price point for handcrafted items and the effort expended during the ordering process. No amount of arguing and explaining will ever justify it.
- OTOH, expecting to return used, ineffective and/or disliked products is unbelievably entitled, IMO. Consumers take risks when shopping for items...all items, which is why proper research is necessary prior to every purchase. Still, it’s one thing to request recompense for a faulty or damaged item, and quite another to expect a do-over because you discovered that your hair doesn’t like the quinoa protein in the DC you just purchased. Cut out the foolishness.
- Always research prior to purchasing handcrafted items online. Arm yourself with as much information as you can in order to make informed decision. Then, leave it all up to chance.
- A personal pet peeve of mine is paper labels. It would be great if merchants could find a more durable, low cost alternative because paper labels really mess up my product usage flow.
- Lastly and most importantly, people need to stop patronizing janky vendors. Just stop. When someone continues to give their money to merchants with proven track records of substandard service two things will occur as a result: (1) The vendor never learns how to step up their game because they don’t have to since the money is still flowing in their direction; and (2) It throws the other consumers who have decided to boycott under the bus, where their concerns are discounted and not taken seriously all because someone has to have a particular product that makes their curls pop...or some other similar justification. People need to respect and understand that there’s strength in unity. If we don’t unite under a banner of reasonable expectations for merchants, nothing will ever change.
ETA:
I disagree with the sentiment expressed regarding black entrepreneurs needing to evolve beyond “natural/mixtress” products to more commercialized merchandise. Small black businesses are a cornerstone to our community and enabled it to survive and thrive during Jim Crow and beyond until the integration stranglehold. These entrepreneurships also allowed for increased social mobility and access to societal rewards. IMO, one of the problems facing our community is our lack of these types of endeavors, not their existence. There’s a reason why the big commercial companies keep trying to add certain things, such as natural ingredients/products, to their line up. They are well aware of the huge natural, handcrafted niche and they want those dollars for themselves. So, no, black owned hair care vendors absolutely should not forsake their niche in order to chase after and copy L’Oreal and their brethren. *** dem. We got our own thing and it works. All we need to do is continue to build upon it and keep them out of it as much as possible.
Bette Davis Eyes
The "OG" Product Junkie
MilkChocolateOne
Well-Known Member
yes to everything
larry3344
Well-Known Member
@PJaye
I agree with everything except the last thing. I do think some companies should evolve to corp status because both small/niche companies and conglomerates are necessary.
At the end a black business is still a business. I can see that is what Carols daughter attempted to do...although it didn't work out ans so she sold the company.
I love handcrafted/niche conpanies too but I do not think that an economy can be sustained on them alone. And I do believe that some black companies aspire to be conglometates who make acquisitions but fear backlash.
We associate whites to corps and I think it is too limiting.
I agree with everything except the last thing. I do think some companies should evolve to corp status because both small/niche companies and conglomerates are necessary.
At the end a black business is still a business. I can see that is what Carols daughter attempted to do...although it didn't work out ans so she sold the company.
I love handcrafted/niche conpanies too but I do not think that an economy can be sustained on them alone. And I do believe that some black companies aspire to be conglometates who make acquisitions but fear backlash.
We associate whites to corps and I think it is too limiting.
I disagree. While I don't associate corporations with only whites, I do think that black business owners shouldn't aspire to traverse that road to success. IMO, the goal should be creating a sustainable, viable, efficient and highly profitable community of our own. Mainstreaming and crossing over doesn't work to our benefit, so we need to stop pushing that agenda and focus on a For-Us-By-Us methodology, e.g., Hassidic Jews as opposed to Carol's Daughter.
MilkChocolateOne
Well-Known Member
I noticed something else. I will not mention the vendor but I am sure someone else noticed too. Vendors should stop with the obvious preferential treatment towards a few customers or at least tell those customers not to mention it on a message board. I do understand vendors might develop relationships with some of their frequent customers but please give all of your customers the same level of service. I have witnessed a situation in which customer "A" received an order within 3 - 5 days after placing an order with a couple a free gifted full sized items included while customer "B" is still waiting 2 weeks later for an order that was placed before customer "A"'s order.
Saludable84
Better Late Than Ugly
I'm funny with this topic. Even referring and taking vendor referrals.
I'm looking for quality first and foremost. Shea butter ain't for everyone. Aloe and glycerin cannot be used by everyone. Switch your stuff up. Even though Ayurvedic is more common now, it's till hard to find. If you have a popular product, hard is it to offer 16oz. Especially if it's "handmade". Most preservatives have small shelf life's depending on the usage amount. Lighter and "safer" ones are going to have a smaller shelf life. Natural preservatives are not really cost effective. And most of the time, I've learned that thicker products with less water that stay unopened in a cool dark place won't spoil. That's just my experience though. Don't take my word.
When it comes to shipping and handling, just be upfront. If a vendor states it takes two weeks for orders to be fulfilled, who is to blame for that order taking 2 weeks. You had the conscious decision to not buy, so don't complain. But don't take 2 weeks and you have no specified wait time.
When I first started with NG, her wait times were roughly a week. And I respected that. As time went on, I would receive a notice within days. Likewise with APB and DB. SD is still ridiculous and while I love her stuff, it keeps me from jumping to buy her stuff because I know I'll be waiting a season to get my stuff. My last order from her I got in a week so I won't complain too much. I don't mind waiting but if you know it takes that long, maybe have a couple things made. Especially your best sellers.
The only issue I ever had was with APB. She sent me a moisturizer that was half full. I sent her a picture and everything because I didn't want her to think I was lying. She didn't even care; I had a shipping notice in 1 hour. She will NEVER lose me as a customer. If I tell you there is a problem, it's not hurting you to correct it.
When I look at your stuff online, I don't want to see secret ingredients or proprietary blends. Show me a full listing. And not the main staple ingredients. I like consistency. I like clean kitchens. I could care less how pretty your labels are. I want to see some reviews too.
Don't ship my stuff UPS. Or Fedex. It's like finding Pokemon getting them packages. Regla degla USPS will suffice. Do not charge me $11 for 1lb of product.
I'm looking for quality first and foremost. Shea butter ain't for everyone. Aloe and glycerin cannot be used by everyone. Switch your stuff up. Even though Ayurvedic is more common now, it's till hard to find. If you have a popular product, hard is it to offer 16oz. Especially if it's "handmade". Most preservatives have small shelf life's depending on the usage amount. Lighter and "safer" ones are going to have a smaller shelf life. Natural preservatives are not really cost effective. And most of the time, I've learned that thicker products with less water that stay unopened in a cool dark place won't spoil. That's just my experience though. Don't take my word.
When it comes to shipping and handling, just be upfront. If a vendor states it takes two weeks for orders to be fulfilled, who is to blame for that order taking 2 weeks. You had the conscious decision to not buy, so don't complain. But don't take 2 weeks and you have no specified wait time.
When I first started with NG, her wait times were roughly a week. And I respected that. As time went on, I would receive a notice within days. Likewise with APB and DB. SD is still ridiculous and while I love her stuff, it keeps me from jumping to buy her stuff because I know I'll be waiting a season to get my stuff. My last order from her I got in a week so I won't complain too much. I don't mind waiting but if you know it takes that long, maybe have a couple things made. Especially your best sellers.
The only issue I ever had was with APB. She sent me a moisturizer that was half full. I sent her a picture and everything because I didn't want her to think I was lying. She didn't even care; I had a shipping notice in 1 hour. She will NEVER lose me as a customer. If I tell you there is a problem, it's not hurting you to correct it.
When I look at your stuff online, I don't want to see secret ingredients or proprietary blends. Show me a full listing. And not the main staple ingredients. I like consistency. I like clean kitchens. I could care less how pretty your labels are. I want to see some reviews too.
Don't ship my stuff UPS. Or Fedex. It's like finding Pokemon getting them packages. Regla degla USPS will suffice. Do not charge me $11 for 1lb of product.
Bette Davis Eyes
The "OG" Product Junkie
Thats another peeve of mine. Why do I have to email you to find out whats in the product?
Saludable84
Better Late Than Ugly
I was contemplating buying something from Canada. At the time, she was different with her stuff. I asked her for a listing and homegirl treated me like a teef. Not in this lifetime. Hit the unlove button super quick.
Saludable84
Better Late Than Ugly
I totally agree with @PJaye
We have small black owned vendors. Let's look at the bigger picture and hold aside CS and all that other stuff for a minute. Look at what these people market. Companies see this. They watch us. We think we aren't important, but when companies are marketing and changing YEARS of formulas and creating lines to attract our business, it doesn't matter even if it's 2% natural ingredients, we sure is important for all of that to be done. Regardless of their product. The watch us, see what we like and take that for granted. And this is where some of the problem is. These companies take us for granted.
We cannot have our own.
You have small companies with big dreams. No problem with that. Now, I understand once you start getting mainstream, your product may have a slight formulation change if you can't keep up with production. Some people don't change formulas and just do small batches. Fine. The problem is that companies like CD sell out, go completely mainstream, your products become completely reformulated, separating from how you began, and then, how does that help our community? What did you prove? What lesson do you teach? You made it, but at what cost? How many steps forward did you really go?
We compete with each other instead of working with each other. Working with big companies proves minimal and keeps us stuck in our same mentalities.
We have small black owned vendors. Let's look at the bigger picture and hold aside CS and all that other stuff for a minute. Look at what these people market. Companies see this. They watch us. We think we aren't important, but when companies are marketing and changing YEARS of formulas and creating lines to attract our business, it doesn't matter even if it's 2% natural ingredients, we sure is important for all of that to be done. Regardless of their product. The watch us, see what we like and take that for granted. And this is where some of the problem is. These companies take us for granted.
We cannot have our own.
You have small companies with big dreams. No problem with that. Now, I understand once you start getting mainstream, your product may have a slight formulation change if you can't keep up with production. Some people don't change formulas and just do small batches. Fine. The problem is that companies like CD sell out, go completely mainstream, your products become completely reformulated, separating from how you began, and then, how does that help our community? What did you prove? What lesson do you teach? You made it, but at what cost? How many steps forward did you really go?
We compete with each other instead of working with each other. Working with big companies proves minimal and keeps us stuck in our same mentalities.
curlyhersheygirl
Well-Known Member
I personally don't mind the fact that I am unable to return handmade products because I view them as "custom orders" even though they technically aren't. The shelf life issue I've realized that is like a "best by" date for most companies. Many of them use that time frame as a benchmark but the companies that take great care and pride in production of their products actually have longer shelf lives than mentioned if stored properly.
That being said I don't mess with folks who have no business sense. Over the years that natural hair and holistic living have been on the rise, every Joe Schmo and Sally Substory have decided to become entrepreneurs. Not that anything is wrong with that but many have no clue how to run a business. The vendors that I have had bad experiences with, I no longer patronize. In many of the cases it wasn't due to poor quality of products but customer service issues. In a few cases, depending upon the attitude I received, I gave them an ear full and KIM. That is something I do even with larger companies; I don't play with my money.
In terms of formulation issues, I don't tolerate that either. Before a product is introduced to the market it should be consistent. I understand that start-ups may not have access to labs that test various aspects of their product but ask mommy and aunty to use the product and provide feedback. Just that simple step can highlight various issues before you introduce it to the market.
That being said I don't mess with folks who have no business sense. Over the years that natural hair and holistic living have been on the rise, every Joe Schmo and Sally Substory have decided to become entrepreneurs. Not that anything is wrong with that but many have no clue how to run a business. The vendors that I have had bad experiences with, I no longer patronize. In many of the cases it wasn't due to poor quality of products but customer service issues. In a few cases, depending upon the attitude I received, I gave them an ear full and KIM. That is something I do even with larger companies; I don't play with my money.
In terms of formulation issues, I don't tolerate that either. Before a product is introduced to the market it should be consistent. I understand that start-ups may not have access to labs that test various aspects of their product but ask mommy and aunty to use the product and provide feedback. Just that simple step can highlight various issues before you introduce it to the market.
Bette Davis Eyes
The "OG" Product Junkie
So what would the general census be?
Are you bringing inconsistencies back to the vendors?
Are you bringing inconsistencies back to the vendors?
IDareT'sHair
PJ Rehabilitation Center
Yes, I share my legitimate concerns with the vendors.
Maybe you should have added a "Poll" @shawnyblazes
Maybe you should have added a "Poll" @shawnyblazes
Bette Davis Eyes
The "OG" Product Junkie
YvetteWithJoy
On break
Interesting thread. Thanks for it!
The other day I went to a vendor's website that did not inspire confidence in their products or business knowledge/acumen. Out of care, I sent this message:
I received this message back:
The "bougie" comment was not meant as a slight to anyone. I hope it was disarming and silly. Maybe I shouldn't have said that.
Regardless, no matter what, I know I'll never purchase from this vendor. Sigh. I was feeling some kind of way about THAT, but I'm going to go with my gut. It's my hair. Once damaged, it would be . . . damaged. I don't know why they launched without a website proofreader. What else aren't they doing? 
The other day I went to a vendor's website that did not inspire confidence in their products or business knowledge/acumen. Out of care, I sent this message:
Hi! I learned about your products from a hair blog. Congratulations on the business! I don't want any customers to be turned off from your site due to typos! Is there any way that you can have a proofreader go over your site? "Receive" is spelled "recieve." "Business" is spelled "bunisess." Punctuation is misplaced. Capital letters and lower-case letters are randomly "incorrect." Some "bougie" people might be a little turned off by all of this, thinking that if you can't be careful with how you present yourself online with these small matters, then how careful can you be with your product formulation, business sense, customer service, etc? I don't have these thoughts about you or your business, but I just wanted to KINDLY share this message with you just in case this stuff ends up mattering to some of your would-have-been customers. Please excuse MY OWN typos in the message! Many blessings! And godspeed with your hair product business. Wishing you ALL of the best, Yvette
I received this message back:
We humbly appreciate you for taking the time out to contact us about the errors found on our website.
We will take care of them asap.The "bougie" comment was not meant as a slight to anyone. I hope it was disarming and silly. Maybe I shouldn't have said that.
Regardless, no matter what, I know I'll never purchase from this vendor. Sigh. I was feeling some kind of way about THAT, but I'm going to go with my gut. It's my hair. Once damaged, it would be . . . damaged. I don't know why they launched without a website proofreader. What else aren't they doing?
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YvetteWithJoy
On break
For the longest, I had my can't-get-this-on-the-ground purchasing habits down to just ONE product. That brand's owner is great and knows what she's doing. She's business-minded, professional, and gets good write-ups (in magazines and such).
Somewhat hesitantly, I recently purchased items from a second can't-get-this-on-the-ground brand. And, a little worrisome (for me at least), I'm about to make my first Etsy purchase once a sale is announced. I never thought I'd be here, but I am.
I tried with all my being not to get started down that road. The reason?
A large part of me hopes that some of these vendors benefit so greatly from the online selling experiences that it lays the foundation for greater things. I am still looking for a product to actually elongate my curls (weigh them down during drying without being gunky and stick) that doesn't contain a lot of bad ingredients. I hope it's a black-owned-business that achieves this. I see that Garnier Fructis has a product that supposedly does that, but uses VERY cheap and potentially unhealthy ingredients.
The STUNNING, STAGGERING amount of dollars curly-haired women spend on their hair . . . I'm grateful that some of it is funneling to black vendors (online and not), and I hope they take their customers's feedback and needs and use it to be getting to the next level, whatever that is.
For now, I am PRAYING that my first venture into buying at Etsy does not make me regret it.
Somewhat hesitantly, I recently purchased items from a second can't-get-this-on-the-ground brand. And, a little worrisome (for me at least), I'm about to make my first Etsy purchase once a sale is announced. I never thought I'd be here, but I am.
I tried with all my being not to get started down that road. The reason?
- The shipping costs. Like someone up-thread said: "Why wouldn't a vendor use flat-rate shipping?"
- Formulation and discontinuation challenges.
A large part of me hopes that some of these vendors benefit so greatly from the online selling experiences that it lays the foundation for greater things. I am still looking for a product to actually elongate my curls (weigh them down during drying without being gunky and stick) that doesn't contain a lot of bad ingredients. I hope it's a black-owned-business that achieves this. I see that Garnier Fructis has a product that supposedly does that, but uses VERY cheap and potentially unhealthy ingredients.
The STUNNING, STAGGERING amount of dollars curly-haired women spend on their hair . . . I'm grateful that some of it is funneling to black vendors (online and not), and I hope they take their customers's feedback and needs and use it to be getting to the next level, whatever that is.
For now, I am PRAYING that my first venture into buying at Etsy does not make me regret it.
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Kurlee
Well-Known Member
MilkChocolateOne
Well-Known Member
I
I do but to be honest I haven't had a lot of recent issues. Most of the vendors I have ordered from are decent. I vet my vendors before ordering. I have been supporting handmade/hand crafted vendors since 2004/2005. The few issues I did have were resolved in my favor.
I do but to be honest I haven't had a lot of recent issues. Most of the vendors I have ordered from are decent. I vet my vendors before ordering. I have been supporting handmade/hand crafted vendors since 2004/2005. The few issues I did have were resolved in my favor.
toaster
Well-Known Member
My issue with natural hair vendors is that it's 2016. The natural hair "boom" has been happening since 2008 (maybe sooner). How are you going to stroll in 8 years late and not have your stuff together? ALL of the research should have been done by now. I'm not willing to give you a newbie pass either.
I don't want mold in my product. I want flat rate shipping. I want full ingredient lists. Don't have an ugly website (simple is fine). And please, no excuses.
I don't want mold in my product. I want flat rate shipping. I want full ingredient lists. Don't have an ugly website (simple is fine). And please, no excuses.
larry3344
Well-Known Member
Oh my gosh totally agree with that. I stay away from websites that look like a child put it together.
With the amount of people who can code or have web design as a skill you can't put in the effort to make your site more presentable? Really?
You have people with blogs wth no web design background that make their blogs way more professional than that. There are even services like fiverr you can use.
I don't think I am bougie to expect these things. I think black consumers get a bad rap for being whiners but I do believe we also put up/too forgiving as well.
That being said...there are companies that definitely stepped up to the plate in that regard.
Lot's of good tips....I am also going to work on providing more feedback.
Bette Davis Eyes
The "OG" Product Junkie
I can get basic ingredients and make my hair work. conditioner, flax seeds and henna with some clay. Now that I can get SM on the ground, I really dont need to buy online. I choose to support and variety when Im bored.
There are some stellar companies out there and even those at times have made mistakes. No one is perfect but feedback is critically especially with the economy today. I am by no means well off, this hair hobby could be invested elsewhere.
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