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Are We To Blame? Online Vendors

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IDareT'sHair said:
@shawnyblazes
Hmph.:angry2: What's My Name? I'm taking it skrait to them (and Ya'll):lachen:
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We know YOU do, LOLOLOL @IDareT'sHair

I think a lot of complaints dont make it to the vendors. I could be wrong. I know, whenever I post something, sometimes I will get an inbox from some vendors because.. I'm vocal.

I've also been asked by certain vendors to refer customers to them if they have an issue with a product. I was thinking this morning as I saw the oil sitting on top of a product, do I reach out to this vendor? do I trash it, Do I use it for my feet and suck up the $16 I spent??

Then I realized.. and thought... how many times has this happened to someone else and it was never brought to the attention of said vendor?
 
shawnyblazes said:
How do you take in account for natural hair care lines that have their products preserved for years without parabens?


and please dont think Im coming for you. I'm getting a good dialogue here
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many companies don't disclose all of their ingredients (kinky-curly is one of them). Secondly, while they don't use parabens, they use "cousins" of them that pose the same risks, but must people can't tell the difference and as long as they don't see paraben they are happy. For example, Japanese honeysuckle (Lonicera japonica) is very similar to parabens and the jury is still out on its safety, but they're the main preservative in Shea Moisture products. Some will use BHT or Methylisothiazolinone, which is a cytotoxin and studies have shown in can negatively affect the nervous system (among others), but it's all over the place. People see the "one" at the end and think it's a silicone or just don't notice.

These are ways that a product can be "paraben-free" and still not that great or "natural". Industry gets away with giving us these potentially harmful products because a) consumers don't know the difference and b) complain about products that behave the way truly "natural" products do. If you're interested, check out "greenwashing". It's a real thing.
 
IDareT'sHair said:
I hate grittiness. Especially if it was smooth last time I bought it.

Shoddy labels that run. Poor/Cheap packaging are more than likely from start ups.

I don't like partial ingredient list either.

If you are just starting out, I guess I try to be some-what more tolerable.

But if you are still doing that 12 months later, there's a problem.
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Can't comment on the labels because there's no excuse for that. I'd assume that the vendor is trying to cut costs, but to me, presentation matters and they should make sure that's on point.

Grittiness may be due to shea or other butters in the formulation. If it's the real stuff (unrefined) and in transit it went through a really hot place like Texas, it will melt the product and when it cools down by the time it gets to you, it reconstitutes in a gritty way. Butters get gritty if they are improperly heated and cooled. Because vendors can't control the route from them to the consumer or the temperature of those places, the product most likely left the vendor in good condition, but got ruined in transit. Refunds in a situation like that would be a major loss because the product is gone, shipping was paid and then they would have to pay you back on top of all that.

Somebody also mentioned scent. Natural oils and butters often STINK. Real and potent shea butter, avocado oil, murumuru have really strong smells if unrefined and if it's in a formulation, essential oils may not cut it. If the vendor wants to use synthetic fragrance (phthalates risk) then they have to either use a lot of synthetic fragrance or use refined oils and butters that have no smell/colour and have most of their nourishing properties stripped out. Consumers complain if a product is too herbally, but then also complain if it smells too strong, but then also complain if they ingredients are too basic or not high quality to justify the price. Oy.

Also, the natural fragrances/extracts that smell good that are not synthetic are super expensive (fruit, vanilla, sandalwood, etc.) and with some of them, because you have to use a lot for the product to smell like it, it's simply not economical.
 
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shawnyblazes said:
DO you go back to the vendor though OR do we post it here and hope said vendor is watching??

Do you google reviews before you buy?
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I contact vendors. I also give them a chance to rectify an issue before I post a less than favorable review. I try to be fair and understanding within reason.

I google reviews, I search the forum, the reviews section at curlmart/naturally curly, makeup alley, blogs and sometimes youtube for product consistency, visual results, and to see the product in action. I don't trust youtubers and bloggers that give a glowing review for every product.
 
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Kurlee said:
Grittiness may be due to shea butter or other butters in the formulation. If it's the real stuff (unrefined) and in transit it went through a really hot place, it will melt the product and when it cools down by the time it gets to you, it reconstitutes in a gritty way. So, it most likely left the vendor in good condition, but got ruined in transit.
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@Kurlee
I can accept this.:yep:

Presentation is important. And if you are using Computer Generated Labels, they still need to be on point.

Along with Grammatical Errors etc.....have someone proof read your stuff.
 
I'm not paying $25 for a product to go bad on me in under the shelf life you gave me but at the same time, I do like good ingredients,

I'm not for the basic shea butter , aloe and coconut oil thats in EVERY product but youre charging me $18. Yes, youre out to make money but I'm also out to have a product that I can use and support your business ( I buy black 85% ).

I should not have to toggle back and forth online about a replacement or store credit. A lot of vendors put the due to the nature of handmade, we dont accept returns , well what do you accept?
 
High Shipping Cost is another huge issue. If your shipping costs outweighs the discount.

Also, if you charge me a high shipping cost and then send it in a flimsy envelope (instead of a box) and it still takes a long time, that's a problem too. Because what did I actually pay for?

I don't know what the big deal is with Flat Rate Shipping? Folks need to check into it.
 
shawnyblazes said:
DO you go back to the vendor though OR do we post it here and hope said vendor is watching??

Do you google reviews before you buy?
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Some vendors are messy deleting comments. I post here

shawnyblazes said:
I'm not paying $25 for a product to go bad on me in under the shelf life you gave me but at the same time, I do like good ingredients,

I'm not for the basic shea butter , aloe and coconut oil thats in EVERY product but youre charging me $18. Yes, youre out to make money but I'm also out to have a product that I can use and support your business ( I buy black 85% ).

I should not have to toggle back and forth online about a replacement or store credit. A lot of vendors put the due to the nature of handmade, we dont accept returns , well what do you accept?
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This is the same as making your own flaxseed gel without putting preservatives in it. It will go bad while in your hair if you keep it in too long. It's stupid to pay $25 for a product that goes bad quickly. You might as well make it yourself because it will be cheaper. Not buy it from someone else that could actually be lying about when they made it and how long it lasts, I.e. my blue rose order
 
RUBY said:
@shawnyblazes , what happened? I see your op but you don't name any names. What product expired in 6 months and company made/sent it to you?
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Oh, nothing happened recently. Just thoughts of incidents that have happened in the last 6 months or so.

I have never received a product spoiled. I have received products with oil on top or butter in the bottom of the product. I have used products and had the labels smear when you use the product. I have had products arrive with specks of product in it which took forever to get resolved.

I was just thinking..how much power we actually have and are we using it correctly to further not only our own experiences but the experiences of small business owners. Everyone has growing pains but at what expense are we being the guinea pigs?

Do you always bring your complaints back to the vendor or are we chalking it up as a loss?
 
IDareT'sHair said:
@shawnyblazes
Yes, a lot of great lines have come & gone.:cry3:

You are absolutely right. And it is good there are some of the Handmade/Naturals in stores now. That helps - a lot.

Re: When products are in the $18.00 - $20.00 range, stuff better be on point. I cannot see them asking you to send it back and then trying to "fix it" Not no $18.00 - $20.00 product.:nono:
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Nothing is on point anymore! We complained about a lack of products for black hair period, but now it's just ridiculous and everyone is regurgitating the same ingredients. Nothing new or innovative. I haven't ordered anything online for hair in awhile. I'm sick of spending that kind of money and not getting the results I'm looking for.
I went to Sally's the other day. I had a hard time finding what I needed. And it's too many styling products for defining curls and twisting. Too much glycerin and protein in products. Too many cleansing creams.

And they feel they can give us crappy customer service because our dollars aren't being respected.
 
shortdub78 said:
Nothing is on point anymore! We complained about a lack of products for black hair period, but now it's just ridiculous and everyone is regurgitating the same ingredients. Nothing new or innovative. I haven't ordered anything online for hair in awhile. I'm sick of spending that kind of money and not getting the results I'm looking for.
I went to Sally's the other day. I had a hard time finding what I needed. And it's too many styling products for defining curls and twisting. Too much glycerin and protein in products. Too many cleansing creams.

And they feel they can give us crappy customer service because our dollars aren't being respected.
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^^^ That.
 
I recently bought an oil that was listed to do one thing and it didn't. In fact, I had bought multiples of this item.

I contacted the vendor. She gives me a lecture. ANGTFD.

I ended up buying stuff to mix my own durn oil (which has been turning out nicely) As bad as I hate mixing stuff, that was a lesson learnt.

It's not like I hadn't had this same product from Her before numerous times and it did what it was suppose to do.

Why couldn't she just say, she left out an ingredient, or something was wrong? Obviously I was not satisfied as a customer, which was my reason for contacting you in the first place.

She has numerous Huge Discounted Sales, but based on that one experience, I'm not even 'tempted' to ever purchase from her again.
 
We need to be vocal, so take it straight the the vendor. And most are watching the forums and blogs. If the problem doesn't get resolved, take it to the streets! I have a friend that will write, call, email complaints in a heartbeat. She does it with everything! I, on the other hand just say forget it and take the hit. They just don't get my business anymore, but sometimes things don't get corrected, if ignorance is bliss. That means they don't know, if you don't tell them. And they continue to display bad practices.
 
I've tried to cut down on my pjism a lot but one of the things that has helped is knowing that the expiry time of these handmade natural projects is short lived. If I order a lot of products, there is no way that I will be able to use they all by the time that they expire. That is a waste of money and energy. I have products in my stash that are years old, including some natural products and I continue to use them as long as they are not obviously spoilt.
 
shortdub78 said:
We need to be vocal, so take it straight the the vendor. And most are watching the forums and blogs. If the problem doesn't get resolved, take it to the streets! I have a friend that will write, call, email complaints in a heartbeat. She does it with everything! I, on the other hand just say forget it and take the hit. They just don't get my business anymore, but sometimes things don't get corrected, if ignorance is bliss. That means they don't know, if you don't tell them. And they continue to display bad practices.
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@shortdub78
I don't take the Hit w/o a Fight. I am going to contact you (like it or not).
 
There a a vendor I found via another natural. She accused me of basically using a discount code that wasn't for me but we had a conversation on Instagram.

I never shopped with her again. I posted my review and left it at that. Vendor turned out to have not so nice customer service and down the line ,others stop shopping with her as well.

I can always take my money elsewhere, which I have in the past. Sometimes, I dont even give my review when I've had a bad situation because I give the benefit of the doubt.

Id like to continue to put money into us but I think we need to be vocal about how things are being done.
 
Kurlee said:
Somebody also mentioned scent. Natural oils and butters often STINK. Real and potent shea butter, avocado oil, murumuru have really strong smells if unrefined and if it's in a formulation, essential oils may not cut it. If the vendor wants to use synthetic fragrance (phthalates risk) then they have to either use a lot of synthetic fragrance or use refined oils and butters that have no smell/colour and have most of their nourishing properties stripped out. Consumers complain if a product is too herbally, but then also complain if it smells too strong, but then also complain if they ingredients are too basic or not high quality to justify the price. Oy.

Also, the natural fragrances/extracts that smell good that are not synthetic are super expensive (fruit, vanilla, sandalwood, etc.) and with some of them, because you have to use a lot for the product to smell like it, it's simply not economical.
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I mentioned scent and this is not what I was referring to at all. I was talking about remaining consistent with percentages during the mixing process. If the formulation has .5 % fragrance and produces a nice light noticeable scent the next batch shouldn't contain 1.5% fragrance that has a strong lingering scent. like I said before I wasn't referring to slight variations or the properties of natural ingredients. I'm talking about obvious inconsistencies. You know like changing bases, ingredient types or percentages. For example if a vendor used 50% nilotica east african shea butter in the initial batch of a whipped butter product but used 65 % West african shea butter in a subsequent batch of the same whipped butter product. There would be a noticeable difference in consistency, texture and possibly performance between the two batches.
 
@shawnyblazes and @IDareT'sHair a lot of people who claim to sell hair products need to go to school and actually study chemistry/product formulations. Or hire staff that have that expertise.

I think I mentioned here before...that black hair care entrepreneurs need to move away from "natural/mixtress" products to actually create natural inspired products that can compete with l'oreal and others. This is what will help us truly reclaim the black hair care industry.

These natural hair products are a temp fix...and if some of these companies dont adapt/evolve we will be back to square one.
 
larry3344 said:
@shawnyblazes and @IDareT'sHair a lot of people who claim to sell hair products need to go to school and actually study chemistry/product formulations. Or hire staff that have that expertise.

I think I mentioned here before...that black hair care entrepreneurs need to move away from "natural/mixtress" products to actually create natural inspired products that can compete with l'oreal and others. This is what will help us truly reclaim the black hair care industry.

These natural hair products are a temp fix...and if some of these companies dont adapt/evolve we will be back to square one.[/QUOTE
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I agree!

Cream and Coco says she has chemistry background but I dunno. Few items have separated on me in under 2 months.
 
I think we are reaching the next development of black hair care....the niche natural hair products can still exist but they need to be balanced with professional hair care products for mass market. Unless you embrace a hippie lifestyle you cant live off 100% natural everything, it's not realistic.
 
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