"Taking Back the N-word" - Thoughts?

[Nonie]

I'm sorry to bump this thread up again but I just had to share one of the nicest PMs I have ever received. A PM that proves that information can cure years of misunderstanding and free a mind to see things differently if one is open to it. (PM posted w/ permission from that author.)

hey!

I was just reading the thread "Taking back the N-word". I'm pm'ing you to let you know that you are such a wise woman and I love reading your posts. The word Nappy was offensive to me until I read your post.

If someone had told me that they could change my feelings about that word, I would've called them crazy!

When you talked about blacks not having a sufficient comb, where the word came from, and what it really meant, I was enlightened! WOW!

Thanks girl!

I just had to come and thank you for that.

I realize that when a thread is as long as this, folks don't read all the posts so maybe posting yet again the videos of 400 Years Without a Comb may not be a bad idea in case someone missed them. As silly as this may seem, until I watched the movie, it had never occurred to me that slaves never had time to pack combs when they were taken from their homes. And the impact that this had on how they came to view their hair is sobering. It is especially so if you read the book Hair Story and see what a proud people Africans were of their hair and how elaborately they wore it in ways that had significance. So in addition to all the things you know they were robbed of that fall under "dignity" add to that self-respect--ie feeling good about themselves.

Here are the videos of 400 Years Without a Comb. I apologize to those who've seen all the posts in this thread that had the vids:

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cMf1heTa6A
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=winJvvYCS20
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvMvNgFJ8zU
Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRwLkS7W4oM
Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-FBFIA1Hks
Part 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbXLbZhivOM

 

[CocoGlow]

I just have to ask:

For those that take offense to the word "Nappy", what are these many...many... many OTHER words you would prefer to use to describe natural type 4 hair? Seriously, please list them, so that I can know my options...

Is the term nappy not accurate? Are the other terms MORE accurate of a description or are they just as accurate as nappy - just "safer"?

Also, for those that think that since some of "society" uses it in a negative way, it should therefore not be a word we embrace...think about this....is it really the actual word Nappy or what it represents?

Let's say these people used another word on the "acceptable adjectives for our hair list" such as: kinky, fluffy, afro-ey (lol), puff, cloud, coily, curly, etc, etc ... wouldn't "society" also use those words with the same disgust & shame as the word nappy? They would be referring to the same thing .. our hair texture .. but see other than the word used, the attitude remains the same ... so the problem really isn't the word nappy, it's "society's" disdain for the tightly coiled hair that sprouts out of MY head - no matter what they choose to call it!

Instead of vomiting out: "Oh she got that Nappy hair!" with such hate & disgust, they would just vomit out: "Oh she got that (insert more acceptable adjective here) hair!" with the same hate & disgust ... Why get upset with the term and not the ignorance ...

 

[Kurlee]

i think u and nonie are totally missing the point i'm making and totally misinterpreted everything i saiderplexed

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

I just have to ask:

For those that take offense to the word "Nappy", what are these many...many... many OTHER words you would prefer to use to describe natural type 4 hair? Seriously, please list them, so that I can know my options...

Is the term nappy not accurate? Are the other terms MORE accurate of a description or are they just as accurate as nappy - just "safer"?

I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally I have NEVER liked the word "Nappy". Call me sensitive or whatever, but I've never liked that "descriptive term" to describe our type of hair. I think that due to past history and society that word has taken on a negative connotation. I look at "nappy" as another way to describe "good hair" vs. "bad hair".

Most in society look down upon "Nappy" hair. If you think about it...whoever says: "ooooo her nappy hair looks so NICE!!" Usually the term "nappy" is used to INSULT. So no...I do NOT feel comfortable using that word to describe my hair, or any other persons hair. You never hear anyone say: "Ugh your hair is so CURLY, why don't you do something to it?" Or.... "Curly-headed hoes".

By the way, here is what Dictionary.com has to say about the term "Nappy":

Word Origin & History

nappy
"downy," 1499, from nap (n.). Meaning "fuzzy, kinky," used in colloquial or derogatory ref. to the hair of black people, is from 1950.

nap·py 1 (nāp'ē)
adj. nap·pi·er, nap·pi·est

Having a nap; fuzzy: a nappy carpet

Often Offensive Tightly curled or coiled. Used of hair.

To describe our hair why not just use words like:
-coily
-kinky
-tightly-coiled
-Afro-textured
-Kinky-curly
-textured

Why does it have to be a term that has historically been used to degrade, offend, and oppress a group of people??

 

[Kurlee]

I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally I have NEVER liked the word "Nappy". Call me sensitive or whatever, but I've never liked that "descriptive term" to describe our type of hair. I think that due to past history and society that word has taken on a negative connotation. I look at "nappy" as another way to describe "good hair" vs. "bad hair".

Most in society look down upon "Nappy" hair. If you think about it...whoever says: "ooooo her nappy hair looks so NICE!!" Usually the term "nappy" is used to INSULT. So no...I do NOT feel comfortable using that word to describe my hair, or any other persons hair. You never hear anyone say: "Ugh your hair is so CURLY, why don't you do something to it?" Or.... "Curly-headed hoes".

By the way, here is what Dictionary.com has to say about the term "Nappy":





To describe our hair why not just use words like:
-coily
-kinky
-tightly-coiled
-Afro-textured
-Kinky-curly
-textured

Why does it have to be a term that has historically been used to degrade, offend, and oppress a group of people??

thanks is not enough

 

[andromeda]

I think there are two central issues at play here:
- whether or not those who use the term "nappy" are doing so in a reactionary way? (there's a faulty underlying assumption that everyone shares the same frame of reference/experiences/understanding re: the word's usage and meaning, and thus anyone who used the word must be doing so in a reactionary way)
- what are the merits of taking a reactionary approach in your decision to embrace or reject the word?

Some are confusing/conflating those issues (which is understandable, esp given the title of my thread and the post that referenced in my OP).

I'm sorry to bump this thread up again but I just had to share one of the nicest PMs I have ever received. A PM that proves that information can cure years of misunderstanding and free a mind to see things differently if one is open to it. (PM posted w/ permission from that author.)



I realize that when a thread is as long as this, folks don't read all the posts so maybe posting yet again the videos of 400 Years Without a Comb may not be a bad idea in case someone missed them. As silly as this may seem, until I watched the movie, it had never occurred to me that slaves never had time to pack combs when they were taken from their homes. And the impact that this had on how they came to view their hair is sobering. It is especially so if you read the book Hair Story and see what a proud people Africans were of their hair and how elaborately they wore it in ways that had significance. So in addition to all the things you know they were robbed of that fall under "dignity" add to that self-respect--ie feeling good about themselves.

Here are the videos of 400 Years Without a Comb. I apologize to those who've seen all the posts in this thread that had the vids:

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cMf1heTa6A
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=winJvvYCS20
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvMvNgFJ8zU
Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRwLkS7W4oM
Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-FBFIA1Hks
Part 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbXLbZhivOM

That's beautiful, Nonie! I'll add that info to the OP.

 

[Kurlee]

I think there are two central issues at play here:
- whether or not those who use the term "nappy" are doing so in a reactionary way? (there's a faulty underlying assumption that everyone shares the same frame of reference/experiences/understanding re: the word's usage and meaning, and thus anyone who used the word must be doing so in a reactionary way)
- what are the merits of taking a reactionary approach in your decision to embrace or reject the word?

Some are confusing/conflating those issues (which is understandable, esp given the title of my thread and the post that referenced in my OP).


That's beautiful, Nonie! I'll add that info to the OP.

not everyone has the same frame of reference, but there is no denying that there is a stigma/negative connotation attached to the word. Let's not act brand new. If you didn't know before, upon interaction with others you will find out. Still don't understand the attachment, when there are accurate alternatives.

ETA: I read a book last year called "Out of the House of Bondage", that investigated gender politics on the plantation. One part of the book that stood out to me was the chapter that discussed the dynamics between black women and white women. Often times, when the slave master was away their wives would abuse the hell out of the black women and the book went into graphic detail about the sadistic methods they would use, like scalding their tongues for extended periods of time, driving pins through their tongues and hands/fingers, while calling them "nappy headed bi*&%". After learning things like that, I just can't bring myself to use the word. Yes, in some spaces it is light hearted and "innocent", but knowing how it was used and continues to be used in MOST spaces, it is easier for me to just say curly or coily or something. There's no politics or stigma attached to those words and "black hair" is so diverse that it can coil, curl, wave and "fro" on any day of the week depending on how you style it. It doesn't mean that I am running away from my hair by not calling it nappy; i'm simply trying to bury and kill the power of a word that almost never has a positive connotation.

 

[1QTPie]

I don't have an issue with the word nappy. I "understand" why some are offended. Doesn't offend me and never has.

 

[andromeda]

Okay, I edited the OP to include the info about 400 Years Without a Comb. In doing so, I saw that I stated:

I'm transitioning, so I'll be happy when I'm finally, fully nappy!

Well, I BCd last month and I can say with the utmost certainty that I'm happy to be fully nappy!

not everyone has the same frame of reference, but there is no denying that there is a stigma/negative connotation attached to the word. Let's not act brand new. If you didn't know before, upon interaction with others you will find out. Still don't understand the attachment, when there are accurate alternatives.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not acting "brand new"; I acknowledged several times that I was aware of the negative connotation, even though I never personally witnessed it being used that way growing up. However, being aware doesn't mean that everyone has the same frame of reference re: the scope of those negative connotations. If I was like other ladies in the thread, who had only ever heard the word used negatively, my feelings about the word might be different - but I still wouldn't judge other people's use of the word as wrong, misguided, or perpetuating inferiority, esp when the full picture of the word, its etymology and usage was presented.

And once again, you're overstating people's feelings about the word by characterizing it as "attachment". I don't see my usage of "nappy" as embracing it or being personally invested in the word. However, I do like my hair and by extension, any word I use to describe it will probably reflect that, so I see how it could come off that way.

 

[beans4reezy]

You never hear anyone say: "Ugh your hair is so CURLY, why don't you do something to it?" Or.... "Curly-headed hoes".

Sorry, nothing constructive to add. I just almost spit out my water laughing at this...

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

not everyone has the same frame of reference, but there is no denying that there is a stigma/negative connotation attached to the word. Let's not act brand new. If you didn't know before, upon interaction with others you will find out. Still don't understand the attachment, when there are accurate alternatives.

ETA: I read a book last year called "Out of the House of Bondage", that investigated gender politics on the plantation. One part of the book that stood out to me was the chapter that discussed the dynamics between black women and white women. Often times, when the slave master was away their wives would abuse the hell out of the black women and the book went into graphic detail about the sadistic methods they would use, like scalding their tongues for extended periods of time, driving pins through their tongues and hands/fingers, while calling them "nappy headed bi*&%". After learning things like that, I just can't bring myself to use the word. Yes, in some spaces it is light hearted and "innocent", but knowing how it was used and continues to be used in MOST spaces, it is easier for me to just say curly or coily or something. There's no politics or stigma attached to those words and "black hair" is so diverse that it can coil, curl, wave and "fro" on any day of the week depending on how you style it. It doesn't mean that I am running away from my hair by not calling it nappy; i'm simply trying to bury and kill the power of a word that almost never has a positive connotation.

Wow.... Thanks for sharing this. I had no idea.


Just yet another reason why I prefer to call my hair "coily", "kinky", "natural", or "afro-textrured" instead of "nappy".

Those negative connotations don't just exist for no good reason. Usually they have historical reasons, just like any other word that is used to degrade, bash, or put down others.

I have coily hair.....there, I said it. Besides, IMO the term "nappy" is used only to describe the CONDITION of one's hair...NOT the texture. For example....someone's hair is "tangled" or "nappy" IMO if/when they haven't taken the time to remove the knots or tangles from their hair. But healthy, well-taken care of type 4a/b hair is NOT "nappy"...in fact it can be very soft.

So, I refuse to use such a word that does not accurately describe my hair type in the proper way. But if others wish to continue to use that term....feel free. I just won't be using that word. It's degrading IMO, and sadly I haven't been fortunate enough to live in an environment/area that uses the word "nappy" in a positive sense.

 

[Nonie]

i think u and nonie are totally missing the point i'm making and totally misinterpreted everything i saiderplexed

Not true, Kurlee. I'm totally getting everything you are saying. You hate the word coz it was used with disdain on us. I am sure so was the word "black" and "African". I mean, before the N-word was "adopted" into English to insult us in the 1700s (Please note the N-word never entered English innocently so it doesn't compare to the word nappy), I am sure there were words that described us honestly that were used daily and which we never took offense to and continue to use them. "Bloody Africans" might've been one. I mean they knew they brought Africans to their land, so I don't doubt that came up a few times, and that it was used with disdain with a few other choice words to emphasize the contempt.

I think Nappyrina might really be onto something when she suspects that the word nappy upsets people because of what it represents. If you do a search on the forum, you will find people who were honest enough to admit that they would never go natural EVER if they had 4B hair. They made no apologies and I actually applaud their honesty. There are also Youtube videos of blacks dissing 4B hair and encouraging folks to fix it by straightening it, calling it "slave hair". I do not think of myself as a slave so would not call my hair slave hair, but that doesn't change the fact that the speaker would not think my hair cute whether I called it coily, textured or whatever other names you think are nicer than nappy.

Kurlee, I haven't asked you to accept the word. I've explained to you WHY I love the word, why I will use the word, why your suggestion not to is ludicrous to me. I give examples of how innocent a word it is to me. You saying I don't get you is expecting me to change whom I am and become someone that sees the word differently. It's like someone who doesn't eat liver coming to try to beg me to eat something else because there are so many other sources of iron that are better looking and tasting than liver and then trying some scare tactics of pointing out that the liver cleans the body so has to be filthy and very unhealthy (a statement that obviously shows the speaker has no idea exactly HOW the liver works--not unlike the misunderstanding folks have of "nappy"). If someone doesn't like liver, what has THAT got to do with me? Just say no, and let me say yes. I love liver. I refuse to listen to any myths that folks use to discourage me from eating it. It ISN'T those things "haters" think it is to me but is actually one of my favorite foods. I won't order anything else at Clyde's restaurant but their liver entrée. That's how much I love liver.

So if you don't get what we are saying because you "hate liver" and can't get down with our thinking, OK. So be it. Do you. Don't have anything to do with it, but don't also get your knickers in a bunch because I choose to 100% associated with it.

In life, people will disagree on a lot of things but so what? I refuse to go to confession or pray to Mary and think it totally crazy, but that doesn't mean I'll harp on about how crazy I find it to a Catholic for whom that is the most normal thing to do and a good thing. Now if they ask me why I don't do those things I will tell them, but not so that they stop doing them. It's up to them to decide if my reason is good enough or not. And when I ask them why they do them, and they tell me, it shouldn't be a cue that now I must join them in their practices. It's up to me to decide if what they say makes sense to me and whether it's something I want to be a part of. And so we continue to live alongside each other, me doing my thing and the Catholic doing his/her thing. Thus it should be with nappy-headed women who are happy to be nappy and coily/curly-headed women who insist they are not nappy. Live and let live.

One last thing, I think we would all do well to think outside the box and realize that if Germans were talking and they used a word that sounded like the N word, they would not be doing it with malice because that is the word for black in their tongue. You have to look at the source and the intent. So supposed you coily-headed friend of mine and I were out somewhere and I was talking about my child and I happened to mention her nappy hair... As you instinctively clutch your pearls in horror at the "insult" I just laid on my child, I hope that as your brain catches up with what your ears just processed, you will take a step back and realize that in "my language" the word is not what it is in "your language"...and loosen the grip on your pearls. I never think anything negative when I say the word nappy and even if I slipped and said it of your hair, instead of you karate chopping me into next week, again realize that I say it innocently (no hidden agenda at all) and ease up on the anger and then kindly remind me what you prefer I call your hair, and I will make every effort to respect that.

ETA A bit OT from the above response, but I found the line "you never hear curly headed hos" funny coz you don't know what someone else called a curly headed lady that upset them. Maybe Imus didn't say it, but Imus obviously had an issue with the girls being black since their hair wasn't even kinky. And why you didn't hear "curly headed hos" is because the only people that have kinky hair are blacks. Both blacks and white have curly hair. Calling black people "curly haired" would be in Imus' mind including himself or his people in that group. By referring to them as "kinky haired" it became clear in the mind of anyone listening, what race he was talking about. I rarely think of white folks when someone says "she has kinky hair". Not saying there can't be some white person somewhere with very tiny coils, but that's not the race that comes to mind w/r/t kinky hair.

Hmm :scratchch, Nappyrina's point can't help coming to mind again. The only people that could be called kinky-haired are blacks coz majority of us have that sort of hair. As long as it's not us (or some deluded us) hurling insults, I doubt you'd hear any white person calling you a "curly haired ho" coz that'd be including himself too in the insult since curly hair exists in their race. Imus wanted to make sure he made it very clear which sort of people he was talking about.

Now if I were militant (or had the mind of some people like Imus), I'd want nothing to do with words that might be mistaken to include those that oppressed us. I'd be of the mind, "Yes, my hair is curly/coily but don't you dare call it curly, it's kinky, nappy, VERY TIGHTLY coiled!"

 

[Kurlee]

Not true, Kurlee. I'm totally getting everything you are saying. You hate the word coz it was used with disdain on us. I am sure so was the word "black" and "African". I mean, before the N-word was "adopted" into English to insult us in the 1700s (Please note the N-word never entered English innocently so it doesn't compare to the word nappy), I am sure there were words that described us honestly that were used daily and which we never took offense to and continue to use them. "Bloody Africans" might've been one. I mean they knew they brought Africans to their land, so I don't doubt that came up a few times, and that it was used with disdain with a few other choice words to emphasize the contempt.

I think Nappyrina might really be onto something when she suspects that the word nappy upsets people because of what it represents. If you do a search on the forum, you will find people who were honest enough to admit that they would never go natural EVER if they had 4B hair. They made no apologies and I actually applaud their honesty. There are also Youtube videos of blacks dissing 4B hair and encouraging folks to fix it by straightening it, calling it "slave hair". I do not think of myself as a slave so would not call my hair slave hair, but that doesn't change the fact that the speaker would not think my hair cute whether I called it coily, textured or whatever other names you think are nicer than nappy.

Kurlee, I haven't asked you to accept the word. I've explained to you WHY I love the word, why I will use the word, why your suggestion not to is ludicrous to me. I give examples of how innocent a word it is to me. You saying I don't get you is expecting me to change whom I am and become someone that sees the word differently. It's like someone who doesn't eat liver coming to try to beg me to eat something else because there are so many other sources of iron that are better looking and tasting than liver and then trying some scare tactics of pointing out that the liver cleans the body so has to be filthy and very unhealthy (a statement that obviously shows the speaker has no idea exactly HOW the liver works--not unlike the misunderstanding folks have of "nappy"). If someone doesn't like liver, what has THAT got to do with me? Just say no, and let me say yes. I love liver. I refuse to listen to any myths that folks use to discourage me from eating it. It ISN'T those things "haters" think it is to me but is actually one of my favorite foods. I won't order anything else at Clyde's restaurant but their liver entrée. That's how much I love liver.

So if you don't get what we are saying because you "hate liver" and can't get down with our thinking, OK. So be it. Do you. Don't have anything to do with it, but don't also get your knickers in a bunch because I choose to 100% associated with it.

In life, people will disagree on a lot of things but so what? I refuse to go to confession or pray to Mary and think it totally crazy, but that doesn't mean I'll harp on about how crazy I find it to a Catholic for whom that is the most normal thing to do and a good thing. Now if they ask me why I don't do those things I will tell them, but not so that they stop doing them. It's up to them to decide if my reason is good enough or not. And when I ask them why they do them, and they tell me, it shouldn't be a cue that now I must join them in their practices. It's up to me to decide if what they say makes sense to me and whether it's something I want to be a part of. And so we continue to live alongside each other, me doing my thing and the Catholic doing his/her thing. Thus it should be with nappy-headed women who are happy to be nappy and coily/curly-headed women who insist they are not nappy. Live and let live.

One last thing, I think we would all do well to think outside the box and realize that if Germans were talking and they used a word that sounded like the N word, they would not be doing it with malice because that is the word for black in their tongue. You have to look at the source and the intent. So supposed you coily-headed friend of mine and I were out somewhere and I was talking about my child and I happened to mention her nappy hair... As you instinctively clutch your pearls in horror at the "insult" I just laid on my child, I hope that as your brain catches up with what your ears just processed, you will take a step back and realize that in "my language" the word is not what it is in "your language"...and loosen the grip on your pearls. I never think anything negative when I say the word nappy and even if I slipped and said it of your hair, instead of you karate chopping me into next week, again realize that I say it innocently (no hidden agenda at all) and ease up on the anger and then kindly remind me what you prefer I call your hair, and I will make every effort to respect that.

judging from this post and the others, i will reiterate that you TOTALLY misunderstand what I am trying to say and do not understand my viewpoint or my objective in sharing it. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[ceebee3]

Not true, Kurlee. I'm totally getting everything you are saying. You hate the word coz it was used with disdain on us. I am sure so was the word "black" and "African". I mean, before the N-word was "adopted" into English to insult us in the 1700s (Please note the N-word never entered English innocently so it doesn't compare to the word nappy), I am sure there were words that described us honestly that were used daily and which we never took offense to and continue to use them. "Bloody Africans" might've been one. I mean they knew they brought Africans to their land, so I don't doubt that came up a few times, and that it was used with disdain with a few other choice words to emphasize the contempt.

I think Nappyrina might really be onto something when she suspects that the word nappy upsets people because of what it represents. If you do a search on the forum, you will find people who were honest enough to admit that they would never go natural EVER if they had 4B hair. They made no apologies and I actually applaud their honesty. There are also Youtube videos of blacks dissing 4B hair and encouraging folks to fix it by straightening it, calling it "slave hair". I do not think of myself as a slave so would not call my hair slave hair, but that doesn't change the fact that the speaker would not think my hair cute whether I called it coily, textured or whatever other names you think are nicer than nappy.

Kurlee, I haven't asked you to accept the word. I've explained to you WHY I love the word, why I will use the word, why your suggestion not to is ludicrous to me. I give examples of how innocent a word it is to me. You saying I don't get you is expecting me to change whom I am and become someone that sees the word differently. It's like someone who doesn't eat liver coming to try to beg me to eat something else because there are so many other sources of iron that are better looking and tasting than liver and then trying some scare tactics of pointing out that the liver cleans the body so has to be filthy and very unhealthy (a statement that obviously shows the speaker has no idea exactly HOW the liver works--not unlike the misunderstanding folks have of "nappy"). If someone doesn't like liver, what has THAT got to do with me? Just say no, and let me say yes. I love liver. I refuse to listen to any myths that folks use to discourage me from eating it. It ISN'T those things "haters" think it is to me but is actually one of my favorite foods. I won't order anything else at Clyde's restaurant but their liver entrée. That's how much I love liver.

So if you don't get what we are saying because you "hate liver" and can't get down with our thinking, OK. So be it. Do you. Don't have anything to do with it, but don't also get your knickers in a bunch because I choose to 100% associated with it.

In life, people will disagree on a lot of things but so what? I refuse to go to confession or pray to Mary and think it totally crazy, but that doesn't mean I'll harp on about how crazy I find it to a Catholic for whom that is the most normal thing to do and a good thing. Now if they ask me why I don't do those things I will tell them, but not so that they stop doing them. It's up to them to decide if my reason is good enough or not. And when I ask them why they do them, and they tell me, it shouldn't be a cue that now I must join them in their practices. It's up to me to decide if what they say makes sense to me and whether it's something I want to be a part of. And so we continue to live alongside each other, me doing my thing and the Catholic doing his/her thing. Thus it should be with nappy-headed women who are happy to be nappy and coily/curly-headed women who insist they are not nappy. Live and let live.

One last thing, I think we would all do well to think outside the box and realize that if Germans were talking and they used a word that sounded like the N word, they would not be doing it with malice because that is the word for black in their tongue. You have to look at the source and the intent. So supposed you coily-headed friend of mine and I were out somewhere and I was talking about my child and I happened to mention her nappy hair... As you instinctively clutch your pearls in horror at the "insult" I just laid on my child, I hope that as your brain catches up with what your ears just processed, you will take a step back and realize that in "my language" the word is not what it is in "your language"...and loosen the grip on your pearls. I never think anything negative when I say the word nappy and even if I slipped and said it of your hair, instead of you karate chopping me into next week, again realize that I say it innocently (no hidden agenda at all) and ease up on the anger and then kindly remind me what you prefer I call your hair, and I will make every effort to respect that.

ETA A bit OT from the above response, but I found the line "you never hear curly headed hos" funny coz you don't know what someone else called a curly headed lady that upset them. Maybe Imus didn't say it, but Imus obviously had an issue with the girls being black since their hair wasn't even kinky. And why you didn't hear "curly headed hos" is because the only people that have kinky hair are blacks. Both blacks and white have curly hair. Calling black people "curly haired" would be in Imus' mind including himself or his people in that group. By referring to them as "kinky haired" it became clear in the mind of anyone listening, what race he was talking about. I rarely think of white folks when someone says "she has kinky hair". Not saying there can't be some white person somewhere with very tiny coils, but that's not the race that comes to mind w/r/t kinky hair.

Hmm :scratchch, Nappyrina's point can't help coming to mind again. The only people that could be called kinky-haired are blacks coz majority of us have that sort of hair. As long as it's not us (or some deluded us) hurling insults, I doubt you'd hear any white person calling you a "curly haired ho" coz that'd be including himself too in the insult since curly hair exists in their race. Imus wanted to make sure he made it very clear which sort of people he was talking about.

Now if I were militant, I'd want nothing to do with words that might be mistaken to include those that oppressed us. I'd be of the mind, "Yes, my hair is curly/coily but don't you dare call it curly, it's kinky, nappy, VERY TIGHTLY coiled!"

THANK YOU!!!!! Excellent Post, Nonie!

 

[lovenharmony]

Taking back? It shouldn't even exist as far as I'm concerned!

 

[ceebee3]

As I've stated before my hair is nappy, no other word describes it best. I have nappy hair, my mom and dad have nappy hair, my children have nappy hair.

They all love it.

The problem isn't the word, the problem is people don't like what's growing from their heads.

I'm still erplexed at how nappy means unkempt. I've always had nappy hair, my hair has never been unkempt.

 

[Nonie]

Taking back? It shouldn't even exist as far as I'm concerned!

What's so funny is we're talking about NAPPY--an English word that means "tightly curled/coiled".

I wonder if some would also wish the description "tightly curled/coiled" didn't exist, or better yet hair that could be described as such didn't exist.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

I think some people are more upset at the negative connotation the word "Nappy" has...and not necessariliy the "innocent" dictionary definition that the word supposedly possesses.

For example, the word "Gay" used to mean someone who was very happy or joyful. Of course, now in the 21st century, almost NOBODY thinks of the word "happy" when they hear the word "Gay"...or "is he gay?" So sometimes it's also good to take into account the way the meaning of words have been changed throughout the years in history.

Even the OTHER "N-word" wasn't ordinarily a term used soley for blacks. And neither was the word "Ghetto". But over the years the N-word turned into a derrogatory term used SOELY to describe and denigrate black people. Some blacks could say that they are "innocently" using the "N-word" as a term of endearment, but again...if someone doesn't choose to use such a word seeing as how it has had a negative connotation through history which has been used to oppress and degrade people, then I don't think that the person who refuses to use such a word should be villainized either. If you want to use the word...fine. But if others choose NOT to use the word, then can you really blame them??

Just some other things to think about...courtesy of BillCasselman.com:

Etymology of THe Word Nappy

The word nappy began its life innocently enough as the adjectival offspring of the word nap. Nap is a fuzzy surface layer on yarn or cloth. Nap is teased up or raised higher by brushing the cloth against a rough surface. Our common weed teasel is named because it was used long ago to tease up the nap on cloth. Nap on wool was often shaved off and used to fill pillows. A number of words were brought to England during the 14th and 15th centuries by Dutch weavers who came to Britain to ply their trade. One of these words from Middle Dutch was noppich , ‘nappy’ an adjective referring to cloth that had a fiber-thick surface layer that could be trimmed down or teased up and cut even.

Late in the 18th century or early in the 19th century, Americans in the southern U.S. began to refer to negro slaves as nappy heads, comparing some tightly curled negroid hair to the nap on some cloth or fur. It was not a compliment. Beaver hats were said in early Victorian times to have a ‘fine, black nap.’

Then, as happened in history with many terms of abuse, those abused, the black slaves, took to using the word among themselves with affection, partly as a method of ‘taking back the hurt’ in the insult and partly out of the sheer exuberant play of language that all people share. There are 19th century letters from black mothers to distant daughters where the mother addresses her girl as “my sweet little nappy head.” What white racists don’t seem to get is the black imprimatur of such language. That usage is permissible among blacks, but when whites say it, it’s racist. That does not seem like rocket science, and yet hundreds of thousands of Americans seem too dense to clue into such circumscribed linguistic parameters. Words freighted with deep emotional import and electrified by taboo are dangerous cargo. Use them and you sink with them.

IMO it doesn't get any clearer than that. But....to each his or her own....

 

[Nonie]

I think some people are more upset at the negative connotation the word "Nappy" has...and not necessariliy the "innocent" dictionary definition that the word supposedly possesses.

For example, the word "Gay" used to mean someone who was very happy or joyful. Of course, now in the 21st century, almost NOBODY thinks of the word "happy" when they hear the word "Gay"...or "is he gay?" So sometimes it's also good to take into account the way the meaning of words have been changed throughout the years in history.

Even the OTHER "N-word" wasn't ordinarily a term used soley for blacks. And neither was the word "Ghetto". But over the years the N-word turned into a derrogatory term used SOELY to describe and denigrate black people. Some blacks could say that they are "innocently" using the "N-word" as a term of endearment, but again...if someone doesn't choose to use such a word seeing as how it has had a negative connotation through history which has been used to oppress and degrade people, then I don't think that the person who refuses to use such a word should be villainized either. If you want to use the word...fine. But if others choose NOT to use the word, then can you really blame them??

Just some other things to think about...courtesy of BillCasselman.com:

Quote:
Etymology of THe Word Nappy

The word nappy began its life innocently enough as the adjectival offspring of the word nap. Nap is a fuzzy surface layer on yarn or cloth. Nap is teased up or raised higher by brushing the cloth against a rough surface. Our common weed teasel is named because it was used long ago to tease up the nap on cloth. Nap on wool was often shaved off and used to fill pillows. A number of words were brought to England during the 14th and 15th centuries by Dutch weavers who came to Britain to ply their trade. One of these words from Middle Dutch was noppich , ‘nappy’ an adjective referring to cloth that had a fiber-thick surface layer that could be trimmed down or teased up and cut even.

Late in the 18th century or early in the 19th century, Americans in the southern U.S. began to refer to negro slaves as nappy heads, comparing some tightly curled negroid hair to the nap on some cloth or fur. It was not a compliment. Beaver hats were said in early Victorian times to have a ‘fine, black nap.’

Then, as happened in history with many terms of abuse, those abused, the black slaves, took to using the word among themselves with affection, partly as a method of ‘taking back the hurt’ in the insult and partly out of the sheer exuberant play of language that all people share. There are 19th century letters from black mothers to distant daughters where the mother addresses her girl as “my sweet little nappy head.” What white racists don’t seem to get is the black imprimatur of such language. That usage is permissible among blacks, but when whites say it, it’s racist. That does not seem like rocket science, and yet hundreds of thousands of Americans seem too dense to clue into such circumscribed linguistic parameters. Words freighted with deep emotional import and electrified by taboo are dangerous cargo. Use them and you sink with them.

IMO it doesn't get any clearer than that. But....to each his or her own....

Did you really expect any compliments from slave masters? Nothing they said whether true or not was meant as a compliment. But fuzzy to me is a way I'd describe a type of hair that looked like mine especially if I'd never seen it before. Y'all acting like fuzzy is a bad thing. I think I'd have said the same thing too. In fact, none of my coworkers ever knew my hair was curly until I showed them my twists close-up. I suspect they would've described it as fuzzy with no malice whatsoever. When I hear fuzzy, I think this:

or this:

And I think the first pic actually might be a close resemblance of how our hair might've looked by the time we got here, considering it'd been a long journey w/ no tools/time to style our hair.
I think calling our hair a word that means fuzzy was better than if they'd touched in it its dry, ungroomed state and said, "porcupine" or "hedgehog" or "stiff brush" or "steel wool". I don't think nappy was a compliment OR an insult. It was a description of how the hair looked. That it was said with a look of disgust didn't change the meaning of the word. Y'all are really determined eh?

 

[Kurlee]

I think some people are more upset at the negative connotation the word "Nappy" has...and not necessariliy the "innocent" dictionary definition that the word supposedly possesses.

For example, the word "Gay" used to mean someone who was very happy or joyful. Of course, now in the 21st century, almost NOBODY thinks of the word "happy" when they hear the word "Gay"...or "is he gay?" So sometimes it's also good to take into account the way the meaning of words have been changed throughout the years in history.

Even the OTHER "N-word" wasn't ordinarily a term used soley for blacks. And neither was the word "Ghetto". But over the years the N-word turned into a derrogatory term used SOELY to describe and denigrate black people. Some blacks could say that they are "innocently" using the "N-word" as a term of endearment, but again...if someone doesn't choose to use such a word seeing as how it has had a negative connotation through history which has been used to oppress and degrade people, then I don't think that the person who refuses to use such a word should be villainized either. If you want to use the word...fine. But if others choose NOT to use the word, then can you really blame them??

Just some other things to think about...courtesy of BillCasselman.com:



IMO it doesn't get any clearer than that. But....to each his or her own....

awesome post. Like I said earlier, with soooooooooooo much attached to the world that is negative, it makes sense to me to just not use it all. Choosing to use it, will not change it's meaning. It's not about being ashamed of your hair, but rejecting something that clearly has no benefit to me or the "community". Thanks for your post.

 

[ceebee3]

Did you really expect any compliments from slave masters? Nothing they said whether true or not was meant as a compliment. But fuzzy to me is a way I'd describe a type of hair I'd never seen. Y'all acting like fuzzy is a bad thing. I think I'd have said the same thing too. When I hear fuzzy, I think this:

I think calling our hair a word that means fuzzy was better than if they'd touched in it its dry, ungroomed state and said, "porcupine" or "hedgehog" or "stiff brush" or "steel wool". I don't think nappy was a compliment OR an insult. It was a description of how the hair looked. That it was said with a look of disgust didn't change the meaning of the word. Y'all are really determined eh?

Yes, they are. Just let their "curly" be great.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

Did you really expect any compliments from slave masters? Nothing they said whether true or not was meant as a compliment.

So....I guess that excuses it?

That it was said with a look of disgust didn't change the meaning of the word. Y'all are really determined eh?

lol....just stating the facts!

awesome post. Like I said earlier, with soooooooooooo much attached to the world that is negative, it makes sense to me to just not use it all. Choosing to use it, will not change it's meaning. It's not about being ashamed of your hair, but rejecting something that clearly has no benefit to me or the "community". Thanks for your post.

NP!

 

[Nonie]

I hate how you can't quote a quote in a post. I'd like to keep all the formatting Crystalicequeen used coz I think that article echoes what I have been saying.

Let's look at each of the lines you emphasized:

Etymology of THe Word Nappy

The word nappy began its life innocently enough as the adjectival offspring of the word nap. Nap is a fuzzy surface layer on yarn or cloth.

I am glad we all agree on that, both curly-headed chicks and nappy-headed chicks. And I'm fine with that.

One of these words from Middle Dutch was noppich , ‘nappy’ an adjective referring to cloth that had a fiber-thick surface layer that could be trimmed down or teased up and cut even.

OK, exactly how is this not very close to describing what my hair that looks like thick fibers that can be trimmed down, teased up and cut even...not be a good description of my hair. I mean, these people had hair that was so different from ours, so I applaud them for finding a word that was so accurate. Makes it even seem more thoroughly descriptive than the word "kinky".

Americans in the southern U.S. began to refer to negro slaves as nappy heads, comparing some tightly curled negroid hair to the nap on some cloth or fur.

What else were they supposed to compare it to? If I were to be honest and sit back and describe 4B hair to someone who can't see or feel due to some accident but who previously had worked with items that look like nappy hair, I'd not help it if I ended up using animals, inanimate object, anything in life that kinda resembles it. They didn't call us cloth. They used a word that described our hair's resemblance to the fibers on cloth. Y'all are getting mad at that? Really?

It was not a compliment.

This is the part of the whole article that made me wonder who the author thinks his audience are. Does anyone who understands slavery seriously, I mean really, even for ONE SECOND think in their heads that slave masters would come up with complimentary words for their slaves? And so they find a word that is very honest-to-God accurate in describing our hair and so we're going to hate it, despite its innocence in meaning, because it was not a compliment? Give me a friggin' break, y'all. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

Then, as happened in history with many terms of abuse, those abused, the black slaves, took to using the word among themselves with affection, partly as a method of ‘taking back the hurt’ in the insult and partly out of the sheer exuberant play of language that all people share.

Well this doesn't speak about me coz the word never was bad to me. I never "took back" the word, coz I never had given it away to anyone or had any problem with it. I used it as comfortably as I used kinky with no knowledge whatsoever that folks on the other side of the world were turning it into something more than a mere description.

But if some started to do this, and it gave them a kind of peace and feeling of being no longer victims, but rather of turning it around and making the "bullets turn to duds", why is this a problem to anyone? Gosh, seems to me that some people are just determined to stay in shackles. If slaves, the real people for whom this word was painful, were able to turn it around--without even knowing why the word came to be used about them--why is it that we who know the TRUTH are still acting like we think it is an insult when we know better?

I find it quite interesting that the article you quote that is supposed to be clearest of all as to why I mustn't use the word did nothing to convince me that the word is bad. If anything it just gave me more peace in using the word to describe 4B hair.

 

[lovenharmony]

What's so funny is we're talking about NAPPY--an English word that means "tightly curled/coiled".

I wonder if some would also wish the description "tightly curled/coiled" didn't exist, or better yet hair that could be described as such didn't exist.

I'm sure there are some that would rather "tightly curled/coiled" hair didn't exist...fortunately I'm not one of them I love natural hair to the extent that I can't wait to have a head full of my own tightly coiled hair. I just feel that the word itself has been used in the past to insult an entire race so I would rather the N word not be used to define any part of my being.

I understand the context of why some are not bothered by the word since the "actual" meaning in the dictionary does in fact represent the texture of 4B hair. However, there are many words in the dictionary that are "actual " words, but are continuously used negatively. I refuse to answer to being called a female dog, (b.i.t.c.h.) a tool used for farming crops (h.o.e.) or having nappy hair (baby diaper, carpet, velvet cloth, small dish...take your pick). Black people did not come up with that word for our hair...our slave masters did, just like the other N word. It is a fact that the N word has been linked to humiliation, hate, and oppresion, so IMO the only way to take away it's power is to not use it at all.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect your decision to embrace the word as I do all others who use it in a non insulting way. but that doesn't mean that I won't give someone the side eye if they refer to my hair as being so.

Great discussion BTW!

 

[Kurlee]

Yes, they are. Just let their "curly" be great.

u really think this about curly vs. not curly and not liking our hair? Ya'll are really missing the point then and really only want to hear what you want to hear. Ya'll are from nappturality, huh?

 

[Kurlee]

oh and newsflash, not everyone has 4b hair and those who usually claim to have it, usually have a lot or "curls/coils" in their head and it resembles and old school telephone cord, more so than those pics of furballs or whatever they were above.

 

[ceebee3]

u really think this about curly vs. not curly and not liking our hair? Ya'll are really missing the point then and really only want to hear what you want to hear. Ya'll are from nappturality, huh?

I'm not missing the point, but I think you are. I understand why some people don't like the word but have you actually read Nonie's posts?

The word is just a description, a perfect one for most afro-textured heads. It's not negative at all.

I've never been to Napturality but with all the press they get on this site, I need to check it out.

I don't think it's about curly vs. not curly, I just think people hear the word and never take the time to understand it. That happens with many words though.

When I was growing up nappy was never bad, it just is. I do think people feel ashamed when someone calls their hair nappy, I'm just not one of those people.

 

[Kurlee]

I'm not missing the point, but I think you are. I understand why some people don't like the word but have you actually read Nonie's posts?

The word is just a description, a perfect one for most afro-textured heads. It's not negative at all.

I've never been to Napturality but with all the press they get on this site, I need to check it out.

I don't think it's about curly vs. not curly, I just think people hear the word and never take the time to understand it. That happens with many words though.

When I was growing up nappy was never bad, it just is. I do think people feel ashamed when someone calls their hair nappy, I'm just not one of those people.

read every single word and totally disagree All i'm saying is, to detach the word from it's implications and it's common use, as well as it's longstanding history, is not a good idea. I just can't gloss it over. I totally understand that yes, in some people's minds it may be a good adjective, but for me, it's much more than that. The only reason, I said curly vs. non curly is because someone posted a sarcastic comment, "let their curly hair be great". I dunno about you, but when my is naked, wet, or whatever you want to call it, it curls. Some big, some small. I can't change that. I just don't think divorcing the term from it's "evolved" meaning is a good thing, when most people I see who are "black", tend to have curly, coily, wavy hair. I have yet to see a "black" whose hair looks like those treasure trolls from the 90's without being combed out, blowdried or manipulated in some way. . . .

 

[ceebee3]

read every single word and totally disagree All i'm saying is, to detach the word from it's implications and it's common use, as well as it's longstanding history, is not a good idea. I just can't gloss it over. I totally understand that yes, in some people's minds it may be a good adjective, but for me, it's much more than that. The only reason, I said curly vs. non curly is because someone posted a sarcastic comment, "let their curly hair be great". I dunno about you, but when my is naked, wet, or whatever you want to call it, it curls. Some big, some small. I can't change that. I just don't think divorcing the term from it's "evolved" meaning is a good thing, when most people I see who are "black", tend to have curly, coily, wavy hair. I have yet to see a "black" whose hair looks like those treasure trolls from the 90's without being combed out, blowdried or manipulated in some way. . . .

That was me. I get where you are coming from and I'm not saying to gloss over it, just look at it for what it is. I don't have an issue with the word curly, some people do have curly hairl. I have some curly hair but nappy describes my hair best.

Now why the treasure trolls? I think your perception of nappy is really way off. Nappy isn't ugly, uncombed hair looking like you stuck your finger in an electric socket. It's just the texture. You can be styled to the nines and still be nappy.

 

[ceebee3]

oh and newsflash, not everyone has 4b hair and those who usually claim to have it, usually have a lot or "curls/coils" in their head and it resembles and old school telephone cord, more so than those pics of furballs or whatever they were above.

I don't get into hair typing, I just don't get it but you don't have to be 4b to be nappy.