Who Is Being Unreasonable?

[dream13]

My MIL is toxic, manipulative, narcissistic, and a liar. She has caused many problems in my marriage, and in my husband’s life in general. He has threatened to to cut her off many times over the years, but she just plays the victim, and then badmouths him to anyone that will listen. This includes his ex (mom to his kids) and her family, out of state friends, other family members, and even on social media. They won’t speak for a few months at a time, and then he’ll slowly let her back in...until she does something else.

Generally DH and I agree on most things, but as the holidays are fast approaching, we aren’t seeing eye to eye on how to deal with her.

We just bought a new home, and I want to host Christmas dinner this year. But he wants to invite her, and I don’t want her in my home. I like my peace and I need my boundaries to be respected. My MIL has acted out at EVERY event we have invited her to. And I don’t want her or her bad energy ruining the holidays for everyone else. My husband says that if his family is not invited, he doesn’t want to host at all.

Who is being unreasonable here?

 

[Everything Zen]

Counter question: What made you think that your DH was going to change his ways regarding his dealings with his mother? I’m not saying your request isn’t unreasonable given the history. I’m saying he sounds like he’s acting pretty consistently for who he is and you’re trying to make him change.

 

[awhyley]

Sounds like he's on the "She'll always be your mother" trip. Since they always reconcile, sadly you're going to continue having this problem. He knows how she is, she's his mother. This is a tough one because if you don't stand your ground, you guys will never host anything major without her presence if he gets his way. A compromise is in order where you guys can invite her "some other time". Good luck.

 

[dream13]

Counter question: What made you think that your DH was going to change his ways regarding his dealings with his mother? I’m not saying your request isn’t unreasonable given the history. I’m saying he sounds like he’s acting pretty consistently for who he is and you’re trying to make him change.

Because she does not usually spend holidays with us. And she lives 15 min away, and we haven’t been in each other’s home in years.

He is being consistent in the way he deals with her, however he also knows that I choose not to deal with her at all.

 

[awhyley]

Because she does not usually spend holidays with us. And she lives 15 min away, and we haven’t been in each other’s home in years.

Oh, this is new information. I thought that this was an out-of-town situation. Since it's the holidays, she's bound to just "show up". You may have to bite the bullet on this one.

 

[Black Ambrosia]

What makes you think she'll even come if she never spends the holidays with you? Was she uninvited the other years and that's why she didn't come? How long have you been married? Unless you're recently married, it seems like this should've come up before you moved into the new house. Did you allow her in the old house but don't want to go there in the new one?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to understand.

 

[B_Phlyy]

Invite her but make sure she is either the last person to be there and have a strict time limit.

 

[awhyley]

What makes you think she'll even come if she never spends the holidays with you? Was she uninvited the other years and that's why she didn't come? How long have you been married? Unless you're recently married, it seems like this should've come up before you moved into the new house. Did you allow her in the old house but don't want to go there in the new one?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to understand.

I'm not the OP, but I figure that she's stopping by this year just to look at the new things, (and make judgement calls). Also, I figure that they live closer now than last year. MIL coming through like;

 

[Lylddlebit]

In this case not hosting at all may be the best bet.

My husband says that if his family is not invited, he doesn’t want to host at all.

I have a toxic relative in my immediate family whom I love dearly. She and I probably have the most functional and normal facing relationship that she has in her life. The reason why is because I only deal with her in situations where I have enough control bow out or shift gears quickly and gracefully when she has an episode. Hosting an event with a group of people removes a lot of your flexibility to adapt to volatile behavior. I don't like the reason your husband gave you, at all. Too tit for tat. However creating a situation where your control of it is inherently limited is a very bad idea when dealing with someone whom you know to be toxic. When you deal with her you have to have flexibility to adapt to her behavior. When you aren't dealing with her your husband can't undermine your boundaries. I am by no means a marital expert but it's so not cool for a husband to intentionally place his spouse in volatile situations that not even he has healthy control over.

 

[frizzy]

What's her style of acting out? What does she do?

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

In this case not hosting at all may be the best bet.

I have a toxic relative in my immediate family whom I love dearly. She and I probably have the most functional and normal facing relationship that she has in her life. The reason why is because I only deal with her in situations where I have enough control bow out or shift gears quickly and gracefully when she has an episode. Hosting an event with a group of people removes a lot of your flexibility to adapt to volatile behavior. I don't like the reason your husband gave you, at all. Too tit for tat. However creating a situation where your control of it is inherently limited is a very bad idea when dealing with someone whom you know to be toxic. When you deal with her you have to have flexibility to adapt to her behavior. When you aren't dealing with her your husband can't undermine your boundaries. I am by no means a marital expert but it's so not cool for a husband to intentionally place his spouse in volatile situations that not even he has healthy control over.

I totally agree.

She wants to come by and check out stuff, once she's invited she will always be dropping by, after all she only lives 15 mins away

If you really want peace, don't have anything say; you rethought your decision and you'd prefer to keep it on a smaller scale.

 

[moneychaser]

What makes you think she'll even come if she never spends the holidays with you? Was she uninvited the other years and that's why she didn't come? How long have you been married? Unless you're recently married, it seems like this should've come up before you moved into the new house. Did you allow her in the old house but don't want to go there in the new one?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to understand.

She’ll show up to see their new house and be nosey!

 

[Lylddlebit]

I totally agree.

She wants to come by and check out stuff, once she's invited she will always be dropping by, after all she only lives 15 mins away

If you really want peace, don't have anything say; you rethought your decision and you'd prefer to keep it on a smaller scale.

So true. Even if you get what you want OP the problems that remain after on dinner between you and your husband based on someone who isn't even in your household aren't likely to be worth it. Same with DH getting what he wants in this scenario. The cost-benefit of analysis on what this will open up don't seem worth it based on the information presented so far.

 

[FoxxyLocs]

Maybe you can host a Christmas party that's not on the actual holiday. But I would not choose to host Christmas if having her there is the only option.

 

[dream13]

Sounds like he's on the "She'll always be your mother" trip. Since they always reconcile, sadly you're going to continue having this problem. He knows how she is, she's his mother. This is a tough one because if you don't stand your ground, you guys will never host anything major without her presence if he gets his way. A compromise is in order where you guys can invite her "some other time". Good luck.

That is his exact sentiment! And they’ve lost immediate family members, so I can understand the desire to maintain a close bond with her. However don’t invite that misery in my life.

Oh, this is new information. I thought that this was an out-of-town situation. Since it's the holidays, she's bound to just "show up". You may have to bite the bullet on this one.

I doubt it. She knows I don’t mess with her like that, and she knows she needs an invite.

What makes you think she'll even come if she never spends the holidays with you? Was she uninvited the other years and that's why she didn't come? How long have you been married? Unless you're recently married, it seems like this should've come up before you moved into the new house. Did you allow her in the old house but don't want to go there in the new one?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to understand.

Good point! She may not come. But from my understanding, she wants to be included with his family, and feels left out. She hasn’t been invited over since we’ve been married (4 years).

She has been invited to my old house, but that was years ago.

 

[dream13]

Invite her but make sure she is either the last person to be there and have a strict time limit.

This may work!

I'm not the OP, but I figure that she's stopping by this year just to look at the new things, (and make judgement calls). Also, I figure that they live closer now than last year. MIL coming through like;

I’d rather he just invite her over to see the house (when I’m not home). No need for her drama at a gathering.

In this case not hosting at all may be the best bet.

I have a toxic relative in my immediate family whom I love dearly. She and I probably have the most functional and normal facing relationship that she has in her life. The reason why is because I only deal with her in situations where I have enough control bow out or shift gears quickly and gracefully when she has an episode. Hosting an event with a group of people removes a lot of your flexibility to adapt to volatile behavior. I don't like the reason your husband gave you, at all. Too tit for tat. However creating a situation where your control of it is inherently limited is a very bad idea when dealing with someone whom you know to be toxic. When you deal with her you have to have flexibility to adapt to her behavior. When you aren't dealing with her your husband can't undermine your boundaries. I am by no means a marital expert but it's so not cool for a husband to intentionally place his spouse in volatile situations that not even he has healthy control over.

You said a mouthful Sis! I have told him this many times. He needs to step up and protect the peace in his home and marriage.

 

[dream13]

What's her style of acting out? What does she do?

A recent example: My husband had a work ceremony that she was the first to arrive to. So he asked her and some family members that came with her to hold an empty row of seats. It just happened to be at the back of a small auditorium. When I arrived, I found two seats close to the front, where my my mom and I sat. After the ceremony, she stormed out, refusing to take any pics, or even congratulate him. She eventually came back, after someone ran behind her, and took a pic with him, before leaving again. Afterwards everyone went to dinner to celebrate. She didn’t show up, but texted him the entire time about how he intentionally placed her in the back so that she wouldn’t be seen by anyone. What? Pure craziness. She killed the whole vibe on his special day.

She does this often, if it’s not about her she’s going to act up. This is one of the less egregious offenses.

 

[Everything Zen]

OP- I think you need to start prioritizing your peace of mind and let your husband play catch up. Be polite with MIL but limit your interactions and deal with her from a distance. Host dinner, sans her and let your DH figure it out. Like others have said it can even be on another day. Life's too short for drama and misery at the expense of your happiness. Hopefully one day you two can have a better relationship.

 

[aribell]

It seems that if you host a dinner and only exclude her it's necessarily going to get back to her and you'll have drama anyway because of the hurt feelings. That will be more of a burden on your husband than on you if his mother feels that he has excluded her from his home, and I don't think he's unreasonable in wanting to avoid that. If you really don't want her over (and is it just her or his family in general?) then I think it's fair of him to say you all shouldn't host at all.

 

[Black Ambrosia]

I wouldn’t host Christmas dinner. Not worth the drama.

 

[Mai Tai]

If she wants to be involved with you all as a family she needs to respect you BOTH! I'm on team Cancel Christmas.

 

[hopeful]

I think you are both being reasonable. Of course he wants his mom to come for Christmas. It’s not some weird cousin or uncle. It’s his mother. Regardless of what’s she’s done, he loves her and wants her there. One day he may be done, but that day has not come yet. And of course I don’t blame you one bit. Who would want that negative energy in their new home?

That said, I would host Christmas, let hubby invite her, and let him deal with any fall out. I think you are going to have to detach from the entire situation. It doesn’t sound like she is physically violent or like she will steal from you, etc. But she will attempt to draw attention to herself and create drama. My grandmother was similar. At one point all of her children banded together and told her that if she didn’t behave she would be excluded from major events. Sounds like your dh isn’t there yet. So, I’d let it go for now. Detach, expect her to be ridiculous, assume she will do something silly, have a sense of humor about it, ignore her, and let dh handle her.

Have your Christmas party. It may or may not turn out perfectly. But really, does anything? If this is your biggest issue with your dh, consider yourself lucky. There is always something going on that we don’t like. What can you do? Control what you can, do what you want, let some stuff go, and be as happy as you can be.

Also, there is obviously something a little off with your MIL. I think if you take a different approach, your dh will eventually see things differently or something else will change. Be just a little kinder and more patient with your dh. And thank your lucky stars she isn’t your mother .

 

[mrselle]

I am echoing everything @hopeful said. I get it. I have a mother-in-law who exhibits toxic behaviors. She has lied on me, lied to me, worked tirelessly to turn her family against me, undermined my role in my husband's life, disrespected me in my home and has worked tirelessly to turn her family against me. All of that and she has pretended to not understand why I keep her at arms length. I use to talk to my husband about her behaviors and I was getting nowhere. The situation didn't change until I changed. That meant me biting my tongue, turning the other cheek when I didn't feel like it and extending grace when I felt like she didn't deserve it. I have become a master at ignoring her behaviors. I speak, I'm cordial and then I move on. Life is too short to allow ONE person to steal your joy. Quite frankly, your mother-in-law behaves the way she does because it puts the focus on her. The worse thing you can do to a person like her is ignore her behavior and proceed to live your best life. Host the get together, invite your mother-in-law and enjoy your family.

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

I agree with @hopeful and it’s what I had to do with SO’s mom this Thanksgiving.

This is is his mother. No matter what she does he will likely always want her around for some part of the holidays. Truthfylly holidays are when I like to close my doors so I’m #TeamNoParty. If you end up hosting, tell him how you feel about her presence with “I-statements” and let him deal with her. That way you’re on record as having warned him, should she do something to upset your DH. Be cordial and pleasant with her but focus on the guests you are looking forward to see.

 

[quirkydimples]

And thank your lucky stars she isn’t your mother .

Indeed. Spoken from experience.

 

[hopeful]

Indeed. Spoken from experience.

Right?!

 

[Browndilocks]

I am echoing everything @hopeful said. I get it. I have a mother-in-law who exhibits toxic behaviors. She has lied on me, lied to me, worked tirelessly to turn her family against me, undermined my role in my husband's life, disrespected me in my home and has worked tirelessly to turn her family against me. All of that and she has pretended to not understand why I keep her at arms length. I use to talk to my husband about her behaviors and I was getting nowhere. The situation didn't change until I changed. That meant me biting my tongue, turning the other cheek when I didn't feel like it and extending grace when I felt like she didn't deserve it. I have become a master at ignoring her behaviors. I speak, I'm cordial and then I move on. Life is too short to allow ONE person to steal your joy. Quite frankly, your mother-in-law behaves the way she does because it puts the focus on her. The worse thing you can do to a person like her is ignore her behavior and proceed to live your best life. Host the get together, invite your mother-in-law and enjoy your family.

Can you please give me some more perspective on this? How is being unbothered a bad thing? If she has proven herself as one to act out, why isn't ignoring her existence a better alternative? I'm in a similar situation but I'm not married and it's impossible for me to give less of AF about his mom. I've determined my own actions (or lack thereof) off of previous behavior, so I don't care how she feels. If she doesn't like that I keep her on her side of the fence, AKA completely out of my life, then that's just her problem. If her son has a problem with it he can kick rocks too and I've made that crystal clear. When it comes to people who stir up messiness and drama its my way or the highway. There's no negotiation. There's no invitation extended. I wouldn't be canceling any Christmas plans either because nobody is going to dictate what I can and can't have in my own house. The most she can do is yap to those who will listen, but if I'm not listening to her anyway what does it matter to me?

 

[mrselle]

Can you please give me some more perspective on this? How is being unbothered a bad thing? If she has proven herself as one to act out, why isn't ignoring her existence a better alternative? I'm in a similar situation but I'm not married and it's impossible for me to give less of AF about his mom. I've determined my own actions (or lack thereof) off of previous behavior, so I don't care how she feels. If she doesn't like that I keep her on her side of the fence, AKA completely out of my life, then that's just her problem. If her son has a problem with it he can kick rocks too and I've made that crystal clear. When it comes to people who stir up messiness and drama its my way or the highway. There's no negotiation. There's no invitation extended. I wouldn't be canceling any Christmas plans either because nobody is going to dictate what I can and can't have in my own house. The most she can do is yap to those who will listen, but if I'm not listening to her anyway what does it matter to me?

I probably should have worded that part differently. Being unbothered isn't a bad thing at all. In other words ignoring the aggressor/trouble maker is the absolute best thing the OP can do. It will be bad for the mother-in-law because she will see that her bothersome tactics aren't getting her the attention she wants. This will frustrate her to no end and hopefully....eventually cause her to see that she is the one looking foolish and realize that she needs to change her ways.

I like your approach. It took me a long time to develop that mindset with my own MIL, but once I did there was more peace in my life. It's ridiculous to let one person steal your joy.

 

[Browndilocks]

Gotcha. I try to stay open to other perspectives. You just seem waaaayyy nicer than me lol.

OP - I think your husband's reasoning for wanting to invite his mom may have to do with subliminal validation he's seeking from her. There's something about boys and their mom. Maybe he still has hopefulness for a civil relationship with her... but I'm on your side.

 

[Foxglove]

It’s his mother. Regardless of what’s she’s done, he loves her and wants her there. One day he may be done, but that day has not come yet. And of course I don’t blame you one bit. Who would want that negative energy in their new home?

That said, I would host Christmas, let hubby invite her, and let him deal with any fall out.

The worse thing you can do to a person like her is ignore her behavior and proceed to live your best life.

Thissssss
Have your get together, let him know that he's on mom duty and if she acts a fool ignore her and let him deal with it. If anybody says anything "that's his fam *shrug*" She will only end up making herself look worse
I also agree with whoever said to set boundaries so she doesn't think she can just drop by because she lives 15 minutes away