WHEN HE DOES THIS, I FEEL SO UNEASY

[meek&quietspirit]

My husband came accross an article on a website regarding Christian men winning the war on lust during these times. He made a copy of it, placed it in an envelope and gave it to our Pastor. My DH felt pretty compfy doing this cause our Pastor had, for some reason, gravitated towards him.

Well, he never mentioned it or talked about it. Obviously, it had no impact on his behavior, even if he did read it.

And by the way, he now treats DH like he has the plague.

Some members have complained, but when they do, they are labelled as trouble makers or warned not to "touch The Lord's annointed." If we see that the Pastor is wrong, we are to just pray for him and not judge him.

 

[alexstin]

My husband came accross an article on a website regarding Christian men winning the war on lust during these times. He made a copy of it, placed it in an envelope and gave it to our Pastor. My DH felt pretty compfy doing this cause our Pastor had, for some reason, gravitated towards him.

Well, he never mentioned it or talked about it. Obviously, it had no impact on his behavior, even if he did read it.

And by the way, he now treats DH like he has the plague.:confused:

Some members have complained, but when they do, they are labelled as trouble makers or warned not to "touch The Lord's annointed."[/QUOTE]

Uh oh! Big red flag! Girl, y'all better pray. I'm telling you that's spiritual abuse! I call it like I see it. I've been there and done that. The people at my former church weree scared to voice there concerns with the Sr Pastor because that would result in being snubbed BIG TIME. He would call them out from the pulpit(but wouldn't say any names) and when they left the church they were talked about badly and the members were encouraged to shun them.

It's a very serious issue. It's not a healthy environment at all.

 

[Shimmie]

My husband came accross an article on a website regarding Christian men winning the war on lust during these times. He made a copy of it, placed it in an envelope and gave it to our Pastor. My DH felt pretty compfy doing this cause our Pastor had, for some reason, gravitated towards him.

Well, he never mentioned it or talked about it. Obviously, it had no impact on his behavior, even if he did read it.

And by the way, he now treats DH like he has the plague.:confused:

Some members have complained, but when they do, they are labelled as trouble makers or warned not to "touch The Lord's annointed."[/QUOTE]

Uh oh! Big red flag! Girl, y'all better pray. I'm telling you that's spiritual abuse! I call it like I see it. I've been there and done that.

The people at my former church weree scared to voice there concerns with the Sr Pastor because that would result in being snubbed BIG TIME. He would call them out from the pulpit(but wouldn't say any names) and when they left the church they were talked about badly and the members were encouraged to shun them.

It's a very serious issue. It's not a healthy environment at all.

This EXACT same thing happened in my 'first' church. I was there for 18 years. It is a Spirit of Control... an abuse of power and leadership. It's the 'Leader' expressing that no one can and no one is going to tell him he is wrong about anything.

The sad thing is, whenever the Truth is spoken to someone under satan's influence, he/she will not listen to reason; whether it be spoken in love, a gentle manner, or sternly. He needs to be 'sat' down and not allowed to lead the sheep astray. Nothing about what he's saying is edifying the Body of Christ.

My God...in our first church went from over 2500 members down to about 600 over a period of about 5-6 years. It was such a mess. Our Pastors divorced and kept it from the congregation. An affair that he had was all in the news and in the local paper.

But prior to all of this were the 'signs' along the way.... the 'talk'...the unwholesome talk about sex from the pulpit. The same as our OP's Pastor being unteachable, was our Pastor. He had grown big and just could not be told what to do.

This spirit has to be 'shaken' off of everyone who has been exposed to it. Fasting and prayer. I had to ask God to allow none of what those spirits were to be in operation in the lives of me and my children.

In Jesus' name the Blood of Jesus prevails over us all. Praise the name of Jesus forever and ever... Amen.

 

[alexstin]

This EXACT same thing happened in my 'first' church. I was there for 18 years. It is a Spirit of Control... an abuse of power and leadership. It's the 'Leader' expressing that no one can and no one is going to tell him he is wrong about anything.


The sad thing is, whenever the Truth is spoken to someone under satan's influence, he/she will not listen to reason; whether it be spoken in love, a gentle manner, or sternly. He needs to be 'sat' down and not allowed to lead the sheep astray. Nothing about what he's saying is edifying the Body of Christ.

My God...in our first church went from over 2500 members down to about 600 over a period of about 5-6 years. It was such a mess. Our Pastors divorced and kept it from the congregation. An affair that he had was all in the news and in the local paper.

But prior to all of this were the 'signs' along the way.... the 'talk'...the unwholesome talk about sex from the pulpit. The same as our OP's Pastor being unteachable, was our Pastor. He had grown big and just could not be told what to do.

This spirit has to be 'shaken' off of everyone who has been exposed to it. Fasting and prayer. I had to ask God to allow none of what those spirits were to be in operation in the lives of me and my children.

In Jesus' name the Blood of Jesus prevails over us all. Praise the name of Jesus forever and ever... Amen.

I completely agree! It's amazing how that spirit manifests in the same way from one part of the world to the next. I was appalled after we left our church and I started reading on spiritual abuse. I could just interject my former church in place of the names they were using in the books.

We had to take a long time off just to seek the Father and be delivered from the mindset and spirit that we had been under for so long.

 

[PaperClip]

ITA-- I think that Christian women also have a responsibillity to help our brothers in this way. We can dress attractively with modesty and wisdom.

Whoa! Red flag here!

Whatever happened to self-control on the brothers' part? And trust, I was raised right on how to dress modestly...but not to do so to "help" our brothers but to PROTECT myself.... not just from the brothers, but from the negative aspects of society.

I wrote a thesis about churchwomen and one of the main books I used is called If It Wasn't for the Women: Black Women's Experience and Womanist Culture in Church and Community written by Cheryl Townsend Gilkes. Having been raised COGIC (Church of God in Christ), it was interesting to read in this book the particular reasons for certain dress codes, e.g., black skirts, white blouse; dressing modestly, etc. Cheryl explained that during Jim Crow and the openly racist and sexist society back in the day, when women evangelists would travel across the nation to preach and teach, they were told to do so as a way for people of the world, esp. men, to know that they were women of the cloth, chaste women, if you will, and they would not be bothered.

So saying "help" the brothers implies to me that the men are weaker. The Lord chose the men to lead so I'm sure the Lord equipped them with the capacity to have self-control.

 

[alexstin]

I don't think it means they are weaker but they are visual. It's a whole lot harder for a brother in a bible study to keep his mind on the Father when he's surrounded by sisters with boobs and butts hanging out. Just as it would be a whole lot harder for a sister to keep her mind right if every time she gets around a brother he's whispering sweet nothings in her ear.

Brothers and sisters in Christ have a responsibility to protect each other. We are not an island to ourselves, we interact with the opposite sex all the time.


Note: That's not to say that we don't have personal responsibility, because we do have to keep our ownselves in check FIRST.

Whoa! Red flag here!

Whatever happened to self-control on the brothers' part? And trust, I was raised right on how to dress modestly...but not to do so to "help" our brothers but to PROTECT myself.... not just from the brothers, but from the negative aspects of society.

I wrote a thesis about churchwomen and one of the main books I used is called If It Wasn't for the Women: Black Women's Experience and Womanist Culture in Church and Community written by Cheryl Townsend Gilkes. Having been raised COGIC (Church of God in Christ), it was interesting to read in this book the particular reasons for certain dress codes, e.g., black skirts, white blouse; dressing modestly, etc. Cheryl explained that during Jim Crow and the openly racist and sexist society back in the day, when women evangelists would travel across the nation to preach and teach, they were told to do so as a way for people of the world, esp. men, to know that they were women of the cloth, chaste women, if you will, and they would not be bothered.

So saying "help" the brothers implies to me that the men are weaker. The Lord chose the men to lead so I'm sure the Lord equipped them with the capacity to have self-control.

 

[PaperClip]

I don't think it means they are weaker but they are visual. It's a whole lot harder for a brother in a bible study to keep his mind on the Father when he's surrounded by sisters with boobs and butts hanging out. Just as it would be a whole lot harder for a sister to keep her mind right if every time she gets around a brother he's whispering sweet nothings in her ear.

Brothers and sisters in Christ have a responsibility to protect each other.

I understand what you're saying...but true change/transformation/wholehearted practice doesn't "stick", if you will, until the individual embraces that thing for themselves. For example, a sister comes to church dressed "inappropriately". The church mothers can tell her all day long (with the right spirit) to dress more modestly. If the sister is sincere, she will obey, but maybe not fully understand..and she may even rebel and not come back to the church. It doesn't "stick" or have that heart transformation until the Holy Spirit has His way in her mind to recognize the inner beauty of modest dress...that it is pleasing to the Lord and so on.... I know that even after I do my "armpit" and "jump" (praise and worship!) checks on an outfit and I think it's ok, the Holy Spirit will check me if something is off that I may not even see up front...and no time has it been because a brother needed "helping" out with his issues. I'll even go as far to say that the "help" for the brothers might be a beneficial byproduct of my modest dress, but the mentality has to come from my mind to fully embrace it and obey it.

 

[alexstin]

I understand what you're saying...but true change/transformation/wholehearted practice doesn't "stick", if you will, until the individual embraces that thing for themselves. For example, a sister comes to church dressed "inappropriately". The church mothers can tell her all day long (with the right spirit) to dress more modestly. If the sister is sincere, she will obey, but maybe not fully understand..and she may even rebel and not come back to the church. It doesn't "stick" or have that heart transformation until the Holy Spirit has His way in her mind to recognize the inner beauty of modest dress...that it is pleasing to the Lord and so on.... I know that even after I do my "armpit" and "jump" (praise and worship!) checks on an outfit and I think it's ok, the Holy Spirit will check me if something is off that I may not even see up front...and no time has it been because a brother needed "helping" out with his issues. I'll even go as far to say that the "help" for the brothers might be a beneficial byproduct of my modest dress, but the mentality has to come from my mind to fully embrace it and obey it.

I agree that's why I said we have to check ourselves first.

 

[Southernbella.]

I understand what you're saying...but true change/transformation/wholehearted practice doesn't "stick", if you will, until the individual embraces that thing for themselves. For example, a sister comes to church dressed "inappropriately". The church mothers can tell her all day long (with the right spirit) to dress more modestly. If the sister is sincere, she will obey, but maybe not fully understand..and she may even rebel and not come back to the church. It doesn't "stick" or have that heart transformation until the Holy Spirit has His way in her mind to recognize the inner beauty of modest dress...that it is pleasing to the Lord and so on.... I know that even after I do my "armpit" and "jump" (praise and worship!) checks on an outfit and I think it's ok, the Holy Spirit will check me if something is off that I may not even see up front...and no time has it been because a brother needed "helping" out with his issues. I'll even go as far to say that the "help" for the brothers might be a beneficial byproduct of my modest dress, but the mentality has to come from my mind to fully embrace it and obey it.

ITA! Men have to be held accountable for their thought lives. Blame-shifting might help them get through the day, but it won't do a thing for their relationship with Christ.

 

[Shimmie]

I don't think it means they are weaker but they are visual. It's a whole lot harder for a brother in a bible study to keep his mind on the Father when he's surrounded by sisters with boobs and butts hanging out. Just as it would be a whole lot harder for a sister to keep her mind right if every time she gets around a brother he's whispering sweet nothings in her ear.

Brothers and sisters in Christ have a responsibility to protect each other. We are not an island to ourselves, we interact with the opposite sex all the time.

Note: That's not to say that we don't have personal responsibility, because we do

Exactly. We all know full well and see it everyday, the way women 'use' what they have to get attention; especially when there is a 'spirit' in the Church seeking which man can be tempted and fallen. Please, this spirit of seduction is 'fixed' in the Church...front row center. Waiting for the 'cue' to do what it does...seduce and conquer.

Ever notice how the word of God forewarns the MEN to be aware of the temptress....the woman, Proverbs 5 warns of 'the woman'.

Even the Song of Solomon speaks solely of how it's the woman's attractiveness that has this man captured. It was Deliah's beauty that entrapped Samson (the man was wrong and full of his flesh and his parents spoiled him rotten....Samson was a show-off) but he got trapped by Deliah...a woman using her beauty and form as her weapon.

Bathsheba...her beauty bathing that caught King David's full eyes and attention and held him captive to the point of murder to cover his sin.

Granted, God does not take it lightly about a man's behavior; over and over he is warned. And the Pastor mentioned in this post is totally without excuse. Totally!!

However, let's face it..... as women we hold the key to a man's captivity. Take a look at yourself in the mirror and figure it out. We use it all the time; especially when we 'want' something (both in and out of Christ Jesus).

For the Godly women, I uphold with love and warmth. But I see too much showing through the clothing of too many women in church and it just ain't right to do this. Men do look. The visual babies. We love them though. But even the infant baby boys ... look. Our precious Men!

 

[Shimmie]

I understand what you're saying...but true change/transformation/wholehearted practice doesn't "stick", if you will, until the individual embraces that thing for themselves. For example, a sister comes to church dressed "inappropriately". The church mothers can tell her all day long (with the right spirit) to dress more modestly. If the sister is sincere, she will obey, but maybe not fully understand..and she may even rebel and not come back to the church. It doesn't "stick" or have that heart transformation until the Holy Spirit has His way in her mind to recognize the inner beauty of modest dress...that it is pleasing to the Lord and so on.... I know that even after I do my "armpit" and "jump" (praise and worship!) checks on an outfit and I think it's ok, the Holy Spirit will check me if something is off that I may not even see up front...and no time has it been because a brother needed "helping" out with his issues. I'll even go as far to say that the "help" for the brothers might be a beneficial byproduct of my modest dress, but the mentality has to come from my mind to fully embrace it and obey it.

The 'mentality' is questionable...it's almost a cop-out as an excuse to continue with the immodest dressing. I'm not hearing it. Women know how to 'dress' for church. It doesn't take rocket science or a deep revelation to figure it out and to have the mentality to dress right.

Now Granted there may be a given hardship or situation where she is wearing all that she has at the time. But women still 'know' what they can and can't wear. Women do know how to dress for Church.

If I sound hard about it, it's about time that someone speaks up. Because I see too much mess that has really gone too far. And in the type of format we have in Church with the music and praise.... Uh-Uh

I see more booty poppin and top shelf bouncing than I care to be aware of in too MANY churches. It's worse than a carnal music video....and it's sad. Thank God for the Choir members in any church who wear robes to cover it all up. Not every body 'jumping' is praising God.

 

[PaperClip]

The 'mentality' is questionable...it's almost a cop-out as an excuse to continue with the immodest dressing. I'm not hearing it. Women know how to 'dress' for church. It doesn't take rocket science or a deep revelation to figure it out and to have the mentality to dress right.

Now Granted there may be a given hardship or situation where she is wearing all that she has at the time. But women still 'know' what they can and can't wear. Women do know how to dress for Church.

If I sound hard about it, it's about time that someone speaks up. Because I see too much mess that has really gone too far. And in the type of format we have in Church with the music and praise.... Uh-Uh

I see more booty poppin and top shelf bouncing than I care to be aware of in too MANY churches. It's worse than a carnal music video....and it's sad. Thank God for the Choir members in any church who wear robes to cover it all up. Not every body 'jumping' is praising God.

"Not every body 'jumping' is praising God." This made me laugh 'cause it's true! And they're so easy to spot!

I used to think women knew how to dress for church... I think most of them basically do, but there's a new generation out here who have NEVER been exposed to church-going.... One of my sister-friends and I had a conversation about this sometime ago. We joked about how even when we were in elementary school, it was rare to walk up on somebody and they not know anything about church, even if it was a different denomination. But these days, some of these girls have NO CLUE about going to church, much less dressing for church.

I look at the young girls around my church these days and it's really sad because they come to church in not just pants (could NEVER do this growing up) but jeans, and then tight sometimes, with the shirts and at times a little midriff showing.... There's a parent or guardian ALLOWING this, which means that the parent also has no clue or doesn't care.

Just look at the TV court shows... they're not dressing much better on those shows, either, which leads me to think that there's a deficiency in information about what's respectable for the house of the Lord.

 

[Southernbella.]

Whoa! Red flag here!

Whatever happened to self-control on the brothers' part? And trust, I was raised right on how to dress modestly...but not to do so to "help" our brothers but to PROTECT myself.... not just from the brothers, but from the negative aspects of society...

So saying "help" the brothers implies to me that the men are weaker. The Lord chose the men to lead so I'm sure the Lord equipped them with the capacity to have self-control.

But, sure enough, he starts talking bout how he and his wife were out this past weekend and saw some lady with a very tight teeshirt on. The shirt said too blessed to be stressed. He said he did what any "normal, herteosexual, man would do, he stared at her chest."

Then he goes on to say that while walking with the college president, he didn't want him to notice him checking out the young, pretty ladies with the mini-skirts on, so he just keeps looking straight ahead and talking with the president. (He won't scope other women with the president, but he will with his wife)?erplexed

Christian women can (and should) dress modestly all day long in the church, but Christian men still need to learn self-control because, like this pastor, they all have to go out into the world every day. Who are they going to blame for their lusting then?

Furthermore, there is new research that suggests that the old adage (or copout, if you will) that men are more visual is NOT true.

 

[Shimmie]

"Not every body 'jumping' is praising God." This made me laugh 'cause it's true! And they're so easy to spot!

I used to think women knew how to dress for church... I think most of them basically do, but there's a new generation out here who have NEVER been exposed to church-going.... One of my sister-friends and I had a conversation about this sometime ago. We joked about how even when we were in elementary school, it was rare to walk up on somebody and they not know anything about church, even if it was a different denomination. But these days, some of these girls have NO CLUE about going to church, much less dressing for church.

I look at the young girls around my church these days and it's really sad because they come to church in not just pants (could NEVER do this growing up) but jeans, and then tight sometimes, with the shirts and at times a little midriff showing.... There's a parent or guardian ALLOWING this, which means that the parent also has no clue or doesn't care.

Just look at the TV court shows... they're not dressing much better on those shows, either, which leads me to think that there's a deficiency in information about what's respectable for the house of the Lord.

Right back at you. Let me tell you, I NEVER saw a bouncing chest until I was in Church. I just didn't. Even in our African Dance Troupe where there is PLENTY of jumping, twisting and high energy movement, we had on proper Dance gear underneath (both bra/pants), it was mandatory. It was about the Dance, not body parts appearing to jump out of our costumes. It was a distraction to the audience and the Dance story itsself. Hence some of the women in the Church kinda scared me.

Know what? I do not jump in Church. I won't Not even in my minimizer bra, I just won't do anything to draw attention to myself. I truly believe it's seeing the women who do bounce makes me very self-conscious. I'll clap, shout, Praise God with my voice, and do a slight dance movement...but that's it. I'm very low key. You'd never know it was me, as 'loud' as I am here on this forum. I look so sweet and innocent...

And so right you are about the parent/guardians who do not seem to focus or care about what their children wear.

As for court shows... You are so right. Some of them need to fix their weaves and and NOT wear tank tops. And how do you tell the males from the females nowadays on these shows? Even Judge Mathis was confused

 

[PaperClip]

Right back at you. Let me tell you, I NEVER saw a bouncing chest until I was in Church. I just didn't. Even in our African Dance Troupe where there is PLENTY of jumping, twisting and high energy movement, we had on proper Dance gear underneath (both bra/pants), it was mandatory. It was about the Dance, not body parts appearing to jump out of our costumes. It was a distraction to the audience and the Dance story itsself. Hence some of the women in the Church kinda scared me.

Know what? I do not jump in Church. I won't Not even in my minimizer bra, I just won't do anything to draw attention to myself. I truly believe it's seeing the women who do bounce makes me very self-conscious. I'll clap, shout, Praise God with my voice, and do a slight dance movement...but that's it. I'm very low key. You'd never know it was me, as 'loud' as I am here on this forum. I look so sweet and innocent...

And so right you are about the parent/guardians who do not seem to focus or care about what their children wear.

As for court shows... You are so right. Some of them need to fix their weaves and and NOT wear tank tops. And how do you tell the males from the females nowadays on these shows? Even Judge Mathis was confused

And let me also state for the record that can directly relate to being big-chested (and therefore, jumping) in church until my breast reduction five years ago.... That's why I never played with the "holy hug" because... (sigh)...well, ya know.

 

[meek&quietspirit]

And let me also state for the record that can directly relate to being big-chested (and therefore, jumping) in church until my breast reduction five years ago.... That's why I never played with the "holy hug" because... (sigh)...well, ya know.

I can't thank everyone enough for your comments.

There are so many things that go on in some of our church's that do need to be addressed. Sometimes, it seems as if the ways of this world are beginning to take over.

Sweetheart, don't EEEeeeeven get me started about the "holy hug."
My DH and I have agreed that there can be no frontal hugging and kissing with the oppisite sex unless it's family. We've got one sister who will hug the men, but shake the women's hands...

Thank God for the Christian Forum where I can let it out and get some Biblical help and guidance. Cause I've been holding in so much for so long.

 

[Shimmie]

And let me also state for the record that can directly relate to being big-chested (and therefore, jumping) in church until my breast reduction five years ago.... That's why I never played with the "holy hug" because... (sigh)...well, ya know.

Oh No.... Not You too?!!!?? I thought I had issues and needed deliverance. I won't hug unless I really 'know' the person. Oh Lawdddy... It twan't just me...

 

[alexstin]

Christian women can (and should) dress modestly all day long in the church, but Christian men still need to learn self-control because, like this pastor, they all have to go out into the world every day. Who are they going to blame for their lusting then?

Furthermore, there is new research that suggests that the old adage (or copout, if you will) that men are more visual is NOT true.

I'd be interested in reading that though I don't believe all men use that as a cop out. Where can I find it?

 

[Southernbella.]

I'd be interested in reading that though I don't believe all men use that as a cop out. Where can I find it?

Sure!
http://mednews.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/7319.html

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn10213-women-become-sexually-aroused-as-quickly-as-men.html

I didn't mean to imply that all men use it as a copout, but I do feel that it's used by some men and women to justify some behaviors that have more to do with social conditioning than biology. That's a different thread, though!

 

[alexstin]

Gotcha!I agree with the way you restated that.

I look at this way. Both men and women may be turned on by erotic images BUT men are the ones that seek out those images in magazines and on the internet more so than women. Playgirl is not nearly as popular as Playboy.

They are also more likely to ask their wives to "model" bedroom attire.

 

[StrawberryQueen]

Christian women can (and should) dress modestly all day long in the church, but Christian men still need to learn self-control because, like this pastor, they all have to go out into the world every day. Who are they going to blame for their lusting then?

Furthermore, there is new research that suggests that the old adage (or copout, if you will) that men are more visual is NOT true.

I agree you 100%. Christian women do need to dress modestly. But, I can see why some churches relax their dress codes, in order to make folsk feel comfortable. A lot of people who come to church are sitting up inthere for the 1st time ever, and sometimes don't know or have the good sense to "dress accordingly." Should they be turned out-no.

But I think once folks become stronger in their Christian walk, they become more aware of what is and what is not appropriate. I think people need to be patient with them and not judge them, because honestly, all it's going to do is drive them away and give them a negative impression of what the Church and a "Christian" is supposed to be. We are not all imbued with the same knowledge, be it worldly or Biblically. I'm not disagreeing with you here BTW!

And this whole this "men are visual," stuff is crap. It may be true to a degree but folks like to use it as an excuse for inappropriate behavior and lack of self control. Just like "boys will be boys." Men need to be just as sexually responsible and "pure" as the women do.

The 'mentality' is questionable...it's almost a cop-out as an excuse to continue with the immodest dressing. I'm not hearing it. Women know how to 'dress' for church. It doesn't take rocket science or a deep revelation to figure it out and to have the mentality to dress right.

Now Granted there may be a given hardship or situation where she is wearing all that she has at the time. But women still 'know' what they can and can't wear. Women do know how to dress for Church.

If I sound hard about it, it's about time that someone speaks up. Because I see too much mess that has really gone too far. And in the type of format we have in Church with the music and praise.... Uh-Uh

I see more booty poppin and top shelf bouncing than I care to be aware of in too MANY churches. It's worse than a carnal music video....and it's sad. Thank God for the Choir members in any church who wear robes to cover it all up. Not every body 'jumping' is praising God.

 

[Southernbella.]

Gotcha!I agree with the way you restated that.

I look at this way. Both men and women may be turned on by erotic images BUT men are the ones that seek out those images in magazines and on the internet more so than women. Playgirl is not nearly as popular as Playboy.

They are also more likely to ask their wives to "model" bedroom attire.

@ bedroom attire. Yeah, I can't see asking my dh to dress up in anything.

Unfortunately, though, the number of women who view porn has grown in large numbers due to the internet. I believe this is where social conditioning comes in. Since they can now do it in private, women are seeking visual stimuli in the same way men do.

Here's an article on that:
http://www.trueu.org/dorms/womenshall/A000000490.cfm

 

[alexstin]

@ bedroom attire. Yeah, I can't see asking my dh to dress up in anything.
Unfortunately, though, the number of women who view porn has grown in large numbers due to the internet. I believe this is where social conditioning comes in. Since they can now do it in private, women are seeking visual stimuli in the same way men do.

Here's an article on that:
http://www.trueu.org/dorms/womenshall/A000000490.cfm

Thanks for the link and so true about the bold.

 

[StrawberryQueen]

Gotcha!I agree with the way you restated that.

I look at this way. Both men and women may be turned on by erotic images BUT men are the ones that seek out those images in magazines and on the internet more so than women. Playgirl is not nearly as popular as Playboy.

They are also more likely to ask their wives to "model" bedroom attire.

I do agree with that, but I think the main reason there is not a huge avenue for women to have the same viewing pleasures as men (with regard to magazines, porn, etc) is that women are wired differently and appreciate different things visually.

A man can get turned on by seeing a young looking girl wearing a lb of makeup and a schoolgirl uniform. Or seeing a women naked and bent over a chair. It's all good for them.

A women doesn't find the same things sexy regarding men. OTHER (homosexual) men do. Most women would be turned off by seeing a man naked and bent over a chair. And a boy-ish looking man wearing a salior suit...uhhhh, excuse me? Most people who market adult products haven't realized this yet, which is why women have been "left out" of the loop. A man with a shirt off, or a man doing manual labor (clothed) is more more attractive to (most) women.

Sorry for getting so off topic! I just read an article about this.

 

[kbragg]

Most women would be turned off by seeing a man naked and bent over a chair. And a boy-ish looking man wearing a salior suit...uhhhh, excuse me?

Why you tryna make us all sick!?!?!

I don't think women are equally as visual as men. I mean, what would turn a woman on more? Seeing a man topless mowing a lawn, or that same man with his shirt on singing her a LOVE song, or telling her she's beautiful!?!?! Hello!Why ya'll think people like Genuiwine, Justin Timberlake, Jon b, groups like Silk, Jagged Edge (Let's Get Married OOH WEE!) etc are so popular? Let me stop, I'm getting too carnal!

Seriously, that's how the playas get the women. By telling her she's beautiful, sexy, the only woman he has eyes for (liar) etc. Ok back on topic!

 

[alexstin]

Why you tryna make us all sick!?!?!

I don't think women are equally as visual as men. I mean, what would turn a woman on more? Seeing a man topless mowing a lawn, or that same man with his shirt on singing her a LOVE song, or telling her she's beautiful!?!?! Hello!Why ya'll think people like Genuiwine, Justin Timberlake, Jon b, groups like Silk, Jagged Edge (Let's Get Married OOH WEE!) etc are so popular? Let me stop, I'm getting too carnal!

Seriously, that's how the playas get the women. By telling her she's beautiful, sexy, the only woman he has eyes for (liar) etc. Ok back on topic!

See that's what I think. Not that she wouldn't mind the topless guy but I think she would prefer the other.

 

[alexstin]

I do agree with that, but I think the main reason there is not a huge avenue for women to have the same viewing pleasures as men (with regard to magazines, porn, etc) is that women are wired differently and appreciate different things visually.

A man can get turned on by seeing a young looking girl wearing a lb of makeup and a schoolgirl uniform. Or seeing a women naked and bent over a chair. It's all good for them.

A women doesn't find the same things sexy regarding men. OTHER (homosexual) men do. Most women would be turned off by seeing a man naked and bent over a chair. And a boy-ish looking man wearing a salior suit...uhhhh, excuse me? Most people who market adult products haven't realized this yet, which is why women have been "left out" of the loop. A man with a shirt off, or a man doing manual labor (clothed) is more more attractive to (most) women.

Sorry for getting so off topic! I just read an article about this.

Yeah, NOT SEXY!!!!

 

[PaperClip]

Why you tryna make us all sick!?!?!

I don't think women are equally as visual as men. I mean, what would turn a woman on more? Seeing a man topless mowing a lawn, or that same man with his shirt on singing her a LOVE song, or telling her she's beautiful!?!?! Hello!Why ya'll think people like Genuiwine, Justin Timberlake, Jon b, groups like Silk, Jagged Edge (Let's Get Married OOH WEE!) etc are so popular? Let me stop, I'm getting too carnal!

Seriously, that's how the playas get the women. By telling her she's beautiful, sexy, the only woman he has eyes for (liar) etc. Ok back on topic!

Um.... I wouldn't mind the topless buff man (husband) mowing the lawn....

I appreciate a hard-working man...who can bring home the bacon, fry it up, and I'll set the table for him! But when it comes to singing and talking all sexy and whatnot, what works for me is when a brother can break down the stock market, the Iraq war, or international economy and that's more sexy to me than a "ooo wee" ANYDAY!

 

[live2bgr8]

Whoa! Red flag here!

Whatever happened to self-control on the brothers' part? And trust, I was raised right on how to dress modestly...but not to do so to "help" our brothers but to PROTECT myself.... not just from the brothers, but from the negative aspects of society.

I wrote a thesis about churchwomen and one of the main books I used is called If It Wasn't for the Women: Black Women's Experience and Womanist Culture in Church and Community written by Cheryl Townsend Gilkes. Having been raised COGIC (Church of God in Christ), it was interesting to read in this book the particular reasons for certain dress codes, e.g., black skirts, white blouse; dressing modestly, etc. Cheryl explained that during Jim Crow and the openly racist and sexist society back in the day, when women evangelists would travel across the nation to preach and teach, they were told to do so as a way for people of the world, esp. men, to know that they were women of the cloth, chaste women, if you will, and they would not be bothered.

So saying "help" the brothers implies to me that the men are weaker. The Lord chose the men to lead so I'm sure the Lord equipped them with the capacity to have self-control.

I agree. Men have a responsibillity, too. For sure. Some men would be turned on by an ear... or a nose... But there are very few men on this forum so I was speaking to the women here. As women in Christ we do have a responsibillity to dress modestly.

 

[Afrolinda]

For me the problem is that we put our "Pastors" on this high pestal. "He shouldn't do this, he shouldn't be doing that" that we forget that they are males first and foremost. No he shouldn't be looking at ladies chest be he married for 36 years or 3 months. However, that he can get up in front of the church and say yes I did it, I am human I have repented let's move on. He a way it shows what we don't want to see: a human pastor.

I can say all of that because my husband got up yesterday and in his sermon to make a point stated that " my wife and I do not have a pefect marriage, we are not there yet, there are times when we fuss and fight and there were times that I cussed, however, I know that is wrong and we are getting better because I realized that I am not being an example to our son or the neighbors". Was he right to say that yes he was, again it proved that yes Pastors are human.

I agree with you, he is just a man. If you guys only knew what some pastors and priesters do here in Belgium you guys would freak out, I think people should stop treating them as if they were angels, they are just human.