WHEN HE DOES THIS, I FEEL SO UNEASY

[meek&quietspirit]

Yesterday, our Pastor was preaching an excellent sermon.

But, sure enough, he starts talking bout how he and his wife were out this past weekend and saw some lady with a very tight teeshirt on. The shirt said too blessed to be stressed. He said he did what any "normal, herteosexual, man would do, he stared at her chest."

Then he goes on to say that while walking with the college president, he didn't want him to notice him checking out the young, pretty ladies with the mini-skirts on, so he just keeps looking straight ahead and talking with the president. (He won't scope other women with the president, but he will with his wife)?erplexed

I know that we all have issues and deal with secret sins, but, should a pastor who has preached for 40 years and been married for 36 years still react in this manner?

I can't talk to anyone at the church about this cause most of them laugh when he says such things, including his wife!

I've written about this before.

Am I being too touchy???

 

[dlewis]

I don't think he should. And he's telling other men in the church that it's ok to do this. Why is this coming up in a sermon anyway?

 

[PaperClip]

I kinda laughed as I read the story as well, but it's not a jokey laugh, but more of a nervous laugh, which is probably what many of your fellow church members are doing as well....

Do you think the uneasiness you feel comes from him sharing his story at all or the point that he actually feels/thinks the way he did?

I think it's clear that most of us understand that people are people (men are men) and there's a distinction between "notice" and "stare"....

Maybe there's not much to say at all but just to pray for your pastor in general for him, as we all are supposed to do so that they continue to do well in their role as pastor/leader and that they are not led into unhealthy situations.

 

[GodsPromises]

For me the problem is that we put our "Pastors" on this high pestal. "He shouldn't do this, he shouldn't be doing that" that we forget that they are males first and foremost. No he shouldn't be looking at ladies chest be he married for 36 years or 3 months. However, that he can get up in front of the church and say yes I did it, I am human I have repented let's move on. He a way it shows what we don't want to see: a human pastor.

I can say all of that because my husband got up yesterday and in his sermon to make a point stated that " my wife and I do not have a pefect marriage, we are not there yet, there are times when we fuss and fight and there were times that I cussed, however, I know that is wrong and we are getting better because I realized that I am not being an example to our son or the neighbors". Was he right to say that yes he was, again it proved that yes Pastors are human.

 

[alexstin]

He doesn't sound remorseful at all. From the way it was posted it seems like his attitude is,"It's what men do." Was he remorseful, OP?

Both my DH an I notice people of the opposite sex who are attractive....... but to stare or oogle? That ain't going to happen! It's disrepectful to your spouse and the person you are oogling.

I would feel VERY awkward approaching him for anything if I was in the congregation. Who's to say he's not checking me out.erplexed

For me the problem is that we put our "Pastors" on this high pestal. "He shouldn't do this, he shouldn't be doing that" that we forget that they are males first and foremost. No he shouldn't be looking at ladies chest be he married for 36 years or 3 months. However, that he can get up in front of the church and say yes I did it, I am human I have repented let's move on. He a way it shows what we don't want to see: a human pastor.
I can say all of that because my husband got up yesterday and in his sermon to make a point stated that " my wife and I do not have a pefect marriage, we are not there yet, there are times when we fuss and fight and there were times that I cussed, however, I know that is wrong and we are getting better because I realized that I am not being an example to our son or the neighbors". Was he right to say that yes he was, again it proved that yes Pastors are human.

 

[GodsPromises]

I agree if he is up there just saying "yeah I did it and I will do it again then he is died wron. I am giving him the belief of the doubt that he is saying its wrong, I know that's it wrong but I am confession that I have done it.

He doesn't sound remorseful at all. From the way it was posted it seems like his attitude is,"It's what men do." Was he remorseful, OP?

Both my DH an I notice people of the opposite sex who are attractive....... but to stare or oogle? That ain't going to happen! It's disrepectful to your spouse and the person you are oogling.

I would feel VERY awkward approaching him for anything if I was in the congregation. Who's to say he's not checking me out.erplexed

 

[Shimmie]

He's wrong! And he needs to watch it! For he is not presenting himself as a man who respects his call a a minister or his wife. He is also giving the impression that it is OKAY to do this when it is NOT okay.

Be a Man...a Godly Man. Just because you have a tendency to 'sin' doesn't mean you have a right to do so. Yes, men are visual, but they are taught to not only have restraint, but to have their eyes on Jesus and not another woman's breast. For God's sake... Get Real! It's not a game here!

He's publicly 'lusting'. Joseph had sense to run from Potipher's wife...so what's his problem? 'Sit' until you have it together...then minister to others. I know too many Pastors who have done this; there was a 'wave' of sexual ministry going on in the 90's. On one hand 'sex' was being brought up in the church for the purpose of putting 'sex' in its right perspective with husbands and wives.

However, too many men of God got carried away and started using too many graphics and calling body parts by the street names (the 'T' word for a woman's breasts; the 'A' word and one Pastor was even using the 'P' word) all the while trying to make it appear there was a point to it. Many members 'fell' away.

Divorces within the church went to record numbers during 1995-2001 and it was all because of the lack of respect and order in the house of God. Too many liberties were being taken and the carnal approach to life and marriage was completely miscontrued beyond repair. There were Pastors having affairs with OTHER Pastor's wives. It was just too much carnality being allowed in ministry. And it lead to much devastation and heartache. I WAS THERE and SAW it All.

Big name Pastors marriages were falling like dead apples from a tree... I can name them for days. On yes I can! 25 years in the ministry, I got to know quite a few men and women of God in and out of high profile. I've seen them come and go. You see, as soon as a man/woman of God speaks of his/her weakness and plays it off as 'Okay'....the enemy comes in big time with more than the temptation, but the man/woman of God has already set themselves up for failure. They've given themselves over into the enemy's hand.

Bottomline, the behavior of OP's Pastor is just his own admission that he is thinking about sinning. He is. He's admitted it. It's not a joke and the members who laugh are fearful of confronting him. He's not God. He's wrong and he is misleading the sheep. He needs prayer and even more he needs counseling from his leadship head ... a seasoned Mentor. I've seen and heard too many like him and the results are not healthy.

 

[TrulyBlessed]

This reminds me of Rev. Leon Lonnie Love from "Martin".

 

[meek&quietspirit]

Thank you all for your replies.

My only concern is that he makes comments like these almost every Sunday, even during Bible Class. It's one thing to struggle, it's another thing to joke about it and mention it just about weekly, (with a blatant attitude).

Don't get me wrong. I know my DH will look @ a pretty woman. But, looking is one thing, staring is completely something else. Let's just say that I may not be so meek&quiet if he displayed such behavior in front of me. As someone mentioned earlier, it's just a matter of respect.

Why do I stay? Cause he is a really gifted teacher and I have learned a lot from him explaining the Bible. Also, I'm concerned that if I go somewhere else, that the pastor could suffer from this sin or many more.

Anyway, about 10 years ago, he got involved with a single woman in our congregation. Because of the sensitive nature of the situation, I won't go into detail, but it was quite heartbreaking and embarrassing.

So, continue to pray for me and offer your advice to me as you "speak the truth in love."

.

 

[alexstin]

You have to make your own decision but I would really encourage you not to settle. Just because you're learning something isn't a reason to stay.

From experience I know that may times believers put up with things that their pastor does that they would be horrified if their spouse or child did. He(the pastor) keeps doing it because he is not held accountable.

DH and I left the church we were apart of for 10 years when we found out our pastor talked it but didn't walk it. Not only did we leave the church but DH was one of the pastors on staff. We knew it would cause an uproar but standing for truth is so much more important.

I encourage you to consult the Lord in prayer and in studying His word too see His will for you.

 

[Shimmie]

Thank you all for your replies.

My only concern is that he makes comments like these almost every Sunday, even during Bible Class. It's one thing to struggle, it's another thing to joke about it and mention it just about weekly, (with a blatant attitude).

Don't get me wrong. I know my DH will look @ a pretty woman. But, looking is one thing, staring is completely something else. Let's just say that I may not be so meek&quiet if he displayed such behavior in front of me. As someone mentioned earlier, it's just a matter of respect.

Why do I stay? Cause he is a really gifted teacher and I have learned a lot from him explaining the Bible. Also, I'm concerned that if I go somewhere else, that the pastor could suffer from this sin or many more.

Anyway, about 10 years ago, he got involved with a single woman in our congregation. Because of the sensitive nature of the situation, I won't go into detail, but it was quite heartbreaking and embarrassing.

So, continue to pray for me and offer your advice to me as you "speak the truth in love."

.

The real question, is do you want this message to find its home in your husband's spirit. Our Pastors are also our spiritual fathers, and what they allow, they teach. The enemy uses this as a way to influence a person's actions/decisions when tempted.

TV, the Movies, Just plain TV commercials are bad enough with their influences, but when it comes from a Leader as a joke or presented as okay, it's more serious. For 'children do follow their parents; even when it's something wrong. If Dad does it, why not? Just like the word of God, this is the seed that has been is planted and it's being watered. The flesh always wars agains the spirit...always.

Here's the thing. Someone had better speak up and shut him up. He's not so high that he cannot be brought down. When a brother is in sin, he must be told as such. This Pastor is in deep sin. And he's sending signals out to the enemy to bring it on. Don't think for one moment there will not be a woman in the congregation ready and willing to wear a tight T Shirt....

Pleeeese. I've seen it all.

 

[dlewis]

The bottom line is, if you feel uneasy about this, holyspirit who lives in you is telling you it's wrong.

 

[Browndilocks]

The real question, is do you want this message to find its home in your husband's spirit. Our Pastors are also our spiritual fathers, and what they allow, they teach. The enemy uses this as a way to influence a person's actions/decisions when tempted.

I agree with this 100%! This is not the first time you've expressed concern about this. Spirits travel and often trickle down from the pastor to the men that sit under him. I'd personally pray for him but begin to look for another church too. The last thing you want is an unclean spirit like that in your own home.

Pastors should not be worshipped, but should definitely be put on a pedastal. They are in a place of leadership and spitirual guidance for many. People who sit under their teachings are to follow the bible, but are still influenced by these pastors. So it really pisses me off when pastors want to play the "I am only human" card, and use it as an excuse to justify their wrongs. Yes - you are only human already. But please come up with something better to say. They are humans... who are (supposedly; and when done right) divinely called to be a messenger for the Word, and with that comes a certain level of responsibility.

One of the priviliges of being a pastor entails being treated "special". Special parking space, special seat during service, special recognition, etc., and rightfully so. Yet I have never seen a pastor reject being treated this way because they are "only human". But as soon as they make a questionable mistake, they pull the "I am only Human Card". It's sickening.

Just say something else. Say "The Lord is still working on me in certain areas" or "Living Holy is a constant cleansing process". Not "I'm only human", because then it seems that a pastor can use the privileges of his title for the good things but conveniently declassify himself as simply human whenever he doesn't want to take the full responsibility of that title. Pastors indeed make human mistakes and need spiritual cleansing like anyone else. Yet they are definitely accountable for more that what a "regular" churchgoer is, and because of that, should make even more of an effort to seek the Lord and behave accordingly - as an example to his congregation.

 

[Mocha5]

The real question, is do you want this message to find its home in your husband's spirit.

I wholeheartedly agree! Your pastor is planting a seed in every man in his congregation. Most of seeds may be good but Satan looks to nurish the bad ones. And just like a baby, the longer it is nurished, the bigger it will grow. Until eventually it has to be birthed (meaning that they will begin to resort to the same behavior). Like DLewis said, the Holy Spirit has already begun to speak to you about this matter. The real question is what are you going to do? By the way, have you had this conversation with your husband? If not, that may be a good starting point.

 

[meek&quietspirit]

DH gets very upset when this type of talking goes on. He sometimes feels that it creates tention between us. But, he's not doing anything wrong.

My DH and I will pray to see if The Lord wants us to leave and if He does, where He would want us to go.

 

[Mocha5]

DH gets very upset when this type of talking goes on. He sometimes feels that it creates tention between us. But, he's not doing anything wrong.

My DH and I will pray to see if The Lord wants us to leave and if He does, where He would want us to go.

That's the best thing to do. Praying for wisdom for you and your DH.

 

[He_Leads_I_follow]

Greetings Sisters

I'm new to the site and was glad to find a Christian forum. It's good to know I can get hair advice without the vulgarity .

I'm actually replying to the "Meek" sister. When will the church be sick of the perversion?! When will "she" relaize it just takes "a little leaven"?! Ugh! I'm so sick of pastors joking about sin to make everyone comfortable. If you leave church never feeling challenged about the way you live your life, THEN YOU'RE IN THE WRONG CHURCH!

Christ didn't appease sin, he challenged it. He challenged it in the lives of the disiples and the haughty church leaders. I pray that your precious pastor would examine himself. And that he would stop abusing his wife in this way. Yes, it's abuse . Just because she laughs doesn't mean she thinks it's funny. Sometimes it's easier to join in the laughter so you won't be laughed at!

We're living in a sensitive time right now. It's time out for nonsense. He can not afford to use the pulpit for foolish talk. He has the ears of undisciplined men who need to know that they are free in Christ Jesus! YES FREE FROM THE BONDAGE OF SIN! Yes, they need to know they no longer have to give in to every whim of the flesh. There is no time for gray areas. God is "black or white" hot or cold. He's clear about His standard.

Listen, make no excuses for error because God sure doesn't! Oh an in regards of you leaving the church? Just remember "like preist, like people". Try EVERY spirit

P.S. "Shimmie" your comments were quite profound! "Meek" you have some pretty sound counsel on this site. Bless you

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I can't talk to anyone at the church about this cause most of them laugh when he says such things, including his wife!

I've written about this before.

Am I being too touchy???

Not at all. I had a similar experience at a church I visited and felt really uncomfortable with it so I took myself out of the situation.

 

[kbragg]

Sounds like he needs to get saved.erplexed Yes, I said it! Just because he preaches good, don't mean he's saved. He has no place behind a pulpit:

Matthew 7:

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 12:


33Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
34O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

1 Timothy 3


1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; (lust is coveting)
4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Titus 1:


5For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

I would take the issue to the elders of the church, and if they do nothing, take it to whomever is above him. I'm hesistant to tell you leave, because God may be impressing upon your heart to bring this issue to light because no one else will, so that brother can get saved.

Bless you my master cleanse sistah!

 

[Southernbella.]

When will "she" relaize it just takes "a little leaven"?!

This is so true. I believe this is how sin festers inside the church. I agree with the others that you have to ask yourself if you're willing to ignore what your spirit is telling you. I did this for years in my old church and I regret it.

 

[MrsHouston]

His attitude will cause a lot of people to stumble too. Very sad

I'm wondering if his wife is "really" ok with this.

 

[Shimmie]

His attitude will cause a lot of people to stumble too. Very sad

I'm wondering if his wife is "really" ok with this.

She's not. I can clearly without a doubt tell you that she's not. What woman would be; especially the 'First Lady'? I can only imagine that she feels no different than Hillary Clinton did at the time of her shame.

Who wants a husband who stands before an audience and continues to announce, his wife is not enough for him? That hurts. He's literally putting her down and he is not being obedient to God's word in loving his wife; treating her as the tender kind, forsaking all others and cleaving unto her (lusting at another woman's breast and then brag about it as a joke, is forsaking his wife. God's word says tht husbands are to let his wife's breast satisfy him at all times...that's HER breasts, not some other woman's) satisfy him...all the time.

What wife can take this as a joke. It's painful for any woman; especially one in the word of God for we are taught differently.

Some things are just not right...and there's no way to laugh one's way out of it. I know too many men of God who went this way and still have not found their way back. And it's sad. I feel sad for everyone; even us for again 'we' the body of Christ have another 'brother' to pull up in prayer before he falls. And what makes it sad is that it is so unnecessary. He knows better.

 

[firecracker]

I guess you could file that under the TMI fo da chuch house rule because pastor is definitely a man.
You said "when he does this" as if he shares these type of lustful personal thoughts in the pulpit often

OK ETA after reading the initial/OP your pastor is making light and glossing over his heathenesque ways. You have a choice to make because your spirit is speaking to you.

 

[cocoberry10]

He doesn't sound remorseful at all. From the way it was posted it seems like his attitude is,"It's what men do." Was he remorseful, OP?

Both my DH an I notice people of the opposite sex who are attractive....... but to stare or oogle? That ain't going to happen! It's disrepectful to your spouse and the person you are oogling.

I would feel VERY awkward approaching him for anything if I was in the congregation. Who's to say he's not checking me out.erplexed

I totally agree with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If beautiful women are his "weakness," then stating that during a sermon would be fine. However, it's the way he says it that's a problem "I did what any normal, heterosexual man would do."

That's becoming my problem with the church. I've actually prayed about this, because at times, Christianity feels sexist. And of course, if Christianity feels sexist, than we often start to attribute those same qualities to God, our Heavenly Father. But the reality is that "His ways are higher than ours."

For example, one of my issues with the church is that I feel they put greater pressure on the woman to make sure that she and her boyfriend don't have premarital sex, when the responsibility is on both parties. I feel like a lot of churches say things like "don't dress provocatively," "don't entice him." "don't let him come into your home unsupervised." Not that these things are wrong, but where's the responsibility on the man? Where's the "don't try to go into her apartment," "don't try to get physical with her." I'm sorry, but in my experience and most women I know, it's the guy that wants to (read: tries to) get physical first (I know we are in 2007, but even with my Christian and non-Christian friends, most of the men they date make the first move towards a sexual relationship).

I think the church often lets men off the hook and puts too much of the responsibility on women. When I was in church one Sunday, the pastor said, "you know, men weren't made to be monogamous. I mean it's really not natural." Well, women weren't made that way either. We all have needs and we all have desires, and I'm personally tired of people believing that it's easier for women to "behave" than men. If it was soooooooooooooooooo easy for women to behave, Proverbs wouldn't warn men to watch out for the seductress. Obviously, women aren't always sooooooooo monogamous either.

Sorry, I just had to vent!

And lastly, they always act like women are trying to get men to ogle them. I hate when I feel men staring at my breasts (I am 5'2, 98-100 lbs and wear a D/DD cup, so you can imagine the ogling). Obviously, no matter what I do, my "cups runneth over" . I feel so uncomfortable when I'm speaking with a man and I can feel his eyes moving up and down my body, especially when it's in church. And some of the most despicable staring has come from "men of Jesus." What would Jesus say to these men????????

 

[Shimmie]

Greetings Sisters

I'm new to the site and was glad to find a Christian forum. It's good to know I can get hair advice without the vulgarity .

I'm actually replying to the "Meek" sister. When will the church be sick of the perversion?! When will "she" relaize it just takes "a little leaven"?! Ugh! I'm so sick of pastors joking about sin to make everyone comfortable. If you leave church never feeling challenged about the way you live your life, THEN YOU'RE IN THE WRONG CHURCH!

Christ didn't appease sin, he challenged it. He challenged it in the lives of the disiples and the haughty church leaders. I pray that your precious pastor would examine himself. And that he would stop abusing his wife in this way. Yes, it's abuse . Just because she laughs doesn't mean she thinks it's funny. Sometimes it's easier to join in the laughter so you won't be laughed at!

We're living in a sensitive time right now. It's time out for nonsense. He can not afford to use the pulpit for foolish talk. He has the ears of undisciplined men who need to know that they are free in Christ Jesus! YES FREE FROM THE BONDAGE OF SIN! Yes, they need to know they no longer have to give in to every whim of the flesh. There is no time for gray areas. God is "black or white" hot or cold. He's clear about His standard.

Listen, make no excuses for error because God sure doesn't! Oh an in regards of you leaving the church? Just remember "like preist, like people". Try EVERY spirit

P.S. "Shimmie" your comments were quite profound! "Meek" you have some pretty sound counsel on this site. Bless you

Yours as well. This is a very sad situation. It's not a game.

 

[kbragg]

When I was in church one Sunday, the pastor said, "you know, men weren't made to be monogamous. I mean it's really not natural."

Ooooh, that's a LIE from the PIT OF HELL! Ask your Pastor if that's so, why GOD made Adam and EVE, NOT ADAM, EVE, SARAH, & REBECCA! I'm so tired of these hoish men making excuses for their lusts! They need to get SAVED! Sorry, but this makes me mad, I wanna punch your Pastor in the mouth for lying from the pulpit like that!!! See, now I gotta repent for wanting to punch a Pastor (that is IF he really is God's annointed and not acting of his own accord) Oh my gosh! JESUS even says in the New Testament that God designed a man and ONE wife, NOT TWO!!!! The FIRST instance of a man with more than one wife was a SINNER WHO HAD MURDERED A YOUNG MAN! STOOPID! Oops! Seriously, men need to grow up and stop letting their Johnson's lead them! I don't care if they are "just a man" that's BS (Bacon Shrimp)!!!! SIN IS SIN FLESH IS FLESH and men need to grow up get saved and walk it the Spirit! Jesus NEVER stared at a woman's hooties and said "I'm only human" why? Cause He did what please the Father! He walked in the Spirit! Men are so stinkin' childish and it burns me up! I do agree, it really bugs me how in some churches the woman has to be the one who dresses modestly but no focus on the man. That's why I appreciate my Pastor. He will mention about dressing as a Christian woman should, but he also talks to the men about lusting! One Sunday he said "Some men are probably thinking, she shouldn't be dressed like that. Well you shouldn't be looking! Hello!" I got happy!

And lastly, they always act like women are trying to get men to ogle them. I hate when I feel men staring at my breasts (I am 5'2, 98-100 lbs and wear a D/DD cup, so you can imagine the ogling). Obviously, no matter what I do, my "cups runneth over" . I feel so uncomfortable when I'm speaking with a man and I can feel his eyes moving up and down my body, especially when it's in church. And some of the most despicable staring has come from "men of Jesus." What would Jesus say to these men????????

Next time you catch one looking, you need to tell him to get saved! I'm a D sistah too, I know about ample cups! No matter what I wear, these boobs ain't going anywhere! No we as women KNOW though that some things shouldn't be worn! Yesterday I saw a sistah at Walmart. She had a ""Got God?" tishirt on, but it was so tight you could see her exact shape, PLUS she had on skin tight Daisy Dukes! Obviously that was sending a very conflicting message lol. Now it's still a man's responsibily to control his eyes, but my goodness, poor guys would be running into stuff all the time cause they have to always look up! Yeah, men are gonna lust no matter what but we ain't gotta help! I certainly don't want some nasty perv lusting after me

 

[Shimmie]

I totally agree with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If beautiful women are his "weakness," then stating that during a sermon would be fine. However, it's the way he says it that's a problem "I did what any normal, heterosexual man would do."

That's becoming my problem with the church. I've actually prayed about this, because at times, Christianity feels sexist. And of course, if Christianity feels sexist, than we often start to attribute those same qualities to God, our Heavenly Father. But the reality is that "His ways are higher than ours."

For example, one of my issues with the church is that I feel they put greater pressure on the woman to make sure that she and her boyfriend don't have premarital sex, when the responsibility is on both parties. I feel like a lot of churches say things like "don't dress provocatively," "don't entice him." "don't let him come into your home unsupervised." Not that these things are wrong, but where's the responsibility on the man? Where's the "don't try to go into her apartment," "don't try to get physical with her." I'm sorry, but in my experience and most women I know, it's the guy that wants to (read: tries to) get physical first (I know we are in 2007, but even with my Christian and non-Christian friends, most of the men they date make the first move towards a sexual relationship).

I think the church often lets men off the hook and puts too much of the responsibility on women. When I was in church one Sunday, the pastor said, "you know, men weren't made to be monogamous. I mean it's really not natural." Well, women weren't made that way either. We all have needs and we all have desires, and I'm personally tired of people believing that it's easier for women to "behave" than men. If it was soooooooooooooooooo easy for women to behave, Proverbs wouldn't warn men to watch out for the seductress. Obviously, women aren't always sooooooooo monogamous either.

Sorry, I just had to vent!

And lastly, they always act like women are trying to get men to ogle them. I hate when I feel men staring at my breasts (I am 5'2, 98-100 lbs and wear a D/DD cup, so you can imagine the ogling). Obviously, no matter what I do, my "cups runneth over" . I feel so uncomfortable when I'm speaking with a man and I can feel his eyes moving up and down my body, especially when it's in church. And some of the most despicable staring has come from "men of Jesus."

What would Jesus say to these men????????

Hey Sweet Coco.... I just asked Him and he said He'd have a talk with them.

I hear you loud and clear...so vent away, little angel. ((( hugs )))

You're so right about the double-standard. However, I think what we as women are being asked to do so to make it easier for the men; for they have the problem with the visuals and the urges.

You and I (and many others) do see the women in church who do not bear the armour of modesty. They are exposing cleavage; top and bottom (low rider jeans); short skirts and don't let summer come.... Oh Sweet Jesus! And they approach the men and they know full well what they are doing.

Personally, I stay covered up. I'm also a D/DD and when I'm in public (work or church, etc.) You'd never know I had large breasts. I wear a minimizer bra which pulls me in closer; in addtion to that, I wear a blazer jacket or loose blouses; sometimes a vest. It's a bit uncomfortable, but because my breasts do draw attention from both men and women, I 'minimize' their appearance to avoid the stares.

More sister hugs... I understand how you feel. It's not easy being gorgeous, is it? Oh well........ We just have to save it all for our husbands.

 

[live2bgr8]

This is why the word says we need to pray for our leaders. We all are weak and fall short of the glory of God.

If you're in a small congregation maybe one of the male congregants could speak to him. Not in an accusing way, but in a helpful: "are-you-really-struggling-with-this-issue? well-let-me-pray-for-you" kind of way. If not, hopefully one of his close advisors would be able to sharpen him.

Some people would not respond to such correction, but if he is a true man of God he will...

 

[live2bgr8]

Hey Sweet Coco.... I just asked Him and he said He'd have a talk with them.

I hear you loud and clear...so vent away, little angel. ((( hugs )))

You're so right about the double-standard. However, I think what we as women are being asked to do so to make it easier for the men; for they have the problem with the visuals and the urges.

You and I (and many others) do see the women in church who do not bear the armour of modesty. They are exposing cleavage; top and bottom (low rider jeans); short skirts and don't let summer come.... Oh Sweet Jesus! And they approach the men and they know full well what they are doing.

Personally, I stay covered up. I'm also a D/DD and when I'm in public (work or church, etc.) You'd never know I had large breasts. I wear a minimizer bra which pulls me in closer; in addtion to that, I wear a blazer jacket or loose blouses; sometimes a vest. It's a bit uncomfortable, but because my breasts do draw attention from both men and women, I 'minimize' their appearance to avoid the stares.

More sister hugs... I understand how you feel. It's not easy being gorgeous, is it? Oh well........ We just have to save it all for our husbands.

ITA-- I think that Christian women also have a responsibillity to help our brothers in this way. We can dress attractively with modesty and wisdom.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

I totally agree with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If beautiful women are his "weakness," then stating that during a sermon would be fine. However, it's the way he says it that's a problem "I did what any normal, heterosexual man would do."

That's becoming my problem with the church. I've actually prayed about this, because at times, Christianity feels sexist. And of course, if Christianity feels sexist, than we often start to attribute those same qualities to God, our Heavenly Father. But the reality is that "His ways are higher than ours."

For example, one of my issues with the church is that I feel they put greater pressure on the woman to make sure that she and her boyfriend don't have premarital sex, when the responsibility is on both parties. I feel like a lot of churches say things like "don't dress provocatively," "don't entice him." "don't let him come into your home unsupervised." Not that these things are wrong, but where's the responsibility on the man? Where's the "don't try to go into her apartment," "don't try to get physical with her." I'm sorry, but in my experience and most women I know, it's the guy that wants to (read: tries to) get physical first (I know we are in 2007, but even with my Christian and non-Christian friends, most of the men they date make the first move towards a sexual relationship).

I think the church often lets men off the hook and puts too much of the responsibility on women. When I was in church one Sunday, the pastor said, "you know, men weren't made to be monogamous. I mean it's really not natural." Well, women weren't made that way either. We all have needs and we all have desires, and I'm personally tired of people believing that it's easier for women to "behave" than men. If it was soooooooooooooooooo easy for women to behave, Proverbs wouldn't warn men to watch out for the seductress. Obviously, women aren't always sooooooooo monogamous either.

Sorry, I just had to vent!

And lastly, they always act like women are trying to get men to ogle them. I hate when I feel men staring at my breasts (I am 5'2, 98-100 lbs and wear a D/DD cup, so you can imagine the ogling). Obviously, no matter what I do, my "cups runneth over" . I feel so uncomfortable when I'm speaking with a man and I can feel his eyes moving up and down my body, especially when it's in church. And some of the most despicable staring has come from "men of Jesus." What would Jesus say to these men????????

I agree with your post. I would have to ask the pastor about the bolded part though. I think man was meant to be monogamous. I mean... God didn't make adam... and eve...and ellen...and eunice... and eartha... and .... you get my point. It was Adam...and Eve. period... until sin crept in.

ETA... sorry kbragg, I didn't realize you had already said this. I agree.