There are Two Stories that Have Me Wondering....

nathansgirl1908I know that Benny Hinn is recently divorced but he humbled himself, asked forgiveness of his church members as well as his followers, and admitted that he was at fault for the demise of his marriage because he had put his family life on the backburner as he travelled the globe preaching the gospel. Other than the following example, I do not know how it was proven that he is/was a charlatan could you please expound on what you said in reference to him.
 
nathansgirl1908I know that Benny Hinn is recently divorced but he humbled himself, asked forgiveness of his church members as well as his followers, and admitted that he was at fault for the demise of his marriage because he had put his family life on the backburner as he travelled the globe preaching the gospel. Other than the following example, I do not know how it was proven that he is/was a charlatan could you please expound on what you said in reference to him.

Um no. I'm not talking about divorce. That wouldn't make him a fraud. I'm talking about the healings that were being showed on his programming. There was an undercover study of the healings which revealed that it was a scam. And before you try to allege that it's an attack of the devil to make it seem like God's power isn't real, it was obvious that something fishy was going on. Dateline did one undercover story about him.And there were issues concerning an orphanage he was supposed to build.
 
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nathansgirl1908 How dare you spread such false accusation because I am an avid supporter for televangelist :grin: it me sadness me each time that these men start of preaching the unadulterated word and doing good works in His name but somewhere along the line it changes. IDK if it is a combination of the fame or the riches reaped from their ministries that makes them do unspeakable things to keep the grave train going because they have become accustomed to a certain lifestyle.
 
I'm talking about the healings that were being showed on his programming. There was an undercover study of the healings which revealed that it was a scam.

Add to that the pretentious display of supposed ability to manipulate the H-ly Spirit at human will...as in slaying folks with his white jacket, etc. T'would be the dangerous side of hypnotism. :giggle:

As for blowing off racism as a non-issue...um, there's such a thing as "evil speech" and G-d forbids it. Evil racist thoughts lead to evil racist tongue that leads to evil racist behavior against fellow man. It's forbidden to the point that G-d says that, if we do such (insert racist behavior here), we will not see G-d. It's a warning.
 
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Injustice in all forms in this world is bad enough, but when it rears its ugly head among Christians, it's really something to pray about, ITA. I understand where your heart is, even though you go straight for the jugglar. :lol: I only hope that false prophets, preachers who sell miracles and blessings, and people who are racist repent and turn away from such evil doing. They have a bigger authority to answer to than the courts of the land and the punishment is most certainly more sever. There is no 'do over' opportunities at the gates of hell. God bless~



Um no. I'm not talking about divorce. That wouldn't make him a fraud. I'm talking about the healings that were being showed on his programming. There was an undercover study of the healings which revealed that it was a scam. And before you try to allege that it's an attack of the devil to make it seem like God's power isn't real, it was obvious that something fishy was going on. Dateline did one undercover story about him.And there were issues concerning an orphanage he was supposed to build.
 
nathansgirl1908 How dare you spread such false accusation because I am an avid supporter for televangelist :grin: it me sadness me each time that these men start of preaching the unadulterated word and doing good works in His name but somewhere along the line it changes. IDK if it is a combination of the fame or the riches reaped from their ministries that makes them do unspeakable things to keep the grave train going because they have become accustomed to a certain lifestyle.

I think it IS a combo of all that you mentioned. And of course unbelievers jump on that as their "evidence" that Christianity is somehow fraudulent. I'm one of those people who believes that a minister does not have to live in poverty in order to be "real" but it DOES seem like so many of them can't handle the wealth they receive without it going haywire somehow. :nono:
 
I think it IS a combo of all that you mentioned. And of course unbelievers jump on that as their "evidence" that Christianity is somehow fraudulent. I'm one of those people who believes that a minister does not have to live in poverty in order to be "real" but it DOES seem like so many of them can't handle the wealth they receive without it going haywire somehow. :nono:

They're not used to having 'riches' and it just leads them astray, especially with the flesh and the ego.
 
As for blowing off racism as a non-issue...um, there's such a thing as "evil speech" and G-d forbids it. Evil racist thoughts lead to evil racist tongue that leads to evil racist behavior against fellow man. It's forbidden to the point that G-d says that, if we do such (insert racist behavior here), we will not see G-d. It's a warning.
As I said, If people choose to damage their souls and cripple their spirit like that, they have to answer to Him and only He can fix their hearts.” It is not my problem; I have no control over people. I turn any issue over to Him and keep it moving; He rewards me when I do that. That is the way He rolls. *shrug*

Evil is a tool for refinement and different from sin; do not combine the two. Curses are evil, are they not? And yet, He uses them and allows them to occur. Let us look back at the incident concerning the Syrophoenician woman:

Mark 7:25-30 (and Matthew 15:21-28) For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of Him, and came and fell at His feet. The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she sought Him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

But Jesus said to her, “Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to the dogs.”
Oh, snap! He called her a dog, a common insult the Jews had for Gentiles. Don’t believe me; look it up.

And she answered and said to Him, “Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.”
Do you see what happened? She humbled herself before Him and still turned the issue over to Him. Do we have that kind of strength? Only by the Holy Spirit we do.

And He said to her, “For this saying go your way; the devil is gone out of your daughter.”

And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid on the bed.
There is no mistake why this passage exist. He wants us to understand the fires of refinement will come in many different forms, including racism. We have to trust Him to handle it when we pray it over to Him. If I am called to meet any dilemma head-on, His Guide within me will direct my steps (Exodus 4:12, Matthew 10:19, Mark 13:11, Luke 12:11-12, Luke 21:15).
 
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Gosh, I never knew any of that. I think I'll convert...just kidding.:lol:

You're partly talking about self-esteem issues. I'm talking about evil speech lol and I don't confuse the two. I also comprehend refinement. The "dog" issue, yes, I have been knowing about it. There are worse words for goyim...but I won't say them here. Don't ask me how I know...let's just say it's in the family and it falls under "evil speech." I do get your point but will expand mine. We are part of a community. It's not enough to just know G-d yourself. We are all in this together, as from the beginning of time. So, to me, it's not enough to just know a truth inside of myself, I'm responsible for spreading it to my brother and this is what repairing the world is all about.
 
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Gosh, I never knew any of that. I think I'll convert...just kidding.:lol:

You're partly talking about self-esteem issues. I'm talking about evil speech lol and I don't confuse the two. I also comprehend refinement. The "dog" issue, yes, I have been knowing about it. There are worse words for goyim...but I won't say them here. Don't ask me how I know...let's just say it's in the family and it falls under "evil speech." I do get your point but will expand mine. We are part of a community. It's not enough to just know G-d yourself. We are all in this together, as from the beginning of time. So, to me, it's not enough to just know a truth inside of myself, I'm responsible for spreading it to my brother and this is what repairing the world is all about.
I do not esteem myself in any way, good or bad; self-esteem is a man-centered concept. My life is for His use, nothing more.

Outside of children, who does not know what racism is and how it affects people? We are to spread is the Evangel through His authority and teach (and correct) the brethren when He prompts us to. That's it.

We are not to repair the world; that is His domain. We are His tools, not by our own intentions or strength, but His. Even this ancient prayer alludes to it:

Aleinu

It is our duty to praise the Master of all,
to acclaim the greatness of the One
who forms all creation.

For God did not make us
like the nations of other lands,
and did not make us the same as other
families of the Earth.

God did not place us
in the same situations as others,
and our destiny is not the same
as anyone else's.


And we bend our knees, and bow down,
and give thanks, before the Ruler,
the Ruler of Rulers, the Holy One, Blessed is God.

The One who spread out the heavens,
and made the foundations of the Earth,
and whose precious dwelling is in the heavens above,
and whose powerful Presence is in the highest heights.

Adonai is our God.
There is none else.


Our God is truth, and nothing else compares.
As it is written in Your Torah:
"And you shall know today, and take to heart,
that Adonai is the only God,
in the heavens above and on Earth below.
There is no other."


Therefore we put our hope in You, Adonai our God,
to soon see the glory of Your strength,

to remove all idols from the Earth,
and to completely cut off all false gods;

to repair the world, Your holy empire.

And for all living flesh to call Your name,
and for all the wicked of the Earth to turn to You.

May all the world's inhabitants recognize and know that
to You every knee must bend and every tongue must swear loyalty.

Before You, Adonai, our God,
may all bow down,
and give honor to Your precious name,
and may all take upon themselves the yoke of Your rule.

And may You reign over them soon
and forever and always.

Because all rule is Yours alone,
and You will rule
in honor forever and ever.

As it is written in Your Torah:
"Adonai will reign forever and ever."

And it is said: "Adonai will be Ruler
over the whole Earth, and on that day,
God will be One,
and God's name will be One.
 
So self-esteem is a pagan concept now? Do you not realize that the Aleinu goes hand-in-hand with tikkun olam? You highlighted it right there in blue. That's what it actually means. Not sure why you posted it...it's in my prayer book and I haven't forgotten. I hope we're not playing a game of "I'm more kosher than you...cuz I'm as tzaddeket as it's going to be for right now ." :lol: I get your point but I also strive to be of earthly good as well. I can't be so holy that I see everything like a hermit and ain't living here in an eruv all cloistered off. Honestly, that is not my calling but for your own specific calling, more power to ya! :yep: I comprehend you.:yep:

Edit: Come to think about it, why are you quoting Aleinu? If you actually only believe in the protestant bible...um....:look: I thought you only read from it and none other. And as for the blue...do you realize that, to a Jew, Jesus is a false idol? I'm not saying that...I'm just saying. What you up to? :lol::lol:
 
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So self-esteem is a pagan concept now?

Nope, started in the garden:

Genesis 3:6-7 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
Do you not realize that the Aleinu goes hand-in-hand with tikkun olam? You highlighted it right there in blue. That's what it actually means. Not sure why you posted it...it's in my prayer book and I haven't forgotten. I hope we're not playing a game of "I'm more kosher than you...cuz I'm as tzaddeket as it's going to be for right now ." :lol: I get your point but I also strive to be of earthly good as well. I can't be so holy that I see everything like a hermit and ain't living here in an eruv all cloistered off. Honestly, that is not my calling but for your own specific calling, more power to ya! :yep: I comprehend you.:yep:

Edit: Come to think about it, why are you quoting Aleinu? If you actually only believe in the protestant bible...um....:look: I thought you only read from it and none other. And as for the blue...do you realize that, to a Jew, Jesus is a false idol? I'm not saying that...I'm just saying. What you up to? :lol::lol:

No, what it does show that you do not know Scripture for you are blinded by tradition, the very thing Jesus fought against.
 
^^^That's what you were up to, attempting to understand my faith by proclaiming I don't know scripture. What else could I have expected? You don't fully comprehend the very prayer you posted, that's all I'm saying, but thank you very much for trying to be my H-ly Spirit, as well as my priest and rabbi. But, um, no thanks. Seriously. TOPIC...please. I understood your point without managing to insult your salvation.
 
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I have mixed feelings about Joel. I think he is repetitive but I'm not ready to call him a fraud or even suggest it. I enjoy some of his messages and think they are useful. Everyone doesn't always want to hear about fire and damnation all the time. I think he paints the picture of a loving God and not a God so remote and removed. Having said that, I don't believe in prosperity doctrine but he's definitely not the worst I've seen about the prosperity doctrine. And people can say what they want about his finances, but his finances have not yet been revealed to be questionable. Unlike some others like Creflo and Eddie Long and Paula White.

Same here... He *Joel* has opened me up to ridding myself of the *big spook in the sky* thought process I previously had.:yep::yep::yep::yep:
 
^^^That's what you were up to, attempting to understand my faith by proclaiming I don't know scripture. What did I expect? You don't comprehend the very prayer you posted, that's all I'm saying. You might wish to stick with protestant theology and leave Jewish theology alone cuz you don't give it justice. So, Jesus is fighting against me, huh? He didn't have tradition either? Seems you could learn a little something else about Jesus and the culture He came from as well as my Church before you go spouting off this assumption. Word of advice, please stop worrying about my soul and worry about your own. No, seriously...work for your own salvation...however that is for YOU. You cannot step into Jesus' place in my life.
My comprehension is fine and I have no agenda but truth. What you like to accuse others of doing you do yourself, as you have done trying to understand and criticize me. One day, you will understand all I have posted in this forum.
 
I have never implied that you or another is not "saved" in this forum. I don't think racism is something to be ignored. That's an opinion, not a criticism of your ability to dust it off your shoulders. I'm a tradition lover til the grave. BAH!

Proverbial glass wall comes slamming down...I walk away laughing hysterically! Peace!
 
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I have never implied that you or another is not "saved" in this forum. I don't think racism is something to be ignored. That's an opinion, not a criticism of your ability to dust it off your shoulders. I'm a tradition lover til the grave. BAH!

Proverbial glass wall comes slamming down...I walk away laughing hysterically! Peace!
You are extrapolating things I never implied, assumed things about me I never said, and insulted me after I demonstrated you misrepresented that prayer. It is not about ignoring racism, but refusing to let it have power in one's life. I turn all issues over to Him; He rewards me, as I said before. What is wrong with that? Do you want to be continuously bound to the troubles of the world or watch the Father work on them around you?
 
Unlike some others like Creflo and Eddie Long and Paula White.

@nathansgirl1908 - just out of curiousity, do you ever find Creflo's messages useful? (please take this callout/question in the vein intended - as I'm discovering I agree with you more than disagree)

When Creflo gets animated and breaks down how not to live your life based off of emotions, urges us to seek the Word, etc. He has quite a few sermons in 2010 to that effect that I have replayed over and over, then turned to my Bible and absorbed/received the Word. I find those to really really help me to put things back into perspective ~ although I do agree his financials may not reflect what expectations I have for him.

What are your thoughts?
 
Im not trying to endorse Creflo dollar...because not all things I agree with,but the "old" Creflo dollar use to preach..He use to preach against sin and preach about righteousness..Same for Paula..she was a adovcate preacher about being formed in to the image of Christ....but I guess things change.....





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You are extrapolating things I never implied, assumed things about me I never said, and insulted me after I demonstrated you misrepresented that prayer. It is not about ignoring racism, but refusing to let it have power in one's life. I turn all issues over to Him; He rewards me, as I said before. What is wrong with that? Do you want to be continuously bound to the troubles of the world or watch the Father work on them around you?

Honestly, Nymphe, I'm actually intrigued by people who can brush most of racism off and see the struggle in a different light. That's not my experience due to circumstances. Consider yours a great blessing.

About the rest, sigh....you must realize...I mean, honestly. :look: Unless you feel you have the right to. Insulting...differing opinions are not insult but trying to say (ad nauseum as I've experienced from you, per se) that someone is not saved because they do not see things exactly how you see them, that they are stuck on non-salvific tradition as you imply, about seeking the H-ly Spirit so that another thinks along your lines? Well, I most definitely comprehend the Aleinu. See, the thing about that prayer and the religion it comes from, there is no single, simple answer to scripture....there are many, many layers of meaning and application. So throwing it at me and highlighting a portion of it without prior understanding about "repairing the world" and man's duty in it (we are G-d's hands etc.)...SIGHHHHHHH.

Please take this the right way. You know what YOU need in your spiritual walk but you have no clue about mine. :look: Concern yourself with YOUR walk with Christ. Please, just leave it at that. I'll also ask you to stop this ridiculous attack on tradition and denominations and how they worship the same G-d you do not to your liking. It's not warranted. There are things about protestantism that is irritating to me yet, I don't tell those people they are wrong. I might question, but I do not tell them they don't know Jesus. And you do not know who is "saved" and who is not. And certainly, you are not hearing from the H-ly Spirit regarding your message to me. It's emanating from YOU...not HaShem...since you wanna school me on how to pray. You simply do not know what it is that I most absolutely do know about scripture. Many layers ... Shalom lekha.
 
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I know that you directed this question to someone else but, aactually I do find some things that he says very useful..

@- just out of curiousity, do you ever find Creflo's messages useful? (please take this callout/question in the vein intended - as I'm discovering I agree with you more than disagree)

When Creflo gets animated and breaks down how not to live your life based off of emotions, urges us to seek the Word, etc. He has quite a few sermons in 2010 to that effect that I have replayed over and over, then turned to my Bible and absorbed/received the Word. I find those to really really help me to put things back into perspective ~ although I do agree his financials may not reflect what expectations I have for him.

What are your thoughts?
 
It is sad, very sad. They may as well get used to 'us' Black Christians, because Heaven is 'FULL of Us'... quite full. As a matter of fact when they see Peter at the 'Gate', he's Black too.

So what they gonna do, turn around and choose hell? :lol:

and what about "Simeon who was called a Niger" Acts 13:1 :lachen:
 
as for Paula it's too much about first fruits and sowing seed I think that body needs to know much more than that today...

Im not trying to endorse Creflo dollar...because not all things I agree with,but the "old" Creflo dollar use to preach..He use to preach against sin and preach about righteousness..Same for Paula..she was a adovcate preacher about being formed in to the image of Christ....but I guess things change.....





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Not trying to defend the man, but it's 2011, Creflo Dollar STILL preaches against sin and on righteousness. I do know not everyone can listen to him preach, but he's gifted to minister to who will receive him. :yep:


Im not trying to endorse Creflo dollar...because not all things I agree with,but the "old" Creflo dollar use to preach..He use to ?preach against sin and preach about righteousness..Same for Paula..she was a adovcate preacher about being formed in to the image of Christ....but I guess things change.....





disappointed.gif
 
Im not trying to endorse Creflo dollar...because not all things I agree with,but the "old" Creflo dollar use to preach..He use to preach against sin and preach about righteousness..Same for Paula..she was a adovcate preacher about being formed in to the image of Christ....but I guess things change.....

That's the Creflo, i "listen to" as well. The "old" Paula for me as well....:yep:
 
Not trying to defend the man, but it's 2011, Creflo Dollar STILL preaches against sin and on righteousness. I do know not everyone can listen to him preach, but he's gifted to minister to who will receive him. :yep:

He had a message this morning that was very timely ~ as my daughter and I were a fussin' & verbally tusslin'...

I take what I need from him, you know? Like Joyce, when she discusses forgiveness and modesty ~ my ears perk up...
 
@nathansgirl1908 - just out of curiousity, do you ever find Creflo's messages useful? (please take this callout/question in the vein intended - as I'm discovering I agree with you more than disagree)

When Creflo gets animated and breaks down how not to live your life based off of emotions, urges us to seek the Word, etc. He has quite a few sermons in 2010 to that effect that I have replayed over and over, then turned to my Bible and absorbed/received the Word. I find those to really really help me to put things back into perspective ~ although I do agree his financials may not reflect what expectations I have for him.

What are your thoughts?
I'm glad you asked this question because my earlier response about Creflo could use clarification. I think Creflo has a gift. I also think he skirts the line between that gift and falling into the traps of riches that many others have fallen into. I find many things that he says to be useful. I enjoy listning to him although I'm sometimes wary of how he approaches prosperity issues. But despite the usefulness of his sermons and lectures, I don't like some of the issues that have been revealed concerning his finances. I especially was bothered by the fact that he helped Evander Holyfield hide substantial assets during his divorce.
 
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