The Pope

[kayte]

I have to acknowledge that while it was significant that a religouis leader
gave a Universal World Wide message about Christ and Unity & that he acknowledged the sexual abuse front and center...& I must give him props for this.....

After all.....
when do we Americans..the world... ever really recognize Christ on such a super star status level as the Pope message is in symbol of?
There were rap stars and American Idols,red carpet ,the President and et al...celebrating the message of God ..as embodied by the Pope.
and that's the whole issue..right there for me

My heart is troubled...because kissing his ring and bowing down to this man.....alienated me from the message..and is in direct conflict with Biblical teachings..and I have to question this...

Jesus ..
when his disciples complained about people casting out demons in HIS name ..HE said it himself.... whoever is with us ..is for us.....Is it possible as none of us are perfect...well given the good the Pope did ...why can't I reconcile essentially... the physical & ritualistic worshipping of this man who is holy...but NOT Christ.
It being an established tradition in the Catholic religion,beauracy, and hierarchy does not cut it for me.

 

[saved06]

Yeah, I was thinking that too. I was like does he preach fire from heaven, what's so great about this man that people bow down to him and kiss his ring? He is not God. People are worshipping him and not God. You don't need the pope to pray for you, you can pray for yourself.

 

[tffy2004]

I have to acknowledge that while it was significant that a religouis leader
gave a Universal World Wide message about Christ and Unity & that he acknowledged the sexual abuse front and center...& I must give him props for this.....

After all.....
when do we Americans..the world... ever really recognize Christ on such a super star status level as the Pope message is in symbol of?
There were rap stars and American Idols,red carpet ,the President and et al...celebrating the message of God ..as embodied by the Pope.
and that's the whole issue..right there for me

My heart is troubled...because kissing his ring and bowing down to this man.....alienated me from the message..and is in direct conflict with Biblical teachings..and I have to question this...

Jesus ..
when his disciples complained about people casting out demons in HIS name ..HE said it himself.... whoever is with us ..is for us.....Is it possible as none of us are perfect...well given the good the Pope did ...why can't I reconcile essentially... the physical & ritualistic worshipping of this man who is holy...but NOT Christ.
It being an established tradition in the Catholic religion,beauracy, and hierarchy does not cut it for me.

Thats one section of 'christianity' that I don't think I will ever understand. Everything about Catholicism bothers me to be honest. I was flipping through channels and one of the news anchors referred to this MAN as His HOLINESS............that literally made me sick to my stomach how and why do they do this I mean what is all the hype about. He is a Man just like any other man. I respect him for devoting his life to doing what he does but come on His Holiness. Just goes back to Mark 7:6-8

Its sickening to think what religion has majority of world into.

 

[kayte]

one of the news anchors referred to this MAN as His HOLINESS

made me sick to my stomach

Me..too!!!!!!!!!
I thought am I wrong to feel this way?

People are worshipping him and not God.

See..isn't this a SIN?
Didn't even an angel stop someone...who fell at his feet ...and say
((maybe John in Revelations or Daniel or both))

and say.....stop.....don't worship....me
Same with another disciple...Peter ..or Paul who said....don't worship
me I am a man

I'm just looked up the verse ..thank you for that reference in Mark...


6 He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.

7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.'
8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions." 9 And he continued, "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

 

[miami74]

Yeah, I was thinking that too. I was like does he preach fire from heaven, what's so great about this man that people bow down to him and kiss his ring? He is not God. People are worshipping him and not God. You don't need the pope to pray for you, you can pray for yourself.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I am not fond of the Pope, and I grew up as a Catholic! To me, he is just another human being, like any one else on this earth. I do not see anything special about him and do not see him as the divine. I have no interest in the Pope, only God. God will be the only one I will bow down to, not the Pope.

 

[PaperClip]

I was talking to my professor today (she calls herself a "recovering Catholic")....

She said she has a problem with this particular pontiff because of his involvement in squashing the molesting priests and that over a 50-year period, the Roman Catholic Church has paid out $2 BILLION dollars to victims.... Wow....

On a spiritual level, the position of pope is like a form of a spiritual gatekeeper, if you will, because of the weight and authority of that position (that there are BILLIONS of Roman Catholics across the planet). That's a lot of people under such leadership.

I'm not Roman Catholic and didn't grow up as such so I don't have that depth of socialization re. the pope as others do. Culture and socialization have A LOT to do with how we consider such things.

Maybe Roman Catholics don't "worship" the pope but since they consider the pope the MAIN GO-BETWEEN between the people and the Lord God Almighty, that they give such reverence to the pope. It's pivotal to their Roman Catholicism.

This rubs some Protestants the wrong way (particularly Pentecostals) because of the belief that Jesus Christ served as our go-between on the cross.

 

[divya]

I would like to share this series of sermons regarding the Mark of the Beast, which ties into the Papacy. It may be long but it is very much worth the listen. Part 6 and 7 deal greatly with the Pope/Papacy, but the previous videos lay the foundation.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlnroLOiyPg
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83FG8YbxXRo
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByTGiGBNSA8&feature=related
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66yTe3Dhesw
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWpzq2sUoF8
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DysEz3DrSvE
Part 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AyK_8LiVwQ

Lastly, this is not any sort of bash on Catholics, but deals with the Papacy itself. Certainly there will be people who professed Catholicism here on earth standing on the sea of glass.

Take care ladies.

 

[Country gal]

Yeah, I was thinking that too. I was like does he preach fire from heaven, what's so great about this man that people bow down to him and kiss his ring? He is not God. People are worshipping him and not God. You don't need the pope to pray for you, you can pray for yourself.

It is such a misconception that individuals are putting the Pope before Christ. It is also frustrating when folks make the assumptions that Catholics are not christians or we don't read our bible. I read my bible frequently. I also have a lot of reference and respect for the Pope as my religious leader. No one is above God not even Christ. Christ taught us to pray to the father using his name.

I can't folks for being excited about seeing him. I have seen people bow down to other leaders of the world.

 

[divya]

I was talking to my professor today (she calls herself a "recovering Catholic")....

She said she has a problem with this particular pontiff because of his involvement in squashing the molesting priests and that over a 50-year period, the Roman Catholic Church has paid out $2 BILLION dollars to victims.... Wow....

On a spiritual level, the position of pope is like a form of a spiritual gatekeeper, if you will, because of the weight and authority of that position (that there are BILLIONS of Roman Catholics across the planet). That's a lot of people under such leadership.

I'm not Roman Catholic and didn't grow up as such so I don't have that depth of socialization re. the pope as others do. Culture and socialization have A LOT to do with how we consider such things.

Maybe Roman Catholics don't "worship" the pope but since they consider the pope the MAIN GO-BETWEEN between the people and the Lord God Almighty, that they give such reverence to the pope. It's pivotal to their Roman Catholicism.

This rubs some Protestants the wrong way (particularly Pentecostals) because of the belief that Jesus Christ served as our go-between on the cross.

Exactly. This is the crucial issue.

Just some additional food for thought. The Bible tells us that an antiChrist is one who does what? Substitutes himself in Christ's place. Christ alone was the Lamb that was slain. Christ alone intercedes on our behalf, NOT the pope.

 

[Country gal]

I was talking to my professor today (she calls herself a "recovering Catholic")....

She said she has a problem with this particular pontiff because of his involvement in squashing the molesting priests and that over a 50-year period, the Roman Catholic Church has paid out $2 BILLION dollars to victims.... Wow....

On a spiritual level, the position of pope is like a form of a spiritual gatekeeper, if you will, because of the weight and authority of that position (that there are BILLIONS of Roman Catholics across the planet). That's a lot of people under such leadership.

I'm not Roman Catholic and didn't grow up as such so I don't have that depth of socialization re. the pope as others do. Culture and socialization have A LOT to do with how we consider such things.

Maybe Roman Catholics don't "worship" the pope but since they consider the pope the MAIN GO-BETWEEN between the people and the Lord God Almighty, that they give such reverence to the pope. It's pivotal to their Roman Catholicism.

This rubs some Protestants the wrong way (particularly Pentecostals) because of the belief that Jesus Christ served as our go-between on the cross.

Your instructor really needs to check her facts. In fact Pope Benedict was very vocal under the last Pope.

 

[divya]

It is such a misconception that individuals are putting the Pope before Christ. It is also frustrating when folks make the assumptions that Catholics are not christians or we don't read our bible. I read my bible frequently. I also have a lot of reference and respect for the Pope as my religious leader. No one is above God not even Christ. Christ taught us to pray to the father using his name.

I can't folks for being excited about seeing him. I have seen people bow down to other leaders of the world.

I just would like to let you know that my posts are done with love and the best intentions. Hopefully none of them offend you. I surely believe that Catholics are Christians. The Bible tells us to believe on the Lord Jesus and we shall be saved. Thus, Catholics are my brothers and sisters in Christ. Certainly many Catholics read the Bible.

However, my point of disagreement is on the issue of putting the Pope above Christ. It may not always be blatant, but I do believe that is surely a reality although not for all Catholic individuals. It is within the Catholic doctrine, and many do adhere - knowingly and unknowingly.

 

[Country gal]

How is it any difference when folks get up in arms about their pastors? This happens to be the relgious leader of large universal church. He is a man. He is not the go between for his followers and God. I don't need a go between. Most catholics that I interact with don't feel that way. Just another misconception.

 

[Keen]

It is such a misconception that individuals are putting the Pope before Christ. It is also frustrating when folks make the assumptions that Catholics are not christians or we don't read our bible. I read my bible frequently. I also have a lot of reference and respect for the Pope as my religious leader. No one is above God not even Christ. Christ taught us to pray to the father using his name.

I can't folks for being excited about seeing him. I have seen people bow down to other leaders of the world.

You know what, people will have their misconceptions. I don't even care to address them because we just had this conversation last week. I think many protestants are hypocritical about the catholic faith. But of course it is easier to see a hay in someone else's eyes than the log in one's own eye.

 

[Country gal]

I just would like to let you know that my posts are done with love and the best intentions. Hopefully none of them offend you. I surely believe that Catholics are Christians. The Bible tells us to believe on the Lord Jesus and we shall be saved. Thus, Catholics are my brothers and sisters in Christ. Certainly many Catholics read the Bible.

However, my point of disagreement is on the issue of putting the Pope above Christ. It may not always be blatant, but I do believe that is surely a reality although not for all Catholic individuals. It is within the Catholic doctrine, and many do adhere - knowingly and unknowingly.

I am not offended but I have been practicing Catholicism for a long time. It is not in any Catholic doctrine that I have read that the Pope is above Christ. In fact at the Papal Mass in DC, people were hooping and hollering for the Pope but one of the last shots before mass began was of Jesus on the Cross, folks were exciting and shouting for joy that we were all there in the name of Christ.

 

[Keen]

I just would like to let you know that my posts are done with love and the best intentions. Hopefully none of them offend you. I surely believe that Catholics are Christians. The Bible tells us to believe on the Lord Jesus and we shall be saved. Thus, Catholics are my brothers and sisters in Christ. Certainly many Catholics read the Bible.

However, my point of disagreement is on the issue of putting the Pope above Christ. It may not always be blatant, but I do believe that is surely a reality although not for all Catholic individuals. It is within the Catholic doctrine, and many do adhere - knowingly and unknowingly.

Would you believe a Catholic if they told you that they do not put the Pope above Christ or have you made up your mind? Also how do you figure Caholics put the Pope before Christ?

 

[divya]

How is it any difference when folks get up in arms about their pastors? This happens to be the relgious leader of large universal church. He is a man. He is not the go between for his followers and God. I don't need a go between. Most catholics that I interact with don't feel that way. Just another misconception.

It is certain aspects, it is different historically and currently. However, it can also be the same. I agree with you that he is a man, however Catholic doctrine exalts the Pope higher and as a go-between. The Virgin Mary is also said to do the same.

It may be a misconception in your eyes, however, my parents were raised Catholics in a different region of the world than you and have a totally experience. Other of my family members who were Catholic, as well as those who still are can confirm the same.

 

[Country gal]

It just seems people are more concerned with finding reasons in thinking thier belief or misconception is right versus being openminded to truth.

 

[PassionFruit]

Yeah, I was thinking that too. I was like does he preach fire from heaven, what's so great about this man that people bow down to him and kiss his ring? He is not God. People are worshipping him and not God. You don't need the pope to pray for you, you can pray for yourself.

When he was in DC last week, one woman on the news called him Jesus on Earth

I turned off the TV which I know was wrong cuz Jesus was born of a woman and wasnt without sin and that someone's belief system.. but still.. my mind cant comprehend the Catholics worshiping him

 

[PassionFruit]

Would you believe a Catholic if they told you that they do not put the Pope above Christ or have you made up your mind? Also how do you figure Caholics put the Pope before Christ?

maybe its an individual thing but I have heard Catholics saying the Pope IS Christ...

 

[divya]

Would you believe a Catholic if they told you that they do not put the Pope above Christ or have you made up your mind? Also how do you figure Caholics put the Pope before Christ?

Please go back and read my post. I would agree with the individual as to whether or not they regard the Pope above Christ. However, I would not agree that the doctrine of the Catholic church do not do this.

 

[Highly Favored8]

Is this the same Pope who,



'Racist evil'
As a boy, Pope Benedict XVI was a member of the Hitler Youth in Germany but South Africa's President Thabo Mbeki says this experience will help him fight racism in Africa.
"The new Pope, Benedict XVI, endured being forced into the Nazi army as a teenager in the 1940s. This gave him firsthand knowledge of racist evil, a scourge that is by no means defeated in the world of 2005," he said.
In the 1980s, Cardinal Ratzinger cracked down on Bishops in Latin America who backed liberation theology, which argued the church had a duty to liberate the poor from oppression.
Nevertheless, Mr Mbeki sees "him as a potential ally of insight and strength in renewed warfare to create a new, safer and fairer world." In the Democratic Republic of Congo, which has the largest Catholic population in Africa, the National Conference of Bishops welcomed Pope Benedict XVI as "a great sign of continuity in the actions of his predecessor, whose right-hand man he was."
BBC News/ World



I don't know!

 

[divya]

It just seems people are more concerned with finding reasons in thinking thier belief or misconception is right versus being openminded to truth.

Please be honest.

Have you read Catholic doctrine? Have you read the history of the Church?

 

[Keen]

It is certain aspects, it is different historically and currently. However, it can also be the same. I agree with you that he is a man, however Catholic doctrine exalts the Pope higher and as a go-between.

It may be a misconception in your eyes, however, my parents were raised Catholics in a different region of the world than you and have a totally experience. Other of my family members who were Catholic, as well as those who still are can confirm the same.

Can you reference those doctrines?

I do understand there are extremist in every religion. I was just reading this pass easter that in the Philippines (I think it was the Philippines) that there is a tradition of actually nailing young men to the cross to celebrate easter. The people does this on their own. The priest interviewed said that they do not promote such activity but then people do it anyway. I don't mean to make any correlation to the country your parents are from. I'm just trying to illustrate that the church cannot force anyone to follow or not follow church doctrine.

BTW: I'm just using different colors for different train of thought. Don't mean any thing by the colors.

 

[divya]

Can you reference those doctrines?

I do understand there are extremist in every religion. I was just reading this pass easter that in the Philippines (I think it was the Philippines) that there is a tradition of actually nailing young men to the cross to celebrate easter. The people does this on their own. The priest interviewed said that they do not promote such activity but then people do it anyway. I don't mean to make any correlation to the country your parents are from. I'm just trying to illustrate that the church cannot force anyone to follow or not follow church doctrine.

BTW: I'm just using different colors for different train of thought. Don't mean any thing by the colors.

Of course! I will do my best to provide as much information on this as possible. Again, I would like to assure you that this isn't an attack on Catholics. There has been an onslaught of rude and disrespectful comments over the past few days, and I purposely stayed away from the thread as to not make it seem as thought there is the same attitude from my end.

 

[Keen]

Of course! I will do my best to provide as much information on this as possible. Again, I would like to assure you that this isn't an attack on Catholics. There has been an onslaught of rude and disrespectful comments over the past few days, and I purposely stayed away from the thread as to not make it seem as thought there is the same attitude from my end.

My only issue is with people arriving at conclusions without knowledge. I do want your reference though. I've never read the entire Catholic doctrine. In fact I haven't read most of it. I have it at home collecting dust. But Catholics and protestants read the same thing and arrive at different conclusions all the time.

 

[divya]

POPE INTERCESSION - from the current Pope himself

Pope Benedict prays JPII will help him build on spiritual gifts

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI prayed that Pope John Paul II would intercede for him with God, helping him to gather and build on the spiritual gifts that Pope John Paul gave to the church.

The Vatican police said almost 40,000 people joined Pope Benedict April 2 in St. Peter's Square for a Mass marking the third anniversary of Pope John Paul's death.

"We pray that from heaven he will continue to intercede for each one of us, and in a special way for me, whom providence has called to harvest his invaluable spiritual heritage," the pope said in his homily.
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801774.htm
_________________________________________________________________________


REGARDING THE VIRGIN MARY:

Pope Benedict's Website
• In its devotion to Christ's mother, the Virgin Mary, who Catholics believe gave birth to Jesus without having sex first and who was raised body and soul into heaven where she occupies a special place interceding between God and His people. http://www.popebenedictonline.org/php/showContent.php?linkid=4

______________________________________________________________________

Looking for more...

 

[Country gal]

Please be honest.

Have you read Catholic doctrine? Have you read the history of the Church?

Funny, yes I have. At one point, Southern Baptist believed that slaves were not human and did not deserve the same rights as whites. All churches evolve. In fact many of the past beliefs have been modernized for lack of a better word. Many of the things that I was taught as a child are no longer in practice. Please don't insult my intelliegence and think I just blindly follow the Catholic Church without knowing the history.

 

[divya]

My only issue is with people arriving at conclusions without knowledge. I do want your reference though. I've never read the entire Catholic doctrine. In fact I haven't read most of it. I have it at home collecting dust. But Catholics and protestants read the same thing and arrive at different conclusions all the time.

Really wish I had the books here with me. My father has them in his library. However, I am almost sure enough can be found online.

 

[Keen]

POPE INTERCESSION - from the current Pope himself

Pope Benedict prays JPII will help him build on spiritual gifts

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI prayed that Pope John Paul II would intercede for him with God, helping him to gather and build on the spiritual gifts that Pope John Paul gave to the church.

The Vatican police said almost 40,000 people joined Pope Benedict April 2 in St. Peter's Square for a Mass marking the third anniversary of Pope John Paul's death.

"We pray that from heaven he will continue to intercede for each one of us, and in a special way for me, whom providence has called to harvest his invaluable spiritual heritage," the pope said in his homily.
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801774.htm
_________________________________________________________________________


REGARDING THE VIRGIN MARY:

Pope Benedict's Website
• In its devotion to Christ's mother, the Virgin Mary, who Catholics believe gave birth to Jesus without having sex first and who was raised body and soul into heaven where she occupies a special place interceding between God and His people. http://www.popebenedictonline.org/php/showContent.php?linkid=4

______________________________________________________________________

Looking for more...

Catholics participate in intercession all the time. Not just with the pope, but with the Saints and each other. I see people on this forum asking for prayers all the time.

 

[divya]

Funny, yes I have. At one point, Southern Baptist believed that slaves were not human and did not deserve the same rights as whites. All churches evolve. In fact many of the past beliefs have been modernized for lack of a better word. Many of the things that I was taught as a child are no longer in practice. Please don't insult my intelligence and think I just blindly follow the Catholic Church without knowing the history.

I don't believe that I ever asserted that you blindly followed anything. However, my question was whether you have read the doctrine/history. It's extensive, which is the reason for my question. In my opinion, just because someone has not read all the doctrine does not mean that they blindly follow either. Seems like you are very much on the defensive, which is understood, especially considering the past couple days on the forum.