Steve Pavlina on Polyamory (Swinging)

Radianthealth

Radianthealth

Well-Known Member
I found these articles interesting. I have been reading his blog and posting on his forum for about two years now. I don't always agree with what he has to say but I find it interesting how resistant I am to this idea despite his supporting arguments.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2009/01/polyamory/

The excerpt that stung the most:

"In contrast to monogamy, I think marriage is an unnecessary legal institution that does more harm than good.
I got married to Erin when I was 26 years old. We met when I was 22. If I had it to do all over again, knowing what I now know, I wouldn’t have gotten married.":sad:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2009/01/conscious-sexuality/

I also find it interesting that his wife's primary goal in 2009 is to loose 50 pounds...
 
These are interesting articles (very long though lol). I've engaged in these conversations with a friend recently. It's an overwhelming concept and not for the faint of heart....doesn't align with my personal, moral or religious beliefs. But as my girlfriend says, "do you boo"
 
arr1216 said:
These are interesting articles (very long though lol). I've engaged in these conversations with a friend recently. It's an overwhelming concept and not for the faint of heart....doesn't align with my personal, moral or religious beliefs. But as my girlfriend says, "do you boo"
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I can't figure out if I am resistent to this because of social conditioning or what.

It just doesn't stick with me like some other unconventional practices. I couldn't see myself being happy about my DH bringing this up as an option for us but I guess everyone has their own preferences.
 
At this particular time in my life, I feel ready to move on from monogamy though. I can see that it would be the wrong path for me in the years ahead.

Some people have asked if I’m bored with my current relationship situation. That’s an overly simplistic way of looking at it, but overall that’s reasonably accurate.
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wow. how does one respond to something like this. . . (guess that's why she's focusing on losing 50 lbs). . . I mean, why get married?
 
Radianthealth said:
I can't figure out if I am resistent to this because of social conditioning or what.
It just doesn't stick with me like some other unconventional practices. I couldn't see myself being happy about my DH bringing this up as an option for us but I guess everyone has their own preferences.
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I think so.

I have read his blog on and off before. So I am familar w/ him.

What I am gathering is that he lives a life of truth and honesty. He also believes in not hurting anyone or anything..ie, he does not eat living plants/animals.

So I am gathering he has made a life decision because he has grown and evolved and perhaps his wife has not...ie wife carrying excess 50lbs,...hard to be honest and live a life of truth when you are carrying that kind of weight.

My anaysis is that is he has grown and has decide to honestly tell the truth to everyone,.... wife, kids, public about his lifestyle choice.

It may seem strange. I understand.

As our grandmothers have said,...Keep living and things have a way of revealing themselves.

I understand his choices.
 
Sly said:
wow. how does one respond to something like this. . . (guess that's why she's focusing on losing 50 lbs). . . I mean, why get married?
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As he said, marriage made sense at the time, but as he has evolved, he would not make the same choice.

I appreciate his honesty.
 
Sly said:
wow. how does one respond to something like this. . . (guess that's why she's focusing on losing 50 lbs). . . I mean, why get married?
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A lot of the stuff in that blog entry rubbed me the wrong way including that quote...as a wife, I don't wanna hear that mess...and if that is how you feel I would be more likely to let you go then to start foolin with other people.

I know my heart wouldn't be into it and if I did do it, I would probably try to get revenge and/or make you jealous:nono:...I wouldn't want to stoop to that level(of playing games & hurting him because he hurt me).

I don't want to make assumptions about their relationship but I just put myself in her shoes and I would not be a happy camper:ohwell:

ETA: I see that this bothers me because I am making the assumption that his wife would react & feel the same way as I would about the situation...This is not necessarily true...
 
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Radianthealth said:
A lot of the stuff in that blog entry rubbed me the wrong way including that quote...as a wife, I don't wanna hear that mess...and if that is how you feel I would be more likely to let you go then to start foolin with other people.

I know my heart wouldn't be into it and if I did do it, I would probably try to get revenge and/or make you jealous:nono:...I wouldn't want to stoop to that level(of playing games & hurting him because he hurt me).

I don't want to make assumptions about their relationship but I just put myself in her shoes and I would not be a happy camper:ohwell:
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Think about it RH...Do you believe this is the first time his wife has been confronted w/ some of the desires he has wanted? My opinion is that she stopped listening.

The Polyamory thing is just a manifestion of perhaps not being heard and moving to that point.

Difficult to say for sure....

I have feeling, he has wanted a different kind of marriage and partnership for a long time.

Just my opinion.
 
SugarBaby said:
Think about it RH...Do you believe this is the first time his wife has been confronted w/ some of the desires he has wanted? My opinion is that she stopped listening.

The Polyamory thing is just a manifestion of perhaps not being heard and moving to that point.

Difficult to say for sure....

I have feeling, he has wanted a different kind of marriage and partnership for a long time.

Just my opinion.
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I agree 100%...he even mentioned that he would get to "travel" more with his other lovers

I am sure there are things about him that are lacking but does that mean that his wife should go find it in another lover...I guess so:look:

I talked about this in another thread but there seems to be pressure from both sides(men wanting women to be a certain way and women wanting men to be a certain way) ...where do you draw the line

It also could be a load off her shoulders because she won't have to worry about doing things that she doesn't enjoy.
 
My point is that when someone is trying to live a life of truth. That is so powerful and if you are his life partner. You better be on the same quest.

I imagine his wife stop satisfying that "Wow!!!" factor.

I don't know for sure, but I imagine, he is having a inner fight w/ honoring his marriage vows while at the same time satisfying his own desires.

Thats why we as women in partnerships we need to be the most interesting person our partner could ever find....notice I did not say the prettiest, thinniest, etc.

Somtimes a 20year marriage may seem like prison if the person is not growing too.
 
SugarBaby said:
My point is that when someone is trying to live a life of truth. That is so powerful and if you are his life partner. You better be on the same quest.

I imagine his wife stop satisfying that "Wow!!!" factor.

I don't know for sure, but I imagine, he is having a inner fight w/ honoring his marriage vows while at the same time satisfying his own desires.

Thats why we as women in partnerships we need to be the most interesting person our partner could ever find....notice I did not say the prettiest, thinniest, etc.

Somtimes a 20year marriage may seem like prison if the person is not growing too.
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Wonderfully stated...ITA!:yep:
 
Radianthealth said:
I agree 100%...he even mentioned that he would get to "travel" more with his other lovers

I am sure there are things about him that are lacking but does that mean that his wife should go find it in another lover...I guess so:look:
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Sometimes when damage has been done...ie not listening for "X" amount of years we are left with less choices.

If she had moved her feet early on, Perhaps he would not have moved to the decision to travel and meet other lovers.

The wife could have been one of the other lovers while traveling and perhaps could have done some "freaky things" to satisy that lust he was desiring.

Hard to say, but when you have been in a 20 year marriage you gotta keep the trick bag fully loaded...I understand.


Trick bag can not be just sexually stimulating, but mental, spiritual, anything that is satisfying to him that moves his spirit.

ETA: I shouldn't have used the word trick bag since I think that gives a connotation of being something you are not...so I should say.... Your personality should bring all those things.
 
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I will NEVER do this and do NOT believe in it.

To each his own I guess, but this is a sad way to try to "save" your marriage. If you need to resort to sleeping with a bunch of strangers to "spice" up your life, then the marriage is OVER in my opinion.
 
Radianthealth said:
I found these articles interesting. I have been reading his blog and posting on his forum for about two years now. I don't always agree with what he has to say but I find it interesting how resistant I am to this idea despite his supporting arguments.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2009/01/polyamory/

The excerpt that stung the most:

"In contrast to monogamy, I think marriage is an unnecessary legal institution that does more harm than good.
I got married to Erin when I was 26 years old. We met when I was 22. If I had it to do all over again, knowing what I now know, I wouldn’t have gotten married.":sad:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2009/01/conscious-sexuality/

I also find it interesting that his wife's primary goal in 2009 is to loose 50 pounds...
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:blush::blush::blush:

DAM! Why is he SAYING THIS PUBLICLY???!?!!!! And, you DO know his wife runs the site with him? So she's read that. WOW! I don't like that. It wasn't necessary to prove whatever point he's trying to make. :nono: Dam. I haven't even read the article but I am sad for her and :mad: @ him. MEN! The NERVE!!!! :mad:
 
You know, I realize that everyone has different beliefs about things, and if Steve feels this way about polyamory, I can't say that his feelings are wrong. They are what they are.

BUT... I have a problem with him "deciding" this after being in a marriage for a certain period of time and then bringing kids into his life. Also, I hate when folks try to act like they're somehow more "evolved" or on some higher plane of thinking because they want to have multiple partners and think that because marriage has legal aspects, it's somehow "restricting," and for "restricted people."

I prefer that folks like this never get married, have a common-law type relationship and then make their own rules as they go along. If you don't like the idea of marriage, then don't get married... and if you change your ideas about marriage along the way then get divorced and live out your new desired lifestyle, but don't try to act like you're somehow more enlightened than everyone else because of your choice.

And don't stick around to get certain benefits of marriage, but then step out for other "benefits" you feel you're missing because you're married. Just divorce and do your thing!
 
Bunny77 said:
You know, I realize that everyone has different beliefs about things, and if Steve feels this way about polyamory, I can't say that his feelings are wrong. They are what they are.

BUT... I have a problem with him "deciding" this after being in a marriage for a certain period of time and then bringing kids into his life. Also, I hate when folks try to act like they're somehow more "evolved" or on some higher plane of thinking because they want to have multiple partners and think that because marriage has legal aspects, it's somehow "restricting," and for "restricted people."

I prefer that folks like this never get married, have a common-law type relationship and then make their own rules as they go along. If you don't like the idea of marriage, then don't get married... and if you change your ideas about marriage along the way then get divorced and live out your new desired lifestyle, but don't try to act like you're somehow more enlightened than everyone else because of your choice.

And don't stick around to get certain benefits of marriage, but then step out for other "benefits" you feel you're missing because you're married. Just divorce and do your thing!
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THANK YOU! Something being different from the norm does not make it better or higher thinking. I have noticed this attitude in a lot of people, but especially in atheists, people in alternative religions, and polygamous people. It sounds more ridiculous every time I hear it. I think that's it's a way of making yourself feel better about the fact that most people don't agree with your choices. :ohwell:
 
I can feel him on the polyamory article and the sex article.....

Me personally for myself I had a major choice to make when I was 21 that involved choosing a path of marriage and family and in my heart I knew of unhappiness because the whole energy I was in, the man, the circumstances everything was all WRONG....I cried and cried for days on end because I knew the choice I ultimately decided would change my life and path in one way or the other....one choice would go down the "socially correct" path that I knew in my heart was not the right one for me specifically, but would be "great" and "picture perfect" for society on the outside looking in.....and I even tried to argue what my what my heart was telling me.....but it would of been stifling, restrictive, confining and trapped for me and if im not free, allowing, flowing and loving neither will anybody around me or involved with me be.....I chose in the end to follow my heart and do what I knew was best for me.......

the ways and the speed I have grown in the past 11 years after making that decision and other major decisions that were a toss up of live for societal approval or live for yourself circumstances....the relationships I have engaged in with men and women (not on sexual levels with women and not even on sexual levels with alot of men, but connections with them and learning about myself thru them that have helped me out tremendously by just being more open to experiencing what most people are afraid to do)

I have had to deal with causing alot of hurt and pain to others, esp men that have made me feel bad in the past because who I was mesmerized them and at the same time scared them to death that they felt they had to "lock me down", throwing engagement rings at me and I knew they were doing it out of fear and not love....., and the best relationships I have with the men close to me in my life are the ones who love me and allow me to be me, and me likes to experience, associate and be intimately involved on different levels with different people.....I think now where Im at Im more open to monogomy because I feel Im at a point now where I could be with somebody and enjoy them and feel like a soulmate to them vs a cellmate...with the right person of course...and even still be with them as long as our love lasts and we both consciously choose to be with each other and feel we are both growing and thriving..not feeling stifled and stuck...and thats because I did choose to experience different people,relationships sexual and non sexual to really get to know myself, embrace myself, open up myself, be myself, love myself, ...where Im at today has alot to do with how and who I have experienced over the years in my life, and I know going any other route I would nowhere near be the woman I am today

I do feel where he is coming from and it takes alot of courage to be open about true feelings and desires and be able to take the backlash...believe me i know firsthand, its not fun, its not easy, it doesn't feel good and its way easier to succumb to fear and dillude yourself than to have the courage to be free, be yourself, and be honest
 
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Exaxtly, they are his feelings and much respect for him being able to articulate them.

I understand people changing their mind and making a different decision for themselves. I appreciate the ability of someone confronting themselves and honesting telling the truth about it. Perhaps his comittment should have be different because children were involved. I agree. I am not his judge or jury. I used the words of "evolved", he didn't. So he may not feel himself evolved.

Unfortunately if some of our experience is not his, it is difficult to sometimes see the logic in someone's else choice.

Marriage maybe not limiting to you, if you have not been married longterm; It is very individual. A Bad marriage or restrictive marriage has individual dynamics that NOBODY knows and are so individual.

I think he said, he would not make the same choice of marriage if given the choice now. I don't think he acting more enlightened, I think he has a blog and many people respect his thoughts on many issues. As he keeps saying, it may not be in agreement for anyone else, but him.


The way I read his comments, he is struggling with this very issue.



ETA: I tried to put my comments in between Bunny's and it didn't work. I don't know how to do the color quote think.
 
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tiara76 said:
I can feel him on the polyamory article and the sex article.....

Me personally for myself I had a major choice to make when I was 21 that involved choosing a path of marriage and family and in my heart I knew of unhappiness because the whole energy I was in, the man, the circumstances everything was all WRONG....I cried and cried for days on end because I knew the choice I ultimately decided would change my life and path in one way or the other....one choice would go down the "socially correct" path that I knew in my heart was not the right one for me specifically, but would be "great" and "picture perfect" for society on the outside looking in.....and I even tried to argue what my what my heart was telling me.....but it would of been stifling, restrictive, confining and trapped for me and if im not free, allowing, flowing and loving neither will anybody around me or involved with me be.....I chose in the end to follow my heart and do what I knew was best for me.......

the ways and the speed I have grown in the past 11 years after making that decision and other major decisions that were a toss up of live for societal approval or live for yourself circumstances....the relationships I have engaged in with men and women (not on sexual levels with women and not even on sexual levels with alot of men, but connections with them and learning about myself thru them that have helped me out tremendously by just being more open to experiencing what most people are afraid to do)

I have had to deal with causing alot of hurt and pain to others, esp men that have made me feel bad in the past because who I was mesmerized them and at the same time scared them to death that they felt they had to "lock me down", throwing engagement rings at me and I knew they were doing it out of fear and not love....., and the best relationships I have with the men close to me in my life are the ones who love me and allow me to be me, and me likes to experience, associate and be intimately involved on different levels with different people.....I think now where Im at Im more open to monogomy because I feel Im at a point now where I could be with somebody and enjoy them and feel like a soulmate to them vs a cellmate...with the right person of course...and even still be with them as long as our love lasts and we both consciously choose to be with each other and feel we are both growing and thriving..not feeling stifled and stuck...and thats because I did choose to experience different people,relationships sexual and non sexual to really get to know myself, embrace myself, open up myself, be myself, love myself, ...where Im at today has alot to do with how and who I have experienced over the years in my life, and I know going any other route I would nowhere near be the woman I am today

I do feel where he is coming from and it takes alot of courage to be open about true feelings and desires and be able to take the backlash...believe me i know firsthand, its not fun, its not easy, it doesn't feel good and its way easier to succumb to fear and dillude yourself than to have the courage to be free, be yourself, and be honest
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I So agree, it is his truth. If we disagree, its ok. Thats the hard part about telling the truth, people will come out to tell you their truth or how your truth should mimick theirs.

It is his.
 
jada1111 said:
I will NEVER do this and do NOT believe in it.

To each his own I guess, but this is a sad way to try to "save" your marriage. If you need to resort to sleeping with a bunch of strangers to "spice" up your life, then the marriage is OVER in my opinion.
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He didn't say that and I don't believe he implied for his wife to either.

Just my opinion.
 
Hi SugarBaby! I'll respond to one point and try to get the quote thingy going right.


I understand people changing their mind and making a different decision for themselves. I appreciate the ability someone confronting themselves and honesting telling the truth about it. Perhaps his comittment should have be different because children were involved. I agree. I am not his judge or jury. I used the words of "evolved", he didn't. So he may not feel himself evolved.

Unfortunately if some of our experience is not his, it is difficult to sometimes see the logic in someone's else choice.

Marriage maybe not limiting to you, if you have not been married longterm; It is very individual. A Bad marriage or restrictive marriage has individual dynamics that NOBODY knows and are so individual.
Click to expand...

My bad on the evolved thing... he did use the term "conscious" though and that rubbed me the wrong way.

I dunno... I'm not in his shoes, so I can't understand what's going through his mind and heart, but I've always been a believer in the fact that when you make choices and bring other people into your choices (i.e. kids), then you give up a lot of the right to change your mind. Life isn't always a pleasure garden, and I think that one can choose to be happy or be unhappy. Sometimes, you need to put your own desires on the backburner IF you have already committed yourself to a situation in which you have made a choice that affects others. I don't know how his wife feels about this... if it was me in her shoes, I'd probably ask for a divorce.


Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. My issue -- which seems to be Steve's as well -- is not so much that he believes in polyamory, but that he wants to disrupt something he helped to create because he feels differently about some things now.
 
Bunny77 said:
Hi SugarBaby! I'll respond to one point and try to get the quote thingy going right.




My bad on the evolved thing... he did use the term "conscious" though and that rubbed me the wrong way.

I dunno... I'm not in his shoes, so I can't understand what's going through his mind and heart, but I've always been a believer in the fact that when you make choices and bring other people into your choices (i.e. kids), then you give up a lot of the right to change your mind. Life isn't always a pleasure garden, and I think that one can choose to be happy or be unhappy. Sometimes, you need to put your own desires on the backburner IF you have already committed yourself to a situation in which you have made a choice that affects others. I don't know how his wife feels about this... if it was me in her shoes, I'd probably ask for a divorce.


Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. My issue -- which seems to be Steve's as well -- is not so much that he believes in polyamory, but that he wants to disrupt something he helped to create because he feels differently about some things now.
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I did go back and correct that mess I made w/ the quote thingy.


Yes, I very much agree. When your choice is affecting others, especially the children, then perhaps the greater good (keeping your children happy) should outweigh your personal benefit. I do agree w/ that.


Bunny, I always enjoy your posts so much.
 
SugarBaby said:
I did go back and correct that mess I made w/ the quote thingy.


Yes, I very much agree. When your choice is affecting others, especially the children, then perhaps the greater good (keeping your children happy) should outweigh your personal benefit. I do agree w/ that.


Bunny, I always enjoy your posts so much.
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Thank you! :)

As for Steve, I'd have no problem with him waiting for his children to leave the house and then working with his wife on some sort of arrangement that truly works for both of them -- whether "open" marriage or divorce -- so that he can be happy.

So I guess I'm agreeing with Tiara in a way... she made a choice that was best for her before involving anyone else. I know everyone doesn't have that kind of foresight, but if we lived in a world of rampant "take-backs," (in whatever realm -- not just love) I don't think we could survive for too long!
 
Bunny77 said:
Thank you! :)

As for Steve, I'd have no problem with him waiting for his children to leave the house and then working with his wife on some sort of arrangement that truly works for both of them -- whether "open" marriage or divorce -- so that he can be happy.

So I guess I'm agreeing with Tiara in a way... she made a choice that was best for her before involving anyone else. I know everyone doesn't have that kind of foresight, but if we lived in a world of rampant "take-backs," (in whatever realm -- not just love) I don't think we could survive for too long![/QUOTE]

Well, Tiara said, she did hurt many along the path of her evolvement in the process. (no judgement, just restating her words)

I believe sometimes the hurt however unintentional can provide for our reflective and growing process. Hence I think that is why, Steve is struggling. (my opinion)

I agree, life can't be "take-backs" but I do think that in life we are allowed to go back and reassess our choices and perhaps choose better paths.

Thats why learning is so important. I don't have the best answer when children are involved. Perhaps your answer was best, to wait until the children are out of the house.
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Bunny77 said:
Thank you! :)

As for Steve, I'd have no problem with him waiting for his children to leave the house and then working with his wife on some sort of arrangement that truly works for both of them -- whether "open" marriage or divorce -- so that he can be happy.

So I guess I'm agreeing with Tiara in a way... she made a choice that was best for her before involving anyone else. I know everyone doesn't have that kind of foresight, but if we lived in a world of rampant "take-backs," (in whatever realm -- not just love) I don't think we could survive for too long!
Click to expand...

my situation I did alot of reflecting, thinking and foreseeing...I knew from the present moment it wasn't gonna be a good look for anybody involved for me to go the other route no matter how many other people thought it would have been the "right" thing to do....but I think for me its because I already knew where I was wasn't the right place for me, and I could see it leading to something I knew I didnt want...some people it is the right place at the present time for whatever reason or another and things and circumstances happen where minds, feelings, thoughts, etc change and what served you once before doesn't serve your well being anymore and sometimes other people can get caught up......for every situation and people involved things are different and different things are learned.....his kids may end up in a better place rather a than a worse place because of his honesty and openess, I know for a fact kids aren't exposed to that and easily fall into closed off and dishonest mindsets while it is normal in this day and age it isn't natural and it really does stifle the human growth process....I know for me personally, my dad asked me when I was around 10 or 11 if I was upset that him and my mom didnt get married and I was like...why...that would of been a diaster...why front really, I can tell ya'll relationship and what it is so pretending its something its really not is kind of silly to me, and trying to force something that isnt there is even worse...

There is no definite right or wrong outcome because we are not the people involved and everybody involved will receive a blessing or a disguised one, but I do know truth and honesty over suppression and dillusion in my book are what makes and grows people, because they are aspects of love while the other is aspects of fear......and most of us easily live in fear, its hard to live in truth

eta....yes I did hurt people along the way as I grew more and more truthful with myself and others..however I have learned that the people I purposely decieved are the ones who carry the pain and the ones I hurt being honest are the ones who let go of the hurt and we had stronger relationships with each other on different levels
 
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I had a nice comment prepared with quotes from the article and all. But, this internet connection messed up.

So....for all of those who have read the article...despite your views of being open, being evolved, honoring self and the like...how do you feel about the fact that he has not protected his wife's honor? He clearly states in the article that "he goofed" when he decided to marry her. And, it wasn't his "best decision making time". While all of that may be true...what purpose does it serve to share that with the world? How must his wife feel and why wouldn't he protect her standing by finding another way to convey that he felt marriage wasn't right for him?

Did anyone ever consider the real reasons why he would need to use himself as the example for polyamory on this site? Could it be that he's sexing some of the members on the site? And, this is a way to resolve all of that? I mean, writing an article about polyamory to a group of people who respect and trust you can take a lot of forms. It doesn't have to mention your own personal preferences one way or the other. But he did.

I just find it gratuitous and disrespectful to his wife and children. He could have done sooo much better in the way he shared this with the world. Especially being someone so "evolved" and all.
 
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