Put a Ring on It

[phynestone]

LuckiestDestiny-

Wouldn't it be better to state your intentions through your actions than verbally? Doesn't it seem that men are more likely to listen that way vs. through words? I do hear every word you are saying.

 

[MissJ]

Here's another quote from a man that I thought was pretty good, not a quote from a woman...




Anyone know what an ONS relationship is?

one night stand

 

[MissJ]

I would have to be the lone dissenter

I am sure people will probably say this is why Jewelle is not married but I do not subscribe to this type of thinking, coming from a man or anyone. This is how men have controlled our behavior. I would not even be attracted to a guy who thinks this way

I guess if it is the way to achieve a goal than go for it and I am not knocking anyone who agrees but it is certainly not for me

JMO

The title of the thread is not "This is Why You are Single." And the person who shared most of the stuff I posted is a woman, who I would guess is in her 40s or 50s and recently married. I assume she's speaking from experience.

Many women have wondered alloud why men would be with one woman for years, not marry her, and then marry another woman within six months. This woman has given us an answer to this phenomenon.

I posted this here, because I have seen women on this board post about being in a relationship with a man for years with no wedding in sight. Some even have kids by the man. Some have even posted that the man straight up told them that they are not what he wants for the rest of his life and still stay with the man. I hope this post will help them to make an informed decision regarding the man.

As for me, I have never been in the situation posted about, but I can take something from it. As a woman who wants to be married in the near future, I will know to ask, "Where is this going?"; "What are you looking for?"; "Do you want to get married in the very near future?"; etc. I know now that if a man is comfortable with you, he will stay with you for a long time, even though he has no intentions of taking the relationship to the next level. I hope this post can help all the single ladies who want to get married find a man who will put a ring on it.

 

[Filmatic]

LuckiestDestiny-

Wouldn't it be better to state your intentions through your actions than verbally? Doesn't it seem that men are more likely to listen that way vs. through words? I do hear every word you are saying.

I understand her. My words are a precursor to my actions. I don't want anyone to say I didn't tell them how I felt or they don't understand so it's put on the table matter of factly.

If I only want a dude for a certain reason I tell him before anything goes down. I ask men upfront what they are a looking for. If it doesn't meet my expectations I move on.

 

[JewelleNY]

Tell us more...(spill it)

haha!

No, I guess I am just the non-traditional oddball on this board

I think this is great for its intended target

I don't want to take this thread off topic with a long feminist thesis

Basically it allows men to have their fun and games and keeps women on their toes, nothing new here

 

[JewelleNY]

The title of the thread is not "This is Why You are Single." And the person who shared most of the stuff I posted is a woman, who I would guess is in her 40s or 50s and recently married. I assume she's speaking from experience.

Many women have wondered alloud why men would be with one woman for years, not marry her, and then marry another woman within six months. This woman has given us an answer to this phenomenon.

I posted this here, because I have seen women on this board post about being in a relationship with a man for years with no wedding in sight. Some even have kids by the man. Some have even posted that the man straight up told them that they are not what he wants for the rest of his life and still stay with the man. I hope this post will help them to make an informed decision regarding the man.


As for me, I have never been in the situation posted about, but I can take something from it. As a woman who wants to be married in the near future, I will know to ask, "Where is this going?"; "What are you looking for?"; "Do you want to get married in the very near future?"; etc. I know now that if a man is comfortable with you, he will stay with you for a long time, even though he has no intentions of taking the relationship to the next level. I hope this post can help all the single ladies who want to get married find a man who will put a ring on it.

I stated it was my opinion and I understand the purpose totally I think it should be quite helpful to many here

 

[BroadstreetBully]

Jewelle, you can't do that! Get in here and share your opinion! I'm curious and interested in all viewpoints on this subject.

 

[PopLife]

Interesting how almost all of these points refer back to the fact that so long as a woman is sleeping with a man, he will lie, deflect, obfuscate, make empty promises, etc. to keep his sexual status quo in order. It doesn't say as long as a man enjoys her companionship or their emotional connection. Has anyone known a situation where a woman wasn't sleeping with a man, and he still insincerely dragged things on?

Why do we insist on trying to play the game like a man instead of being true to our feminine values, goals and ideals?

Yes, can someone please touch on this...

I have found myself in this situation before. No one really talks about these types of situations. It's always don't give it up and he will respect and commit to you.

What do you do when your doing all the right/respectful things, not giving it up and he still won't commit, is it still something about YOU???

 

[Bunny77]

Yes, can someone please touch on this...

I have found myself in this situation before. No one really talks about these types of situations. It's always don't give it up and he will respect and commit to you.

What do you do when your doing all the right/respectful things, not giving it up and he still won't commit, is it still something about YOU???

Nicola brought up an interesting point...

My opinion: I don't think at all that sex will make a guy automatically drag you along and not commit/propose/etc. There's way too many married folks out there who can tell you as much, and men can and do still "respect" women that they're sleeping with.

BUT, I think Nicola's point is that if the man is getting his sexual needs met, he would probably be more likely to drag along a woman he has no plans to commit to by doing just enough to be a decent boyfriend. I don't think most men with no intention of committing are going to stick around for long if they know they won't get sex out of the deal. So that's why a lot of folks suggest that women at least wait a while before sleeping with a man -- not to get him to "respect you more," but to weed out the dudes who aren't necessarily looking for a commitment.

As for PopLife's question: I don't think there's anything about YOU (general you) that makes a man not commit, but I think perhaps women who find themselves in this situation a lot are missing some early cues/clues about these dudes. I know with my last boyfriend, he said he was on the same page about dating for marriage, but then six months later, he busted out that he couldn't see himself ready for marriage for three years!!

That ended that!

Now, I didn't do anything wrong, per se, and I was smart in ending it. But, I should have looked harder at the big picture. Here's a 38-year-old man with a spotty work history (he was always employed, but never found a career he liked... he was always kind of a wanderer/free spirit). So finally he realizes he needs to be more stable and went to pursue a Master's degree. Some of these things should have been red flags to look more closely and see if this man was even remotely ready to be thinking about marriage. Just because he SAID he was interested in marriage and family didn't mean he was ready any time soon!

If you are meeting men in "transition," (going back to school, job hunting, recently divorced, new baby, baby mama drama, etc.) and you want to get married, leave these dudes alone. They could be perfectly fine dudes -- well, maybe not the one with the new baby -- but they ain't ready. They might even think they're ready, but they're not. So it's up to YOU to "vet" them and then choose wisely from the start about whom you will get involved with!

 

[JFemme]

Yes, can someone please touch on this...

nicola.kirwan Interesting how almost all of these points refer back to the fact that so long as a woman is sleeping with a man, he will lie, deflect, obfuscate, make empty promises, etc. to keep his sexual status quo in order. It doesn't say as long as a man enjoys her companionship or their emotional connection. Has anyone known a situation where a woman wasn't sleeping with a man, and he still insincerely dragged things on?

Why do we insist on trying to play the game like a man instead of being true to our feminine values, goals and ideals?

Yes, I'm all ears....

 

[JFemme]

haha!

No, I guess I am just the non-traditional oddball on this board

I think this is great for its intended target

I don't want to take this thread off topic with a long feminist thesis

Basically it allows men to have their fun and games and keeps women on their toes, nothing new here

girl get in here....

I wants to know how you get that men are having their fun....outta those AM conversations..........erplexed

 

[luckiestdestiny]

LuckiestDestiny-

Wouldn't it be better to state your intentions through your actions than verbally? Doesn't it seem that men are more likely to listen that way vs. through words? I do hear every word you are saying.

Well I am stating my intention through my actions. I'm not having sex until I'm married. That's one action. That's MY thing. Not something I'm recommending to others but I know that filters guys out.
I realize there's another type of guy that attracts but I know how to sniff them out because I've had enough experience with the guy who wants the inexperienced girl as he runs around with a million people. That type instantly gets filtered. But that leaves another type who is really genuinely interested in being with ME. A

Guys know from the moment they hear that that if they want to be my boyfriend, they aren't getting any. They're in a serious mindset if they go forward because they know this isn't a relationship to just have sex and play house until the next person comes along. They have to end up connecting with me on a deeper level. I think once a guy does that it's easier to be honest with them. I think guys are used to running, like society tells them to run away from commitment. But I do believe when they connect with someone it's different. There is of course non commital guy but I've already ran him off when he says he wouldn't wait for a woman and I say bye bye now! So I've already filtered out noncommital guys from the beginning. And of course any guy who HATES marriage, or doesn't want marriage for a million years won't be interested in a girl whose waiting till they're married to have sex. I'm the least interesting lady ever to them. Which is fine by me because they are instantly filtered.

Of the guys interested in a serious commitment: Faced with a girl who won't play that b.s game they usually are shocked in a good way. For instance I tell them I want to get married (in a playful but serious way), but that doesn't mean it will be them. That usually intrigues them. It's true. I mean I'm not anxious to get a ring on it, or I would've had that opportunity before.

I'm wanting a ring on it with the right person. So they are just auditioning. And I've jokingly seriously said that to someone before. If a guy stays on at this point (which I've never had one turn away when you're the girl who is confident in your decision, and they know that they're just auditioning) then they are there to connect with you in a deeper way. They are in a serious mode already. I think the get married thing freaks a guy out, but that's only IF it wasn't followed by the whole but that doesn't mean to just "any" guy thing. So then that defense mechanism fades away. Because guys are trained to think every girl wants to marry them. So their ego is bruised a little, and they have to step back and think who is this lady? What does she mean it might not be me? But I thought that's what women want? And then they come at the relationship from a ego (less) standpoint because they can't roll with that assumption that I'm waiting with baited breathe for THEM. And then they usually know because my facebook pming and sometimes emails or a phone message will be from exes trying to get back with me that I've turned down (proposal). These are not people I email or call so I'll just delete it. But if my SO's around it'll be like: whose that? And I'm just like oh that's so and so.... And they know I've been proposed to before so I'm intriguing to them because I won't just marry just any guy. This takes away the male belief fallacy that women are running after THEM and will commit to just any guy that asks them. I am NOT that woman. I will also say there's the type of guy that's ready to settle down already, but even he isn't going to be interested in a desperate woman. He's going to want a woman that is selective in who she wants to be with. That she isn't just going to say yes cause he's a MAN but because she loves him. Either guy though, I feel will step up and be interested because their defense mechanism doesn't go up with "desperate woman!".
​

I'm like a mix of traditional and nontraditional: I want to get married, but I'm not desperate to, I'm patient to find the right one. I stress patience in a different way: I'm not patient to have a relationship for years with one guy, but I'm patient enough to go through as many guys as necessary to find the love of my life and that includes cutting off those who do not meet that when necessary.

I stress that I don't do this in a serious way. It's not a conversation with a serious stare down way and intensity. Just you're together, he's your boyfriend (, and you're having a conversation...like month two or three. The guy knows your feeling on that subject and then it's on to something else.

They usually present a moment themselves. They'll ask if I want to get married, or some variation. Or even a more cock one like, For instance GUY: If we were married, but don't get excited, I'm just saying IF" and I'll laugh and say "Oh really? What makes you think it'll be you? I'm looking for the RIGHT guy and I don't know if that's you or not." And then they'll be like "Wait a minute? What's wrong with me?" and I'll say "nothing, but that doesn't mean we're RIGHT for each other. We'll see. But I do know that there's a time when it should be obvious and if it's not, we should move on." To which they'll say "Really...how long is that" and I'll go into the whole if I'm not getting the vibe that we should move on to the next step after a year or so then it's a wrap and that's IF I believe we should move on. Because just because a guy thinks we should get married, doesn't make it necessarily so. It's about BOTH people feeling it's right. And I just take things day by day and see how it goes.

This usually leaves them in deep thought and then I'm on to another subject.

 

[ambergirl]

I would have to be the lone dissenter

I am sure people will probably say this is why Jewelle is not married but I do not subscribe to this type of thinking, coming from a man or anyone. This is how men have controlled our behavior. I would not even be attracted to a guy who thinks this way

I guess if it is the way to achieve a goal than go for it and I am not knocking anyone who agrees but it is certainly not for me
JMO

You're not alone girl....That whole series of posts just made me because I've seen it in about a hundred different forms. Not knocking anybody making getting married and having kids the focal point of their youth but not my bag of tricks.

 

[MissJ]

I know with my last boyfriend, he said he was on the same page about dating for marriage, but then six months later, he busted out that he couldn't see himself ready for marriage for three years!!

That ended that!

I was going to ask you about that. I remember you saying that you two were on the same page as far as marriage was concerned and then later you realized that you two weren't. Do you feel like he lead you on, or you misinterpreted his intent to get married? How was this guy's behavior different than your fiance's through the first six months.

 

[Bunny77]

I was going to ask you about that. I remember you saying that you two were on the same page as far as marriage was concerned and then later you realized that you two weren't. Do you feel like he lead you on, or you misinterpreted his intent to get married? How was this guy's behavior different than your fiance's through the first six months.

Oooh, that's a good question! You're making me think!!!

Let's see... I don't think the ex-BF led me on... he was a lot of things, but a con artist didn't seem to be one of them. He was, however, someone who acted a lot on feelings instead of reason, so he could feel 100% secure about something one day, and 100% insecure about the same thing the next day.

So when we met, he said our first date was the best first date he'd had. He hadn't been in a relationship in five years, so I think he was very eager to get into a relationship and probably did the whole, "Oh yeah, I could definitely see us married one day," thing that a lot of young-and-in-luuuuv people do. Except he wasn't that young.

Anyway, I had a semi-clue about setting expectations but didn't fully understand my own advice! So him saying that he wanted to be exclusive after the first month and that he desired marriage was good enough for me. I also met his family members at his urging. I put aside the concerns I had about his financial status, saying that it was good that he was going to get his Master's (he was enrolled, etc., so it wasn't just talk).

What started to happen though was as I talked of marriage freely and naturally (i.e. "I'm trying to pay off my credit cards because I don't want to bring debt into a marriage), I think he finally began to realize the seriousness that my statements entailed and he froze. He was not ready in the timeline that I had in my mind -- I made the "I don't plan to be anyone's girlfriend for years" statement many times. As he began to get busier with his classes and felt the financial crunch of working part-time, he said he realized he was not in a position to be a provider to anyone and he knew that's what I expected. He also went to counseling and his therapist said that we wanted totally different things. I wanted to be a wife and mother and he honestly was not looking to be a husband and father at that time.

In the last two months of the relationship, there seemed to be a lot more silence and hesitation when we talked about the future, and it was mostly ME doing the talking.

So... FH... well, at six months, HE brought up the marriage discussion. But even before that, he mentioned early on that he had spent so much time going to school and building a career that he stayed single longer than expected, and that he really wanted to marry and have a family. I found that most marriage discussions were initiated by HIM... and his parents lived out of the state, so he made arrangements for me to fly to meet them.

There were a lot of other things too, but FH, unlike the ex, was actively looking for a wife. The ex was dating and was kind of just seeing what might unfold and he was surprised that our dates turned out so well and we just fell into a relationship. FH was not just trying to find women to date.

Hope that makes sense!

 

[MissYocairis]

girl get in here....

I wants to know how you get that men are having their fun....outta those AM conversations..........erplexed

right! Jewelle is being coy. We need to know more!

 

[LunadeMiel]

I've been in both situations so I definitely agree with everything said in that thread. Before FH, I dated someone for a little over 6 years. We started dating while I was still in high school and all through college. After graduating I made it clear to him that I would not continue to be his girlfriend for more than 2 years. Initially, he made it clear that he understood what my expectations were. About 1 year in (1 year after I graduated) his story began to change. Long story short I had to cut my losess. In hindsight, I think the ex mad it pretty clear to me that he was not ready for marriage (or ready to marry me ) I allowed myself to be strung along and I ignored the signs.

FH on the other hand made it very clear from the beginning what his intentions were. We weren't dating for two months and he asked my mother for my hand. I didn't have to push any issue, or throw hints.

Guys will let you know where they stand. It's up to us to pay attention and act accordingly.

 

[MissJ]

You're not alone girl....That whole series of posts just made me because I've seen it in about a hundred different forms. Not knocking anybody making getting married and having kids the focal point of their youth but not my bag of tricks.

If a woman does not have the children she wants in her youth, then when? Marriage is a part of it, because who wants to be a baby mama?

 

[luckiestdestiny]

I definitely agree with the throwing hints thing said a couple posts above. A guy will tell you where he stands IMO. But if I'm asked, which inevitably comes up because guys will bring up the marriage thing (at least they have with me), I will tell the truth. I don't think that's bringing something up or throwing hints. I say my piece and move on with my life. I don't say oh doesn't that ring look nice? Wow a wedding dress...uhm...so what do you feel about stuff like that. Or oh look, so and so just proposed hint hint lol! I have always had that moment when a guy asks what do I feel about marriage, and do I want to get married. In fact my SO brought a magazine over to me when I was buying stuff in Barnes and Noble this past weekend, pointed and asked if I liked a ring's style. That was all him.

But if a guy says what do you feel about marriage are you ready to settle down? I'll say yes with the right person of course. I've never had a guy NOT ask about marriage. I don't really have to bring it up because they do. So then I just casually mention how I feel. I do it casually because I don't want to harp on it. It's not necessary to have this long dramatic discussion. Because I'm just trying to figure out if I want to take that step too. I'm not assuming he's the one yet in that beginning stage /

If he fits into my future great, if not I make room for someone else. I haven't really been actively seeking a husband, because I didn't want to get married while young. And I didn't want to get married just for the sake of being married. So that's another reason I mention this stuff casually. I don't want the impression that I'm intensely set on the guy I'm dating because I'm not until...I am. Which means there has to be a moment when I realize I want this to go to another level. I didn't have that with my exes which is why I broke up. I've only felt that moment this time...but I'm still going to see how it unfolds...

 

[SHEANITPRO]

Great read! Thanks for posting OP!

 

[JustKiya]

You're not alone girl....That whole series of posts just made me because I've seen it in about a hundred different forms. Not knocking anybody making getting married and having kids the focal point of their youth but not my bag of tricks.

Interesting.

I don't see anything saying 'Make getting married and having kids the focal point of your youth'. I see a whole lot saying - If you WANT to get married and have kids, make sure that your youthful RELATIONSHIPS reflect that.

Huge difference between the two - and of course, you have to be honest with yourself about what you want out of life. If you are ambivalent about getting married or having kids - or know that it's just not for you - then, yeah, this advice would be -inducing.

If, however, you are certain that you do want to be married, and you do want to have kids - while you don't have to build your entire youth around the pursuit of that goal (and seriously, where was that even implied?? ) - you'd be downright stupid to allow yourself to waste long periods of time in intimate relationships that are not moving you towards that goal. Summer flings ain't nothing but fun.

I'm also very interested in hearing Jewelle's take on how this allows men to continue to control our behavior or keep us on our toes.

To me, it seems like the opposite - cooking, cleaning, screwing, taking care of a man who has not indicated interest in marrying you in an attempt to make him want to marry you seems more controlling and tiptoeish than not cooking, not cleaning, not taking care of, and only screwing him if you want to with a man who hasn't indicated he wants to marry you.

In fact, it seems like letting a man know from jump that you WANT to be married, and that he's got a short window of opportunity before you move on would shift the control into the woman's hands, and shift the weight of being on their 'best' behavior to the man. The woman already knows what she wants. Now he has to live up to it, or get left.

I'm pretty darn feminist myself, and it seems like the suggestions in these posts are all about women claiming some power in a relationship, and wielding that power to get what she eventually wants - a husband and some kids.

 

[Poohbear]

Nicola brought up an interesting point...

My opinion: I don't think at all that sex will make a guy automatically drag you along and not commit/propose/etc. There's way too many married folks out there who can tell you as much, and men can and do still "respect" women that they're sleeping with.

BUT, I think Nicola's point is that if the man is getting his sexual needs met, he would probably be more likely to drag along a woman he has no plans to commit to by doing just enough to be a decent boyfriend. I don't think most men with no intention of committing are going to stick around for long if they know they won't get sex out of the deal. So that's why a lot of folks suggest that women at least wait a while before sleeping with a man -- not to get him to "respect you more," but to weed out the dudes who aren't necessarily looking for a commitment.

As for PopLife's question: I don't think there's anything about YOU (general you) that makes a man not commit, but I think perhaps women who find themselves in this situation a lot are missing some early cues/clues about these dudes. I know with my last boyfriend, he said he was on the same page about dating for marriage, but then six months later, he busted out that he couldn't see himself ready for marriage for three years!!

That ended that!

Now, I didn't do anything wrong, per se, and I was smart in ending it. But, I should have looked harder at the big picture. Here's a 38-year-old man with a spotty work history (he was always employed, but never found a career he liked... he was always kind of a wanderer/free spirit). So finally he realizes he needs to be more stable and went to pursue a Master's degree. Some of these things should have been red flags to look more closely and see if this man was even remotely ready to be thinking about marriage. Just because he SAID he was interested in marriage and family didn't mean he was ready any time soon!

If you are meeting men in "transition," (going back to school, job hunting, recently divorced, new baby, baby mama drama, etc.) and you want to get married, leave these dudes alone. They could be perfectly fine dudes -- well, maybe not the one with the new baby -- but they ain't ready. They might even think they're ready, but they're not. So it's up to YOU to "vet" them and then choose wisely from the start about whom you will get involved with!

Perfect answer and good advice as well!!!

This tops cowgirl's comments and those other posters comments in that askmen.com Beyonce thread.

 

[JFemme]

^^^ wielding power in relationship & life...(JKiya)

guess we need a working definition of that..

(entirely new thread topic, I know)

 

[Poohbear]

Interesting.

I don't see anything saying 'Make getting married and having kids the focal point of your youth'. I see a whole lot saying - If you WANT to get married and have kids, make sure that your youthful RELATIONSHIPS reflect that.

Huge difference between the two - and of course, you have to be honest with yourself about what you want out of life. If you are ambivalent about getting married or having kids - or know that it's just not for you - then, yeah, this advice would be -inducing.

If, however, you are certain that you do want to be married, and you do want to have kids - while you don't have to build your entire youth around the pursuit of that goal (and seriously, where was that even implied?? ) - you'd be downright stupid to allow yourself to waste long periods of time in intimate relationships that are not moving you towards that goal. Summer flings ain't nothing but fun.

I'm also very interested in hearing Jewelle's take on how this allows men to continue to control our behavior or keep us on our toes.

To me, it seems like the opposite - cooking, cleaning, screwing, taking care of a man who has not indicated interest in marrying you in an attempt to make him want to marry you seems more controlling and tiptoeish than not cooking, not cleaning, not taking care of, and only screwing him if you want to with a man who hasn't indicated he wants to marry you.

In fact, it seems like letting a man know from jump that you WANT to be married, and that he's got a short window of opportunity before you move on would shift the control into the woman's hands, and shift the weight of being on their 'best' behavior to the man. The woman already knows what she wants. Now he has to live up to it, or get left.

I'm pretty darn feminist myself, and it seems like the suggestions in these posts are all about women claiming some power in a relationship, and wielding that power to get what she eventually wants - a husband and some kids.

Good response. I totally agree.

 

[JustKiya]

^^^ wielding power in relationship & life...(JKiya)

guess we need a working definition of that..

(entirely new thread topic, I know)

Hrm, I think it's pretty straightforward, actually. To me, that simply means that you have the ability and agency to get out of life & a relationship what you want - and if you aren't getting it, you have the ability and security in changing SOMETHING to get what you want.

To be powerless, in my mind, is to be a perpetual victim - utterly controlled by the choices that others make for you - or even worse, choosing to be controlled by the choices others make for you, and eternally hoping that it'll 'turn out right'. *kissesteeth*

 

[hopeful]

JustKiya, your post made me really wish I knew you personally and we were friends IRL. I agree with EVERYTHING you said.

 

[metro_qt]

Interesting how almost all of these points refer back to the fact that so long as a woman is sleeping with a man, he will lie, deflect, obfuscate, make empty promises, etc. to keep his sexual status quo in order. It doesn't say as long as a man enjoys her companionship or their emotional connection. Has anyone known a situation where a woman wasn't sleeping with a man, and he still insincerely dragged things on?

Why do we insist on trying to play the game like a man instead of being true to our feminine values, goals and ideals?

YES!!!
it just recently happened to me, for the last 3 months,
and i had to break it off last week.

so yeah, it can also happen if you're not sleeping with the man in question

 

[MissYocairis]

YES!!!
it just recently happened to me, for the last 3 months,
and i had to break it off last week.

so yeah, it can also happen if you're not sleeping with the man in question

Hmmm...he must have thought you were playing about the no sex thing...and then, one day, it became clear you were serious. I'm glad he showed his true colors without getting it first.

 

[Poohbear]

YES!!!

it just recently happened to me, for the last 3 months,

and i had to break it off last week.



so yeah, it can also happen if you're not sleeping with the man in question

^^^Exactly.

One thing some women fail to realize is that sex isn't the only thing or even the main thing that makes or breaks a relationship. So many other factors play into a relationship. Some men and women can do without sex. They may want it from time to time, but do not need sex in order for a relationship to survive. In some cases, sex doesn't mean anything of significance to some people. They can have sex and at the same time be in total disregard of feelings and emotions. Sex doesn't keep a man. Sex doesn't mean the man loves you or even likes you.

 

[Rastafarai]

Interesting.

I don't see anything saying 'Make getting married and having kids the focal point of your youth'. I see a whole lot saying - If you WANT to get married and have kids, make sure that your youthful RELATIONSHIPS reflect that.

Huge difference between the two - and of course, you have to be honest with yourself about what you want out of life. If you are ambivalent about getting married or having kids - or know that it's just not for you - then, yeah, this advice would be -inducing.

If, however, you are certain that you do want to be married, and you do want to have kids - while you don't have to build your entire youth around the pursuit of that goal (and seriously, where was that even implied?? ) - you'd be downright stupid to allow yourself to waste long periods of time in intimate relationships that are not moving you towards that goal. Summer flings ain't nothing but fun.

I'm also very interested in hearing Jewelle's take on how this allows men to continue to control our behavior or keep us on our toes.

To me, it seems like the opposite - cooking, cleaning, screwing, taking care of a man who has not indicated interest in marrying you in an attempt to make him want to marry you seems more controlling and tiptoeish than not cooking, not cleaning, not taking care of, and only screwing him if you want to with a man who hasn't indicated he wants to marry you.

In fact, it seems like letting a man know from jump that you WANT to be married, and that he's got a short window of opportunity before you move on would shift the control into the woman's hands, and shift the weight of being on their 'best' behavior to the man. The woman already knows what she wants. Now he has to live up to it, or get left.

I'm pretty darn feminist myself, and it seems like the suggestions in these posts are all about women claiming some power in a relationship, and wielding that power to get what she eventually wants - a husband and some kids.

You DA BOMB!