Spin Off...Porn Psychology

[tiara76]

Since the other thread took a turn to talking about the psychology of porn and why people do it/are into it I thought I would start this thread to discuss that aspect of it...I apologize in advance for length

Me personally at this present time I am heavily into sex/sexuality and studying this area very in depth....I have never been heavy into porn but there are times I have enjoyed it with a man I was involved with...

for me what I have realized is that I enjoy watching it ONLY when Im viewing people who actually are enjoying what they do...and I tend to not be interested when I get the feeling they aren't feeling it or are giving off negative vibes even behind all the seemingly acting of enjoyment.....this is something I wasn't aware that I did in previous years, something I'm very aware of these days.......and this goes for anything having to do with some form of adult entertainment....I only enjoy viewing it when its done in a manner where the person gives off the energy they enjoy and are okay with it.....

and from my personal experience with talking to women esp from women who take sexy/nude photos, strippers, porn stars, escorts etc...majority of these women ARE NOT OKAY with what they do....and there are those who are detrimentally messed up from traumatic events that lead them to these sorts of lifestyles and they carry very negative outlooks around sex...and there are those types who like what they do, but feel bad because of how others view them and they think something is more wrong with them because they don't feel bad and do enjoy what they do vs they feel like crap for doing it or, so it turns into a detrimental mindstate from that point and there are those small percentage of women who are okay with what they do and really do enjoy it... have a healthy outlook on sex/sexuality, a healthy outlook on themselves and carry a more positive energy around it in whatever aspect they are doing it in

now to the people who indulge in porn/strip clubs/websites etc...there are those same types of people who engage...the people who harbor sexual traumas and issues who turn to this outlet for those various different reasons, but carry negative notions around it (turns into addictions easily)....those who actually like it but feel bad for liking it and beat themselves up over guilt because they think they aren't supposed to like it (can turn into an addiction) and those who have a healthy attitude around sex and enjoy watching it and are able to carry on with their lives without it being this huge issue that tears people apart

now with that being said...I do think there are different levels of sexuality...there are lower (not to be confused with "bad") levels of sexuality where its engaged solely on a physical level...and on that level there are people who have negative and positive outlooks on it and operate either from a healthy perspective or unhealthy one....

and higher levels (more whole (holy) spiritual) levels where at this level...imo its a healthy level all around because its the link of spirituality and sexuality and entails people engaging in it fully in mind, body and spirit and there is even sexual content and art that people either alone or coupled on this level engage in and enjoy looking at..

erotic art, sensual tantalizing dancing nude or sexually implied, videos...etc

some examples would be
tantra.com... a site where there are plenty videos of people having sex, but they way they are having it and the energies given off is soooooooooo different than watching

Peggy gets anally destroyed by Big Boy Billy

I personally have several types of videos either teaching about sex or expressing sex in a very loving way between people and I enjoy watching this sort of sexual expression way more than I enjoy watching typical porn, but when I wasn't on this level of sexuality I enjoyed watching reg porn, just when it seemed to me the people were okay and enjoyed what they were doing, which wasn't often

I enjoy erotic art, books, videos with men and women in sexual positions that show passion, love and electric energy and my house is full of them...

one of my favorite books that is in my living room is
Pleasuring...The secrets of sexual satisfaction

http://www.amazon.com/Pleasuring-Satisfaction-Yvonne-K-Fulbright/dp/1402749317

it is filled with amazing photos of men and women in different sexual poses, plus its filled with learning different aspects of personal and individual sensuality and sexuality, intimacy, love, romance, passion, chemistry, pleasure...etc....and I can look at this book with a male and enjoy the art and discuss what sex means to me and what I want out of it

Don't know if the topic is too heavy or "offensive" to some but if it is the intent is not to offend n e body

 

[Radianthealth]

Yay, I mentioned this in the porn thread.

ETA: It seems that there are all sorts of people (healthy, unhealthy, and just crazy) in every profession including porn.

I look forward to reading more of your writings on this subject

Gracias

 

[MissMeWithThatIsh]

I love this post. I find it's eloquently stated and I agree that for many there are the lower and higher levels.

I was speaking with a male gentlemen about sexuality and I stated there's a difference between sexual variety in quantity (the number of people u express with) and quality (how deep the sexual exploration goes with people u engage with). Overall people focus on the shallow lower levels and increase quantity instead of moving to a higher experience (which requires deeper bonds between people and built intimacy and trust, etc... and "Removing the Mask").

Reg porn is on the shallow end of the spectrum which attracts most people. There is a sense of disengagement and alternate reality.

I am also aware of many women who work in the adult industry, and there is a very mixed assortment of those who do it for acceptance (they think it will bring men to them), those who are jaded (and think they might as well get paid for it), and those who truly love what they do.

I'll admit, there's something to be said about what I watch when I watch it.

 

[Syrah]

Great post Tiara...a grown and "sexy" discussion about sex. I'm so with you when it comes to assuming the vibe of the "participants" (whether it's books, music, videos etc). Do men who watch porn also connect with the vibe "exuded" by the participants they're watching and why/why not?!

Like with any other type of "activity" where the line between "partaking" and "addiction" is easily blurred and varies from person to person, what ultimately determines whether or not an addiction exists is the motivation and the degree of control.

Do you mind if I ask, Tiara, what lead you to your current place? I ask for personal reasons, because much like you and Lauryn, I'm moving closer to that place. Defining your own sexuality and finding comfort with that definition, I'm finding, is a cool process (a little unnerving - see my post about "early sex" HAHA). Here's my question: at what point do the lines between confidence and sexy blur?

 

[tiara76]

considering that the topic and education of sex/sexuality/sexual energy/psychology is shied away from and considered taboo.....I don't have a good argument against porn being an outlet catering to the unhealthy mindsets of the average person who indulges in it..because I don't know every single person who engages in some form or sexual adult ent, but I would bet the majority of the folks in one way or another have some sort of unhealthy, negative notions that can easily lead to a more destructive mindstate that can reflect out and interfere with the relationships they have with others...

but I wouldn't say the solution is to ban porn and make these sexual and unhealthy repressions/expressions even worse than they already are, I would say that for real education and in depth discussion on it would help a great deal...

so many of us have no clue just how powerful our life energy is (sexual energy) and alot of us either severely repress it or overly express it to either points of unhealthiness....because we don't have the proper learning on what it is really about....

we attach this negative stigma to it UNLESS x y z...and ONLY then is it good and if expressed any other way its ALL TO THE BAD.....most sexual deviant behavior comes from ignorance of what sexual energy is and the lack of being able to control it when its always trying to express itself...the more heavily its repressed the more abnormal and perverted ways it comes out (ie how some catholic priests seem to turn into sexual monsters preying on kids) and now we have for real "bad" expressions of sexuality and actions behind it....and anytime somebody has succumbed to these unhealthy desires and acts with no concern of mental, emotional, sexual health for the self....

BEST BELIEVE THEY HAVE NO CONCERN FOR ANYBODY ELSE"S

its no surprise we have a ton of people engaging in sexual conduct in some of the unhealthiest ways in private with each other or random people..... and when it comes to outlets or professions where sexual expression is publicly viewed or accessible (porn, strip clubs, photos)...depending on who is expressing its easily easy for the majority of these people to also have destructive mindsets on what they are doing and attracting folks of the same mindsets to some degree to partake in it.....

because being an exotic dancer, or engaging in sexual photos or videos itself from beginning of time has always been around....and its not the videos or the dancing or the sex that is "bad" or "unhealthy"...its the people involved who determine that.....

I can go to a strip club and two different women can dance butt naked the exact same way and I can tell whos comfortable and enjoy what she does vs the one who doesn't and I personally enjoy looking at the okay one, where somebody else might think she was wack and like the one who feels "dirty" and "bad" about what she does....it speaks for what I feel about it and what I respond to and what the other feels and responds to...and if I had a chance to talk to the one who feels "bad" I would do my best to encourage her to find a different route and get some help....and help her understand that because she chose to do this doesn't make her any worse a person, but her feelings of herself that are enhanced because she chose to do this are her warning signals that shes moving further into a hole of self despair...not away and to continue doing so without some help can turn into a diaster.....and Ive had these sorts of convos with plenty of women thru out the years and no matter how much I want to be captain save a despaired young woman...I can only step back and allow them to live their lives.....

so I have seen some crash and burn

and to my delight have seen some make some positive turns

 

[Radianthealth]

I also wonder about the violence and demeaning things that occur in some porn...I wonder what is attractive about doing that to or with someone?

Aren't we both supposed to be having a good time?

ETA: It also makes me question whether I am programmed to think of certain things as acceptable and certain things as unacceptable :scratchch

 

[mxdchiq86]

I also wonder about the violence and demeaning things that occur in some porn...I wonder what is attractive about doing that to or with someone?

Aren't we both supposed to be having a good time?

ETA: It also makes me question whether I am programmed to think of certain things as acceptable and certain things as unacceptable :scratchch

yeah, some of these fetishes really make me wonder.. but, a man will be quick to say '' it's just a fantasy ''. cop out, in my opinion. anyways..

awesome thread and very well written.

 

[tiara76]

I also wonder about the violence and demeaning things that occur in some porn...I wonder what is attractive about doing that to or with someone?

Aren't we both supposed to be having a good time?

an expression of anger and negative emotions....

I have never been attracted to looking at violent or demeaning sex nor engaging it.....if a man feels he has be aggressive with me during sex then thats speaking volumes for some inner aggressions that are plaguing him and Im not into having sex for "pleasing" or "keeping" a man and if thats how he needs to get off, then I won't be the person he's having sex with....and if he gets off on watching violent sex I would definitely probe him about what he gets out of it....there is a problem imo.....and I would also think that the people who act it out for others have things they need to work out as well

people express inner issues thru sex in various different ways which is why there are so many different "fetishes" in it....dominatrix, submissive men, s&m, etc...there are repressions that are coming to surface...Im not sayin any of this is bad but it may be a signal that things within need to be addressed at some point....on one hand it may not turn into an addiction and if you have somebody you are with on a personal level who enjoys certain fetishes....I would never suggest making them feel like something is wrong with them for having them....(ie disgusting, pervert or other demeaning associations people project onto others).....finding out why they feel the need to engage in it is a first step to healing and also to intimacy and alot of times can lead to a person being able to resolve their issues and not need to do them anymore....but making a person feel like crap over them is what keeps people stuggling with themselves....and also what can cause them to step outside you whether in porn or in real life to find these sort of activities with someone else who they can act out with or watch act out

 

[Radianthealth]

This is why I brought up the progamming thing though...there are certain things that I do sexually that I enjoy doing that others would not approve of, so sometimes I wonder if I am not accepting of things because of what I have been taught about sex.

I don't necessarily know that these things are bad...I just feel they aren't for me.

Right now I think I am trying to create a balance of being open/free but still doing things that make me comfortable. I think sometimes I get into the rut of "if I don't give this a try I must not be open minded"

This mind-set is self imposed because I think of myself as someone who does her own thing. Also nobody wants to be a "stereotypical" frigid woman

 

[Syrah]

I also wonder about the violence and demeaning things that occur in some porn...I wonder what is attractive about doing that to or with someone?

Aren't we both supposed to be having a good time?

ETA: It also makes me question whether I am programmed to think of certain things as acceptable and certain things as unacceptable :scratchch

With sex there's a fine line between power and control. WIth sex there's a "power" that comes with knowing the physical and emotional affects one has on people (don't think of it terms of strength but more kinesthetic reactions). The boundary between that and control is VERY fine and I think that's where you start to see the deviancy.

It's the same reason why some women have fantasing of being "overpowered" (no we are NOT talking about "rape fantasies") - those situations where you consciously and willingly give in to someone else's desires, thereby fulfilling your own.

And I think with some men, in feeding their own inherent desire for power, they cross the boundary into control and forced control without even realizing it. Does the dude who's watching a girl get "take from behind" while having her face shoved in the toilet actually connect the dots and realize he's watching a woman do something against her will or is he more focused on the POWER and subjugation? Or is that they find themselves aroused by the notion that it is against the will? I dunno...

 

[JFemme]

interesting discussion ladies...

 

[Radianthealth]

With sex there's a fine line between power and control. WIth sex there's a "power" that comes with knowing the physical and emotional affects one has on people (don't think of it terms of strength but more kinesthetic reactions). The boundary between that and control is VERY fine and I think that's where you start to see the deviancy.

It's the same reason why some women have fantasing of being "overpowered" (no we are NOT talking about "rape fantasies") - those situations where you consciously and willingly give in to someone else's desires, thereby fulfilling your own.

And I think with some men, in feeding their own inherent desire for power, they cross the boundary into control and forced control without even realizing it. Does the dude who's watching a girl get "take from behind" while having her face shoved in the toilet actually connect the dots and realize he's watching a woman do something against her will or is he more focused on the POWER and subjugation? Or is that they find themselves aroused by the notion that it is against the will? I dunno...

This makes a lot of sense

 

[tiara76]

Great post Tiara...a grown and "sexy" discussion about sex. I'm so with you when it comes to assuming the vibe of the "participants" (whether it's books, music, videos etc). Do men who watch porn also connect with the vibe "exuded" by the participants they're watching and why/why not?!

IMPO...I do feel on a subconscious level that the type of porn a male engages in picks up on a inner vibe he feels....from the people who are their "favorites" to the types of acts they like to see...My ex watches alot of porn but he is very picky about what he likes to look at....when I think back to how he picked his porn.....he could easily click thru dozens of videos and skip, skip, skip until he came across something that seemed to grab him.....he has a very healthy outlook on sex, on women and is very comfortable with his sexuality and he especially likes to look at women who he says enjoy the act....but no woman in porn is looking like shes NOT enjoying it, so hes subconsciously picking up and responding to looking at the ones where he feels there is genuine enjoyment..which is why I had no problem looking at it with him whether I got involved with him or not while he got into it
Like with any other type of "activity" where the line between "partaking" and "addiction" is easily blurred and varies from person to person, what ultimately determines whether or not an addiction exists is the motivation and the degree of control.

I agree....when a person is not in control of their actions addictions can occur easily..a person who enjoys drinking a glass of wine several nights a week with dinner is not an alcoholic, if they need a bottle, need to be drunk, rather drink than eat, or drink in an excessive uncontrollable manner and claim they just "enjoy" it....there is a problem

Do you mind if I ask, Tiara, what lead you to your current place? I ask for personal reasons, because much like you and Lauryn, I'm moving closer to that place. Defining your own sexuality and finding comfort with that definition, I'm finding, is a cool process (a little unnerving - see my post about "early sex" HAHA). Here's my question: at what point do the lines between confidence and sexy blur?

I was raised with a healthy outlook on sex/sexuality, a healthy outlook on women and men, a good sense of self and lots of unconditional love....taking pictures has been a passion of mines since I was a kid...I loved to look at pictures and take pictures.....my mom was very "sexy"...and she showed it.....in the way she dressed, the way she carried herself and just had this aura and feminine energy around her that mesmerized people....and she was beat down by others for embracing this part of herself, but yet she continued to be who she was...she felt good, she liked dressing up and she was my idol on the beauty front...I would dress up in her dresses and have my friends or my lil brother take pictures of me posing...I lived in Europe for 7 years and where I was sex and nudity wasn't so taboo over there as it is over here...so I really took a interest in the nude modeling and erotic art....and always loved the victoria secret type of modeling.....when I got back to the states.....I would take pics all the time before I started "modeling"....sexy, nude...just liked to express in that way...always loved my body....never had a problem with the attention I got...its natural men respond to beauty and sexuality, but on average they are okay with just complimenting it vs hounding you for sex or trying to get with you...so I handle the opposite sex very well and have boundaries for how I am treated and men and have learned a long time ago people treat you how you treat yourself and how you allow them too....so disrespectful behavior in real life has been very minimal my whole life and easily flipped into respectful behavior....

Fast forward to today....I love to be able to express who I am as a woman and how I feel....I have nothing to hide and don't mind people looking at me.. my energy is very positive and men and women respond positively to it...the people who support me and enjoy what I do are very positive males and females who carry a healthy outlook on sexuality and sex and those who have a opposite mindset don't care for me too much...I put the energy I feel into my photos and videos and people pick up on it.....there is a whole lot of fillers for this story that also make up to where I am today on who I am and what I do that would make a great book, but would make a long super drawn out post on a message board

so to put it shortly I embrace my feminity, my beauty, my sensuality and sexuality and I express it in a way that others are free to to enjoy that expression if they so chose to do so. And I am not saying that for any woman to do this means they have to go show it off to the world...thats a whole nother topic...

misconceptions on what it means when is a woman is secure and comfortable and embracing of herself vs when she's not and the behavior she exhibits or doesn't

its an energy that can be felt regardless if shes covered from head to toe or butt naked....

and the energy that she isn't comfortable can be felt if she is covered from head to toe or butt naked

 

[tiara76]

This is why I brought up the progamming thing though...there are certain things that I do sexually that I enjoy doing that others would not approve of, so sometimes I wonder if I am not accepting of things because of what I have been taught about sex.

I don't necessarily know that these things are bad...I just feel they aren't for me.

Right now I think I am trying to create a balance of being open/free but still doing things that make me comfortable. I think sometimes I get into the rut of "if I don't give this a try I must not be open minded"

This mind-set is self imposed because I think of myself as someone who does her own thing. Also nobody wants to be a "stereotypical" frigid woman

I agree....this will also be one of the topics heavily discussed on my new site evolveyourtruth....figuring out why you think and feel what you do...and asking yourself these questions are great ways to self reflect and figure out how you really feel based on what what YOU really feel and not what somebody else feels....

and balance is the key to life.....we live in a physical realm of polarities....to be somewhere in the middle balancing the yin/yang negative/positive etc is when we start to feel the most comfortable and peaceful in any area of our life

 

[The Girl]

Tiara,you brought up some really good points. I do think that many of the participants of the "body" biz have crazy hangups...They may have grown up with really strict parents who repressed any natural sexual expression (I know some folks cringe reading that but sexuality doesn't equal sex/domething dirty). It always amazes me the things folks call porn...as if it ALL a bad thing...

 

[The Girl]

misconceptions on what it means when is a woman is secure and comfortable and embracing of herself vs when she's not and the behavior she exhibits or doesn't

its an energy that can be felt regardless if shes covered from head to toe or butt naked....

and the energy that she isn't comfortable can be felt if she is covered from head to toe or butt naked[/COLOR]

Exactly, there are lots of insecure women who are covered head to toe(and vice versa), lots of women who wear little to no clothing but are comfortable with themselves(and vice versa) and lastly, there are women who don't know(I think the vast majority of women) what to think of their sexuality/self esteem. Me personally, honestly, fall into all three on any given time...

 

[Farida]

I went through a period where I tried to convince myself porn was okay. I've never truly been okay with a man I'm involved with being involved with porn. I tried to tell myself that it was something relaxing, to kick things up a notch in the bedroom - and for some to quell a lust that had no fulfillment.

I soon realized that no matter what I told myself, I was not okay with it. The logic I had gone through was:
1. It's not about you
2. It's not about the women on the video
3. It's about the act of some dude relieving himself. That's it!

Then I realized, even if I was able to convince myself of this, I was still nagged by:
1. The fact that I consider it degrading
2. The notion that watching porn usually leads to one wanting more, and usually of a more explicit nature, because you get desensitized.
3. I didn't feel it was in line with my spiritual desires.

Then I sat down and decided to do some of my own homework, because I kept buying biased views - people saying it was 100% fine and I should get over it, and people saying it was 100% terrible and evil.
I read up hundreds of biographies of famous porn stars, and some testimonies about them from other workers of the industry like make up artists, camera folk etc. I noticed a common thread of all or one of the following:
1. Molestation or rape.
2. Heavy drug/alcohol use

Number 3 was common but not overwhelmingly:
3. Disadvantaged background

People can feed me all this optimism about how these are powerful women exercising their sexuality, but the truth is most of us look down on porn stars because we find it inherently degrading. Very few people would be proud or encourage or suggest that their loved ones went into the business.

That being said, I decided for me, I can't in good faith support that industry. And I can't, do what most do and support free downloads of those movies. Either way I feel is a level of degradation for those involved.

 

[tiara76]

Thats a good way of coming to your own conclusions vivmaiko ^^^^and great that you took extra time to do research to come to some sort of resolve about your feelings on it and deciding why you don't like it and don't want to be with someone who does


would you be open to doing research on books and videos that display sexual content in the forms of tantra, lovemaking, art of sexual energy, sensual massage....etc (if you havent already).....and compare the displays of the men and women expressing in this form of sexual expression vs the "normal" porn that is pretty rampant these days......not saying or suggesting you will feel anything different , but just to observe a different perspective of people who do it from their own proclaimed "positive" expression of sexuality.....

 

[Farida]

Thats a good way of coming to your own conclusions vivmaiko ^^^^and great that you took extra time to do research to come to some sort of resolve about your feelings on it and deciding why you don't like it and don't want to be with someone who does


would you be open to doing research on books and videos that display sexual content in the forms of tantra, lovemaking, art of sexual energy, sensual massage....etc (if you havent already).....and compare the displays of the men and women expressing in this form of sexual expression vs the "normal" porn that is pretty rampant these days......not saying or suggesting you will feel anything different , but just to observe a different perspective of people who do it from their own proclaimed "positive" expression of sexuality.....

Perhaps I would be more open to that...but a question would still arise in terms of how it fits into my religious beliefs.

 

[Country gal]

I find some porn to be very entertaining. You can tell when the porn is geared toward women versus a man.

 

[tiara76]

Perhaps I would be more open to that...but a question would still arise in terms of how it fits into my religious beliefs.

the first thing to remember about any info that you are ever exposed to for any reason is that its not meant for you to believe it/accept it, or want to believe it or feel something it.....so there is no need to try to make it fit anything in the constructs of your own mind......

there are alot of folks who are literally scared to learn new things because they feel that if they learn about anything other than what they know the info will somehow bully its way into their heads and they are stuck "believing" different things

of course thats not a comment geared at you because from your previous post I think you take an excellent approach into to trying to understand what is your own feelings and take on things vs what is outside of you and are open to researching more in order to come to those conclusions for yourself.....I honestly feel that is the trait of an evolving spirit......

and there are plenty of open minded religious folks contrary to popular belief who are hungry for knowledge, and open to learning new things and still have a strong sense of self and can still hold onto the core of what ever religious sect they have chosen to be in

 

[Farida]

the first thing to remember about any info that you are ever exposed to for any reason is that its not meant for you to believe it/accept it, or want to believe it or feel something it.....so there is no need to try to make it fit anything in the constructs of your own mind......

there are alot of folks who are literally scared to learn new things because they feel that if they learn about anything other than what they know the info will somehow bully its way into their heads and they are stuck "believing" different things

of course thats not a comment geared at you because from your previous post I think you take an excellent approach into to trying to understand what is your own feelings and take on things vs what is outside of you and are open to researching more in order to come to those conclusions for yourself.....I honestly feel that is the trait of an evolving spirit......

and there are plenty of open minded religious folks contrary to popular belief who are hungry for knowledge, and open to learning new things and still have a strong sense of self and can still hold onto the core of what ever religious sect they have chosen to be in

I like to do my homework, and a lot of ideas I hold would not sit well with my fellow church-goers. I attend a Jesuit school and one thing I love about the Jesuit mission is they are really huge on the idea of knowledge. My undergrad prof used to tell us all the time not to argue with a Jesuit because we'd lose.

If you study church history over the years you learn that there are several paradigm shifts over time. The church doesn't always have the right answers, and as we learn more about the world things change. For example, until the 1930s all churches held that contraception of all kinds was a sin. In the 30s the Anglicans changed their stance and the other churches followed suit in the 60s except Catholics.

Abortion - contrary to popular belief, the church hasn't always held abortion to be sinful. There was a time when it was considered okay before 'quickening" which is when the mother feels the baby move in her womb. However, as people learned more about science this changed.

So I don't limit myself. I read and make choices. I receive a lot of flack but I believe if my faith is true then it will stand testing.

 

[tiara76]

I like to do my homework, and a lot of ideas I hold would not sit well with my fellow church-goers. I attend a Jesuit school and one thing I love about the Jesuit mission is they are really huge on the idea of knowledge. My undergrad prof used to tell us all the time not to argue with a Jesuit because we'd lose.

If you study church history over the years you learn that there are several paradigm shifts over time. The church doesn't always have the right answers, and as we learn more about the world things change. For example, until the 1930s all churches held that contraception of all kinds was a sin. In the 30s the Anglicans changed their stance and the other churches followed suit in the 60s except Catholics.

Abortion - contrary to popular belief, the church hasn't always held abortion to be sinful. There was a time when it was considered okay before 'quickening" which is when the mother feels the baby move in her womb. However, as people learned more about science this changed.

So I don't limit myself. I read and make choices. I receive a lot of flack but I believe if my faith is true then it will stand testing.

I've studied alot of religion as well so I know where you are coming from....you would definitely be somebody to hold a great convo with

the bolded is a great statement

 

[Syrah]

I like to do my homework, and a lot of ideas I hold would not sit well with my fellow church-goers. I attend a Jesuit school and one thing I love about the Jesuit mission is they are really huge on the idea of knowledge. My undergrad prof used to tell us all the time not to argue with a Jesuit because we'd lose.

If you study church history over the years you learn that there are several paradigm shifts over time. The church doesn't always have the right answers, and as we learn more about the world things change. For example, until the 1930s all churches held that contraception of all kinds was a sin. In the 30s the Anglicans changed their stance and the other churches followed suit in the 60s except Catholics.

Abortion - contrary to popular belief, the church hasn't always held abortion to be sinful. There was a time when it was considered okay before 'quickening" which is when the mother feels the baby move in her womb. However, as people learned more about science this changed.

So I don't limit myself. I read and make choices. I receive a lot of flack but I believe if my faith is true then it will stand testing.

It seems you've come to a place of "beliefs" based on understanding - in a way that best suits what you're looking for...and I commend you for that. It's the acceptance that with anything ultimately "operated" or "ordained" by humans (meaning the operation of the church itself), it is flawed and whether or not those flaws can be accepted.

I think the question is what role does sexuality play in the church and the church, in sexuality.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

With sex there's a fine line between power and control. WIth sex there's a "power" that comes with knowing the physical and emotional affects one has on people (don't think of it terms of strength but more kinesthetic reactions). The boundary between that and control is VERY fine and I think that's where you start to see the deviancy.

It's the same reason why some women have fantasing of being "overpowered" (no we are NOT talking about "rape fantasies") - those situations where you consciously and willingly give in to someone else's desires, thereby fulfilling your own.

And I think with some men, in feeding their own inherent desire for power, they cross the boundary into control and forced control without even realizing it. Does the dude who's watching a girl get "take from behind" while having her face shoved in the toilet actually connect the dots and realize he's watching a woman do something against her will or is he more focused on the POWER and subjugation? Or is that they find themselves aroused by the notion that it is against the will? I dunno...

I think it's the latter two. They are often (IMO) focused on the power it makes them feel. The notion that it's against the will of the woman is arousing in that it plays into their sense of power (however vicariously). The fact that she is indeed being forced to do something against her will validates the extent to which the man has control. All of these elements play off one another and to some extent are required to paint the full picture.

An interesting tidbit - I remember watching a program on sexuality and a psychologist mentioned that often times it's women who lead very powerful and domineering roles in their day lives who seek to be dominated sexually and those who are less domineering in their day lives are more likely to be aroused by the concept of being in control sexually. I forget what research he based this on, but I do recall him mentioning it.

 

[tiara76]

It seems you've come to a place of "beliefs" based on understanding - in a way that best suits what you're looking for...and I commend you for that. It's the acceptance that with anything ultimately "operated" or "ordained" by humans (meaning the operation of the church itself), it is flawed and whether or not those flaws can be accepted.

I think the question is what role does sexuality play in the church and the church, in sexuality.

thats a good question, and not just on a whether its okay to watch porn tip...on a larger scale outside of churches and for alot of people...the lack of real sex education is more detrimental to us than anything all around the board especially the difference between spiritual sex and physical sex and the labeling of physical sex to be "bad"....because the majority of the people walking this earth are not living in their whole selves as mind, body and spirit......more of us are living in mind/body (ego based usually) only which = to more physical experiences and acting out in physical (egotistic) ways...and to break it down even further its not uncommon alot of us are living with unhealthy egos that cause us to act out in unhealthy ways in all areas of life not just sexually....but since we are on the topic of sex I will stick to that

My personal quest for knowledge in this arena...sexual studies, sexual energy, sexual psychology, my quest for bigger, grander experiences, etc and my own personal self probing questions have led me to get an even greater understanding than I have had on it before....and there is at least one thing I am in a agreement on with the views of religion and that is the subject of being "unholy" when it comes to sexual behavior when sex is not experienced on a higher level

I myself do not consider myself religious or follow a religion... however from the ones I have studied I find lots of resonating thoughts and I will pick christianity to speak on because take all of the layers of man added on top of things that people may like to go back and forth over in debates and discussions and at the foundation you find that the spiritual basis of this religion is to be "Christ Like"....simply put.... and I think that foundation is great and I have taken a great interest in studying the subject of Jesus outside the texts of the bible and alot of things he has been quoted as saying in many many different correlating references ring true to my heart.....

one of the things he talked about when he spoke about sex is that when we engage in it and we are not operating as our "whole" selves then we we are not "wholly" (holy) into it....and if we are not presently whole in mind body and spirit when we are engaging in it.. then we don't experience the "whole" beautiful essence of what sex is and therefore we experience it as not whole (unholy).....

now to retract away from religion anybody can take what it means as unholy and put it into any perspective or context they feel like putting it into....to be unholy is "bad" or to be unholy is not "bad", its human and we experience on human levels to rise to spiritual levels so to codemn the human part of us is to condemn a part of the whole and to do that would make it impossible to operate on a whole level if one part of the whole is judged as "bad"...and when we perceive something to be bad we reject it instead of accept it....so its not a surprise to me that the subject can be argued from one perspective to the other...

for my personal journey and my newfound understandings of sex I don't think its bad for anybody to be "unwhole", the goal of evolving and growing and attaining higher levels of consciousness is to get to that experience of being whole in mind body and spirit and operating from a loving state...right now i do not have an active sex life, not because I am "trying" to not have sex or because I harbor negative feelings around it but because I have experienced it on a "whole" level and its such an amazing different experience that for me to go back to engaging in it on a unwhole level, where it was more physical and instantly gratifying (not bad at all, but I always had the sense something was missing and I just never knew what it was) would simply be going backwards for me......and to experience it the way I would like to experience from here on out would require the other person to also be on those levels....

now back to sexual images and artful expressions...when I look at the books, videos, pics on erotic, sensual sexual lovemaking..i don't get "horny" and want to go out and have sex....I am filled with feelings of love and fullfilling energy and strangely enough a satisfying feeling within without having to do anything physically sexual on my end.....and its the idea I keep in my head that when I do find a partner I can be truly intimate, open and vulnerable to and him vice versa that these expressions I have witnessed, looked at, fantasized about are what I see myself also being with someone...and when I look at women solo specifically who express the whole power of feminine sensual expressed energy and it jumps out of the pics or videos and engulfs my whole being to where I can feel it pulsate through my body it makes me feel even more alive, more feminine, more powerful.....

I truly believe there is a direct connection between spirituality and sexuality and to be open to releasing and expressing the life force within (sexual energy) for men and women lead to freedom of spirit...its the energy that creates, heals, rejuvenates and lifts and seeing other people who express it has the ability to transfer that energy....especially when its visually, artfully expressed in the manner its felt....

 

[Zaynab]

This is a great discussion ladies.

I have nothing to substantial to add. I like porn, not degrading or violent porn.