SPIN-OFF: Black people with Type 1 Hair

MissMarie said:
If you think about the issue from a scientific basis you'll completely undermine what you are trying to research. There is no scientific basis for this concept of "for-real Blacks", or "Negroid Africans". The phenotypic diversity that people fixate on is simply a result of humans adapting to different environments. Actual genetic diversity is greatest within Africa, within the very regions that we're trying to stereotype as having the only "real" Black people. These people have adapted, changed, migrated and intermarried as have most communities of humans, such as the other African groups that are being deemed here as not Black enough. There are no, and have never been strict boundaries between populations, so there is nothing to guarantee that all sub-Saharan groups are only descended from ancestors that looked exactly as they look now.
If people from Somalia and Ethopia are not really Black because there has been some intermixture over the millenia with Arab groups, then Italians, Jews and Gypsies are not really White and should not have been included in the other discussion.

There is no biological/scientific basis for race at all. Race is a social construct. So to answer your question, yes I would consider African-Americans, Creoles, Afro-Latinas, etc to be Black because socially there are Black. The OP didn't ask if people knew of unmixed, Black, sub-Saharan Africans with type 1 hair, she just asked about Blacks period. So if individuals in these groups have the ability to grow type 1 hair, then I would say, yes there are Black people that have that type of hair. I don't believe in this idea of quintessential Blacks, to me I'm just as Black as an individual from the Congo. They obviously have greater African ancestry then I (;-)) but IMO "Blackness" is not dependent on blood quantification, its useless (to me) to go digging through someone's family tree to try and gauge how Black they are. Someone can't be more Black than someone else, Black is Black.

Also, for those against the idea of Black being inclusive (one-drop rule), what would happen to the Black community if all those who weren't considered Black enough were told they couldn't be Black anymore? In the Western Hemisphere there basically wouldn't be a Black community anymore. I think its a slap in the face to those who came before us to create these restrictions on who is or isn't a real Black person given that they struggled to make things better for all people of African descent. In the US at least, many of our greatest leaders were individuals who could not boast of a completely unmixed African ancestry. IMHO Black is Black whether its blue or brown eyes, straight, curly or kinky hair, thin or full features.

(sorry this is so long)

i agree with what you are saying. when i said "scientific" i meant lookign at it from the scientific methodology of conducting research and creole people and black latinas would not be the most representative sample frame. its like if you were researchign if it was possibel for asians to have non-slanted eyes, you would not included people who are of mixed heritage, even if it was 5 or 6 generations back because that would not be a represenative sample. i hope i'm making sense.
 
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MissMarie said:
If you think about the issue from a scientific basis you'll completely undermine what you are trying to research. There is no scientific basis for this concept of "for-real Blacks", or "Negroid Africans". The phenotypic diversity that people fixate on is simply a result of humans adapting to different environments. Actual genetic diversity is greatest within Africa, within the very regions that we're trying to stereotype as having the only "real" Black people. These people have adapted, changed, migrated and intermarried as have most communities of humans, such as the other African groups that are being deemed here as not Black enough. There are no, and have never been strict boundaries between populations, so there is nothing to guarantee that all sub-Saharan groups are only descended from ancestors that looked exactly as they look now.
If people from Somalia and Ethopia are not really Black because there has been some intermixture over the millenia with Arab groups, then Italians, Jews and Gypsies are not really White and should not have been included in the other discussion.

There is no biological/scientific basis for race at all. Race is a social construct. So to answer your question, yes I would consider African-Americans, Creoles, Afro-Latinas, etc to be Black because socially there are Black. The OP didn't ask if people knew of unmixed, Black, sub-Saharan Africans with type 1 hair, she just asked about Blacks period. So if individuals in these groups have the ability to grow type 1 hair, then I would say, yes there are Black people that have that type of hair. I don't believe in this idea of quintessential Blacks, to me I'm just as Black as an individual from the Congo. They obviously have greater African ancestry then I (;-)) but IMO "Blackness" is not dependent on blood quantification, its useless (to me) to go digging through someone's family tree to try and gauge how Black they are. Someone can't be more Black than someone else, Black is Black.

Also, for those against the idea of Black being inclusive (one-drop rule), what would happen to the Black community if all those who weren't considered Black enough were told they couldn't be Black anymore? In the Western Hemisphere there basically wouldn't be a Black community anymore. I think its a slap in the face to those who came before us to create these restrictions on who is or isn't a real Black person given that they struggled to make things better for all people of African descent. In the US at least, many of our greatest leaders were individuals who could not boast of a completely unmixed African ancestry. IMHO Black is Black whether its blue or brown eyes, straight, curly or kinky hair, thin or full features.

(sorry this is so long)
Preach it girl! Another very good post!!!! :clap:
 
Black people are muti-racial. All of the examples I read on the first page kinda point out the fact that the black people are muti-racial.... well who the hell isn't? No matter where you go the majority of black people are mixed with SOMETHING. So saying they have straight hair because they are mixed is a little dumb to me. A good of those people aren't mixed anymore than the average person is.

I know 1 black man and 1 black woman with straight hair. Another woman has slightly wavy hair... like type 1b or c if that hairtype exists. The funny thing is all of the bi-racial people that I know have curly hair.
 
Okay I debated on whether to post since this thread is a bit salty- but I couldn't resist
Just wanted to say that I have seen a quite few blacks (well persons with some obvious african ancestry) in both the Domincan Republic and Brazil with type 1 hair. I'm pretty darn sure the girls in Brazil were type 1 because their hair was wet on the beach and as it dried it stayed bone straight. And these girls were definately black- as dark or slightly lighter than me with other typically black features. For some reason, my personal observance is that straight/ wavy hair tends to appear more in blacks mixed with portugese and spanish blood. This only reconfirms that blacks with straight hair tend to be mixed as straight hair not a typically african characteristic. Who would have thought that to be such a controversial assertion???
 
kristina said:
This only reconfirms that blacks with straight hair tend to be mixed as straight hair not a typically african characteristic. Who would have thought that to be such a controversial assertion???

exactly. i dont see why people cant see that either.
 
Porsche19 said:
Black people are muti-racial. All of the examples I read on the first page kinda point out the fact that the black people are muti-racial.... well who the hell isn't? No matter where you go the majority of black people are mixed with SOMETHING. So saying they have straight hair because they are mixed is a little dumb to me. A good of those people aren't mixed anymore than the average person is.
great post!

guess what ladies? i have some type 2 in my head. and im black.
 
Porsche19 said:
Black people are muti-racial. All of the examples I read on the first page kinda point out the fact that the black people are muti-racial.... well who the hell isn't? No matter where you go the majority of black people are mixed with SOMETHING. So saying they have straight hair because they are mixed is a little dumb to me. A good of those people aren't mixed anymore than the average person is.

I know 1 black man and 1 black woman with straight hair. Another woman has slightly wavy hair... like type 1b or c if that hairtype exists. The funny thing is all of the bi-racial people that I know have curly hair.

The point to be made from the statement 'black people with straight hair are mixed' does not also imply that blacks without straight hair are not mixed. Yes, I know that many blacks are mixed with other stuff but I also know that many blacks in America, mixed or not, do not have straight hair. And why are we so keen to point out the fact that we are mixed? Do we get some sort of award for our non typically black traits or mixed ancestry?
It's threads like these that make me wonder how many of us (black folks) still cling to the notion that African features are not attractive.
And no, the last comments are not directed at you personally Porsche.
 
kristina said:
It's threads like these that make me wonder how many of us (black folks) still cling to the notion that African features are not attractive.


You can say that again! There are many who feel this way. :perplexed
 
Tiffany said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kristina
It's threads like these that make me wonder how many of us (black folks) still cling to the notion that African features are not attractive.



You can say that again! There are many who feel this way. :perplexed
Who said anything about African features being unattractive? Did I miss something in this thread? :confused: The purpose of this thread certainly wasn't to put down African features. That surely is ridiculous for someone to associate African features with unattractiveness.
 
Just stating that the majority of black people are mixed with something besides negroid genes and pointing out that we have many different features because of it is not saying that negroid features are unnatractive.

We need to realize that yes, many people feel badly about black features... but not all of us do. It is possible for black people to acknowlegde the fact that black people are a very diverse group not because "white is right" but because it's a FACT.
 
Thank You! For pointing out the obvious that so many ppl. seem to have missed. :clap:

kristina said:
The point to be made from the statement 'black people with straight hair are mixed' does not also imply that blacks without straight hair are not mixed. Yes, I know that many blacks are mixed with other stuff but I also know that many blacks in America, mixed or not, do not have straight hair. And why are we so keen to point out the fact that we are mixed? Do we get some sort of award for our non typically black traits or mixed ancestry?
It's threads like these that make me wonder how many of us (black folks) still cling to the notion that African features are not attractive.
And no, the last comments are not directed at you personally Porsche.
 
Poohbear said:
Does anyone know any black people with Type 1 hair???
grin.gif%22%22


Relaxed hair would be considered type 1 hair, but do you know any blacks who's hair is type 1 withOUT a relaxer???<img grin="">

After reading through this thread, I had to go back b/c I thought that I had incorrectly replied to the question / topic, but, can see that I had not. LOL!
look.gif
 
Tiffany said:
I do not believe a Black person can have straight hair without a chemical. My belief will NOT change. IF a "Black" person has naturally straight hair, they are not all Black. They got the hair texture from White, Indian, etc. blood. The "One Drop Rule" does not work for me. A person that is 1/4 Black is not a Black person. I do not remember seeing any slaves with bone straight hair. This issue is quite hilarious.

Oh but there were so called "white slaves" who were actually mixed enough to look white. Surely you have heard about them?
The famous Sally Hemingson was described as "mighty white with straight long black hair". Even if they were mostly white by heritage they were still slaves.
 
FlowerHair said:
Oh but there were so called "white slaves" who were actually mixed enough to look white. Surely you have heard about them?
The famous Sally Hemingson was described as "mighty white with straight long black hair". Even if they were mostly white by heritage they were still slaves.

Girl, whatever! They are half Black! So many of you have issues.
 
And why do people here insist on calling Ethiopians, Somalians and Eritreans non-black or mixed? That's very interesting to me. Is it because they don't look like West Africans or Central Africans?
Guess what - West Africans don't really look like Central Africans either. It's natural because Africa is the world's second largest continent.

Ethiopians do not look AT ALL Arabic IMO. Arabs are larger in their build/taller and heavier, have large noses and are very hairy. Most black Africans are not very hairy at all, and as far as I know Ethiopians have small noses that do not resemble Arab noses in the least. I really don't see the resemblance. Ethiopians have small triangular faces with pointy chins, high cheekbones and wide foreheads, Arabs have a totally different shape. Arabs are Muslim, Ethiopians are Christian. Where are the similarities?
 
Tiffany said:
Girl, whatever! They are half Black! So many of you have issues.

I know that they were half Black and even less, but they were still slaves. That was all I wanted to say, since you said there were no slaves with straight hair. Please don't get mad :)
 
I don't understand that either. I think it's because most black Americans experience with Africans are limited. And because that's what they've been told. I agree that East Africans and Arabs look very different from one another.

I will say that the East Africans that I have seen they had curly hair, but not straight.


FlowerHair said:
And why do people here insist on calling Ethiopians, Somalians and Eritreans non-black or mixed? That's very interesting to me. Is it because they don't look like West Africans or Central Africans?
Guess what - West Africans don't really look like Central Africans either. It's natural because Africa is the world's second largest continent.

Ethiopians do not look AT ALL Arabic IMO. Arabs are larger in their build/taller and heavier, have large noses and are very hairy. Most black Africans are not very hairy at all, and as far as I know Ethiopians have small noses that do not resemble Arab noses in the least. I really don't see the resemblance. Ethiopians have small triangular faces with pointy chins, high cheekbones and wide foreheads, Arabs have a totally different shape. Arabs are Muslim, Ethiopians are Christian. Where are the similarities?
 
I guess you first have to realize what the meaning of "Black/ Black American" is. IMO Black people are a mixture of one or more than one race with African being the dominate race in some cases.

Some people think that my mom is Mexican/Spanish (we think that it's out of pure ignorance)...and both of her parents are black and her grandparents are black. Yeah, her great grandparents are mixed on both sides...but so what...they called themselves Black...THEREFORE THEY ARE BLACK...MIXED OR NOT. Most, if not all, people that consider themselves to be Black Americans are all mixed at some point. Who are we to say that they are not Black because of their hair or skin color when we are mixed ourselves...and at what point do we decide whether they are Black or not. Black Americans come in all colors, and have all hair textures. IMO, if that person say that they are Black...they are black...mixed or not...PERIOD.

PB, is asking if we know or have seen people that "say" that they are black...THEREFORE THEY ARE BLACK whether their mixed or not (because we all are mixed) that have type 1 hair.

THERE IS NOOO SUCH THING AS 100%, 98% OR WHATEVER % BLACK!! WE AS BLACK AMERICANS ARE ALL MIXED AT SOME POINT.

IMO Black is more of a culture than a race because of the mixtures...and since we all don't have the same mixtures IMO Black is not and never will be a definite race...therefore theirs no such thing as 100% Black.

The Black American race is a mixture. Africa is another story. Those beautiful people, their hair textures, and features originate from Africa. I have learned that climate and whatever else determines our features and hair texture...etc. Yes, I'm sure that eventually some Africans from whatever part of Africa have mixed with other races...but again because climate is the cause of change in all races those Africans with the straighter or curly hair do originate from their particular area. Being in that particular climate for thousands of years has changed their features and hair...therefore they along with their changed features orignate from that area/that climate.ALL NATURAL CHANGE

Personally, I have not seen or know a Black American with type 1...but I don't know for sure, because who doesn't straighten their hair? Some people that we think are type 2 may be type 1. Only they and their stylists know for sure.

I don't understand how some can think that is impossible for a Black American to have type 1 hair. Ladies it’s not impossible. I'm sure that they are many...we just can't tell.

Also, as I've said in an earlier post a Black girl from my high school was the only one in her family with blue eyes. She's has known black features and type 4 hair. Why is it impossible for a Black person to inherit type 1 hair wheter they have been mixed or not. Yeah it's rare...but it's possible.
 
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I only know of one person of possible African descent with type one hair. She is from Jordan and I'm almost positive I remember her saying that she considers herself to be black even though she's not African American. (I say possible African descent because I have no idea if she has African lineage or if many people from Jordan have African, Arab, or Indian ancestors) but I'm assuming that since I'm pretty sure she identifies with being black and that she's dark that there's a good chance there's some African blood in there somewhere.

I have not yet seen a black American with type 1 hair but I'm sure that there could be some out there I just haven't seen them yet, Lol.

I am still confused about whether Aborigine people consider themselves to be black or not but I have seen pictures of some of them with possibly type 1 hair, many more looked like type 2's (slightly wavy).


This whole discussion is interesting but puts me on guard about talking about this type of stuff in real life. What I mean is that as with the case of the girl I knew from high school, some people of color from other countries consider themselves to be black and some don't no matter how dark they are and I can't keep up with which ones do and which don't. There's not a thing wrong with being black but do most darker skinned people from places such as the middle east consider themselves to be black or not?

I know that race is a social construct but I'm getting so confused about the definition of terms like black and white. Is the modern day definition of being black or white etc... more about color than culture or vice versa? I shoulda paid more attention during those darn anthropology classes, Lol :laugh:.
 
my friends niece has type 1/2 hair her brother is black not mixed with type 3 hair her mother is black not mixed with type 4 hair.

her hair is type 1 all around the edges of her head and type 2 in the middle only
 
This may be off subject.. but, when I was in college, alot of my African friends were fascinated by African American hair. Seriously. I thought it was the weirdest thing. They had so many questions about the "texture" of our hair, and what we did with it.
 
Poohbear said:
I also wish ALL black people in this world could see those pics too! :yep:

I wish all black people could learn to accept and even appreciate type 4 hair.

ETA: But that's not what this thread is about. Sorry,
 
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caress said:
I wish all black people could learn to accept and even appreciate type 4 hair.
Me too. When I said "I wish all blacks could see those pics" that was because I would like others to see that not all blacks have type 4 hair. This thread was not about not appreciating type 4 hair though. It was simply about whether you've seen a black person with type 1 hair. Nothing more. Me personally, I admire and appreciate all hair types that black people represent. :yep:
 
Poohbear said:
Me too. When I said "I wish all blacks could see those pics" that was because I would like others to see that not all blacks have type 4 hair. This thread was not about not appreciating type 4 hair though. It was simply about whether you've seen a black person with type 1 hair. Nothing more. Me personally, I admire and appreciate all hair types that black people represent. :yep:

I edited that post reading your response.
 
I almost didn't reply since the responses are so numerous and points have been made that I would have made.
However, I just wanted to say that I too, personally have seen Type 1 hair black people- 2 types: 1. the bi-racial types (for example, a Chinese/black friend of mine from Trinidad and other 'mixed' 'blacks') 2. and from the motherland types- honestly don't know if they are mixed or not from way back when or which African country they were from (but most of the Africans in the state were from Somalia and Ethiopia. Some from New Guinea), but looking at them face-on, there is no indication of any 'other'- they looked about as 'negroid' as you can get. But when I caught a glimpse of the hair underneath the headcloth, I was like :eek: . Ok, in all honesty, it could've been type 2a since I didn't see the whole thing out and down. But from what I saw, the hair they had is what you'd see on a lot of East Indians- thick, jet-black, silky hair. It looked like 1b (which is straight but like, coarse right- thick, dense). Hair like the darker ones here (especially the one with the red dot), whatever type you call it:
India019.jpg


(These are Indian children by the way)


It's simply not impossible for a 'black' person to have natural type 1 hair, as it's not impossible for a 'white' person to have natural type 4. Not common, but certainly not impossible! ;)
 
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