Same thing I was wondering..qtgirl said:
My question is who cares if there are black ppl. with type 1 hair; what does that "prove".
Same thing I was wondering..qtgirl said:
My question is who cares if there are black ppl. with type 1 hair; what does that "prove".
Nyambura said:Their hair looks completely straight to me. I guess only their hairstylists know for sure. The Types to which I was referring are the ones originated by Andre Walker, Oprah's hairstylist, based on his book. If you refer to his book, you will see that Type 1 is not the rarest hair Type and that Asians are not the only ones (btw, there is no "typical" Asian hair - that too is a stereotype; it's the largest continent in the world, with the genetic diversity to match). I think the major reason that people get confused about hair Types is not b/c of Walker's book but b/c of the misinformation that gets spread on hair boards.
As for who cares if there are black people with Type 1 hair, that's the subject of Pooh's post. If you don't care about it, then don't bother to post in the thread. Speaking for myself, it doesn't "prove" anything that there are Black people with naturally straight hair. I don't think it's that deep.
FashionistaNY said:It is very possible for a black person to have type 1 hair. My aunt, even though she is mulatto has type 1 hair. She has no type of curl pattern to her hair whatsoever. Her hair has the tendency to lay limp and look greasy if she doesn't wash it every day. Not only, if she attempts to curl her hair, almost immediately without holding sprays/gels the curls fall out and she's back to her bone straight texture.
Most of my grandfather's brothers and sisters have textures between 1 and 2. I have type 4a hair, so whose to say, possibly down the line I could have offspring who has 1 or 2 hair because it is in my genetic make-up.
Hair texture like eye color can skip generations, so I wouldn't be shocked to run across AA's with type 1 hair.
LadyChe said:I'm sure that their origins will be argued...
But. Aborigines - can be found with type 1 hair, even blond, with extremely dark skin and very little mixing of past heritage.
Genetic expression indicates that, while unlikely in a large number of cases, there are people of dark skin tone with straight hair, just like there are pale people with curly/kinky hair. Of course, straight type 1 hair is a very recessive trait, just like violet eyes.
I don't want to be another voice of derision, but I want to say sincerely - all we are is an amagamation of genes expressed to different extents. Some genes are more easily expressed, but think of it this way - If any particular "race" of people were the only ones left on the planet, given the proper amount of time and the same planetary conditions, all "races" would eventually exist (perhaps in different numerical proportions).
Nyambura said:To answer your question, Pooh, yes, I have seen Black people with Type 1 hair. Some have been North African, most have been AA or Caribbean Blacks. Sallie Richardson, the actress, comes to mind, as does Rachel (can't remember her last name) who used to be a host on BET and is from the Caribbean. I've also seen non-celebs with Type 1 hair who have two "Black" (as America defines "Black") parents.
Dolapo said:Im african and i have type 3 natural hair with some 4 at the back. There is no one from my heritage who is mixed and im pretty sure of that. I know I got my hair from my dad who got his from his mother. I should take a picture of their natural hair but they dont live here....So one doesnt have to be mixed to have a type of hair that is different from type four. I dont know where the type 3 hair came from.....In the northern part of Nigeria, the hausas and fulanis have type 2 and 3 hair and im very sure they're not mixed. Arabs never came to my country only white people and they didnt stay in the North. i think its people in the northern part of Africa that mostly have different hair types. i met a woman from tanzania who has type 2 hair but im not sure if she's mixed or not. Im thinking it depends on the weather or climate. Because its really dry and dusty in the North, nature may have let their hair be a little curly so it doesnt hold sand and dirt and so it doesnt dry out. who knows......
model_chick717 said:Just from reading all the posts--do we not see a "common" thing....most, if not all, who posted knowing someone who is "black" with type 1 hair or close to it--all have some kind of mixed heritage. Obviously type 1 hair is not a trait in black/negroid people....different races have different traits, just like Asians have a certain features i.e. eyes, etc..... There's nothing wrong with that....it's just reality.
model_chick717 said:Just from reading all the posts--do we not see a "common" thing....most, if not all, who posted knowing someone who is "black" with type 1 hair or close to it--all have some kind of mixed heritage. Obviously type 1 hair is not a trait in black/negroid people....different races have different traits, just like Asians have a certain features i.e. eyes, etc..... There's nothing wrong with that....it's just reality.
model_chick717 said:Just from reading all the posts--do we not see a "common" thing....most, if not all, who posted knowing someone who is "black" with type 1 hair or close to it--all have some kind of mixed heritage. Obviously type 1 hair is not a trait in black/negroid people....different races have different traits, just like Asians have a certain features i.e. eyes, etc..... There's nothing wrong with that....it's just reality.
LadyChe said:I'm sure that their origins will be argued...
But. Aborigines - can be found with type 1 hair, even blond, with extremely dark skin and very little mixing of past heritage.
Genetic expression indicates that, while unlikely in a large number of cases, there are people of dark skin tone with straight hair, just like there are pale people with curly/kinky hair. Of course, straight type 1 hair is a very recessive trait, just like violet eyes.
I don't want to be another voice of derision, but I want to say sincerely - all we are is an amagamation of genes expressed to different extents. Some genes are more easily expressed, but think of it this way - If any particular "race" of people were the only ones left on the planet, given the proper amount of time and the same planetary conditions, all "races" would eventually exist (perhaps in different numerical proportions).
qtgirl said:I agree a lot of erroneous info. on hairtypes is perpetuated by ppl. on hairboards. Though there is no universal Asian hairtype, most Asians have straight hair w/o any curl or wave, research it. Asian hair is usually straight, dark and of a coarse texture.
Source: P&G Hair Care Research Center
The range of different types of hair is enormous, ranging from tight wiry curls to ruler-straight. The color and shape of hair vary too. What accounts for these differences?
The type of hair you have is inherited from your parents. We may look back further, and say that it is determined by the part of the world in which your ancestors originated. It all depends on the race, or mixture of races, from which they came. In the very earliest days of human evolution, three basic racial groups of people seem to have existed on this planet. These spread out across the world and became mixed together. They are especially well mixed in countries where there has been massive immigration, such as the U.S.A. over the last few hundred years.
Scientists have identified three basic types of hair in today's human population, and have related them to these three early races:
Asian, Caucasoid and African.
The three types of hair not only look quite different, but the differences in their responses to physical and chemical damage can be remarkable.
Asian
These are people from the Orient, for example from China and Japan. Their hair is very straight, and always black in color.
Caucasoid
The Caucasoid group is the most 'varied' of the three racial groups. Modern Caucasoids are very varied, even though they are descended from the same group of ancestors. They range from the fair-skinned people of north-west Europe to the widely varying peoples of the Indian subcontinent. Their hair may be either wavy or straight, and the diameter varies widely too. The color ranges from black to a pale blond that is almost white, including just about every possible shade in between.
African
African people originated in Africa. Their hair is black and tightly curled. It tends to be woolly and dry, and is extremely easily damaged by heat or chemicals.
I care about why ppl. care therefore I can post. Also, it seems as if a lot of ppl. have something riding on whether or not black ppl. can have type 1 hair; like they're trying to prove something to someone. I'm glad it's not that "deep" to you.
katie said:I'm from the Caribbean and have never seen one black person with type 1 hair. It all depends on how you define black though. It is all so subjective.
LadyChe said:I'm sure that their origins will be argued...
But. Aborigines - can be found with type 1 hair, even blond, with extremely dark skin and very little mixing of past heritage.
Genetic expression indicates that, while unlikely in a large number of cases, there are people of dark skin tone with straight hair, just like there are pale people with curly/kinky hair. Of course, straight type 1 hair is a very recessive trait, just like violet eyes.
I don't want to be another voice of derision, but I want to say sincerely - all we are is an amagamation of genes expressed to different extents. Some genes are more easily expressed, but think of it this way - If any particular "race" of people were the only ones left on the planet, given the proper amount of time and the same planetary conditions, all "races" would eventually exist (perhaps in different numerical proportions).
FlowerHair said:Exactly, we all have those traits within us but it might not show on the outside before we breed with someone. Don't forget that the original Africans carry the traits of every race.
Poohbear said:See, this all boils down to everyone have mixed blood...
Why is it that a black person with straighter/less curlier hair is mixed?
How come a black person with type 4 hair is seen as a black person and never seen as mixed???
So how come a black person with type 1 or 2 hair can't be considered black like a black person with type 3 or 4 hair???
Nyambura said:Is your idea of research a pamphlet from Protctor & Gamble? Perhaps you should broaden your research resources. If you were to read articles published by well-respected scientific journals, for example, you would learn that geneticists have rejected "race" as a scientifically-supportable, or even definable, concept. It's been that way for a while. Race is a social construct. There are many, many threads containing disagreements about who is Black, whether a certain celebrity looks Black (or Black enough), which illustrates how fluid a definition it is. Your characterization of African people is also incorrect and stereotypical. You can consult CatSuga's posts containing photographs of Ethiopian children, or you can read Dolapo's post to see that. As an African myself, I can tell you that my hair doesn't fit your stereotype, either. But why let facts get in the way of a good story? lol.
I think your last paragraph, with respect to the participants in this particular thread, is pure projection. Again, there is no legitimate evidence to support your assertion.
qtgirl said:Slow down.
I know all about race as a social construct, but you cannot deny the varying phenotypes* of diff. "races" of humans. Although there are variations in each "racial" phenotype there are overwhelming similarities within the types. Which is why when someone's physical characteristics are out of their "racial" phenotype it is seen as a rarity or oddity, hence even the question of whether or not there are black ppl. with type 1 hair. You're not going to argue phenotypes are you? Also race is more or less just archetypes of the dominant features in a particular phenotype.
Since you seem to be in possession of more scientific journals on hair and hairtype maybe you could copy and paste what they say about hair and race.
Also, I am well aware that P&G's research is limited in respect to African characteristics I have known Africans with type 2-4 hair. So, you must have misunderstood my post in that respect.
As Modelchick previously said, there are some traits that are just synonymous with different "races" and there is nothing wrong with that.
*phenotype: the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment
As for me "projecting" anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. When ppl. are overly concerned with a particular subject and are darn near pathological on it as well, it would seem that said person has some personal stake in the outcome.
lovelymissyoli said:I thought type 1 was completely straight meaning no texture whatsoever (i.e. no wave or curl pattern)....am I wrong?? As beautiful as those Ethiopian children are, 2 of them still look as though they have type 2 or 3 hair. Now Caligirl's friend's hair sounds like type 1 but these pictures seem misleading.
As for the offspring from two black parents, I have yet to meet any that have type 1 hair...I've seen type 3 (maybe even 2) and their parents were black, however, one of their grandparents happened to be mixed race. So it seems as though if there is mixed blood somewhere in your family's ancestry/pedigree then you have the chance of having a type of hair other than 4, however, most of the A.A.'s I know have either type 3 or 4! Even in cases of bi-racial children, I have yet to meet someone with natural type 1 hair...not flat-ironed hair!!
qtgirl said:Slow down.
I know all about race as a social construct, but you cannot deny the varying phenotypes* of diff. "races" of humans. Although there are variations in each "racial" phenotype there are overwhelming similarities within the types. Which is why when someone's physical characteristics are out of their "racial" phenotype it is seen as a rarity or oddity, hence even the question of whether or not there are black ppl. with type 1 hair. You're not going to argue phenotypes are you? Also race is more or less just archetypes of the dominant features in a particular phenotype.
Since you seem to be in possession of more scientific journals on hair and hairtype maybe you could copy and paste what they say about hair and race.
Also, I am well aware that P&G's research is limited in respect to African characteristics I have known Africans with type 2-4 hair. So, you must have misunderstood my post in that respect.
As Modelchick previously said, there are some traits that are just synonymous with different "races" and there is nothing wrong with that.
*phenotype: the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment
As for me "projecting" anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. When ppl. are overly concerned with a particular subject and are darn near pathological on it as well, it would seem that said person has some personal stake in the outcome.
model_chick717 said:PREACH! haha, I'm STILL wondering why the discussion is getting so "heated".....:scratchch
Crysdon said:You are not wrong missyoli. I have yet to see/meet a non-mixed race Black person with type 1 hair. I believe people who say they have don't really know Andre's hair typing system. BTW - I don't know where, but I believe I saw someone on here post that they or their mother has type 1b. What is one 1b??? Type 1 hair is straight, period.
Type 1
Is straight hair, which has doesn’t have any type of wave of curl pattern
1. Straight hair
2. Wavy hair
A - Fine & Thin
B - Medium
C - Thick & Coarse
3. Curly hair
A - Loose loopy curls
B - More defined curls to very well defined curls (ringlets)
C - Tight coils with frizz
4. Kinky hair (Oprah's hair)
A - Tightly curly - S shape like Type 3
B - Wiry - Z pattern
Dolapo said:Im african and i have type 3 natural hair with some 4 at the back. There is no one from my heritage who is mixed and im pretty sure of that.
Nyambura said:If you re-read your own post, your invitation for me to conduct research came right after your discussion of Asian hair. I'm not going to cut and paste articles from journals that are not online but you are welcome to make the effort yourself to go to a bricks-and-mortar library and look up the journals yourself. "Phenotypes" schmenotypes It's impossible to limit Africans to one phenotype just as it's impossible with Asians. Some of us have slim "pointy" noses, others wide and flat (that's on both continents). Just as "race" is not a scientifically-valid entity, and has been rejected for some time as such, so is the idea that the genetic similarities among "races" (for example, "Blacks") is greater than the genetic similarities between "races" (for example, between "Blacks" and "Whites.") But we're getting waaaay off topic here.
As for being pathological or overly concerned, again, there is no evidence in this thread to support your conjecture. Honestly, I don't think that PoohBear is pathological, or necessarily overly concerned, about Type 1 hair to post about it, lol. It's a hair care forum. What better place to discuss hair? Of all types? And if discussing it makes us pathological or overly concerned, what does that say about you for being a participant?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say nobody in this thread, including you, is pathological or overly concerned about Type 1 hair.
Good luck to you, qtgirl.
baglady215 said:Just curious, but how can you be so sure?