So Your Brother Shoots You In The Eye......

Would You Forgive Your Brother For Shooting You 5 times?

  • Yes.

  • No.

Results are only viewable after voting.
See, once is an accident (perhaps), any more than that is deliberate. He tried to kill her and now like a PP said, she's permanently disfigured and disabled. Sorry dude. He'd have to ride out those 45.

At some point maybe I'd forgive, but it certainly wouldn't have been in time for his trial.

ETA: Alcohol isn't an excuse and sometimes "family" is overrated.
 
chocolat79 said:
See, once is an accident (perhaps), any more than that is deliberate. He tried to kill her and now like a PP said, she's permanently disfigured and disabled. Sorry dude. He'd have to ride out those 45.

At some point maybe I'd forgive, but it certainly wouldn't have been in time for his trial.

ETA: Alcohol isn't an excuse and sometimes "family" is overrated.
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This is the main thing. Anyone does anything 5 times, they meant to do it! Someone trying to shoot you 5 times in the head is trying to kill you.
 
The only way I could see him shooting her five times without meaning to is if he were on some kind of psychedelic drug and was hallucinating something he wanted to kill. Or if he has some kind of undiagnosed mental health issue that caused him to hallucinate and he was using alcohol to self medicate?

If it was not any of that, I wonder what his motivation would have been and what kind of relationship they had prior? That might shed light on her thought process.

That said, what happened was still horrifying and she still would need to learn to set boundaries for herself, for her son and learn to separate her sense of burden/duty/ responsibility from others especially from him. It is like she is trying to make everything right again as though she is the one responible for this horror instead of allowing him to own it.
 
Wow , she is on a whole different level. I couldn’t do it , but I’m amazed she can. I can’t judge her journey. It’s hers to take and with her mindset she’ll probably attract many great things. A situation like she has been through could’ve killed her physically and mentally, she has to do what she needs to do to continue to strive. She has to look at the event in way that will allow her to continue living. I bet that forgiveness is more for her than him.

I have a hard time trying to be around folks that have lied on me or betrayed my trust, so I couldn’t imagine this lol
 
calm_delight said:
Some people don't understand that you can forgive and at the same time, never speak to or deal with a person ever again.
Click to expand...
People have changed the meaning of forgiveness so that they can claim that's what they are doing. Forgiveness is absolution. It's not forgiveness if you still feel so strongly about a transgression that you don't ever want to see the person again. I'm saying this as someone with a long list of people I haven't talked to for decades. They are not forgiven because I can't be around them.

I am not saying people have to be Jesus or Jesus like but imagine if the foundation of Christianity was "Christ died to forgive your sins BUT, on god, you bet not never call him for nothing else again." It don't quite sound right to forgive and still hold a grudge. When Sallie Mae forgives a loan, you don't owe them anything and are welcome to come back and get another loan from them.

Absolution and squashed beef are built into the definition of forgiveness.
 
Crackers Phinn said:
Do you have any examples of the problems not forgiving causes?
Click to expand...
Autoimmune diseases
Depression
Anxiety
Obesity
And other forms of mental illness that may develop
Walking around holding somebody prisoner in your mind will cause problems that will manifest in other aspects of your life.
You (general) not forgiving them does nothing for them. They are still gonna live their life and mess over somebody else’s life, while you holding on to the evil they infected you (generally speaking) with.

Plus it causes wrinkles..
I know of too many sick and mean people that are that way because they are trying to win some holding grudge contest. Their energy is toxic.
 
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Crackers Phinn said:
People have changed the meaning of forgiveness so that they can claim that's what they are doing. Forgiveness is absolution. It's not forgiveness if you still feel so strongly about a transgression that you don't ever want to see the person again. I'm saying this as someone with a long list of people I haven't talked to for decades. They are not forgiven because I can't be around them.

I am not saying people have to be Jesus or Jesus like but imagine if the foundation of Christianity was "Christ died to forgive your sins BUT, on god, you bet not never call him for nothing else again." It don't quite sound right to forgive and still hold a grudge. When Sallie Mae forgives a loan, you don't owe them anything and are welcome to come back and get another loan from them.

Absolution and squashed beef are built into the definition of forgiveness.
Click to expand...
I can forgive, but if you tried to take my life, I don’t feel safe around you. I don’t trust that you have my best interest at heart. You didn’t value my life, but I have a right to value mine. I’ve been molested, raped, abused, taken advantage of, etc.. but I can’t walk around here holding on to that stuff. I would be stuck. But I’m not going to reconcile and break bread with a molester or rapist. I don’t wish them ill either.
 
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Evolving78 said:
Autoimmune diseases
Depression
Anxiety
Obesity
And other forms of mental illness that may develop
Walking around holding somebody prisoner in your mind will cause problems that will manifest in other aspects of your life.
You (general) not forgiving them does nothing for them. They are still gonna live their life and mess over somebody else’s life, while you holding on to the evil they infected you (generally speaking) with.

Plus it causes wrinkles..
I know of too many sick and mean people that are that way because they are trying to win some holding grudge contest. Their energy is toxic.
Click to expand...
The lady in the OP experienced depression and loss of self esteem and I'm sure a whole lot of the other items on your list because she woke up from the coma her brother put her in with no eye . It's the no eye part, the being wronged part, that's still causing her problems to this day. Forgiveness is not offsetting the treatment plan.

Consider this:

My homegirl backed my car into the garage and hit something that was protruding from the wall. This caused a dent and a nasty scratch. She apologized and I said "don't worry about it" and I meant it. She could have banged up the whole the car and I would have said "don't worry about it" and I would have meant it. Hell, I'd still let her drive my car if she asked me today. Forgiveness is linked to the forgiver being unbothered about being wronged.

If this same homegirl who I love like a sister shot me 5 times and I had to look (with my good eye) at an empty eye socket for the rest of my life, it's the sixth letter of the alphabet her, forever. If I develop anxiety, obesity, depression and all the other things you mention, it's because I ain't got my eye no more, not because I didn't forgive her.

The lady in the OP does truly forgives her brother. Ain't none of this, well I forgive you but you out of my life forever, no, she has granted the absolution that true forgiveness demands. She feels the same way about the loss of her eye as I do about a scratch on my car and that's okay for her. Her forgiveness threshold is high.
 
I might forgive you after a while but you still have to accept the consequences. Yes, you will be serving the entire sentence and yes, our relationship would be forever altered. I must have missed the part where HE apologized for his actions and explained his behavior. Being an alcoholic and going through tough times does not excuse attempted murder. I also must have missed the part where HE asked for forgiveness for his actions and showed a change in behavior.

I am not God- I don't know that I can forgive you and not hold a grudge or have some sort of feeling towards you if you shot me 5 times. It might be something that God would have to work out in me because it would take supernatural strength to see you and not recall how you tried to kill me.
 
Based on my interpretation of the Bible, forgiveness means not forcing someone to repay a debt that is owed, or to compensate you for their offense. It means not holding on to bitterness and resentment. The person who wronged you is supposed to acknowledge the offense and be remorseful, and they still have to deal with the consequences of their actions. It doesn't mean you have to maintain a relationship with the person and pretend the offense never happened.
 
Crackers Phinn said:
The lady in the OP experienced depression and loss of self esteem and I'm sure a whole lot of the other items on your list because she woke up from the coma her brother put her in with no eye . It's the no eye part, the being wronged part, that's still causing her problems to this day. Forgiveness is not offsetting the treatment plan.

Consider this:

My homegirl backed my car into the garage and hit something that was protruding from the wall. This caused a dent and a nasty scratch. She apologized and I said "don't worry about it" and I meant it. She could have banged up the whole the car and I would have said "don't worry about it" and I would have meant it. Hell, I'd still let her drive my car if she asked me today. Forgiveness is linked to the forgiver being unbothered about being wronged.

If this same homegirl who I love like a sister shot me 5 times and I had to look (with my good eye) at an empty eye socket for the rest of my life, it's the sixth letter of the alphabet her, forever. If I develop anxiety, obesity, depression and all the other things you mention, it's because I ain't got my eye no more, not because I didn't forgive her.

The lady in the OP does truly forgives her brother. Ain't none of this, well I forgive you but you out of my life forever, no, she has granted the absolution that true forgiveness demands. She feels the same way about the loss of her eye as I do about a scratch on my car and that's okay for her. Her forgiveness threshold is high.
Click to expand...
I don’t agree with your definition of forgiveness. And her making peace with her brother and reconciling with him is beyond forgiveness. I believe forgiveness is letting go and not harboring resentment and anger towards someone and it takes away the victim hood status.
It cost a lot house prisoners in the physical realm, so I believe it’s just as expensive, time consuming, and energy draining keeping someone a prisoner in the mind. Forgiveness opens the door to healing and moving forward.

That lady is still alive and she decided not to use up her time on this earth being angry and resentful towards her brother.

Her continuing a relationship with him is another story. Sounds like trauma bonding to me.
 
FoxxyLocs said:
Based on my interpretation of the Bible, forgiveness means not forcing someone to repay a debt that is owed, or to compensate you for their offense. It means not holding on to bitterness and resentment. The person who wronged you is supposed to acknowledge the offense and be remorseful, and they still have to deal with the consequences of their actions. It doesn't mean you have to maintain a relationship with the person and pretend the offense never happened.
Click to expand...


My pastor preached a sermon on forgiveness. He too advocates forgiving and simultaneously removing toxic individuals from your life. Sometimes self preservation means certain individuals can no longer be a part of your life due to their actions.
 
Crackers Phinn said:
People have changed the meaning of forgiveness so that they can claim that's what they are doing. Forgiveness is absolution. It's not forgiveness if you still feel so strongly about a transgression that you don't ever want to see the person again. I'm saying this as someone with a long list of people I haven't talked to for decades. They are not forgiven because I can't be around them.

I am not saying people have to be Jesus or Jesus like but imagine if the foundation of Christianity was "Christ died to forgive your sins BUT, on god, you bet not never call him for nothing else again." It don't quite sound right to forgive and still hold a grudge. When Sallie Mae forgives a loan, you don't owe them anything and are welcome to come back and get another loan from them.

Absolution and squashed beef are built into the definition of forgiveness.
Click to expand...
I do understand and agree with what you are saying. However, life is full of so much stuff that needs to be done and people that you are actually trying to catch up with and maintain relationships with, it really isn't hard to not deal with a person again even if you aren't doing it as a result of harboring negativity. This is especially true if you do not live in your hometown and the person isn't near you anymore. I am just thinking of how many people I love seeing but I hardly ever run into when I am not in my hometown, or people I only run into when I am with a relative. When it comes to toxic people I love, me not being around them isn't even a situation where I am intentionally avoiding them it's just easy to lose touch when I am focused on my priorities. Maybe the thing that always brought me around them was toxic and when the toxic thing got handled we could focus on other priorities and that caused us to lose touch. Priorities get my time, thoughts, feelings, resources, emotions etc. It's really easy for them to not be part of my life anymore long after absolution. That is what I thought of when I read @calm_delight 's post. I thought of how easy it is for people to fade from your life naturally because you have moved on, not from them but from the toxic thing that always brought you two together. Of course, I am unsure if that is the perspective @calm_delight was talking about but that is what her post made me think of. In my experience, if a person not a priority to me (no matter what caused that to be the case), and there isn't something imminent that I am nurturing in the relationship daily then it is really is easy for me to lose touch without being mad or actively avoiding them. It's a real thing to to realize what you feel is nonchalance when people expect it to be this intense love, hate, passion, loyalty or devotion in a situation that ran it's course. It's also a real thing to fall back into a groove with someone you haven't seen in years just like old times when you do see them. @Crackers Phinn I am glad you brought up your point and I agree with you. I am not about to sit up here and act like people don't talk about forgiveness but act constipated when someone mentions a name or scenario that they can't forgive. Saying you forgive someone but harboring negativity isn't forgiveness . That said, I see a lot of variations where moving on will remove a person from your life that you aren't mad or angry at at all. Instead, you have just let the scenario you were initially in with them to run it's course and nothing new or existing causes you to need interaction so it just doesn't happen. This is a good topic

Edited: Fixed a few typos. Meaning is the same.
 
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So, who didn’t he forgive that caused him to become mentally unstable, sip some syrup, lean and dust, and make him shoot her five times? She forgave him, his sentence was reduced and now when he comes out in 10 years and finds a new brand of acid to trip off of, tries to kill someone again, do we forgive her or him?

Too many people misuse forgiveness. Like I said before, perhaps my soul is set up differently, but not every thing in life is up for a forgiveness debate. Not every person, place or thing is subject to be forgiven or receive forgiveness.
 
Crackers Phinn said:
People have changed the meaning of forgiveness so that they can claim that's what they are doing. Forgiveness is absolution. It's not forgiveness if you still feel so strongly about a transgression that you don't ever want to see the person again. I'm saying this as someone with a long list of people I haven't talked to for decades. They are not forgiven because I can't be around them.

I am not saying people have to be Jesus or Jesus like but imagine if the foundation of Christianity was "Christ died to forgive your sins BUT, on god, you bet not never call him for nothing else again." It don't quite sound right to forgive and still hold a grudge. When Sallie Mae forgives a loan, you don't owe them anything and are welcome to come back and get another loan from them.

Absolution and squashed beef are built into the definition of forgiveness.
Click to expand...

I was taught "forgive and forget" OR "talk it out and make peace". Forgive and forget was for lesser offenses where they other person may not even know that they've upset you. Forgivess was meant to be absolute and then you forget they even offended you in the first place. If I'm being a good Christian, in her situation I would make peace but keep my distance because his spirit is toxic and we are encouraged to love from a distance when necessary.

I'd be mentally rewriting my childhood to exclude him while he serves 45. Personally, I'm a forget you exist person even for people I have no issue with but haven't talked to in a while. It's not personal, my brain just takes "out of sight, out of mind" too literally.
 
Saludable84 said:
So, who didn’t he forgive that caused him to become mentally unstable, sip some syrup, lean and dust, and make him shoot her five times? She forgave him, his sentence was reduced and now when he comes out in 10 years and finds a new brand of acid to trip off of, tries to kill someone again, do we forgive her or him?

Too many people misuse forgiveness. Like I said before, perhaps my soul is set up differently, but not every thing in life is up for a forgiveness debate. Not every person, place or thing is subject to be forgiven or receive forgiveness.
Click to expand...

I’ll be taking this and using it for other conversations
 
Alcohol only lowers your inhibitions and reveals your true self. So no, he didn’t shoot you because he was drunk. He shot you because he is a violent shooter.

Angry drunks are angry people.
Mean drunks are people with bitterness and resentment.

Alcohol is truth serum.

Now maybe if he was on some hallucinogenic drugs that’d be something else. But even then I may forgive you but as far our relationship I would tell you to go with God somewhere where I’m not...
 
Artemis24 said:
I was taught "forgive and forget" OR "talk it out and make peace". Forgive and forget was for lesser offenses where they other person may not even know that they've upset you. Forgivess was meant to be absolute and then you forget they even offended you in the first place. If I'm being a good Christian, in her situation I would make peace but keep my distance because his spirit is toxic and we are encouraged to love from a distance when necessary.
Click to expand...

I was taught the same, and that if you didn't then you weren't being a good Christian. Over time, I learnt that you can't 'wipe the slate clean' for some people. If they hurt you, and you 'forget' they'll come right back and hurt you all over again, if you let them.
 
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