Single Ladies: More Prayers For a Godly Husband.

[LucieLoo12]

We are in human flesh, but the bible says if we walk in the Spirit, we will not fullfill the lusts of the flesh. The bible says who ever is led by the Spirit of God, are the sons of God. The bible says the Spirit of God leads us into all truth and reproves a world of sin. So if we are constantly being led by the spirit of God, it will lead us into righteousness, not sinning .But we have to be taught how to be led by it.

Before I answer, I want to preface my answer by saying that this is my own interpretation, I am not saying I am right, and definitely will pray for clarity if I am wrong. If anyone else think I am wrong, please feel free to point me in the right direction

I believe that because we are spirit being living in a human body we will never be without sin, or perfect. I think the perfection those scriptures talk about is a claim of perfection through Christ, meaning because Christ is perfect we have a claim to perfection. So it's through constant confession of our sins and forgiveness of Christ where we can claim perfection, not because we will ever be perfect or sinless, but because we should always have a heart to confess/atone our sins. I hope I am somewhat clear.

 

[Poohbear]

^^ Means "strive" and examine. The precedent is in "Old" Testament with the laws of examination upon eating etc. You look for perfection in the food, in ritual etc. Does it mean no one's ever accidentally eaten a worm in their lettuce? No. Cuz if we could all be perfect, He would never have told us to stay on the path until the very end and to confess...the majority wouldn't have needed it. ETA: I mean "would" not could, cuz it's possible, just not likely to never sin again.

auparavant - no offense to you, but I am sick and tired of hearing the word "strive". No where in the bible does it say, "strive for perfection". I'm gonna tell you a short little story about this crazy girl I know. She was talking about how she is a true Christian but has sex with different men and that none of us are perfect and she is striving for perfection. How in the world is she striving for perfection if she is willingly and knowingly having premarital sex with different men!? It was sickening and digusting to hear her say this, and I just simply disagreed with her.

The Word of God actually says this in Hebrews 6:1-3: "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit."

The Bible is saying let us "go" on unto perfection.... meaning to "move on" or "proceed with" or to "continue in a certain state or condition" which would be perfection in this verse... it does not say to strive which means to try hard or give your best effort. Strive gives leeway for mistakes and excuses.

And in those verses that Alicialynn86 posted, it does not say to "try to be perfect", it says "be perfect".

 

[LucieLoo12]

Poohbear,

Strive just means to make great effort to achieve something. Now, I believe when we are striving we will achieve it....some think you just strive all yall your life and dont get it. I dont agree with that. Paul, said he press towards the mark of the high calling, which he knew he had not made it there yet..but he was on his way. I believe 100% in perfection, because its the bible, but am i there yet? No, but I am on my way.

I do agree, people use "God know my heart", "God aint done with me yet" to make excuses and that is not right, when someone know they are living in blatant sin..

People fight so hard against perfection, because they dont understand it..

@auparavant - no offense to you, but I am sick and tired of hearing the word "strive". No where in the bible does it say, "strive for perfection". I'm gonna tell you a short little story about this crazy girl I know. She was talking about how she is a true Christian but has sex with different men and that none of us are perfect and she is striving for perfection. How in the world is she striving for perfection if she is willingly and knowingly having premarital sex with different men!? It was sickening and digusting to hear her say this, and I just simply disagreed with her.

The Word of God actually says this in Hebrews 6:1-3: "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit."

The Bible is saying let us "go" on unto perfection.... meaning to "move on" or "proceed with" or to "continue in a certain state or condition" which would be perfection in this verse... it does not say to strive which means to try hard or give your best effort. Strive gives leeway for mistakes and excuses.

And in those verses that @Alicialynn86 posted, it does not say to "try to be perfect", it says "be perfect".

 

[auparavant]

Would it make any difference if the example were not sex but an outburst of anger, or impatience, sloth for a second on Saturday, eating that extra portion of meat or dessert, feeling a tinge of jealousy against another woman or man, unforgiveness against the criminal on the news...? Those are all opportunities to sin. Are you bound for hell cuz you committed those or others you might not have realized at the time? Why is the example always "accidentally falling in bed with a man?" Fence laws/protections can help anyone avoid those - don't be alone with someone you find attractive, don't pet, don't tongue kiss, what what you consumer via media etc., date with a chaperon if you're totally out of control or get married.

As anything in the scriptures, read them as G-d intended and context is everything. Some things are absolutely literal, others are allegory and yet others are parables meant to teach you how to "strive" to be totally united to G-d. If He didn't know we'd sin, He would not have given us reconciliation and scripture for how to get back on the right path. It's called...focus. What is your focus? If you lose your balance on the road, does that mean you're a total failure? No. The focus must be on YOUR life's walk, not that of another.

 

[LoveisYou]

We are in human flesh, but the bible says if we walk in the Spirit, we will not fullfill the lusts of the flesh. The bible says who ever is led by the Spirit of God, are the sons of God. The bible says the Spirit of God leads us into all truth and reproves a world of sin. So if we are constantly being led by the spirit of God, it will lead us into righteousness, not sinning .But we have to be taught how to be led by it.

But even being led by the Spirit, will we ever be truly perfect without sin, Paul was being led by the Spirit but still spoke about a thorn in his flesh? I have a lot of questions, because I have never been taught or heard about this absolute perfection of Christians.
I have been taught that we can claim holiness through Christ, that we must be set apart from the world, that we must live according to God's Word. But this is the first time that I've heard that Christians can achieve absolute perfection in our earthly bodies. Holiness as I've been taught doesn't mean freedom from mistakes, even if they're unintentional, it means that sin no longer has dominion over us. In other words, I don't equate holiness with perfection.

 

[Crown]

Are ALL threads must end in this same way?

 

[LucieLoo12]

I agree..sin is sin..No sin is greater than the other. I dont think anyone was seperating any sin from the other..

And you right, God did know we would sin, that why he sent Jesus Christ. That Christ may show us that you can live this life without sin...to help us to return to our original state, when God said He made man in His image, but MAN sought out may inventions.


No one is saying that a Christian is invincible to sin, what is being said, is that a Christian can live a life without sin...and that God can bring you to a state of perfection/completion. Bring meaning to approach unto, not "zap" into perfection...

He makes provisions for us if we happen to fall into a snare or sin....but NOWHERE in scripture is it justified that a believer should live in a continual state/lifestyle of sin

Would it make any difference if the example were not sex but an outburst of anger, or impatience, sloth for a second on Saturday, eating that extra portion of meat or dessert, feeling a tinge of jealousy against another woman or man, unforgiveness against the criminal on the news...? Those are all opportunities to sin. Are you bound for hell cuz you committed those or others you might not have realized at the time? Why is the example always "accidentally falling in bed with a man?" Fence laws/protections can help anyone avoid those - don't be alone with someone you find attractive, don't pet, don't tongue kiss, what what you consumer via media etc., date with a chaperon if you're totally out of control or get married.

As anything in the scriptures, read them as G-d intended and context is everything. Some things are absolutely literal, others are allegory and yet others are parables meant to teach you how to "strive" to be totally united to G-d. If He didn't know we'd sin, He would not have given us reconciliation and scripture for how to get back on the right path. It's called...focus. What is your focus? If you lose your balance on the road, does that mean you're a total failure? No. The focus must be on YOUR life's walk, not that of another.

 

[sidney]

We are in human flesh, but the bible says if we walk in the Spirit, we will not fullfill the lusts of the flesh. The bible says who ever is led by the Spirit of God, are the sons of God. The bible says the Spirit of God leads us into all truth and reproves a world of sin. So if we are constantly being led by the spirit of God, it will lead us into righteousness, not sinning .But we have to be taught how to be led by it.

I think I just got a revelation from your podt on perfection, oh goodness, thankyou!!! Needed this, more than you know!!!

 

[Poohbear]

Are ALL threads must end in this same way?

I don't know about you Crown, but I just feel like sin is a serious matter and it is something I would love to overcome as a Christian. I do not feel like I'm setting myself apart from the world if I commit a sin. I don't feel like I'm going on to perfection if I commit a sin. I don't feel like sin has no power or dominion over me if I commit a sin... that just sounds contradictory. "I walk in Christ but still sin" after Jesus done said, "Go and sin no more."

 

[LucieLoo12]

I dont mind the questions at all...

Paul did speak of a thorn, but what makes you think it was a sin?

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.


Paul said there was GIVEN him a "thorn", so he would'nt be able to glory in himself.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

He said he sought God on it continously, so it couldn't have been a sin, because I promise you, if you seeking God to be free from sin, He would free you. So though scripture did not say per say what the thorn was, we know that it wasn't sin because Paul said in:

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

And we know Paul wasn't a hyprocrite. He said in Romans 8, that sin would not have dominion over us. Meaning sin should not have power of the believer. So if sin has no power over us, should we continue to fall to it? If thats the case we know that we are willfully doing it....


A thorn can be something you can't get rid of, or it can be a result of something negative in your life..A thorn can be a sickness, bad marriage etc..Moses thorn may be consider his speech problem. Its just a issue that can cause oppression...
Thorn is defined as A source of discomfort, annoyance, or difficulty; an irritation or an obstacle.

you spoke of achieveing perfection in our earthly bodies....

If you are looking at this is a carnal realm, you wont understand it.

Paul said this:

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul had the mindset that his purpose was to glorify God in his body, that his life was totally for the will of God. Alot of reasons people sin is because they don't know their purpose, or they are trying to serve themselves(flesh) and God..and you can't.

He said the life he lives in his flesh (body) he nows lives unto Jesus Christ. So if someone is living their life unto Jesus, would they be in the club? Would they be having pre martial sex? Would they do drugs? Would they curse people out? NO, because they have the understanding that I "Alicia", no longers lives for Alicia, but I live unto Christ.

You know why people sin? Because they want to satisfy thier flesh. You know why they want to satisfy their flesh? Because they have taught themselves bad habits. You know why we teach our selves bad habits? Because the bible says we are born and shaped into iniquity. By nature we are born into a sinful nature after the fall of Adam. thats why Christ died, to bring us back to where mankind should be. thats why we have to be born again by the Spirit of God. Salvation is a supernatural work when God transformes the heart of a man. I know we all believe that God can change a man, so why is it so hard to believe that God can change a man COMPLETELY, to where he does not even desire sin anymore?

Romans 8 said they that are in the flesh can not please God. So if we are no longer operating to the emotions and feelings of our flesh, where would this sinning be coming from? We sin because we are operating in the flesh, and God has told him, we can not please him operating in our flesh. We must live this life through the Spirt of God.

I know you said you have been taught differently. I just want to encourage you to never go off of what men "say", always search the scriptures for yourself. EVEN with me, if you think what I am saying is wrong, please search the scriptures.

When Moses seen the bush burning and it was God. God told him to take his shoes off because it was holy ground. God wouldnt even allow dirty shoes in his presence. So how do people think they can live a life a sin and enter into the presence of God.

But even being led by the Spirit, will we ever be truly perfect without sin, Paul was being led by the Spirit but still spoke about a thorn in his flesh? I have a lot of questions, because I have never been taught or heard about this absolute perfection of Christians.
I have been taught that we can claim holiness through Christ, that we must be set apart from the world, that we must live according to God's Word. But this is the first time that I've heard that Christians can achieve absolute perfection in our earthly bodies. Holiness as I've been taught doesn't mean freedom from mistakes, even if they're unintentional, it means that sin no longer has dominion over us. In other words, I don't equate holiness with perfection.

 

[Poohbear]

I dont mind the questions at all...

Paul did speak of a thorn, but what makes you think it was a sin?

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.


Paul said there was GIVEN him a "thorn", so he would'nt be able to glory in himself.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

He said he sought God on it continously, so it couldn't have been a sin, because I promise you, if you seeking God to be free from sin, He would free you. So though scripture did not say per say what the thorn was, we know that it wasn't sin because Paul said in:

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

And we know Paul wasn't a hyprocrite. He said in Romans 8, that sin would not have dominion over us. Meaning sin should not have power of the believer. So if sin has no power over us, should we continue to fall to it? If thats the case we know that we are willfully doing it....


A thorn can be something you can't get rid of, or it can be a result of something negative in your life..A thorn can be a sickness, bad marriage etc..Moses thorn may be consider his speech problem. Its just a issue that can cause oppression...
Thorn is defined as A source of discomfort, annoyance, or difficulty; an irritation or an obstacle.

This is exactly how I saw a thorn in the flesh to be.... not a sin that he was struggling with...

 

[Crown]

I don't know about you @Crown, but I just feel like sin is a serious matter and it is something I would love to overcome as a Christian. I do not feel like I'm setting myself apart from the world if I commit a sin. I don't feel like I'm going on to perfection if I commit a sin. I don't feel like sin has no power or dominion over me if I commit a sin... that just sounds contradictory. "I walk in Christ but still sin" after Jesus done said, "Go and sin no more."

You are right Poohbear, you don't know about me.
I am not obsessed by sin.

I am denying myself daily, it's not easy but with obedience... I take my cross, follow Christ, abide in the Word.
He is doing the work.

 

[loolalooh]

I agree..sin is sin..No sin is greater than the other. I dont think anyone was seperating any sin from the other..

And you right, God did know we would sin, that why he sent Jesus Christ. That Christ may show us that you can live this life without sin...to help us to return to our original state, when God said He made man in His image, but MAN sought out may inventions.


No one is saying that a Christian is invincible to sin, what is being said, is that a Christian can live a life without sin...and that God can bring you to a state of perfection/completion. Bring meaning to approach unto, not "zap" into perfection...

He makes provisions for us if we happen to fall into a snare or sin....but NOWHERE in scripture is it justified that a believer should live in a continual state/lifestyle of sin

Poohbear, I know you read Alicialynn's post, but I'm going to highlight the bolded. I gather from your posts, Poohbear, that you equate being Christian with automatically being sinless. That if a Christian commits a sin, how are they really a Christian. (Correct me if I am misinterpreting your words.) It is a process towards perfection.

 

[LoveisYou]

I dont mind the questions at all...

Paul did speak of a thorn, but what makes you think it was a sin?

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.


Paul said there was GIVEN him a "thorn", so he would'nt be able to glory in himself.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

He said he sought God on it continously, so it couldn't have been a sin, because I promise you, if you seeking God to be free from sin, He would free you. So though scripture did not say per say what the thorn was, we know that it wasn't sin because Paul said in:

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

And we know Paul wasn't a hyprocrite. He said in Romans 8, that sin would not have dominion over us. Meaning sin should not have power of the believer. So if sin has no power over us, should we continue to fall to it? If thats the case we know that we are willfully doing it....


A thorn can be something you can't get rid of, or it can be a result of something negative in your life..A thorn can be a sickness, bad marriage etc..Moses thorn may be consider his speech problem. Its just a issue that can cause oppression...
Thorn is defined as A source of discomfort, annoyance, or difficulty; an irritation or an obstacle.

you spoke of achieveing perfection in our earthly bodies....

If you are looking at this is a carnal realm, you wont understand it.

Paul said this:

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul had the mindset that his purpose was to glorify God in his body, that his life was totally for the will of God. Alot of reasons people sin is because they don't know their purpose, or they are trying to serve themselves(flesh) and God..and you can't.

He said the life he lives in his flesh (body) he nows lives unto Jesus Christ. So if someone is living their life unto Jesus, would they be in the club? Would they be having pre martial sex? Would they do drugs? Would they curse people out? NO, because they have the understanding that I "Alicia", no longers lives for Alicia, but I live unto Christ.

You know why people sin? Because they want to satisfy thier flesh. You know why they want to satisfy their flesh? Because they have taught themselves bad habits. You know why we teach our selves bad habits? Because the bible says we are born and shaped into iniquity. By nature we are born into a sinful nature after the fall of Adam. thats why Christ died, to bring us back to where mankind should be. thats why we have to be born again by the Spirit of God. Salvation is a supernatural work when God transformes the heart of a man. I know we all believe that God can change a man, so why is it so hard to believe that God can change a man COMPLETELY, to where he does not even desire sin anymore?

Romans 8 said they that are in the flesh can not please God. So if we are no longer operating to the emotions and feelings of our flesh, where would this sinning be coming from? We sin because we are operating in the flesh, and God has told him, we can not please him operating in our flesh. We must live this life through the Spirt of God.

I know you said you have been taught differently. I just want to encourage you to never go off of what men "say", always search the scriptures for yourself. EVEN with me, if you think what I am saying is wrong, please search the scriptures.

When Moses seen the bush burning and it was God. God told him to take his shoes off because it was holy ground. God wouldnt even allow dirty shoes in his presence. So how do people think they can live a life a sin and enter into the presence of God.

That's exactly what I do, have been doing and still.....I am unclear. I'll pray, because Jesus died for the atonement for our sins, not just when we were living in sin but also for when we sin as Chrisitans. I am not in anyway shape or form encouraging willful sins, yet I don't see in the scriptures or otherwise how any man can truly be without sin, there are sins we commit unknowingly! We are commanded to awake to righteous, we are commanded to flee from sin, but I still don't see how those scriptures support the idea of perfection. We can flee from sin, we can seek after righteousness, we can be holy, and still not be perfect. That's my point, holiness, righteousness, sanctification etc. is a process, but it's not a perfect one. I don't believe any of us will reach perfection until we leave this Earth.

 

[Crown]

I don't know about you @Crown, but I just feel like sin is a serious matter and it is something I would love to overcome as a Christian. I do not feel like I'm setting myself apart from the world if I commit a sin. I don't feel like I'm going on to perfection if I commit a sin. I don't feel like sin has no power or dominion over me if I commit a sin... that just sounds contradictory. "I walk in Christ but still sin" after Jesus done said, "Go and sin no more."

"Go and sin no more."

Jn 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery...
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

 

[CoilyFields]

LoveisYou

Not until coming to this forum had I ever heard any Christian say that it was possible to actually achieve perfection here on earth and that the achieving of such would determine their eternal destination. Even the ones that believed you could lose your salvation thought it was only limited to certain (visible) sins.

Not sure if you've read the other threads where we discussed this...

1. I think a lot of folks equate the recognition (that in this flesh we will never be perfect so will sin) with the passifying of sin (ie its ok to sin because we "can't help it"). The two are not the same at all.

2. I was taught this: We could NOT fulfill the law (that God gave in the Old testament), and needed a savior to fill it for us...thereby releasing us from salvation by works (earning our way to heaven by not sinning/keeping the law), and granting us salvation by grace (accepting the gift in faith that Jesus has fulfilled what we could not).

3. So all of the scriptures about perfection, and never sinning again etc. are actually encouraging us to conform our bodies to the perfection of the spirit that we have inherited. I do NOT in any way believe that these scriptures are saying that if we commit a sin (willful or unwillful) after we are saved and have not repented before we die then we go to hell. Our position, in Christ, is perfect, (becuase he traded his righteousness for our unrighteousness, guaranteeing our eternal destination) but our condition, in the flesh, must constantly be conformed/transformed. It is a war between the desires of our flesh and the spirit that we stridently fight, but knowing that we will not experience the complete victory over until the return of Jesus. And THAT does not give us liscense to sin.

This is what Ive been taught. And as auparavant said the "big" sins are easy to point out as needing to be overcome but what about others like jealousy or gossip, or not studying or wanting vengence? I refuse to believe that if I died right now and have not achieved the "perfection" of my flesh that I will go to hell. I also refuse to believe that after having accepted Jesus Christ as my savior that he now needs MY help to maintain the eternality of that salvation. He did that part...my part is to become more and more like him, hence the scriptures telling me to be perfect.

But as I said we've discussed this extensively and that is good. Continue to study for yourself until you get understanding.


As to the actual thread topic itself...lol

Its good to pray for sexual compatability. I mean, no one realistically will marry someone that they are not attracted to at all! But I dont necessarily think that ommitting it from a prayer means you are denying its importance.

Everyone who thinks sex is IMPORTANT in a marriage say "aye"! ...And the "Aye's" have it! lol

 

[Crown]

That's exactly what I do, have been doing and still.....I am unclear. I'll pray, because Jesus died for the atonement for our sins, not just when we were living in sin but also for when we sin as Chrisitans. I am not in anyway shape or form encouraging willful sins, yet I don't see in the scriptures or otherwise how any man can truly be without sin, there are sins we commit unknowingly! We are commanded to awake to righteous, we are commanded to flee from sin, but I still don't see how those scriptures support the idea of perfection. We can flee from sin, we can seek after righteousness, we can be holy, and still not be perfect. That's my point, holiness, righteousness, sanctification etc. is a process, but it's not a perfect one. I don't believe any of us will reach perfection until we leave this Earth.

The purpose is Christ in you.
Christ is perfect.
The question: do you submit all the kingdoms of your heart to Christ?
In other words, do you(general) let Christ reign in you?
Deny thyself is the only way, till you can say : it's not me(my flesh), it's Christ in me(the Spirit).

 

[CelineB]

@Laela - Because I do not feel blessed. I may have a place to stay, a job, a car, a boyfriend, a family, no kids, money, food, and things that so many people would love to have.... but I do not have peace, joy, or comfort! Virtuous things of the Spirit! I know this life isn't suppose to be all peaches & cream, but having peace, joy, and comfort would help.

Poohbear,

God is not a God of confusion.
He is a God of peace, joy and love in all situations.
Please ask Him for these virtuous fruits and they will be given to you.

Maybe you are being exposed to certain issues or poeple that are stealing your joy and peace. if so, they need to be removed.

We declare peace, love and joy in your life now, we pray for you and may the blood of Jesus protect you.

In Jesus name, Amen

 

[Poohbear]

Poohbear, I know you read Alicialynn's post, but I'm going to highlight the bolded. I gather from your posts, Poohbear, that you equate being Christian with automatically being sinless. That if a Christian commits a sin, how are they really a Christian. (Correct me if I am misinterpreting your words.) It is a process towards perfection.

loolalooh - Hopefully this will explain how I feel....

I equate being a Christian with not doing sins that you KNOW are wrong and that you COMPLETELY stop any sin that has been brought to your attention as wrong.

For instance, you read in the bible that stealing is wrong. So in order to be a Christian, you do not steal.

Let's say you used to tell lies to people not knowing it was wrong until you read your bible, to be a Christian, you would no longer keep on lying after you read in the bible that bearing false witness is wrong.

Same with any other sin that you KNOW is wrong, you don't do it if you are a true Christian.

Now if it's a sin of ignorance and has been brought to your attention, you refrain from it. Like if you didn't know using profanity was wrong and you read in the bible "avoid filthy communication", you pray for forgiveness and don't use any more profane words.

That's a true Christian.... not one that keeps on doing it after they know it's wrong. Doing the same sin over and over is not struggling, that's giving in to the flesh and enjoying that sin, not walking by the Spirit.

So I am not saying you are automatically sinless when you become a Christian, but that you refrain from sin after you KNOW FOR A FACT is wrong.

Hope that makes sense.

The problem I see is that there are people calling themselves true Christians and are indulging in known sin over and over and saying they can ask for forgiveness, do the sin again, and still be forgiven over and over. That's not right. And it's not even striving for perfection as so many of you say. They say, "Oh, we are sinners saved by grace," but the Lord said not to take advantage of his grace in Romans 6.

 

[LoveisYou]

@LoveisYou

Not until coming to this forum had I ever heard any Christian say that it was possible to actually achieve perfection here on earth and that the achieving of such would determine their eternal destination. Even the ones that believed you could lose your salvation thought it was only limited to certain (visible) sins.

Not sure if you've read the other threads where we discussed this...

1. I think a lot of folks equate the recognition (that in this flesh we will never be perfect so will sin) with the passifying of sin (ie its ok to sin because we "can't help it"). The two are not the same at all.

2. I was taught this: We could NOT fulfill the law (that God gave in the Old testament), and needed a savior to fill it for us...thereby releasing us from salvation by works (earning our way to heaven by not sinning/keeping the law), and granting us salvation by grace (accepting the gift in faith that Jesus has fulfilled what we could not).

3. So all of the scriptures about perfection, and never sinning again etc. are actually encouraging us to conform our bodies to the perfection of the spirit that we have inherited. I do NOT in any way believe that these scriptures are saying that if we commit a sin (willful or unwillful) after we are saved and have not repented before we die then we go to hell. Our position, in Christ, is perfect, (becuase he traded his righteousness for our unrighteousness, guaranteeing our eternal destination) but our condition, in the flesh, must constantly be conformed/transformed. It is a war between the desires of our flesh and the spirit that we stridently fight, but knowing that we will not experience the complete victory over until the return of Jesus. And THAT does not give us liscense to sin.

This is what Ive been taught. And as @auparavant said the "big" sins are easy to point out as needing to be overcome but what about others like jealousy or gossip, or not studying or wanting vengence? I refuse to believe that if I died right now and have not achieved the "perfection" of my flesh that I will go to hell. I also refuse to believe that after having accepted Jesus Christ as my savior that he now needs MY help to maintain the eternality of that salvation. He did that part...my part is to become more and more like him, hence the scriptures telling me to be perfect.

But as I said we've discussed this extensively and that is good. Continue to study for yourself until you get understanding.


As to the actual thread topic itself...lol

Its good to pray for sexual compatability. I mean, no one realistically will marry someone that they are not attracted to at all! But I dont necessarily think that ommitting it from a prayer means you are denying its importance.

Everyone who thinks sex is IMPORTANT in a marriage say "aye"! ...And the "Aye's" have it! lol

Thanks so much for pointing that out, they are definitely NOT the same.

 

[Poohbear]

So I guess everyone is going to heaven....even if they have "spots and blemishes"...

LoveisYou

Not until coming to this forum had I ever heard any Christian say that it was possible to actually achieve perfection here on earth and that the achieving of such would determine their eternal destination. Even the ones that believed you could lose your salvation thought it was only limited to certain (visible) sins.

Not sure if you've read the other threads where we discussed this...

1. I think a lot of folks equate the recognition (that in this flesh we will never be perfect so will sin) with the passifying of sin (ie its ok to sin because we "can't help it"). The two are not the same at all.

2. I was taught this: We could NOT fulfill the law (that God gave in the Old testament), and needed a savior to fill it for us...thereby releasing us from salvation by works (earning our way to heaven by not sinning/keeping the law), and granting us salvation by grace (accepting the gift in faith that Jesus has fulfilled what we could not).

3. So all of the scriptures about perfection, and never sinning again etc. are actually encouraging us to conform our bodies to the perfection of the spirit that we have inherited. I do NOT in any way believe that these scriptures are saying that if we commit a sin (willful or unwillful) after we are saved and have not repented before we die then we go to hell. Our position, in Christ, is perfect, (becuase he traded his righteousness for our unrighteousness, guaranteeing our eternal destination) but our condition, in the flesh, must constantly be conformed/transformed. It is a war between the desires of our flesh and the spirit that we stridently fight, but knowing that we will not experience the complete victory over until the return of Jesus. And THAT does not give us liscense to sin.

This is what Ive been taught. And as auparavant said the "big" sins are easy to point out as needing to be overcome but what about others like jealousy or gossip, or not studying or wanting vengence? I refuse to believe that if I died right now and have not achieved the "perfection" of my flesh that I will go to hell. I also refuse to believe that after having accepted Jesus Christ as my savior that he now needs MY help to maintain the eternality of that salvation. He did that part...my part is to become more and more like him, hence the scriptures telling me to be perfect.

But as I said we've discussed this extensively and that is good. Continue to study for yourself until you get understanding.

 

[Poohbear]

Thanks so much for pointing that out, they are definitely NOT the same.

LoveisYou

How is it different? What she said is like a play on words...

1. I think a lot of folks equate the recognition (that in this flesh we will never be perfect so will sin) with the passifying of sin (ie its ok to sin because we "can't help it"). The two are not the same at all.

What she said above is basically saying the same thing...

If you think not, how are they different?

 

[LoveisYou]

@LoveisYou

How is it different? What she said is like a play on words...



What she said above is basically saying the same thing...

If you think not, how are they different?

A recognition that we are weak without Christ and that we need Him to overcome sin is not the same as willfully choosing to sin. We can recognize our weaknesses and shortcomings and lean on Christ because He has given us a way out of temptation, or we can choose to say woe is me, I can't help myself. Two very different choices!
I also believe that all of us, even Christians bear the consequences of our sins. We may be saved from eternal damnation (if we are truly repentant), but we will reap what we sow.

 

[CoilyFields]

I can recognize the fact that Im a great typist but if I type from now until 2013 I KNOW that I will make a mistake (some I will catch and correct and some I may not even notice). Recognizing this fact is not the same as saying my mistakes are ok, without consequences, and do not matter. Those mistakes pervert the message I am trying to get across. And in the case of CHristianity will inhibit my relationship with God.


Also, being good does not get you into heaven. A sinner can be a good person...they can also try to follow the law...but does that mean they are saved? No. Because salvation is not about how well you keep the law. And yes, the Bible does warn us against taking advantage of this grace abounding...and we shouldn't.

Are there some folks using this as an excuse? Yup. Just as there are some who believe they can lose their salvation/be perfect but are STILL doing those sins. God knows who is really striving for perfection and who is not. Shoots! We can tell when people are just trying to cover their indulgence in certain sins with a "God knows my heart" or a "dont judge me".

 

[Poohbear]

A recognition that we are weak without Christ and that we need Him to overcome sin is not the same as willfully choosing to sin. We can recognize our weaknesses and shortcomings and lean on Christ because He has given us a way out of temptation, or we can choose to say woe is me, I can't help myself. Two very different choices!
I also believe that all of us, even Christians bear the consequences of our sins. We may be saved from eternal damnation (if we are truly repentant), but we will reap what we sow.

Okay. You just said we are weak withOUT Christ... so when you sin, aren't you withOUT Christ?

Being strong in Christ would mean you make the flesh suffer and choose not to sin. Being strong in Christ means you resist that temptation or that you are persecuted for not sinning or conforming to the world. Being strong in Christ means you overcome your shortcomings, not continue in the same ones over and over. Wouldn't you think?

 

[LoveisYou]

"To grow spiritually and make the changes necessary to become holy, we need to realize that transformation is a lifelong process."

 

[Poohbear]

I can recognize the fact that Im a great typist but if I type from now until 2013 I KNOW that I will make a mistake (some I will catch and correct and some I may not even notice). Recognizing this fact is not the same as saying my mistakes are ok, without consequences, and do not matter. Those mistakes pervert the message I am trying to get across. And in the case of CHristianity will inhibit my relationship with God.


Also, being good does not get you into heaven. A sinner can be a good person...they can also try to follow the law...but does that mean they are saved? No. Because salvation is not about how well you keep the law. And yes, the Bible does warn us against taking advantage of this grace abounding...and we shouldn't.

Are there some folks using this as an excuse? Yup. Just as there are some who believe they can lose their salvation/be perfect but are STILL doing those sins. God knows who is really striving for perfection and who is not. Shoots! We can tell when people are just trying to cover their indulgence in certain sins with a "God knows my heart" or a "dont judge me".

But at the same time, being a bad Christian does not get you into heaven either....and that's what a lot of preachers are teaching that you can be this cursing, gossipping, fornicating Christian and still go to heaven. Salvation involves confession and heart-felt belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior. If you're out here being a "bad" Christian, that is not showing you are saved at all.

 

[LucieLoo12]

That's exactly what I do, have been doing and still.....I am unclear. I'll pray, because Jesus died for the atonement for our sins, not just when we were living in sin but also for when we sin as Chrisitans. I am not in anyway shape or form encouraging willful sins, yet I don't see in the scriptures or otherwise how any man can truly be without sin, there are sins we commit unknowingly! We are commanded to awake to righteous, we are commanded to flee from sin, but I still don't see how those scriptures support the idea of perfection. We can flee from sin, we can seek after righteousness, we can be holy, and still not be perfect. That's my point, holiness, righteousness, sanctification etc. is a process, but it's not a perfect one. I don't believe any of us will reach perfection until we leave this Earth.

you dont think God would show us what we are doing wrong? Like he is just going to say "They dont know, so they alright"....No the bible says the Spirit of God will lead us into ALL truths . What we dont know he will manifest it to us...

You said :"That's my point, holiness, righteousness, sanctification etc. is a process, but it's not a perfect one. I don't believe any of us will reach perfection until we leave this Earth"

Yes our process may not be perfect in the sense that we will pass everytime tests, but the outcome of our process will be perfection, if we stay the course. Perfection means to be free from flaw.

If you dont drink no more, you are perfected in that area. If you dont fornicate ,you are perfected in that area. If you dont steal, are perfected in that area. so on and so on.....So just as Christ has freed you from these areas, he will go down the list and perfect them all....

Psalms 138:8The LORD will perfect that which concerns me

I will say this again for the 10th time...all perfection is in to walk and fullfill all the commandments of God....Do you think a Christian can do this???

 

[LucieLoo12]

No one is saying it's not...look at the majority of my posts, and it says that... but it dont have to be a lifelong process


We are just saying as God shows you the sin, forsake it

"To grow spiritually and make the changes necessary to become holy, we need to realize that transformation is a lifelong process."

 

[LoveisYou]

Okay. You just said we are weak withOUT Christ... so when you sin, aren't you withOUT Christ?

Being strong in Christ would mean you make the flesh suffer and choose not to sin. Being strong in Christ means you resist that temptation or that you are persecuted for not sinning or conforming to the world. Being strong in Christ means you overcome your shortcomings, not continue in the same ones over and over. Wouldn't you think?

Being strong in Christ also comes with the recognition for spiritual renewal in Christ. It means we commit ourselves to the ongoing process of being transformed and renewed. It means that we Christians submit ourselves to Christ by constantly changing old attitudes and developing new ways of thinking. It means we continue to grow spiritually and are cleansed by God's word as we study, meditate upon it and follow its precepts.

It doesn't mean we are perfect and will not sin,it doesn't mean we are immediately transformed. We are first babes in Christ and through true submission we grow, we are transformed. We constantly need him, it's not like we reach a point of perfection where we can announce ok, I'm perfect now.

It also doesn't mean we choose to sin willfully. For example, a Christian single woman will reap the consequences of having premarital sex. She basically opens a door in her life for the devil to have a foothold. She will reap the consequences of choosing a man over God, she risks potential separation from God if she continues in her sin, she also could risk becoming a reprobate.